Spore Mines and Dawn of War

[Cruor Vault]

After re-reading the orbital deployment rules for Spore Mine Clusters it occurred to me that Spore Mines are great area denial weapons in games that prevent you from deploying within a certain distance of enemy units.

Dawn of War is a great example. If the Tyranid player takes 3 small squads of Spore Mines and places them equidistantly across the opposing players deployment zone. The other player could be prevented from deploying anything at all.

While thats not an tremendously useful tactic in most games, I could see that being very abusive in a tournament scenario where a minimum distance from the enemy is required.

[Drakkan Vael]

I would not consider that abusive as you pay 90 points for this, and have to take the mines in all tournament scenarios. And that would mean playing with 90 points less than you opponents (they'll avoid the mines, then shoot them down).

[Blaznak]

I also don't think this is abusive. However, as written, this seems to be a very effective tactic for denying set up areas. It may mess with scouts, etc. and other weird set ups that have to be X"+ away at set up. Have to think about this one!

[rle68]

Are spore mines troops choices?!?!?!?!?! if they are not then it doesnt matter they cant deploy at setup
not in DOW 2 troops and an HQ

[proximity]

Are spore mines troops choices?!?!?!?!?! if they are not then it doesnt matter they cant deploy at setup
not in DOW 2 troops and an HQ

They're fast attack, but get to set up anyway, the only option they EVER have to deploy is via deepstrike but before any units have been deployed.

[Duke]

Yes this could be abusive... But as we saw nottio long ago some people simply choose to not deploy in dawn of war and so this would be a waste of 90pts, especially against mech units. The armies that I could see it affecting would be gunline guard and the like. This tactic could be rough on someone like that who can put down 100 guys in two troops and an hq.

[Mortifis]

By rules as written, Spore Mines can create a "no go zone" for the enemy only if the Tyranid player deploys first.


The player that goes first then chooses one of the long table edges to be his own table edge. He then can deploy up to two units from his Troops selections and up to one unit from his HQ selections in his half of the table (this is his 'deployment zone'). His opponent then does the same in the opposite half, but must position his three units more than 18" from the enemy units.

Tyranids choose or are given the first turn. They pick their table edge. Then the Spore Mines are thrown down. Then he deploys up to two units of troops, and up to one unit of HQ. The opponent then deploys, but must stay more than 18" away from any enemy units, including the spores.

Opponent chooses or is given the first turn. There is no restrictions on deploying within range of enemy units, and so can be anywhere in his deployment zone. Not that you may deploy within 1" of the Spore Mines if you so choose, but they will explode all over you if they are touching you when the game starts, or are within 2" at the end of any movement phase.



Also note that in Spearhead deployment, as per direct RAW (no faq addressing this... yet):

Regarding the player going first,
He then deploys his force in one of the two table quarters on his side of the table, more than 12" away from the centre of the table (this is his 'deployment zone'). His opponent then deploys in the opposite quarter.
By this, the player deploying second can be anywhere in that table quarter, regardless of proximity to the table centre...

[Drakkan Vael]

By rules as written, Spore Mines can create a "no go zone" for the enemy only if the Tyranid player deploys first.



Tyranids choose or are given the first turn. They pick their table edge. Then the Spore Mines are thrown down. Then he deploys up to two units of troops, and up to one unit of HQ. The opponent then deploys, but must stay more than 18" away from any enemy units, including the spores.

Opponent chooses or is given the first turn. There is no restrictions on deploying within range of enemy units, and so can be anywhere in his deployment zone. Not that you may deploy within 1" of the Spore Mines if you so choose, but they will explode all over you if they are touching you when the game starts, or are within 2" at the end of any movement phase.



Also note that in Spearhead deployment, as per direct RAW (no faq addressing this... yet):

Regarding the player going first,
By this, the player deploying second can be anywhere in that table quarter, regardless of proximity to the table centre...

Not correct.
By rules as written, the spore mines are deployed before ANY models are placed. There is no distinction between Tyranid-player and opponent.

Regarding spearhead deployment: look at the picture. The white area 12" from the table center. In ALL directions.
Has nothing to do with the spore mines though.

And the mines hamper scouts and infiltrators in all scenarios.

[Mortifis]

Not correct.
By rules as written, the spore mines are deployed before ANY models are placed. There is no distinction between Tyranid-player and opponent.
I don't recall disputing this fact at all :confused:

All I was saying is that the "not within 18 inches" for Dawn of War only applies to whoever deploys second. If you throw down the Spore Mines, and your opponent then deploys, there is nothing to stop him deploying his Troops within 18" of the Spores. If they infiltrate, then yes, obviously the Spores will affect them.

[gcsmith]

No it will affect him. It refers to second as NORMALLY it only affects second, however, otherwise the mines would still just be forced to magically move 18 inches away from anything the 1st person sets up

[Mortifis]

No it will affect him. It refers to second as NORMALLY it only affects second, however, otherwise the mines would still just be forced to magically move 18 inches away from anything the 1st person sets up

I'm sorry, what? :confused:

We're playing Dawn of War, so the following things happen:

** We roll off for first turn.

** I give you the first turn

** I deploy my Spore Mines via Orbital Deployment.

** You deploy your 2 Troops/1 HQ as you so choose following the rules printed in the book. This can be anywhere on your half of the table.

** I deploy my 2 Troops/1 HQ anywhere in my half of the table, that is more than 18" away from your stuff.



See what I'm getting at here?

[Lerra]

Mortifis is right on that one. The 18" restriction only applies to the player going second.

I found another possible issue with RAW in Dawn of War, from the DoW entry in the BRB, p.93:

"Troops and HQ units that can infiltrate, can do so, as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table."

Does this mean that a player with Spore Mines may not infiltrate in DoW?

[AbusePuppy]

Since Spore Mines are incapable of infiltration anyways, I don't think it's a real problem.

They have a specific deployment rule that, like Chaos Daemons, overrides most of the usual ones. Since they are neither Troops nor HQ, they do not otherwise affect how you deploy in Dawn of War.

[Drakkan Vael]

Mortifis is right on that one. The 18" restriction only applies to the player going second.

I found another possible issue with RAW in Dawn of War, from the DoW entry in the BRB, p.93:

"Troops and HQ units that can infiltrate, can do so, as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table."

Does this mean that a player with Spore Mines may not infiltrate in DoW?


Maybe.
Two thoughts on that:
From what should the first player keep 18" before the coming of the sporemine cluster rules? As this is the first unit that might be deployed before anything else, the rules in the rulebook do not enclose this possibility.

So the question is, is keeping 18" away from the enemy an integral part of the deployment in the dawn of war variant? Should it not be used on both players?

I think so. But it is just my guess and after reading a lot of posts in different threads, I am happy that I don't have to play against most of the rules lawyers that post around here.

The rules for the spore mines are neither overly powerful nor do the work especially nasty. It is one small tactic bit that might be used fully in only one deployment variant.
Why not - for the fun of it - let them do it?

Keep in mind, this is still a game that is supposed to be fun.

[Ferro]

I'm inclined to think that the Spore Mines being a Fast Attack choice overrides their depoyment rules. Ie they cannot deploy using Orbital Deployment in a DoW mission, simply because they're Fast Attack and cannot be on the table yet. In this case, I'd bump them into regular reserves, and try to drop them on the bad guys later in game.

Still, it's a toss-up to me. I could see GW going either way on this one.

[Fizyx]

They have the Orbital Bombardment special rule in the codex and codex > BRB.