morale and morale

[Horus Himself]

So here is the thing,

A unit is tank shocked during the movement phase. it loses the ld and is falling back. thats during the movement phase. in the shooting phase the unit is shot losing 25% of its strenght. That calls for another ld at the end of the shooting phase. So that leaves me with the question, a unit that falls back in the movement phase should check ld again in the shooting phase to fall back again? Is it considered a falling back unit so no more morale or its ok to test again and move another 2d6 back??

[Charon]

Its already falling back, so no further "fall back" tests

[Wolfshade]

I thought it would? Or does it need to rally first? So say when assaulted?

[Charon]

Ok.. I take it back and state the opposite...
There is nothing in the rules that prevents you from falling back more than once.
You also automatically fail your morale test to do so. Texts impying this is possible "the only moves they can make in subsequent phases are Fall Back moves"

[Wolfshade]

So if you set it up correctly you could force 3 fall backs? ~21" could push a unit from the deployment zone off the board.

[Charon]

Found nothing which contradicts this... but its probably quite hard to pull off.

[Wolfshade]

Yes, actually with the psychic phases now there might be opportunity for a 4th.

But yes I imagine it would be difficult to pull off.

[Denzark]

Is it not 1 test per phase?

[John Bower]

Is it not 1 test per phase?

If a unit loses 25% of its models in any phase it makes a morale check, if it fails it falls back; in subsequent phases it 'must' make fall back moves, it can only attempt to rally in its player's turn; so no you can't really force it off the table as once its taken a fall back test its already falling back. Until it (if it does) re-groups then it can fail another morale check. You could in subsequent phases reduce it to the point where it pretty much can't rally (only on double 1's) but can't force anymore morale checks as far as I am aware.

[Charon]

Quote me the exact rule please.
The rule say that the unit automatically fails every morale check (except rally) and is immune to pinning.
It also says that its only allowed fallback moves in subsequent phases. There is also no rule that a unit that is already falling back is immune to further fall back tests (no exceptions in the list when the unit has to take a test).
That implies that a unit can fall back more otften than once a turn.
Technically you could tankshock it, then cause 25% casualties in the psi phase (causing the unit to fail the fall back test automatically) and another 25% in the shooting phase for 3 full foll back moves in a single turn.
You could also charge them, but then they can do a rally test.

[DarkLink]

It worked like that in 6th, where you could make a unit fall back basically once per phase as long as you forced a morale check in that phase somehow.

[Charistoph]

If a unit loses 25% of its models in any phase it makes a morale check...

I should just point out that this does not include the Assault Phase. There are other reasons for Falling Back, and winning a Combat is not one of them. You blow up a Vehicle in melee, and it kills 25% of your team, no Morale Check.

[John Bower]

I should just point out that this does not include the Assault Phase. There are other reasons for Falling Back, and winning a Combat is not one of them. You blow up a Vehicle in melee, and it kills 25% of your team, no Morale Check.

Okay, okay; I know, I just didn't say it because typically I knew what I meant. Anyway point taken, there's no rule against further checks so technically g'night unit. As said though, I think it would be incredibly hard to pull off. easier to outright blow them to heck than force another morale test. Very hard to make most units fail; try it on Necrons and see how far you get. :)

[daboarder]

you fall back every time you are called upon to do so.

Furthermore, once you have failed that first morale test, then you fail all other.

This is why tank shock was so devastating in 5th, because the opponent couldnt rally if the tank was in 6th, so you could have a rhino sheperding your unit off the table over 2 turns.

[Charistoph]

Okay, okay; I know, I just didn't say it because typically I knew what I meant. Anyway point taken, there's no rule against further checks so technically g'night unit. As said though, I think it would be incredibly hard to pull off. easier to outright blow them to heck than force another morale test. Very hard to make most units fail; try it on Necrons and see how far you get. :)

I wasn't trying to be judgemental, just pointing it out because someone did misread or misremember that rule at my LGS and had a TDA unit run after they Fisted and Bombed a Hellbrute and he Saved poorly. Someone observed that they still had to do a Morale Check because they lost 25%.

[John Bower]

No worries; I didn't take any offence anyway; was just saying that typically I knew what it meant so forgot to mention it. :)