Cinema, Film, Remakes - Coming of age?

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Just a very quick one....

Recently, Hollywood has been given a lot of flak for the number of remakes and reboots they're attempting. Many see this as the death of Hollywood as a creative entity.

And yet....Theatre has been doing this very thing for centuries, if not millenia (I'm rubbish at history, but Greek plays and that) and nobody has batted an eyelid. You don't hear people complaining about yet another remounting of The Scottish Play. Nobody complains when Romeo and Juliet is adapted to modernise the tale.

So why is cinema catching all this flak? Are remakes not ultimately inescapable? Take the recent Robocop. Whilst not as entertaining as the original, it remains in itself a decent film. They've taken the core story of Robocop, and remounted the tale for an age of entirely modern paranoia about drones, and personal freedom of choice.

[Wolfshade]

Theatre is a slightly different media.

If I watch two different companies put on the same play then it is a slightly different adaptation, John Lithgow as Malvolio was the most brilliant portrayl of the character, and despite saying the same words as others it is slightly different.

However, if I want to watch "the original" X, then I can just stream it or pop in the relevant VHS/DVD/Bluray and away we go. Which you cannot do with theatre.

The other observation is that Shakespear and other fables/mythos/faery tales have become part of our cultural heritage and so using them is the same as using any idiom.

There was once a chap (I forgot whom) who said that there are only 7 (IIRC) story lines so of course they are to be rehashed.

The issue is where the remake is either a clone of the original story, or is worse, which unfortunately is often the case.

Consider Total Recall, the original Schwartze****** film was an action/adventure yarn of its time it was entertaining with some good effects for its age. The story was entertaining (albiet a little silly) and the pacing kept well, the score was fantastic. The more recent Colin Farrell one replaced the red palette with a blue one and had a more believable lead (Arnie doesn't pass as being a normal every day guy), it has better effects, but the story is much less memorable, aside from the flying car car chase scene it is quite bland. So given that it starts with a solid idea it should learn and improve from the old one.

Though they are not all bad Casino Royal with Daniel Craig is far superior to that thing that was released back in the 60s(?)

[energongoodie]

I don't mind a remake :)
They just aren't always good, but not every movie is.

I'm looking forward to the Mad Max movie with Tom Hardy.
Some buddies are on Tarzan right now. Not that bothered about that one though.
The Star Trek reboots were awesome! etc

I'll try and think of more :)

p.s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Basic_Plots

[daboarder]

I'm looking forward to the Mad Max movie with Tom Hardy.

Thats not a remake though, its a genuine new chapter in the story.

In fact its been in development for 10-15 years, one of the major problems was the location to film in, see Australia has just gone through our long term wet period so the foliage is green (brown really) compared to what it normally is (dead). as such they ended up deciding to film in Namibia unfortunately.

and the second star trek film was so phoned in, that they actually phone spock to figure out how to beat kharn.....ewwww

[Mr Mystery]

Yeah. Into Darkness wasn't that great, especially compared to how brave they were with the first in the reboot series.

[Kirsten]

I thoroughly enjoyed Into Darkness.

Last night I watched the new Robocop and I thought it was excellent, really enjoyed it. I have no issue with reboots, and no issue with things being changed, nothing wrong with trying new stuff around the main subject. Robocop covers all the main points from the original film, with better effects, an up to date storyline, great actors, so what if he looks a bit different?

[energongoodie]

Thanks for the mad max info :)

I loved into darkness...alot!

I wanted to get on board with robocop but i couldn't :( I missed the ultra violence of the original.

[Wildeybeast]

When a theatre puts on new version of a play, the director and actors always try to do something different with the performance to get people to view it in new way. This is fine. When a remake/reboot puts a new spin on things, this is also fine. When the film is pretty much a shot for shot copy, made simply because the original was not in English/over 10 years old/people like money, this is not fine. It's existence is based solely on financial motivation and so it is not art.

[DarkLink]

I could care less if it is "art". If it was entertaining, which I found Into Darkness to be, that's all I really care about.

[Wolfshade]

When a theatre puts on new version of a play, the director and actors always try to do something different with the performance to get people to view it in new way. This is fine. When a remake/reboot puts a new spin on things, this is also fine. When the film is pretty much a shot for shot copy, made simply because the original was not in English/over 10 years old/people like money, this is not fine. It's existence is based solely on financial motivation and so it is not art.


This is it exactly.

[Mr Mystery]

Yet there's numerous examples of a pure remounting of a play by different companies. No change to story or setting, yet still considered art.

I totally agree though. Give me a reimagining over a remake any day (BSG is a good example of this working. Take the core, and build fresh)

[Psychosplodge]

I can't think of a remake that's an improvement over the original.
Look at the state of the total recall, italian job, or Alfie as opposed to the original.

Now a a re-imagining of the a series like they did with BSG that has worked.

On the Bond front though I think they've ruined the entire franchise by trying to make it more like a Bourne film than a Bond film.

[Wolfshade]

Let the right one in (Låt den Rätte Komma In) and Let Me In are both very good, though there are only 2 years between them.

Invasion of the Body Snatchers , Fly, Ocean's 11,

[Mr Mystery]

The Thing - Kurt Russell version. Fantastic remake, though also arguably more of a reimagining than a straight remake.

[Psychosplodge]

Let the right one in (Låt den Rätte Komma In) and Let Me In are both very good, though there are only 2 years between them.

Invasion of the Body Snatchers , Fly, Ocean's 11,

Not seen the original ocean's 11, not seen the fly at all, only seen one Invasion of the body snatchers, dunno which one.


The Thing - Kurt Russell version. Fantastic remake, though also arguably more of a reimagining than a straight remake.

Not seen the original.

[Wolfshade]

Isn't Tue Lies and Fatal Attraction both remakes?

[Psychosplodge]

Dunno, though if True lies is I'll allow some work because I love that film :D

[Wolfshade]

I imagine the new True Grit is better than the John Wayne version.

I do love Wayne Westerns but some of them are more hammy than pig

[energongoodie]

Give me a reimagining over a remake any day (BSG is a good example of this working. Take the core, and build fresh)

I think I'm failing to see the distinction between a remake and a re-imagining. All films reflect the time at which they are made and a are different to theoriginals.
So a remake does take the core and build fresh around it.

It's always gonna be a new directors choices and a production designers imagination.

p.s new BSG was chuffing awesome!

[daboarder]

I imagine the new True Grit is better than the John Wayne version.

I do love Wayne Westerns but some of them are more hammy than pig

its not better, its just more loyal to the original book. They are both great westerns though

[Psychosplodge]

I think I'm failing to see the distinction between a remake and a re-imagining. All films reflect the time at which they are made and a are different to theoriginals.
So a remake does take the core and build fresh around it.

It's always gonna be a new directors choices and a production designers imagination.

p.s new BSG was chuffing awesome!

Well they way I see it is for the BSG example they've completely changed the program, it's now a human drama set in a war of extermination as opposed to the original where I seem to remember more combat and less drama.

A remake might have just done the original episodes with new actors and technology but essentially the identical thing.

[Mr Mystery]

Well they way I see it is for the BSG example they've completely changed the program, it's now a human drama set in a war of extermination as opposed to the original where I seem to remember more combat and less drama.

A remake might have just done the original episodes with new actors and technology but essentially the identical thing.

Yup and for instance, Robocop (2014) follows much the same vein. Rather than a hyper-violent, CGI laden gorefest attempting to upstage the original in shock factor, they've taken the bare bones and the odd bit of meat from the original, and transplanted it into a modern setting, and explore new paranoias that have emerged since the original was made.

Note the corporate side of Robocop 2014 is far more downplayed, and instead the plot focuses on the concept of freedom of choice, and how much we actually have.

[energongoodie]

Yup and for instance, Robocop (2014) follows much the same vein. Rather than a hyper-violent, CGI laden gorefest attempting to upstage the original in shock factor, they've taken the bare bones and the odd bit of meat from the original, and transplanted it into a modern setting, and explore new paranoias that have emerged since the original was made.

Note the corporate side of Robocop 2014 is far more downplayed, and instead the plot focuses on the concept of freedom of choice, and how much we actually have.

Cool :)
If we take this as correct, then the creative and collaborative nature of film/T.V and the way in which they reflect the society in which they were created, means they should always be sufficiently different from the original to constitute your label of a 're-imagining'

I put forward that it is impossible to have a 'remake'. Their can only ever be a 're-imagining'.

I'm o.k with that :)

[Mr Mystery]

Yeah, pretty much.

There have been outright remakes though. Psycho was redone exactly shot-for-shot, which lead to lots of people scratching their heads and asking 'well, why don't I just go see the original?'

[energongoodie]

I didn't know that. A shot for shot remake is absolutely pointless :/
Why waste the time and money?

[Wolfshade]

I saw the original with a live orchestra, which was awesome.

[daboarder]

Note the corporate side of Robocop 2014 is far more downplayed, and instead the plot focuses on the concept of freedom of choice, and how much we actually have.

Honestly, we could do with more corporate fiction like the old robocop. Maybe then people would pay more attention

Monsanto, bayer, theTTP or causing the GFC anyone?

[Wolfshade]

Monsanto, bayer, theTTP or causing the GFC anyone?
?

[Mr Mystery]

GFC = Great Financial Crash, I'm guessing.

And dude has a point. The more we dig here in Britain, the worse it gets. Have a look into LIBOR....

[daboarder]

yeah I'm talking about some of the most well known actions by companies and how they are basically behaving like the old "corporate government" stereotype we see in old films and literature.

Its not just paranoia anymore, there really is a push by the corporate world to turn us into an oligarchy.

they've always had more practical rights than individuals (I mean their actions might be illegal but whose going to foot the bill to take them to court?) and frankly, governmental responses to these actions in the last decade has only managed to convince various companies that they can largely do what they want with little to no oversight and no repercussions,

[Circuitofchameleon]

Hi everyone, not sure if this is the relevant thread but I would really appreciate your opinions on a topic I am currently studying for my A-Level film studies course: to what extent do you believe film remakes reflect the current political climate of the time in which they were made? Any responses would be highly appreciated and any examples would be great to. An example I already have would be the 2012 remake of the movie "Red Dawn" as in the original the "enemy" was the communists whilst in the remake the enemy was North Korea