none competitive annoying chaos list 1500pts

[James Q]

So I thought this list would be a fun list to use, it might annoy some people but I dont play seriously enough to play a competitive list.

So here we go....

HQ
Chaos lord in termie armour, combi bolter, power fist, sigil of corruption. MoN
Daemon prince, power armour, wings, MoN psyker lv1 burning brand.

troops
Plague marines x 7, champ, plasma gun (x1)
As above
As above

Fast attack
3x Hell turkeys with bale flamer.

[Katharon]

Annoying? Talk about useless. No one is going to play against your three hell turkeys -- though admittedly they might be happy to do so considering the FAQ that fixed their firing arc forward. Even then, it's not a fun list to play against.

[Mad Cat]

Drop one turkey. They are above average now but by no menas broken anymore. Then get 3 rhinos and extra plasma guns in the squads. Probably will need some melta in there too so either take combimeltas on rhinos, sargeants or trade in the plasmas from one squad.

Alternatively take one rhino for a melta armed squad and then put the Lord on a bike and pad out him with several MoN spawn as a retinue.

[Caitsidhe]

Annoying? Talk about useless. No one is going to play against your three hell turkeys -- though admittedly they might be happy to do so considering the FAQ that fixed their firing arc forward. Even then, it's not a fun list to play against.

I saw three Helldrake lists regularly before 7th and now they are pretty much standard.

[Harley]

Mad Cat is right. Drop a Helldrake, take Rhinos, make one squad into tank hunters with Melta.

What happens if only one Heldrake comes on the board until turn 3? Walking Marines will get mowed down by Battle Canons etc.

[Caitsidhe]

Moreover, I was always a fan of the Skyshield before due to the options it provided me. Now in 7th Edition a mere 5pt upgrade allows me to start a Helldrake on the table. Will I always do it? No. But if I'm going first and my opponent has some nice soft targets for the Baleflamer, I sure as hell will. Nothing is more pleasing than:

Going first with one of your Helldrakes on the table and able to go barbecue the troops sitting on the Quad Gun (or other appropriate AA). Against Horde armies, particularly the new Orcs, being able to start a Helldrake on the table is extremely useful.

Nothing has changed from 6th to 7th Edition in regards to this being the era of the gun. Armies that have to foot slog across the battlefield are generally DOA. Nothing sucks for a CSM player more than running up against ANOTHER CSM player. :D Our Terminators are fairly poor so we don't field them short of three-man drop and pop Termicide units. That means we field a lot of Power Armor and opposing Helldrakes vaporize that stuff on contact outside a vehicle.

Options are essential for play wherein you don't know what you are going to be facing. Certain units cover a wider range of targets. Helldrakes are almost useless against Terminator spam, for example, but so effective against everything else that it is hard to leave them at home. Only rarely will you ever see me field less than two. With the changes in the Quad Gun, the Skyshield is far more appealing than the Aegis line to me these days. My Winged Nurgle Daemon Princes no longer need the guaranteed cover at the start of the game, and the Skyshield will give them an Invulnerable save one better than normal. Combine that with the cheap option to start a Helldrake on the table, and it becomes almost an auto-include.

Remember that for a CSM player, the Skyshield is the BEST (hands down) assault vehicle in the game. I know that sounds strange, but it is absolutely true. A Skyshield can start at the very edge of your half of the table, i.e. 24" in in standard deployment. CMS can guarantee themselves Infiltrate and thus start Troops up there too. Consider the fact that Jump Troops are STILL Infantry and you have a serious threat. You can infiltrate Jump Troops on to that Skyshield and move 12" further in on your first turn, and if you didn't go 1st, then assault. Either way, you move further and faster than anyone in any other vehicle.

[Harley]

stuff

Good post. Also a Void Shield can operate the same way. Effectively a armor 12 assault vehicle. New FAQ really threw Void Shield a bone.

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm not sure everyone would agree that Jump Infantry qualify as Infantry for the purposes of Master of Deception. They have a separate unit type in both name and rules section.

But I too am a fan of the Skyshield, mainly just as good firebase because of the invul save.

[John Bower]

this may be a daft question but.. Can Helturkeys hover then?

[Caitsidhe]

this may be a daft question but.. Can Helturkeys hover then?

Yes. They are quite good in Hover mode.

[Caitsidhe]

I'm not sure everyone would agree that Jump Infantry qualify as Infantry for the purposes of Master of Deception. They have a separate unit type in both name and rules section.

If you go to that section you will find that Jump is an addition to an existing unit type, not a type by itself. The rules are very specific. "Unlike most other unit type categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry."

This means, therefore, that Jump Infantry get the benefit of any perk allowed to Infantry, including being able to Infiltrate because of it.

[Lord Krungharr]

WoW, it appears you are correct, that's freakin' awesome! Raptors might actually have a purpose now :) Especially with a Burning Brand HQ in there.

More cool for me (since I have no Raptors right now), Flamers of Tzeentch have a super chance of doing some quality damage again. Infiltrate them up there, they can hop up 12" to the gunlines and unload 9 flamer templates, against which carapace and much Xenos armor and Aegis walls do not a darn thing.

[daboarder]

not really, you need to roll a 2 to infiltrate an IC and a squad together. and you aren't allowed to assault T1 anyway