So all daemons of nurgle get a shooting attack now?

[Xaric]

Due to they have Defensive Grenades in 7th edition get a 8" strength 1 blast with blind? so does that mean my daemon lord of nurgle can use his vomit and a Defensive Grenade? also does this apply to MC's such as daemon prince?

[vharing]

They dont actually have defensive grenades in their war gear. I think they only benefit from the taking one attack away from the unit charging them

[Lord Krungharr]

Page 26 of the Daemons Codex under Daemon of Nurgle says units entirely composed of Daemons of Nurgle are treated as having Defensive Grenades. How does that not count as Defensive Grenades and all their current BRB effects? Where does it say it has to be under Wargear to have all the effects of Defensive Grenades? Furthermore, on page 104 in the summary of special rules under Daemon of Nurlge, it just flat out says Defensive Grenades.

So yes, Swoop up 3 Daemon Princes of Nurgle and fling the poop on the Tau! Somebody's gonna get blinded.

[vharing]

Anything that can throw actual grenades in the game, has those grenades in there wargear listing. I think this is a case of rules as written vs. rules as intended. I try not to look for loopholes, so thinking that any nurgle demon can throw grenades never crossed my mind.

Edit: Send an email the Gw FAQ department. Got a email back saying they dont answer single emails, but will address it later in a later faq. So we should hear there answer in a month or six.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I'd agree with OP's interpretation of the rules. Plus, fluffwise, it represents the swarms of plagueflies flying into the eyes and mouths of the enemy troops.

[jonas the jedi]

No it count as having, not has. [Redacted]

[marful]

No it count as having, not has.
[Redacted]

[Charon]

And where is the difference?
Does "counts as" entitle you to choose a rule you like and keep it while you disallow the one you dont like? Why are you trying to open loopholes?

[Wolfshade]

You may disagree with people, that is fine. But resorting to insults isn't. It doesn't help win the arguement all it does is make consensus less likely as you have already got someone's back up.

I suggest you read: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_bolsrules especially point 6.

Now carry on.

[daboarder]

plus "counts as" means use ALL THE RULES for....

the OP is right, daemons of nurgle may throw their fly clouds

[Theik]

I checked the FAQ for deamons and nowhere does it say that Nurgle demons are not allowed to throw their "counts as having defensive grenades".
You can argue all you want, but "counts as having defensive grenades" means "treat this model exactly as if they had defensive grenades", for all purposes.

[Archon Charybdis]

You can argue all you want, but "counts as having defensive grenades" means "treat this model exactly as if they had defensive grenades", for all purposes.

Agreed, if they didn't want Daemons of Nurgle to count as having the full benefits of defensive grenades, it would have said so. It's just as easy to write "Models charging a Daemon of Nurgle don't gain the bonus attack." Also, the argument being put forward would mean models with defensive grenades in their wargear wouldn't count as having defensive grenades--that's just silly.

[This Dave]

Defensive Grenades also give a cover bonus against units shooting at them within 8" IIRC.

[DarkLink]

No, they don't. That was 6th edition.

[Allen Broussard]

yes, defensive grenades used to grant shrouded to a unit if somthing within 8" shot at it.

This is no longer the case.

Now defensive grenades do the following:

no bonus attacks for charge.

1 model can throw a blind blast in the shooting phase.

in melee the opposing unit has to take a blind test at the start of combat.

[The Herald of Corrosion]

So Daemons of Nurgle got the best of both worlds? Shrouded and the "Suck It, Khorne" effects of the new ones?

[Lord Krungharr]

Khorne has decent Initiative so they won't all go Blind. Tau on the other hand, they'll need a cane and brail on their Signature Systems.

[Allen Broussard]

Ehh, tau can have blacksun filters which make them immune to blind and night fight.

[Xaric]

beast of nurgle, nurglings will be more better now nurglings now bumped up to a scoring unit also with a shooting attack and beast of nurgle being hard to kill with a shooting attack also there a unit of one.

[Dr. John Hemlock]

Yeah, Nurgle lost the 8" stealth that defensive grenades granted but gained being able to throw the blindness around. Pretty sweet. Too bad my Nurgle daemon princes will be jinking 99% of the time and won't be able to throw the darn grenades anyway...

[Xaric]

You know what I am going to start doing if people keep proclaiming made up rules such as "you cant use it because its not in your wargear" even if there a rule said I have it or count as having it. I am going to play fire with fire "you can't use your guns because your wargear does not have ammo clarity in it" after all there are rules for specialised ammo is there not and this is listed in wargear is it not?

I understand I did not make the rules nor do I fully understand the wording of some rules because some can be cryptic but what annoys me more then anything is people making a judgement call on rules proclaiming they exist when there is no wording in the rule with a restriction.

Sorry about bring this topic back up its just I still keep getting people telling me stuff that is really hindering my games this and this.

"you cant use your icon it must be on the field for 1 turn" where the hell does it say this in any book for icon of chaos on page 64 daemon codex there is no restriction to when it actives other then it must be on the table if the first unit with this is deployed out of deepstrike using the normal 2d6 scatter then all units that come out of deepstrike on that same turn may use the effect of the banner and not scatter because it works in conjunction with the instrument of chaos when that model makes a successful reserve roll the following unit in deep strike reserves does not need to roll.

sometimes it makes me so angry...

[CoffeeGrunt]

It seems you were transcribing a lengthy rant here and only wrote down the middle part of it into this thread. Rather than starting with how defiant you'll be if people disagree with you, just say the rules you want clarified, how you interpret them, await responses, and take 'em or leave 'em at your leisure.

What's the problem?

[Xaric]

The problem is more on the factor we have a rule with requirement's in the text of the rule books but people proclaiming additional rules that are not in the book in the entry with no direction to where it said these so called additional rules they are saying for example as I said telling a player that the icon of chaos must be on the table for 1 hole turn before it becomes active wile the ruling does not state no such thing.

The same applies to defensive grenades on the daemon of nurgle all daemons of nurgle are counted as having defensive grenades with people saying they cant have the full rule because it is not located in the war gear of every nurgle unit entry and I looked in the big rule book and cant find any evidence that a model MUST have the object in its war gear entry if a rule declares a model as counting as having the equipment.

[Lord Krungharr]

Fear not, I reiterate that on page 104 of the daemons codex under the special rules for the Daemons of....in the nurgle part it plainly states 'defensive grenades' without any treated as or counts as, even though those latter additional words will be treated by any sensible person as the same damn thing. It frustrates me too when plainly obvious rules get twisted so far out of line.

[thanoson]

beast of nurgle, nurglings will be more better now nurglings now bumped up to a scoring unit also with a shooting attack and beast of nurgle being hard to kill with a shooting attack also there a unit of one.

I thought if you didn't have a stat, you can't do range attacks?

[Xaric]

sorry page 32 saids beast of nurgle cant but Nurglings are BS 3 so they can poop fling all they want :D