How to grey knight in 7th

[Halollet]

If you haven't seen it yet the FAQ for the grey knights really changed them. A lot. And from my first impressions really made them bland.

All of the unique powers, hallocaust, warp quake, are now gone completely. All that's left are some utility powers. Except for the grandmaster that can now take anything.

So are the new gks just space marines with power weapons and a crap load of psyker dice?

What are your thoughts on all this?

[Harley]

They are sill the only army which can reliably use Santic powers which are actually very good. My thoughts are to take both a GM ml2 and Libby ml3 to get as many rolls as possible on the table. Also ally in Cotaez and another Inq to try and get invisibility.
Points to keep in mind:
-Brain mines work against Imperial Knights and other big baddies like Lords of War, you can fit a bunch into a squad.
-Crusaders have a 2++ with stormshields and Sanctuary.
-Storm ravens can auto perils daemon princes and ruin their rday.
-Even rhinos provide warp dice and iirc can cast sanctuary which will force daemons to innit 1 when assaulting through.
-an invisible Dreadknight or land raider is pretty darn scary.

[DarkLink]

They still have unique powers. Like Harley said, they're the only ones who will actually probably ever use Santic powers. Cleansing Flame is extremely good, and GKs can provide the warp charges to back it up. Draigo and the other Grand Masters make for a better psyker than basically any other Marine option with the exception of Tigirius, with access to extremely good powers.

They're also Battle Bros with the Imperium now. That's huge. I would auto-include Tigirius or a DA Librarian with a power field generator for a 4+ or certain psychic powers (Tigirius has a 75% chance of getting any given random power, so go for Invisibility or something, or imagine multiple Land Raiders full of Paladins with a 3++ invuln).

Land Raiders got pretty good with the tougher vehicle rules. Take a Land Raider Crusader full of Paladins and go smash things. Take lots of power armor guys to run around and storm bolter/psycannon stuff. Throw in a bit of long ranged firepower and/or allies.

You'll still run into the same basic issue of being expensive Marines. Eldar and Tau will tend to still just shoot you off the table (Land Raiders will help a lot there, only the Wraithknight can hurt it).

The major local tournaments in my area have started using a comp system, which is kinda stupid though it could be a lot worse than what they've introduced, so my personal lists aren't quite written to fully take advantage of 7th, but I'm going to the BAO so I'll have to think up the nastiest list I can.

On a side note, I've stripped and begun repainting the majority of my army, since it was in varying stages of painting over many years of evolving skill level and a recently acquired airbrush:

[Maelstorm]

@Darklink - I look forward to seeing your Grey Knight crew in shiny silver - and right side up! :)

[Harley]

I am impressed though that he magnetized them ALL though :)

Personally I am not sold on Paladins. What is going to kill your GK Termies is going to instant death them whether they are Paly's or not and ignore the FnP if you upgraded for it. For that reason the cost isn't justifiable to me. Sure, they are more survivable against mass small arms fire, but if your Termies are taking tons of shots then your Landraider is already dead, you're assault has failed and you are screwed anyways. I would rather spend the extra points on cheesey grenades, brain mines, psyker upgrades and other options. Also the new FAQ states Pallys and Termies have the same psychic powers.

True fact, a fully upgrades group of regular GK Termies will beat a less equipped squad of Paladins of equal points.

For 725 points you get:
-GM with all the grenades, Empyrean Brain Mine, ML2, a sword (3++ in CC) and an Incinerator
-Libby, Empyrean Brain Mine, ML3, halberd and storm bolter
-5 Termies, 1 Bro Banner, 1 Psycannon, 3 Halberds, 1 Daemonhammer, 4 Storm Bolters
This squad has 5 powers plus Banishment and Hammerhand on the Termy squad means you will be fully buffed all the time, killing everything from Daemon Princes to Knights. Good chance of getting Sanctuary for 3++ on the GM and 4++ on the rest of the squad.

710 points of Paladins nets you:
-Draigo
-5 Paladins, 1 Bro Banner, Feel no Pain, 2 Psycannons, 3 Halberds, 1 Daemonhammer, 2 Storm Bolters
This squad has 2 powers plus Banishment and Hammerhand on the Pally squad means less powers and 2/6 chance of getting Sanctuary which you want. Great squad but will struggle against the above squad (which will instant death them due to Hammerhand and Rad Grenades), won't be buffed most of the time from needing to activate Force weapons.

Or my personal favorite:
765 points of Imperial powers gets you:
-GM with all the grenades, Empyrean Brain Mine, ML2, a sword (3++ in CC) and an Incinerator
-Libby, Empyrean Brain Mine, ML3, halberd and storm bolter
-Malleus Inquisitor in Termy armor, ML1, Empyrean Brain Mine, Force sword and Bolt Pistol, Liber Heresius
-7 Death Cult Assassins, Power Sword
-4 Crusaders, Storm Shield, Power Sword
-Ministorum Priest
This squad has it all. Grenades Check, 3 Brain Mines for wiping out Knights and Super Heavies check, 5 Sanctic powers and 1 from another table, with Sanctuary the Crusaders have a 2++ (rerollable with the Priest hymns), ZEALOT, and you can even give them Scouts with the Liber Heresius. YES SIR!

[Halollet]

They are sill the only army which can reliably use Santic powers which are actually very good. My thoughts are to take both a GM ml2 and Libby ml3 to get as many rolls as possible on the table. Also ally in Cotaez and another Inq to try and get invisibility.
Points to keep in mind:
-Brain mines work against Imperial Knights and other big baddies like Lords of War, you can fit a bunch into a squad.
-Crusaders have a 2++ with stormshields and Sanctuary.
-Storm ravens can auto perils daemon princes and ruin their rday.
-Even rhinos provide warp dice and iirc can cast sanctuary which will force daemons to innit 1 when assaulting through.
-an invisible Dreadknight or land raider is pretty darn scary.

Crusaders.... um... Like sister crusaders with a preist that allows them to reroll their saves in close combat? :D Including the grandmaster? Wait, doesn't Iron Halo + Force Sword + Sanctuary + War Hymns = a 2++ rerollable save for the GM?
An invisible land raider just sounds too awesome not to do.

You have sparked my imagination, thank you!


They still have unique powers. Like Harley said, they're the only ones who will actually probably ever use Santic powers. Cleansing Flame is extremely good, and GKs can provide the warp charges to back it up. Draigo and the other Grand Masters make for a better psyker than basically any other Marine option with the exception of Tigirius, with access to extremely good powers.

They're also Battle Bros with the Imperium now. That's huge. I would auto-include Tigirius or a DA Librarian with a power field generator for a 4+ or certain psychic powers (Tigirius has a 75% chance of getting any given random power, so go for Invisibility or something, or imagine multiple Land Raiders full of Paladins with a 3++ invuln).

Land Raiders got pretty good with the tougher vehicle rules. Take a Land Raider Crusader full of Paladins and go smash things. Take lots of power armor guys to run around and storm bolter/psycannon stuff. Throw in a bit of long ranged firepower and/or allies.

You'll still run into the same basic issue of being expensive Marines. Eldar and Tau will tend to still just shoot you off the table (Land Raiders will help a lot there, only the Wraithknight can hurt it).

The major local tournaments in my area have started using a comp system, which is kinda stupid though it could be a lot worse than what they've introduced, so my personal lists aren't quite written to fully take advantage of 7th, but I'm going to the BAO so I'll have to think up the nastiest list I can.

On a side note, I've stripped and begun repainting the majority of my army, since it was in varying stages of painting over many years of evolving skill level and a recently acquired airbrush:

Blending with sisters of battle has been something I've been working on for a while so I'm going to take another look at that.

I can now finally put Repentia in a land raider so they can actually make it to assault. I'm wondering if there's a way to boost them more with a GK character at all... hmm..

[Harley]

Err good point. Iron Halo + Nemesis Sword, + Sanctuary + War Hymns is amazing.

Remember that Inquisitors can bring Crusaders even in a GK or Inquisitors army. Crusaders are now found in 3 codex.

[DarkLink]

Paladins are boss. You need Draigo and/or a Land Raider, but they're the best terminator unit in the game hands down. They kill everything they touch, and there are relatively few things that have the means to kill them, and careful positioning with Draigo allows you to handle those few things pretty effectively.


@Darklink - I look forward to seeing your Grey Knight crew in shiny silver - and right side up! :)

Hah, yeah, it might be a little while. I'm juggling Infinity, Warmahordes, and GK, Eldar, and a CSM army right now. And someday I'll figure out why the camera on my phone randomly rotates every single picture I take. Also, I'm going for a dark grey look rather than silver. Something like this, just with grey rather than silver, and glowing blue runes instead of gold: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Zenithal_Airbrushing,_OSL_and_Snow_and_Ice_Tutoria l,_subject_-_Grey_Knight

[Halollet]

Well, I put a list together. Oi, its tough to fit everything in.

Grand Master - 220
Brain Mines, Mastery Level 2

Canoness - 95
Blade of Admonition

Battle Conclave - 95
Arco-Flagellants x2, Death Cult Assassin x2, Crusader x3

Priest

GK Terminators x5 - 225
Nemesis Hammer x2, Nemesis Halerd x2, Psycannon

GK Terminators x5 - 225
Nemesis Hammer x2, Nemesis Halerd x2, Psycannon

Battle Sister Squad x6 - 147
Storm Bolters x2

Vindicare Assassin

Land Raider - 265
Multi-Melta

Land Raider Crusader - 270
Storm Bolter, Psybolt Ammo

Dreadnought -135
TL Autocannon, TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo

Points: 1847
Models: 30

2 land raiders, one with GM, Conclave, and priest and the other with one squad of termies. The other termies deep strike in while the dreadnaught, vindicare, and sisters lay down fire!

7 warp dice. Thoughts?

[DarkLink]

Brain mines suck, take rad and psykotroke grenades instead. And the Vindicare Assassin is a trap, he'll get shot to death before doing anything meaningful, at least against a competent opponent. Take an Exorcist instead, and replace the Storm Bolters on the sisters with melta/ flamers or something.

Other than that, looks pretty good.

[Harley]

I agree with Link except Brain Mines are great against Knights, Walkers and Daemon Princes who are init 1 when you assault them due to Psyk out grenades.

[Blood Shadow]

Oooooooh I think I've only just got brain mines.....if the int test comes after the buff, this makes them amazing vs. super Psyker CC units! That's ridiculous! Thnx

[Halollet]

Wow... Brain mines are really nice.

So what about the other assassins? Any new winners there?

[DarkLink]

I agree with Link except Brain Mines are great against Knights, Walkers and Daemon Princes who are init 1 when you assault them due to Psyk out grenades.

Daemons and psykers get dropped to I 1, so I guess good point, but it doesnt affect Knights or Walkers unless they're one of the former.

[CrimsonTurkey]

Well, I put a list together. Oi, its tough to fit everything in.

Grand Master - 220
Brain Mines, Mastery Level 2

Canoness - 95
Blade of Admonition

Battle Conclave - 95
Arco-Flagellants x2, Death Cult Assassin x2, Crusader x3

Priest

GK Terminators x5 - 225
Nemesis Hammer x2, Nemesis Halerd x2, Psycannon

GK Terminators x5 - 225
Nemesis Hammer x2, Nemesis Halerd x2, Psycannon

Battle Sister Squad x6 - 147
Storm Bolters x2

Vindicare Assassin

Land Raider - 265
Multi-Melta

Land Raider Crusader - 270
Storm Bolter, Psybolt Ammo

Dreadnought -135
TL Autocannon, TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo

Points: 1847
Models: 30

2 land raiders, one with GM, Conclave, and priest and the other with one squad of termies. The other termies deep strike in while the dreadnaught, vindicare, and sisters lay down fire!

7 warp dice. Thoughts?

For the most part it looks pretty solid to me except for the one glaring flaw: you have no skyfire anything. I'd hate to see this army try to deal with a flying circus.

[Halollet]

For the most part it looks pretty solid to me except for the one glaring flaw: you have no skyfire anything. I'd hate to see this army try to deal with a flying circus.

I don't have a lot of fliers in my meta so I'm not worried about that. If I do come across one I have the following twin linked weapons; 2 lascannons, 2 psy autocannons, and a psy assault cannon. Plus other multi shot, high str weapons.

But... If I had the model I might swap out one of the raiders for a stormraven.

[Maelstorm]

Hah, yeah, it might be a little while. I'm juggling Infinity, Warmahordes, and GK, Eldar, and a CSM army right now. And someday I'll figure out why the camera on my phone randomly rotates every single picture I take. Also, I'm going for a dark grey look rather than silver. Something like this, just with grey rather than silver, and glowing blue runes instead of gold: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Zenithal_Airbrushing,_OSL_and_Snow_and_Ice_Tutoria l,_subject_-_Grey_Knight

I like that look a lot!

[Harley]

Daemons and psykers get dropped to I 1, so I guess good point, but it doesnt affect Knights or Walkers unless they're one of the former.

Brain mine is still 33% chance to stunlock init4 walker or knights.

[Garradh]

Brain mine is still 33% chance to stunlock init4 walker or knights.

Wraithknights are I5. Not that it makes brain mines less worth playing.

[Halollet]

What about the Culexus assassin? People are bringing more psykers so it 'should' make sense to bring the psyker assassin.

Too little power for too frail a model for too many points still?

[DarkLink]

The assassins are all terrible. They'll die before ever doing anything against a competent opponent.

[CrimsonTurkey]

The assassins are all terrible. They'll die before ever doing anything against a competent opponent.

Regardless, I take the Vindicare in every game because I'm poor and it's the cheapest 120 points in the army.

[Wildcard]

culexus would be interesting given the amount of psykers GK can get as well as how many psykers 7th ed will be bringing to the table..

[Harley]

Assassin's are fun but would need to be 20-40 points cheaper to be effective. It seems like a Psybolt Dread is much more effective for the points than a Vindicaire. AN Interceptor squad is more effective than a Calidus. The others aren't even really worth mentioning.

[Halollet]

Assassin's are fun but would need to be 20-40 points cheaper to be effective. It seems like a Psybolt Dread is much more effective for the points than a Vindicaire. AN Interceptor squad is more effective than a Calidus. The others aren't even really worth mentioning.

Speaking about interceptors, I've never used them before. What kind of load out would you use? I had a thought about using them because of their ability to shunt onto an objective in maelstrom.

[DarkLink]

Psycannons. The answer is always psycannons. Incinerators are kind of tempting, but you need psycannons more. Otherwise, psybolt ammo and that's about it. Unfortunately, Interceptors kind of get shot down pretty quickly for their points, especially considering they cost twice as much as a unit of Tactical Marines.

[Halollet]

Very true. Had a thought while reading your reply. I'm wondering how an unbound list of nothing but interceptors would do. First turn just surround your enemy, flame their troops and cannon the side of their tanks. Might be fun to try out!

[John Bower]

I think blanket saying that vindicare are useless is a bit unfair, they are very situational; in a game with decent ruins and cover for them they can be good; still a lucky shot can end them; happened to me, talk about bad luck, he was in ruins so had a 2+ cover save. Got hit with a Bright Lance, and rolled a 1, sucked. And remember that was ID for him.

[Harley]

Very true. Had a thought while reading your reply. I'm wondering how an unbound list of nothing but interceptors would do. First turn just surround your enemy, flame their troops and cannon the side of their tanks. Might be fun to try out!

The advantage of Interceptors is that they can be in the right place without getting shot up. But don't over estimate them. Consider the following;

Interceptors can move 36" in a single round and cost double a normal marine.
Normal Gk in a Rhino can move 18" in a single round for only 35 points extra.
Normal Gk can deep strike anywhere for no extra cost.
Some units like Wyvern can deal more damage than Interceptors without even moving. Units like Heldrakes can do the same and are harder to kill.

Sometimes you don't need to move a full 36 inches in which case your extra points spent on Interceptors is wasted.

[Archaeinox]

I see a few GK players adjusting and adapting to the new changes of 7th. Personally, I feel that GK are represented quite well now. I like the changes to the Aegis armor, and I think it is great for when your units are targeted.

As a GK opponent who has TS and Tzeentch stuff I am scared of a few things:

1.) Banishment access by lots of stuff (Good move, GW)
2.) Draigo with Sanctic powers, particularly Sanctuary
3.) Vehicles that get Warp Surge (hilarious)

All in all, I think GK are where they should be.. They should be a brutal. Not 5th Edition GK vs. CSM brutal, but a "Oh man, GK. This will be a challenge" sort of brutal.

[conker249]

Running Dreaknights with teleporters, Intercepters, and mordrak all shunting up the board gives a lot of target saturation, and a good chance for first blood.