Feel No Pain and Perils of the Warp

[-Tom-]

Hello everyone,

Something that cropped up in a game to test out 7th Ed. yesterday, I was using a wraithseer. He was casting his psychic ability onto himself that gives him Feel No Pain, was successful, but also got a Perils and took a wound.

I wondered whether I should have been able to use the FNP that he had to ignore the wound (being that it isn't a 'save' as has been discussed elsewhere, but is specifically a wound ignore). The discussion came down to ordering though... i.e.

Cast Psychic ability successfully -> Gains FNP -> Suffers Perils wound -> Uses FNP on Perils wound - would seem fine.

Alternatively, if it was deemed that he hadn't cast it successfully at that initial step, because by that point my opponent still had the chance to roll his dice to counter the ability. So instead:

Start to cast Psychic ability (successful first step but not 'fully cast') -> Takes Perils wound -> Opponent's chance to counter (failed) -> Gains FNP, but too late to do anything about the Perils wound.



We went with the latter. What are thoughts on this?

[Krefey]

I'd be inclined to say that the perils effect happens before you gain the benefit of the psychic power (so no FNP result). I don't have a rulebook on me atm, so don't have any hard rules to back that up though.

*edit - also, once you get sufficient successes for a psychic power, it has been successfully cast. Your opponent can only attempt to deny a power that has been successful.

[Mad Cat]

It is possible to cast a power and perils so the FNP would be in effect if the power was cast so I would give the FNP save.

It is also possible to perils, succeed and then be denied in which case you don't get the FNP save.

It is also possible to fail a level 3 power and perils by rolling 2x6's and not geting 3x4+ results so you wouldnt get the benefits either.

[Aegwymourn]

You apply the effects of the perils immediately. Since you check for perils before the power has been "cast" you would not get the FNP from the power you're casting.

If you check the BRB it is fairly clear. Right at the end of step three for manifesting psychic powers it says "if two or more sixes are rolled, the psyker suffers perils of the warp, which is resolved immediately". You don't resolve the actual psychic power itself until step five.

[Blood Shadow]

In the SR section of the BRB it is quite implicit that F'N'P can be used against Perils of the Warp, this is a change since 6th....

But as stated above the Perils is immediately resolved upon rolling at least 2x6s, before the power manifests.

So in the example Warlock's case the F'N'P would have only been successfully cast after the model already suffers the wound, if the model is already at W=0 he's dead and can't be affected by the F'N'P ignores wounds rule.

[DarkLink]

You got fnp against perils in 6th, too. And in 5th. And still in 7th.

[Caitsidhe]

In the SR section of the BRB it is quite implicit that F'N'P can be used against Perils of the Warp, this is a change since 6th....

But as stated above the Perils is immediately resolved upon rolling at least 2x6s, before the power manifests.

So in the example Warlock's case the F'N'P would have only been successfully cast after the model already suffers the wound, if the model is already at W=0 he's dead and can't be affected by the F'N'P ignores wounds rule.

Please cite in quotes the line you feel is so implicit?

[DarkLink]

The logic that you die from suffering a wound before fnp kicks in is completely nonsensical. Fnp would literally never work, ever, if that was how it interacted with taking wounds.

[Haighus]

The logic that you die from suffering a wound before fnp kicks in is completely nonsensical. Fnp would literally never work, ever, if that was how it interacted with taking wounds.
The question here is more if FNP generated by a psychic power can be used to protect against wounds caused by a perils which is suffered during casting said power, not whether FNP can be used for perils full stop.

[DarkLink]

Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

[-Tom-]

The question here is more if FNP generated by a psychic power can be used to protect against wounds caused by a perils which is suffered during casting said power, not whether FNP can be used for perils full stop.

Yep, this.

It was a case that the Wraithseer would get FNP from the psychic ability he was using, upon himself. At the same moment though, he took the Perils. So the 'ordering' of what was happening may have been important as to whether he actually 'had' FNP at the moment of getting the Perils.

[Anggul]

I would say the power doesn't actually take effect until after your opponent has attempted to deny the witch, and as perils comes before that you wouldn't get the benefits of the power against it. I don't have the rulebook in front of me at the moment though, so I can't say for sure.

[John Bower]

The way my mate and I played it is that perils happened before fnp took effect. It seems logical as it does happen before the power becomes effective. Otherwise you would have the situation of:

Roll for power - double 6 - perils - enemy tries to dispel and fails - fnp roll, which is pretty much nonsense; otherwise you do the perils, fnp then he dispels it which would still be nonsense. So yeah, you get fnp against perils if and only if you already have it, but not otherwise. So if another caster had used it for example; then the 2nd caster fluffed and got perils he'd get it.

[Blood Shadow]

Please cite in quotes the line you feel is so implicit?

From the F'n'P USR in the BRB:

"this is not a saving throw and so can ​
be used against attacks that state that ‘no saves of any kind are allowed’, for example those inflicted by Perils ​
of the Warp"

See implicit enough? Jeez

[DarkLink]

You mean explicit? Since it specifically mentions perils, it would be explicit. Implicit would imply but not directly state you could use it on perils.

[Blood Shadow]

Perhaps I was being ironic, or perhaps just illiterate....but either way the rules are as they are

[Anggul]

Feel no pain works against perils, but that isn't what Tom was asking, he was asking if you get the benefits of the power before perils.

Just looked it up in the rulebook. The order for manifesting powers is: Take psychic test, if the psyker suffers perils of the warp it's resolved immediately. Then deny the witch, then if the power gets through you then resolve the psychic power.

Perils happens before the power resolves, so you don't get the feel no pain in that situation.

[Tynskel]

You mean explicit? Since it specifically mentions perils, it would be explicit. Implicit would imply but not directly state you could use it on perils.

hmmmm... that depends.

It says explicitly that it may be used against perils, but it doesn't not explicitly, or implicitly mean FNP may be used in this instant.

[Caitsidhe]

The second the power is successfully cast it is in effect. The Perils and the casting happen at the same time and so I would say, yes... they get their FNP roll.

[Blood Shadow]

The second the power is successfully cast it is in effect. The Perils and the casting happen at the same time and so I would say, yes... they get their FNP roll.

Actually whilst thematically it may seem so, as per the rules sequence it doesn't as the DTW roll has not happened yet.

First step is to harness a WC point on a 4+
Then check for any perils
Then check for DTW...
Then if all ok resolve the chosen psychic power...

The perils comes at the harnessing step, not the resolving step, if the Psyker is wounded before the power is resolved then he doesn't have F'n'P

[Anggul]

Actually whilst thematically it may seem so, as per the rules sequence it doesn't as the DTW roll has not happened yet.

First step is to harness a WC point on a 4+
Then check for any perils
Then check for DTW...
Then if all ok resolve the chosen psychic power...

The perils comes at the harnessing step, not the resolving step, if the Psyker is wounded before the power is resolved then he doesn't have F'n'P

Yup, this. Any other powers afterwards he'll get it against, but not for that power.