Chaos Supplemental Allies

[Lord Krungharr]

Both Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion say they can be Battle Brothers with Chaos Space Marines' Codex. But how do they treat each other?

I'm inclined to say they would be Battle Brothers since all their units are actually chosen from the CSM Codex, but there could be something I'm missing? Those super duper psykers with artefacts would make excellent allies!

[Caitsidhe]

Both Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion say they can be Battle Brothers with Chaos Space Marines' Codex. But how do they treat each other?

I'm inclined to say they would be Battle Brothers since all their units are actually chosen from the CSM Codex, but there could be something I'm missing? Those super duper psykers with artefacts would make excellent allies!

They are all the same faction and thus Battle Brothers.

[Quaade]

It's worth noting that allying with your supplements is impossible as they count as your own faction for the purposes of FOC.
It is however possible to take them as a second detachment in your CAD.

[Caitsidhe]

It's worth noting that allying with your supplements is impossible as they count as your own faction for the purposes of FOC.
It is however possible to take them as a second detachment in your CAD.

Except that the Codex always takes precedence over the rule book, and both the Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter book say they can ally with CSM.

[Lord Krungharr]

I've pondered these Chaos Supplements further, and am still uncertain about using them properly.

So because the supplements themselves say BL/CS can indeed ally with CSM, there could be an Allied Detachment of CS to get a bad-*** biker/disc lord for a 3rd HQ and Possessed Troops.

But then in the CSM detachment, let's say its my Primary to get Huron Blackheart for his Warlord Trait, can I also have a Black Legion HQ and some Chosen as Troops (with VOLTW of course)?...because they're all the same faction and therefore can all be in the same detachment?

That would be great for CSMs, because it would mean that they basically get 2 other Troops choices besides regular CSMs and Cultists.

But then does the Crimson Slaughter Allied detachment have to only have Crimson Slaughter units in it? If the only difference between CS and CSM units is the Artefacts and Possessed rules, then how does one even determine what a CS detachment really means?

What say ye?

[DWest]

I think you'd need to dip into the fluff a bit-- Chaos after the end of the Heresy has been very fluid and, well, Chaotic. Alliances are made and broken all the time. Using Huron as your Warlord makes it even easier; the CS, knowing they're considered renegades now and in dire need of resupply are willing to work with this most notorious of pirates for a share of loot to keep going. In practice, what this means is your Crimson Slaughter detachment are separate in name (and slight color variation) only, which is pretty much how the story puts it: they think they're different, that they have their own goals, but they're just another pawn of the Ruinous Powers, doing their bidding.

[Charistoph]

I think you'd need to dip into the fluff a bit-- Chaos after the end of the Heresy has been very fluid and, well, Chaotic. Alliances are made and broken all the time. Using Huron as your Warlord makes it even easier; the CS, knowing they're considered renegades now and in dire need of resupply are willing to work with this most notorious of pirates for a share of loot to keep going. In practice, what this means is your Crimson Slaughter detachment are separate in name (and slight color variation) only, which is pretty much how the story puts it: they think they're different, that they have their own goals, but they're just another pawn of the Ruinous Powers, doing their bidding.

Not entirely true. They have some slightly different options, such as Possessed Troops, than a standard Codex: Chaos Marines Detachment may have. So long as the CS Detachment doesn't violate the exceptions listed in its own book, its legal.

[DWest]

I was under the impression he was looking less for 'book legality' as 'why make them a separate detachment?'. What I was trying to get at is, mechanically there is very little difference between base CSM and CS, so you need to delve into background reasons to tell them apart. One of those could be running only 'possessed' models (inc. Warp Talons as fast, Obliterators as heavy, for example), as CSM allies, i.e. send them only the really corrupt ones.