2000 Points Astra Militarum All-Comers Armour Heavy: Help Wanted

[Austin Becht]

Hello everyone! So I am jumping back into 40k after a very long break (since before Christmas!) for 7th edition and have decided to start anew with the new edition. I have chosen Astra Militarum, after much deliberation. After some help on another forum (http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/imperial-guard-army-lists/282962-2000-points-astra-militarum-all-comers-armour-heavy.html#post2578586), and some shifting of my own, I have made the following army list, though as per request I am seeking out further opinions. I think it is a good all-comers list on paper. I do know that it lacks any presence in the psychic phase, but I rather wanted to focus on tanks rather then silly psykers or loads of infantry. So then, onto the main event:

HQ:


Tank Commander (355 points)

Command Leman Russ Vanquisher

Lascannon
Multi-melta Sponsons

Leman Russ Exterminator

Lascannon
Multi-melta Sponsons


Troops:


Veterans Squadron (155 points)

Grenadiers Doctrine
2x Plasma Guns
Taurox

Veterans Squadron (145 points)

Grenadiers Doctrine
2x Meltaguns
Taurox

Veterans Squadron (145 points)

Grenadiers Doctrine
2x Meltaguns
Taurox


Fast Attack:


Armored Sentinel Squadron (150 points)

Armoured Sentinel

Plasma Cannon

Armoured Sentinel

Plasma Cannon

Armoured Sentinel

Plasma Cannon


Armored Sentinel Squadron (150 points)

Armoured Sentinel

Plasma Cannon

Armoured Sentinel

Plasma Cannon

Armoured Sentinel

Plasma Cannon


Hellhound Squadron (270 points)

Hellhound Flame Tank

Multi-melta

Hellhound Falme Tank

Multi-melta



Heavy Support:


Wyvern Battery (130 points)

Wyvern Suppression Tank
Wyvern Suppression Tank

Hydra Battery (140 points)

Hydra Flak Tank
Hydra Flak Tank

Leman Russ Squadron (340 points)

Leman Russ Demolisher
Leman Russ Demolisher



Total: 1980

So after points shuffling of my own, I have 20 points left and no idea where to spend it. So any suggestions there would be very helpful. Any other suggestions and comments are fair game as well. Even completely alternate lists would be fine. Any sort of suggestions that can get me going.

Thanks in advance!

PS: If you would like to see my first list and the original suggestions for change, go to this page (http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/imperial-guard-army-lists/282962-2000-points-astra-militarum-all-comers-armour-heavy.html#post2578586).

[Anggul]

I would spend the last 20pts on a third meltagun for each of the melta Veteran squads.

I don't think the command tank squad needs multi-melta sponsons. They're geared for very long range so you don't want them close enough to melta things.

[This Dave]

Looks like you're gearing up to fight Power Armor armies. If that's the case I think you've got a good force. I'm personally not a huge fan of Plasma Cannons on Sentinels though. Besides not being able to shoot at all if they get Shaken or Stunned the whole Gets Hot thing gives them a murder/suicide pact with themselves.

Maybe instead give them Missile Launchers which gives them all around utility. Or possibly even just Multi Lasers. Those actually have the exact same chance to kill a Marine as a Lascannon. It also makes the Sentinels cheaper so you don't feel as bad when they blow up. You could then use the points savings to buy more Plasma or Meltaguns for your Veterans. Or possibly give then Forward Scouts for the extra cover save or Demolitions for the always fun Demo Charge.

[Caitsidhe]

I think the days of the true "all comer" army are over. :( The current META makes it literally impossible. The best you can do is build to your strengths and go with the notion that the best defense is a good offense. Make sure you have a way to damage everything. That is the only "all comer" specification left. Can you hit invisible models? Can you defend against Psykers? Clearly your list has ways to bring the pain. Right now you can do very well in Shooting Phase, but that is about it.

[Austin Becht]

I am certainly building this list to my local meta. There are not many psykers in my meta (MAYBE one per army, with only the Eldar players running more than one, though he likes to run Eldar powers), and the transport/vehicle spam shuts down most (though not all) offensive powers. I do agree that the list would have problems versus invisible units, but most often that power is just as likely to go off as I am to kill a model in an invisible unit.

Also, some suggestions from the other thread: swap the Plasma Cannons on the Sentinels with Multi-lasers. Drop the Grenadiers doctrine. Swap the Exterminator for an Eradicator, and drop the Lascannon on it (keeping the MM sponsons). Then add in one more Vet unit in Taurox with 2 Plasmas, leaving 5 points left.

[Katharon]

Plasma cannons are *such* a bad idea to put on Sentinels. The high probability of knocking off a hull point from a vehicle that only has two to begin with is rather high. I'd recommend putting Missile Launchers or Autocannon on them.

[Austin Becht]

A recommendation on another thread said leave them bare, just with the Multi-laser, which I might just do. Missile Launchers was another of my ideas. Its a lot more of a multi-purpose weapon. But then doing that it leaves a lot of stuff that cant even touch power armour (and krak missiles versus a marine squad is just a waste), and there are quite a few power-armored armies, or equivalent (Immortal spam Crons) in my area. Yes the Demolishers will just melt the faces off of any unit they shoot at, and the plasma Vets can do something there...but thats just 2 units that can reliably kill power armor. As said above, I'm building my list to fit my local meta. My local meta is Tau, Crons, Eldar, Space Marines, Deathwing, and Chaos Marines, mostly anyways. There's players for other armies, but the majority are those listed. No one here is jerkish playing WAAC lists with, say, Serpent Spam or 4 Heldrakes, which is good...but I still have to craft a list that will be fun to play, play against, and can still crush any opponents face.

[Katharon]

You don't always need to deny them an armor save. Just making them roll enough dice to have to try making *any* armor save is usually enough. Hence why I like the ML so much, since frag missiles cover a wide range of anti-infantry solutions.

[Rissan4ever]

I recommend going with Scout Sentinels instead of Armored. The Scouts give you more mobility options, and they're cheaper. For their weapons, I recommend Autocannons. They're only 5 points more than Multilasers, and the higher Strength and AP is very helpful against heavy infantry and light armored vehicles.

I also recommend putting Pask in your command tank. His Warlord Trait gives him and his squadron Preferred Enemy, and he gets various rerolls depending on what kind of Russ he's in. It's well worth the points.

[Haighus]

Is the scout sentinel's additional mobility worth the loss of 2 AV on the front, for just 5pts more per model though? Armoured sentinels are just so cheap with the latest IG codex.

[Rissan4ever]

Yes, the extra mobility is worth it for the AV loss. In my view, every army list needs something that can Deep Strike, Outflank, etc. in order to get behind the enemy, into their deployment zone, and disrupt their movement. None of your other units can do that.

Don't underestimate the value of Outflank. If your Sentinels show up on the side with six Autocannons that can suddenly threaten an enemy tank's rear armor, that's a serious threat. Your opponent will then either have to turn to face the Sentinels, thereby exposing his rear or side armor to your tanks, or he can keep his front armor facing your tanks and get glanced to death by the Sentinels.

Anything you can do to limit your opponent's ability to maneuver and/or force them to make hard choices is good. Sentinels can do that for you.

[This Dave]

Is the scout sentinel's additional mobility worth the loss of 2 AV on the front, for just 5pts more per model though? Armoured sentinels are just so cheap with the latest IG codex.

On battles with Reserves they're definitely useful. They can come in on a flank and gank an unsuspecting vehicle or maybe grab an objective. Or against anything not in Power Armor a squadron of them with Heavy Flamers suddenly running onto the table and torching a whole unit is hilarious (unless it happens to you). They are definitely more vulnerable being AV 10 and Open Topped though, but with the lower points cost they still make good distractions.

[Rissan4ever]

On battles with Reserves they're definitely useful.
And ALL the Eternal War and Maelstrom of War missions in the book use Reserves, so you'll pretty much be able to outflank in every game.