The unforgiven requests your aid stalwart comrades.

[Themaninthegreenhat]

Hi-ya

running combo-wing (probably going towards sammael, but i like having a balanced army and i want to make it work first) but i need to add some heavy firepower. Right now my Heavy support choice is usually dominated by two groups of devestators, one with two missile launchers and a lascannon, and the other with three Plasma cannons. The Pc do good 3+ devestation (:o ) but i need to crack A LOT of armour, usually i'd go with my bikes (see below) but they and the termies get diddled to death by guards, or counter charged by marines.

so i call upon all loyal astartes, and disloyal, and hangers on or general psychics, what should i expand with? have been looking at vindicators and Contemptors. But can't really make up my mind.

A general list for me 1850

HQ
librarian, psyker lvl 2
Command squad, power swords and plasmas.
razorback

Troops
2*10 marines with Vet sargepowerfist and flamer in each grouping. two rhinos

Fast
2*6 bikers with one or two meltaguns (depends on points)

elites
6 termies, chainfist, power sword,assault cannon, cyclone missile launcher and lightning claws
6 termies, chainfist, power sword , assault cannon

Heavy support
7 devestators, 2 missile 1 lascannon
7 devestators 3 plasma cannons.

thanks appreciated.

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

If you're open to forgeworld units, the Contemptor Mortis Pattern Dreadnought is good. I usually take dual Kheres Assault Cannons which give you 12 S6 rending shots.. So you are better off against AV14 than lascannons, can still destroy infantry, and have Skyfire - which it seems like you could use.

[Themaninthegreenhat]

If you're open to forgeworld units, the Contemptor Mortis Pattern Dreadnought is good. I usually take dual Kheres Assault Cannons which give you 12 S6 rending shots.. So you are better off against AV14 than lascannons, can still destroy infantry, and have Skyfire - which it seems like you could use.

I am open to FW, my only question is, (becausei've seen the idea before) how does 12* S6= AV14? Are they rending? Because that would mean that all the sixes are +D3 right? i've never tried it against land raiders (one oh' my mates runs LR Blood Angels so i'd need it) as it seems like something of a gamble.But it would be good against Flyers.

good suggestion, what is you take on adding a vindicator as well? Or are they at their prime in packs?

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I am open to FW, my only question is, (becausei've seen the idea before) how does 12* S6= AV14? Are they rending? Because that would mean that all the sixes are +D3 right? i've never tried it against land raiders (one oh' my mates runs LR Blood Angels so i'd need it) as it seems like something of a gamble.But it would be good against Flyers.

good suggestion, what is you take on adding a vindicator as well? Or are they at their prime in packs?


Yeah hey are rending. I also primarily play Red Hunters so I'm used to giving it tank hunter for rerolls lol. Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of Vindicators because I rarely have the points or force org slots to take 2+ of them which is where I think they get really nasty.

Have you considered an Imperial Knight Errant ally? They move 12" and can drop a melta template at 36" (18 for the half range melta rule to apply) which is nice...

[Themaninthegreenhat]

Yeah hey are rending. I also primarily play Red Hunters so I'm used to giving it tank hunter for rerolls lol. Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of Vindicators because I rarely have the points or force org slots to take 2+ of them which is where I think they get really nasty.

Have you considered an Imperial Knight Errant ally? They move 12" and can drop a melta template at 36" (18 for the half range melta rule to apply) which is nice...

A knight is another prime contender i hadn't even considered. The thing with the knight is that the sheer monumentality of constructing, from whole fabric of resin, is such a mighty task that it is, to me, dauting. It Daunts me dawhg.

But seriously, it is a good suggestion, and with the contemptor magnetized i could try it out in different roles too. I figure i'll challenge myself to remove all Devestators for my next match.

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

A knight is another prime contender i hadn't even considered. The thing with the knight is that the sheer monumentality of constructing, from whole fabric of resin, is such a mighty task that it is, to me, dauting. It Daunts me dawhg.

But seriously, it is a good suggestion, and with the contemptor magnetized i could try it out in different roles too. I figure i'll challenge myself to remove all Devestators for my next match.

The Imperial Knight is actually a really really nice all plastic kit that can be easily magnetized and assembled for compact transport. If you need any tips, PM me and I can help.

Also, be warned though, they haven't "officially" updated the rules for the Contemptor Mortis patter dread since 7th edition released, so if there's people out there who really get stuck up on playing "rules as written" you're gonna have a conflict... basically here's the issue (not trying to hijack thread here, just throw it out so you know):

With the change to the way skyfire and interceptor behave together, if you have skyfire at all, you must snap fire at ground targets. Before, the interceptor rules would overrule this, but now they do not. The reason this stinks is because in order to gain skyfire AND interceptor with the Mortis, you have to stand still... so you then don't get a choice to use interceptor on regular targets because you'll be snap shooting... so that sucks. It's nice to be able to just stand still with the Mortis "just in case" you want to use skyfire or interceptor... they basically need to adjust the wording in its rules to say something like "if you stand still you MAY choose to gain skyfire and/or interceptor... etc." But most people in a casual setting will understand and play this as intended.... but not in a tournament setting :(

[Themaninthegreenhat]

Sorry for dragging my feet about this.

The result of this discussion is me getting a contemptor, i'm starting with one and two Kheres AC and one arm, i'll try my dab hand at magnetizing 'at sucker. And i'm getting a second one soon. My friends and i still play 6'th, so the Interceptor+Skyfire issue is not a dealbreaker.

I'm looking at getting my own flyers too ( tho' the DA ones seem a bit off-putting at first glance)

still oogling that knight, but i'll probably keep looking at it for a while.

thanks again!

[Dave Mcturk]

Hi-ya

running combo-wing (probably going towards sammael, but i like having a balanced army and i want to make it work first) but i need to add some heavy firepower. Right now my Heavy support choice is usually dominated by two groups of devestators, one with two missile launchers and a lascannon, and the other with three Plasma cannons. The Pc do good 3+ devestation (:o ) but i need to crack A LOT of armour, usually i'd go with my bikes (see below) but they and the termies get diddled to death by guards, or counter charged by marines.

so i call upon all loyal astartes, and disloyal, and hangers on or general psychics, what should i expand with? have been looking at vindicators and Contemptors. But can't really make up my mind.

A general list for me 1850

HQ
librarian, psyker lvl 2
Command squad, power swords and plasmas.
razorback

Troops
2*10 marines with Vet sargepowerfist and flamer in each grouping. two rhinos

Fast
2*6 bikers with one or two meltaguns (depends on points)

elites
6 termies, chainfist, power sword,assault cannon, cyclone missile launcher and lightning claws
6 termies, chainfist, power sword , assault cannon

Heavy support
7 devestators, 2 missile 1 lascannon
7 devestators 3 plasma cannons.

thanks appreciated.

i play v csm/ marines - mostly using tau/eldar-de mix/orcz... and all i can say is i dont think bikes are as good as they used to be in 5th ... a 5+ jink that can be removed is nowhere near as good as a 4+ cover save, even with a codex points drop im not convinced. [and in some scenarios/tournament games they are a kill point per unit!]

i think im saying - 'drop pods'! 'landraider' ! ? landraiders ? ... if you are playing 1850 then im sure you can drop a ronson-rhino for some real tracks? and if you booty up the devastators you can get two ?

again in 'new' 6th/7th shiny 40k i think terminators are hard done by! - 2 wounds? basic T5 - they might be viable - but they just get fried by firepower and overwatch. in full 7th they might have a role as they can deep strike onto objectives ? but we are still playing 6th !

[Themaninthegreenhat]

i play v csm/ marines - mostly using tau/eldar-de mix/orcz... and all i can say is i dont think bikes are as good as they used to be in 5th ... a 5+ jink that can be removed is nowhere near as good as a 4+ cover save, even with a codex points drop im not convinced. [and in some scenarios/tournament games they are a kill point per unit!]

i think im saying - 'drop pods'! 'landraider' ! ? landraiders ? ... if you are playing 1850 then im sure you can drop a ronson-rhino for some real tracks? and if you booty up the devastators you can get two ?

again in 'new' 6th/7th shiny 40k i think terminators are hard done by! - 2 wounds? basic T5 - they might be viable - but they just get fried by firepower and overwatch. in full 7th they might have a role as they can deep strike onto objectives ? but we are still playing 6th !

It's a good critique of the list and a welcome one at that, the only problem is that it invites a wholly different list i'd be building. The bikes work nicely in synergy with Deathwings, you scoutmove, and then use the Homers on turn one, if the bikes get some survivors (fire magneticism power, ACTIVATE!) then you have a turn of plasma or melta fusilade to put down, plus all my bikes have Hit&run, which makes them a good threat, they're also versatile in the sense that i can outflank with them.

But scratching two devestators and ponying up for a landraider is a good idea too. Drop pod meltas are a pretty sweet thing to put down, and meshes nicely with my fluff of "QRC DA"

[Dave Mcturk]

It's a good critique of the list and a welcome one at that, the only problem is that it invites a wholly different list i'd be building. The bikes work nicely in synergy with Deathwings, you scoutmove, and then use the Homers on turn one, if the bikes get some survivors (fire magneticism power, ACTIVATE!) then you have a turn of plasma or melta fusilade to put down, plus all my bikes have Hit&run, which makes them a good threat, they're also versatile in the sense that i can outflank with them.

But scratching two devestators and ponying up for a landraider is a good idea too. Drop pod meltas are a pretty sweet thing to put down, and meshes nicely with my fluff of "QRC DA"

hiya... love the bike models - and i run orc bikes regularly - they 'mysteriously' still get a 4+ cover save until the new codex drops!
and i use de bikes [3+ cover] and eldar run and hide bikes [3+ armour]

but still the only emotion i feel, when i get past admiring the marine bikes [one oppo has some absolutely beaut csm bikers another has a whole smurf scout company], is pity for how easily i am going to kill 6 /10 guys beetling down into melta range!

[maartendp]

Try the devs with lascannons
A stormwing datasheet is beter in the flyer departement then the ones we have. It's the only wat I use flyers whith DA