Adepta Sororitas; the army, the models, the codex, what they need and what we want.

[Harley]

Overview:
This is an overview of the current Adepta Sororitas or Sisters of Battle army and what it needs, both for 7th edition and in general. As a longtime fan of the Sisters, it’s my honest and strong belief that they are one of the most unique and interesting armies in all of science fiction and one of the least attended yet intriguing forces of Warhammer 40k. With the proper update, they could reach their potential of bringing the hobby and fandom of 40k to an entirely new demographic and broadening the horizons of the fictional universe as a whole.

Beginning with the 3rd edition Witch Hunters codex, I have played Sisters for nearly 10 years and having collected several thousands of points of models in their range, I’ll go over each facet of the army and explain my thoughts on what would be needed to renew, refresh and reinvigorate this army.

The models:
Let’s face it. No army in 40k has been as ignored and in need of an update as Adepta Sororitas. The current range looks dated, with static poses and tightly pressed limbs which clearly display the simple 2 part casting method in which they are created. Compared to today’s plastic models from any range, the Sisters models begin to appear dwarfish, bulky and amateur. Many players may not realize that the initial wave of Sisters models were released in 1997 from which most of the current models range still exists. 6 years later, in 2003, another wave gave them updated Rhino based kits and a few extra character models. That means the bulk of any Sisters army are almost 20 year old models! Add to that the fact that they are still some of the most expensive models GW sells and you see the deplorable state of this army.

Now, there have been countless chicken and egg, Catch 22 discussions about sales revenue and new models where each side bickers about the cost efficiency of a new release but it comes down to one thing; Every time Games Workshop releases a new set of models, from the beloved Space Marine to the oft ignored Ogryn, they are taking a chance. That chance is, will we see a return on this release that meets and exceeds the cost invested into it. The answer is that plastic Sisters have just as much of a chance, if not more, as any other new model at returning that investment. Add to that the hype of 20 years of waiting and I think you have potential like no other army in the game to make a huge come back. Just look at Grey Knights when re-released in 2011. With a very small release of only a few kits that took over the game by storm and soon it seemed like every table was filled with shiny, halberd wielding plastic Grey Knights.

What models do they need? The reality, surprisingly enough, could be as simple as just one. One. A Single kit, given proper special weapon options, could be all the investment Sisters need to fill their range since the majority of their units are based around the same Power Armored Sister of Battle with a Bolter. Throw in a single Flamer, Melta and their heavy variants to the sprue and bam, the range is rejuvenated! That isn’t to say that Games Workshop couldn’t cash in on more models, which they should! However, it illustrates the paradox which exists that in almost two decades, nothing has been done to revamp this army when they need so very little. Realistically, if Games Workshop wanted to make it into a big release with more potential for profit, which they should, there are a number of options they could provide for kits. For starters, Basic Sisters in a 5-10 woman squad with bolters, flamers, meltas and specialty bits would do the trick. Seraphim with jump packs, Retributors with heavy weapon variants as well as Repentia, which given a Dark Eldar like treatment with their sleek plastic changeover, would be amazing. Then there should be clam packs of unique characters which could be produced such as a plastic Canoness (with options), new Preacher, Sister Superior and more. But that is beside the point. Sisters can make most of their army from a single kit. The rest is just icing on the cake and how much Games Workshop wants to invest should be more than nothing.

The Codex; and what about the book that accompanies these models? What do the rules and fluff need? In my opinion a new and refreshing rewrite is in order as well as a physical release since the white dwarf and digital editions of late have cost little or no investment beyond their initial conception.

The fluff has long been burdened by Sisters acting as the sacrificial lambs to which many other Imperial armies have built their glory. Tales of Grey Knights killing them as psychic meat shields to Space Marines showing up at the last minute in time to save the day but too late to save the Sisters, have all been the norm. Then there are the countless examples of Xeno races using the Sisters as their “unsuspecting village” to massacre when making their insidious entrance into a plot line. The bottom line is that Sisters need a change of pace in their writing. They need a hero, one that isn’t controversial or dead or disappeared. They need a strong plot line which exemplifies their successes as well as struggles and allows them to shine in their own light without the need for a masculine touch to support them. Sure, men should have their own part in their narrative which is fair, but Sisters need strong characters which can independently carry a story and be heralded for their achievements in their own right. Currently, all the heroes of the Sisters of Battle are either dead or have disappeared.

The rules and units; Over all the Sisters of Battle have some amazing, fun units. They need alteration and expansion however to further set them apart from other armies of the Imperium. Too often units are easily comparable to Space Marines alternates; Canoness to Captain, Retributors to Devastators, Celestians to Tacticals or Honor Guard, Seraphim to Assault squads and so on with the Sisters unit usually seeming inferior to a slightly inflated but often similarly costed Space Marine. When looking at a Seraphim themed army I’ve always found myself saying, ‘I could run this same army as Blood Angels more effectively and thematic’. That shouldn’t be the case.

Other than that the major glaring deficiency in the Adepta Sororitas codex is the complete and utter lack of Skyfire. They truly need either upgrades available to their heavy weapons choices that allow them to defend themselves or some kind of shield against air born attacks. Currently Fortifications provide an option for such a thing, as do allies, but the codex needs to be able to stand on it’s own.

A final thought before getting to the units are that Adepta Sororitas are well known for hating Psykers of any kind, once being included in the codex titled Witch Hunters, and actually specialize in killing these deviants. Their rules however do not really reflect this despite the army wide Adamantium Will and questionably useful Condemner Boltgun (Psyk-out combi-bolter). In 7th edition, Amamantium Will just isn’t enough to give an army an edge at Denying the Witch in the Psykic phase since many attempts cannot even benefit from the bonus Adamantium Will provides. That leaves Sisters with a single D6 of dice, an average of 4, to try and deny powers from lists which could have 20 or more Warp Charges. Since Sisters never get extra Warp Charge dice for denying, this puts them at an extreme disadvantage when facing superior Psykic forces and aside from Black Templar (who suffer the same problem) and Grey Knights, shouldn’t the Sisters of Battle be some of the best opponent to face against these ruinous powers? They need some kind of mechanic which gives them an edge, like Psychic hoods, null fields, substitute warp charge dice or better weapons than the one time use Condemner Boltgun.

Battle Sister squads: What is there to say? They don’t even have a particular name like “Tactical”, “Assault” or “Scout”… instead they are just, a “Squad”. This is currently the only option Sororitas have for troops and are rather bland but perform well at what they do; provide cheap power armored units with multiple specialist weapons in small to large squads. They are actually quite good compared to many other troops in other codex and offer a number of tactical rolls. However there is that glaring issue of being the ONLY option, making objective based games one dimensional. Sisters NEED something else, namely a fast moving troop option such as Seraphim, bikers or a cheap “cultist” type unit. This would make their army feel filled out and finished, unlike the cobbled together half-dex they currently have. Until those changes, Sisters of Battle are stuck as a mono-build mech army that functions averagely or novelty blob lists which never quite turn out as one would hope.

Ministorum Priests: They are great, generic and available in a wide range of codex now. Every Sisters army should run as many as they can which is great for the army and for GW’s sales of less popular priest figures. They shouldn’t really be changed if not for possible unique Sororitas type wargear options.

Ecclesiarchal Warbands: Well they are basically the same as any Inquisitorial Henchmen Warbands with the exception of being only available for Crusaders, Death Cult Assassins and Arco Flagellates. That’s fine really and I can’t say I have any gripe about them besides why should they only allow 10 models when the Inquisitorial counterpart allows 12? It seems to stem from some issue with Space Marine based armies focusing on 10 man squads and Imperial Guard armies focusing on 12. No matter really since Priests make for an 11th member anyhow but it’s just an oddity. This unit is great regardless and doesn’t really need any change.

The Canoness: Needs more options and flavor. Currently, she brings nothing really new to the table unlike say, a Grey Knight Grandmaster or Inquisitor who can literally reshape his army. The Canoness is essentially just a buffed up Sister of Battle who can take a couple pieces of Wargear that are semi-useful. Since the best wargear is limited to 1 per Canoness, she will always have a crippling weakness from lacking the other pieces. Again, it cannot be stated enough, having her gear up for close combat should not be the goal. Instead, give her survivability and a utility roll of support that makes her a game changer. As it stands, few take her unless they despise/disallow special characters. It’s true, she is relatively cheap for an HQ but otherwise doesn’t truly benefit the army and offers an easy Slay the Warlord for your enemy. In the 3rd edition codex she was really feared by all by doing what the Adepta Sororitas are all about, having amazing, unique relics and wargear! A lone Canoness, for around 140 points could have WS5 Jump-pack, power weapon and 2++ Eternal Warrior (until the first failed wound). As a T3 character it was inevitable she would die against a dedicated CC squad, but she could hold her own for a few turns and actually make a difference in a battle. She needs a mechanic like giving “orders” for a squad to use a free Faith ability or something other than ‘I wish I could do more than pathetically die in close combat’, otherwise she is staying on the shelf.

Celestian Retinue: A great squad that is fluffy, powerful and unique… but doesn’t see much play because paying the cost of a Landraider for a 5 woman squad with Feel No Pain and Space Marine combat abilities doesn’t really matter when they are still Toughness and Initiative 3. Their unique Banner which gives friendlies within 12” an extra attack is amazing… but what good is an extra attack when it comes at such a steep cost from the squad and the rest of the army really isn’t optimized for close combat? This plays right into the mentality that Sisters should be sitting in the Alamo, letting the enemy come to them where they can die as glorious martyrs in their little 12” buff bubbles. Sounds cool but getting squished isn’t fun for very long.

Celestians: Probably the one unit with the most need for change. Like the Canoness and her retinue these models are always playing catch up with Space Marines. They cost many points as their Astartes brethren, yet have worse stats and need to use a faith ability just to be up to snuff with typical Marines… at which point, why not just ally in a Space Marine Captain and Assault squad? Even worse, they only achieve Marine like stats once per game, unlike the later who is always decent in Close Combat and get additionally fun Chapter Tactics. No, Celestians need something that sets them apart and gives them an important roll on the battlefield other than hoping they can go toe to toe with a Space Marine at some point. Giving them specialty weapons like Sternguard and Infiltrate is one idea, making them more into the Elite Stormtrooper-esque force that they should be. I really really want to run Celestians, but there is just 0 reason to do so. Also, why is there no unique Celestian Character? As the elite ranks of Sisters of Battle, isn’t there a single one that has risen above the rest and formed a legend of her own?

Sisters Repentia: Some of the most unique models and fluff exists with these giant chainsword wielding maidens… yet we rarely ever see them on the table top. Why is that? In my humble but experienced opinion it is because Games Workshop takes the completely wrong route with them. The rules for these women have always been to cast them as an elite force of close combat killing machines that cost a ton in points but are exceptionally fragile, but that is the exact opposite of what they are. Repentia are crazed berserker fighters spurred on by their fanatical furvor and blood lust to atone for their sins. If anything they are more akin to Ork Boyz and should be cheap, disposable units which hit hard and die easily. They should cost below 10 points, possibly count as troops with the proper HQ, and would make for a fantastic front line to any Sisters force. After all, these are the failed Sisters, those that couldn’t make it or that committed sins punishable by death. Surely they would be far more disposable than Sister squads, yet the point costs do not reflect that.

Seraphim: A most beloved unit which is exceptional at performing in a game. They are actually worse than in previous editions, but cheaper and still do well. If anything they only suffer from NOT being Dominion. One glaring detail stands out that as specialist Jump Infantry, they have no means of improving their accuracy of delivery, meaning getting these T3 models into place can be difficult despite their 3+6++. It would be great to see some mechanism of reducing deep strike scatter such as a homing beacon on Rhinos/troops or some other way to make them more survivable like a Feel no Pain buff priest ala Blood Angels. The only other adjustment they could use are more options for their Seraphim Superior who, let’s face it, could be one really cool character given the possibility. I really love Seraphim and have around 20 of them but I look at units like Blood Angel and Raven Guard assault squads and ask myself why bother?

Dominion: These girls are GREAT! The one unit I really wouldn’t mind remaining completely unchanged. I would love to own more of these if a Sister of Battle with a Melta gun didn’t cost more than many Americans make in an hour of work.

Retributors: A decent unit that suffers from the fact that they compete for a Heavy Slot with Exorcists. They are not bad, but there is nothing that really makes them especially good and their one time faith ability doesn’t really cut the mustard in comparison to the Exorcists amazing missile launcher which delivers every turn (luck providing) and actually gives the army a long ranged weapon which it otherwise lacks. A change like giving them free Skyfire & Intercept as an upgrade would not only be fair, since they would have to snapfire against ground targets, it would make them an auto include in any Sororitas army and help shore up a facet which the Sisters are sorely lacking. In previous editions they were wonderful, rending every turn after a successful leadership test… I own 12, but haven’t bothered playing a single one in years.


Exorcists: Another great unit which honestly doesn’t need any changes. They are powerful and give the Sororitas that unique feel that sets them apart from any other army in the game. My only thought is that a reasonably costed Skyfire upgrade would help bring Sisters up to snuff with modern armies that have decent anti-aircraft capabilities.

Penitent Engine: I love these as they are a true testament to the unique flavor of the Imperium that was most prevalent in 40k’s 3rd edition. If not for the exorbitant price vs points ratio for a horrible (and I do mean HORRIBLE) model its self which requires a tons pins to hold together a fragile and heavy pewter kit, you would see more of these on the field. Don’t get me wrong, the kits look cool but aren’t poseable, are heavy and easily broken. They otherwise function well in the game but do suffer as all close combat units do in 6th/7th edition from just never getting the chance to get into close combat. Except for the model, this unit is fine, it’s just melee in 7th needs to be fixed.

Well those are all of my thoughts for now… will add some more about special rules and abilities later.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Just gimme plastic Sisters and I will buy plastic Sisters.

[daboarder]

Just gimme plastic Sisters and I will buy plastic Sisters.

this, even with the current terrible book I'd still start a SoB army

[deinol]

Just gimme plastic Sisters and I will buy plastic Sisters.

Ditto.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I agree - I always felt a large portion of them could be done in one single plastic kit - ala the Grey Knights PA kit (Sisters, Dominions, Retributors, Celestians and maybe even Seraphims). I imagine it wouldnt give the units the visual distinctiveness they deserve, but it would still work well enough I imagine. Instead, GW have introduced two "new" Imperial factions : Knights and Tempestus. I think even a release on par with those two be better than nothing. I would probably buy a box or two if only to just show support for this much neglected faction.

[DrBored]

Just need plastic kits. That's all. That's the only thing we need to start that army.

[DarkLink]

Toughest Girls in the Galaxy.

[daboarder]

Those are nice but not the look im personaly after

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The TGG are great, but they work much better for Imperial Guard.

It's genuinely mystifying to me why plastic Sisters haven't appeared yet. I know they had problems with the designs a few years back, but with the architecture of the game the way it is (ie. with Allies, Unbound armies and what have you) then surely there's room for at least a small splash release, like Knights had? Who knows. Hopefully they'll turn up.

[Harley]

I agree - I always felt a large portion of them could be done in one single plastic kit - ala the Grey Knights PA kit (Sisters, Dominions, Retributors, Celestians and maybe even Seraphims). I imagine it wouldnt give the units the visual distinctiveness they deserve, but it would still work well enough I imagine. Instead, GW have introduced two "new" Imperial factions : Knights and Tempestus. I think even a release on par with those two be better than nothing. I would probably buy a box or two if only to just show support for this much neglected faction.

Yes I don't get it either... take for example the Tempestus Scions which are an entire army based on one squad and a transport... there's no reason Sisters could not do such a simple, small release if investment cost was the concern.

[DrBored]

Toughest Girls in the Galaxy.

Only if they'd freaking finish up their current Kickstarter and deliver all the product that exploded in popularity and then start the Not-Sisters-of-Battle models that they hinted at and then deliver *that*.

We're looking at like 2 years down the road before we see TGG models that are appropriate to the Adepta Sororitas style unfortunately. By that point, GW might have actually released plastic SoB.

[Alexander Jones]

Yes I don't get it either... take for example the Tempestus Scions which are an entire army based on one squad and a transport... there's no reason Sisters could not do such a simple, small release if investment cost was the concern.

Interesting point. Actually, it almost makes me wonder if the Codex for Tempestus Scions was released purely as a test bed for a Sisters release. After all, GW knew that the kit itself was going to be the regular IG updated codex as a replacement for stormtroopers, so the release we all dismissed as a money grab standalone codex (C:TS) didn't really serve a purpose. Maybe the plans are in the works for a single kit featuring all special and heavy weapons options for the four main Sororitas units, and enough bits to make a five or ten model squad, and a codex that slots into the Tempestus Scions model?

[Andrew Thomas]

Just gimme plastic Sisters and I will buy plastic Sisters.
Yes.

[Andrew Thomas]

Overview:
This is an overview of the current Adepta Sororitas or Sisters of Battle army and what it needs, both for 7th edition and in general. As a longtime fan of the Sisters, it’s my honest and strong belief that they are one of the most unique and interesting armies in all of science fiction and one of the least attended yet intriguing forces of Warhammer 40k. With the proper update, they could reach their potential of bringing the hobby and fandom of 40k to an entirely new demographic and broadening the horizons of the fictional universe as a whole.

Beginning with the 3rd edition Witch Hunters codex, I have played Sisters for nearly 10 years and having collected several thousands of points of models in their range, I’ll go over each facet of the army and explain my thoughts on what would be needed to renew, refresh and reinvigorate this army.

The models:
Let’s face it. No army in 40k has been as ignored and in need of an update as Adepta Sororitas. The current range looks dated, with static poses and tightly pressed limbs which clearly display the simple 2 part casting method in which they are created. Compared to today’s plastic models from any range, the Sisters models begin to appear dwarfish, bulky and amateur. Many players may not realize that the initial wave of Sisters models were released in 1997 from which most of the current models range still exists. 6 years later, in 2003, another wave gave them updated Rhino based kits and a few extra character models. That means the bulk of any Sisters army are almost 20 year old models! Add to that the fact that they are still some of the most expensive models GW sells and you see the deplorable state of this army.

Now, there have been countless chicken and egg, Catch 22 discussions about sales revenue and new models where each side bickers about the cost efficiency of a new release but it comes down to one thing; Every time Games Workshop releases a new set of models, from the beloved Space Marine to the oft ignored Ogryn, they are taking a chance. That chance is, will we see a return on this release that meets and exceeds the cost invested into it. The answer is that plastic Sisters have just as much of a chance, if not more, as any other new model at returning that investment. Add to that the hype of 20 years of waiting and I think you have potential like no other army in the game to make a huge come back. Just look at Grey Knights when re-released in 2011. With a very small release of only a few kits that took over the game by storm and soon it seemed like every table was filled with shiny, halberd wielding plastic Grey Knights.

What models do they need? The reality, surprisingly enough, could be as simple as just one. One. A Single kit, given proper special weapon options, could be all the investment Sisters need to fill their range since the majority of their units are based around the same Power Armored Sister of Battle with a Bolter. Throw in a single Flamer, Melta and their heavy variants to the sprue and bam, the range is rejuvenated! That isn’t to say that Games Workshop couldn’t cash in on more models, which they should! However, it illustrates the paradox which exists that in almost two decades, nothing has been done to revamp this army when they need so very little. Realistically, if Games Workshop wanted to make it into a big release with more potential for profit, which they should, there are a number of options they could provide for kits. For starters, Basic Sisters in a 5-10 woman squad with bolters, flamers, meltas and specialty bits would do the trick. Seraphim with jump packs, Retributors with heavy weapon variants as well as Repentia, which given a Dark Eldar like treatment with their sleek plastic changeover, would be amazing. Then there should be clam packs of unique characters which could be produced such as a plastic Canoness (with options), new Preacher, Sister Superior and more. But that is beside the point. Sisters can make most of their army from a single kit. The rest is just icing on the cake and how much Games Workshop wants to invest should be more than nothing.

The Codex; and what about the book that accompanies these models? What do the rules and fluff need? In my opinion a new and refreshing rewrite is in order as well as a physical release since the white dwarf and digital editions of late have cost little or no investment beyond their initial conception.

The fluff has long been burdened by Sisters acting as the sacrificial lambs to which many other Imperial armies have built their glory. Tales of Grey Knights killing them as psychic meat shields to Space Marines showing up at the last minute in time to save the day but too late to save the Sisters, have all been the norm. Then there are the countless examples of Xeno races using the Sisters as their “unsuspecting village” to massacre when making their insidious entrance into a plot line. The bottom line is that Sisters need a change of pace in their writing. They need a hero, one that isn’t controversial or dead or disappeared. They need a strong plot line which exemplifies their successes as well as struggles and allows them to shine in their own light without the need for a masculine touch to support them. Sure, men should have their own part in their narrative which is fair, but Sisters need strong characters which can independently carry a story and be heralded for their achievements in their own right. Currently, all the heroes of the Sisters of Battle are either dead or have disappeared.

The rules and units; Over all the Sisters of Battle have some amazing, fun units. They need alteration and expansion however to further set them apart from other armies of the Imperium. Too often units are easily comparable to Space Marines alternates; Canoness to Captain, Retributors to Devastators, Celestians to Tacticals or Honor Guard, Seraphim to Assault squads and so on with the Sisters unit usually seeming inferior to a slightly inflated but often similarly costed Space Marine. When looking at a Seraphim themed army I’ve always found myself saying, ‘I could run this same army as Blood Angels more effectively and thematic’. That shouldn’t be the case.

Other than that the major glaring deficiency in the Adepta Sororitas codex is the complete and utter lack of Skyfire. They truly need either upgrades available to their heavy weapons choices that allow them to defend themselves or some kind of shield against air born attacks. Currently Fortifications provide an option for such a thing, as do allies, but the codex needs to be able to stand on it’s own.

A final thought before getting to the units are that Adepta Sororitas are well known for hating Psykers of any kind, once being included in the codex titled Witch Hunters, and actually specialize in killing these deviants. Their rules however do not really reflect this despite the army wide Adamantium Will and questionably useful Condemner Boltgun (Psyk-out combi-bolter). In 7th edition, Amamantium Will just isn’t enough to give an army an edge at Denying the Witch in the Psykic phase since many attempts cannot even benefit from the bonus Adamantium Will provides. That leaves Sisters with a single D6 of dice, an average of 4, to try and deny powers from lists which could have 20 or more Warp Charges. Since Sisters never get extra Warp Charge dice for denying, this puts them at an extreme disadvantage when facing superior Psykic forces and aside from Black Templar (who suffer the same problem) and Grey Knights, shouldn’t the Sisters of Battle be some of the best opponent to face against these ruinous powers? They need some kind of mechanic which gives them an edge, like Psychic hoods, null fields, substitute warp charge dice or better weapons than the one time use Condemner Boltgun.

Battle Sister squads: What is there to say? They don’t even have a particular name like “Tactical”, “Assault” or “Scout”… instead they are just, a “Squad”. This is currently the only option Sororitas have for troops and are rather bland but perform well at what they do; provide cheap power armored units with multiple specialist weapons in small to large squads. They are actually quite good compared to many other troops in other codex and offer a number of tactical rolls. However there is that glaring issue of being the ONLY option, making objective based games one dimensional. Sisters NEED something else, namely a fast moving troop option such as Seraphim, bikers or a cheap “cultist” type unit. This would make their army feel filled out and finished, unlike the cobbled together half-dex they currently have. Until those changes, Sisters of Battle are stuck as a mono-build mech army that functions averagely or novelty blob lists which never quite turn out as one would hope.

Ministorum Priests: They are great, generic and available in a wide range of codex now. Every Sisters army should run as many as they can which is great for the army and for GW’s sales of less popular priest figures. They shouldn’t really be changed if not for possible unique Sororitas type wargear options.

Ecclesiarchal Warbands: Well they are basically the same as any Inquisitorial Henchmen Warbands with the exception of being only available for Crusaders, Death Cult Assassins and Arco Flagellates. That’s fine really and I can’t say I have any gripe about them besides why should they only allow 10 models when the Inquisitorial counterpart allows 12? It seems to stem from some issue with Space Marine based armies focusing on 10 man squads and Imperial Guard armies focusing on 12. No matter really since Priests make for an 11th member anyhow but it’s just an oddity. This unit is great regardless and doesn’t really need any change.

The Canoness: Needs more options and flavor. Currently, she brings nothing really new to the table unlike say, a Grey Knight Grandmaster or Inquisitor who can literally reshape his army. The Canoness is essentially just a buffed up Sister of Battle who can take a couple pieces of Wargear that are semi-useful. Since the best wargear is limited to 1 per Canoness, she will always have a crippling weakness from lacking the other pieces. Again, it cannot be stated enough, having her gear up for close combat should not be the goal. Instead, give her survivability and a utility roll of support that makes her a game changer. As it stands, few take her unless they despise/disallow special characters. It’s true, she is relatively cheap for an HQ but otherwise doesn’t truly benefit the army and offers an easy Slay the Warlord for your enemy. In the 3rd edition codex she was really feared by all by doing what the Adepta Sororitas are all about, having amazing, unique relics and wargear! A lone Canoness, for around 140 points could have WS5 Jump-pack, power weapon and 2++ Eternal Warrior (until the first failed wound). As a T3 character it was inevitable she would die against a dedicated CC squad, but she could hold her own for a few turns and actually make a difference in a battle. She needs a mechanic like giving “orders” for a squad to use a free Faith ability or something other than ‘I wish I could do more than pathetically die in close combat’, otherwise she is staying on the shelf.

Celestian Retinue: A great squad that is fluffy, powerful and unique… but doesn’t see much play because paying the cost of a Landraider for a 5 woman squad with Feel No Pain and Space Marine combat abilities doesn’t really matter when they are still Toughness and Initiative 3. Their unique Banner which gives friendlies within 12” an extra attack is amazing… but what good is an extra attack when it comes at such a steep cost from the squad and the rest of the army really isn’t optimized for close combat? This plays right into the mentality that Sisters should be sitting in the Alamo, letting the enemy come to them where they can die as glorious martyrs in their little 12” buff bubbles. Sounds cool but getting squished isn’t fun for very long.

Celestians: Probably the one unit with the most need for change. Like the Canoness and her retinue these models are always playing catch up with Space Marines. They cost many points as their Astartes brethren, yet have worse stats and need to use a faith ability just to be up to snuff with typical Marines… at which point, why not just ally in a Space Marine Captain and Assault squad? Even worse, they only achieve Marine like stats once per game, unlike the later who is always decent in Close Combat and get additionally fun Chapter Tactics. No, Celestians need something that sets them apart and gives them an important roll on the battlefield other than hoping they can go toe to toe with a Space Marine at some point. Giving them specialty weapons like Sternguard and Infiltrate is one idea, making them more into the Elite Stormtrooper-esque force that they should be. I really really want to run Celestians, but there is just 0 reason to do so. Also, why is there no unique Celestian Character? As the elite ranks of Sisters of Battle, isn’t there a single one that has risen above the rest and formed a legend of her own?

Sisters Repentia: Some of the most unique models and fluff exists with these giant chainsword wielding maidens… yet we rarely ever see them on the table top. Why is that? In my humble but experienced opinion it is because Games Workshop takes the completely wrong route with them. The rules for these women have always been to cast them as an elite force of close combat killing machines that cost a ton in points but are exceptionally fragile, but that is the exact opposite of what they are. Repentia are crazed berserker fighters spurred on by their fanatical furvor and blood lust to atone for their sins. If anything they are more akin to Ork Boyz and should be cheap, disposable units which hit hard and die easily. They should cost below 10 points, possibly count as troops with the proper HQ, and would make for a fantastic front line to any Sisters force. After all, these are the failed Sisters, those that couldn’t make it or that committed sins punishable by death. Surely they would be far more disposable than Sister squads, yet the point costs do not reflect that.

Seraphim: A most beloved unit which is exceptional at performing in a game. They are actually worse than in previous editions, but cheaper and still do well. If anything they only suffer from NOT being Dominion. One glaring detail stands out that as specialist Jump Infantry, they have no means of improving their accuracy of delivery, meaning getting these T3 models into place can be difficult despite their 3+6++. It would be great to see some mechanism of reducing deep strike scatter such as a homing beacon on Rhinos/troops or some other way to make them more survivable like a Feel no Pain buff priest ala Blood Angels. The only other adjustment they could use are more options for their Seraphim Superior who, let’s face it, could be one really cool character given the possibility. I really love Seraphim and have around 20 of them but I look at units like Blood Angel and Raven Guard assault squads and ask myself why bother?

Dominion: These girls are GREAT! The one unit I really wouldn’t mind remaining completely unchanged. I would love to own more of these if a Sister of Battle with a Melta gun didn’t cost more than many Americans make in an hour of work.

Retributors: A decent unit that suffers from the fact that they compete for a Heavy Slot with Exorcists. They are not bad, but there is nothing that really makes them especially good and their one time faith ability doesn’t really cut the mustard in comparison to the Exorcists amazing missile launcher which delivers every turn (luck providing) and actually gives the army a long ranged weapon which it otherwise lacks. A change like giving them free Skyfire & Intercept as an upgrade would not only be fair, since they would have to snapfire against ground targets, it would make them an auto include in any Sororitas army and help shore up a facet which the Sisters are sorely lacking. In previous editions they were wonderful, rending every turn after a successful leadership test… I own 12, but haven’t bothered playing a single one in years.


Exorcists: Another great unit which honestly doesn’t need any changes. They are powerful and give the Sororitas that unique feel that sets them apart from any other army in the game. My only thought is that a reasonably costed Skyfire upgrade would help bring Sisters up to snuff with modern armies that have decent anti-aircraft capabilities.

Penitent Engine: I love these as they are a true testament to the unique flavor of the Imperium that was most prevalent in 40k’s 3rd edition. If not for the exorbitant price vs points ratio for a horrible (and I do mean HORRIBLE) model its self which requires a tons pins to hold together a fragile and heavy pewter kit, you would see more of these on the field. Don’t get me wrong, the kits look cool but aren’t poseable, are heavy and easily broken. They otherwise function well in the game but do suffer as all close combat units do in 6th/7th edition from just never getting the chance to get into close combat. Except for the model, this unit is fine, it’s just melee in 7th needs to be fixed.

Well those are all of my thoughts for now… will add some more about special rules and abilities later.
The main things we should hope to get out of a new SoB Codex are reliable detachment-wide USRs, like a buff system that holds up, and occupies the same design space as the psychic phase for other Factions, more close to midrange tactical bias, with rules to support that play style, and generic ICs that function like the Emperor-powered superhero(in)es they are supposed to represent. And lastly, a departure from Invul saves as representative of divine intervention; there are USRs that do an infinitely better job.

[Joe Cross]

i think the end of this year/early next year alot of sisters players will be happy if the release schedule my friend has seen stays true. And for ppl saying the current book is terrible, in many ways it is bad, but not terrible everything wrong with it (apart from troop options) can be fixed with the inquisitor allys, fortifications or the Avenger strike fighter. And as you can now use allys transports, Repentia charging out of a land raider with a inquisitor for hammerhand, 2 crusaders for the invulns and priests for re-rolls to saves you have a awesome unit, S10 AP2 re-rolling hits thanks to zealot from the priest.

[odinswolf]

give back the sisters access to inquisitors and their toys in the codex (ASSASSINS!!!!) why do grey knights get the goodies? why does the inquisition codex not have assassins?

[This Dave]

i think the end of this year/early next year alot of sisters players will be happy if the release schedule my friend has seen stays true. And for ppl saying the current book is terrible, in many ways it is bad, but not terrible everything wrong with it (apart from troop options) can be fixed with the inquisitor allys, fortifications or the Avenger strike fighter. And as you can now use allys transports, Repentia charging out of a land raider with a inquisitor for hammerhand, 2 crusaders for the invulns and priests for re-rolls to saves you have a awesome unit, S10 AP2 re-rolling hits thanks to zealot from the priest.

Crusaders and Priests in the Inquisition codex can't join other units since they're not ICs. But you're right, adding some Inquisition vehicles and Psyker support will definitely help.

[Harley]

Crusaders and Priests in the Inquisition codex can't join other units since they're not ICs. But you're right, adding some Inquisition vehicles and Psyker support will definitely help.

While this is true, don't Sisters deserve a stand alone codex that can be played by it's self without being handicapped? They were able to in 5th edition VERY well but have been left behind as the game progresses and add more facets to it's play. Flyers, Monstrous Creatures, and Psykers (Psychic phase) have all become HUGE parts of the game, arguably even more important and powerful than vehicles, yet the Sisters codex almost completely ignores these units and feels gimped because of it.

It's as if the writers of the current Sororitas codex still think it's 5th edition and Skyfire, Warp Charge dice, and T6+ monsters don't matter.

I DO often run Inquisition with my Sisters, but I shouldn't HAVE to.

[John Bower]

give back the sisters access to inquisitors and their toys in the codex (ASSASSINS!!!!) why do grey knights get the goodies? why does the inquisition codex not have assassins?

actually they sort of do now... Unbound lists give anyone assassins. :)

But plastic Sisters.. Not going to happen, it's Catch 22, there aren't enough sisters players to make a decent codex and plastic kits viable; because there aren't any plastic kits.

[Kibbles Lil-Bit]

Risk = Reward.
They might be surprised on how much they would sell, but if they don't sell as well as expected, at least they tried.

[Thaldin]

As long as pysker support doesn't come in the form of psykers. It should be Blanks/Nulls for denial or bring back the faith options to increase the chance of shrugging off effects.

[Edweird]

I own and run about 7kish of Sisters... So yeah pretty invested in them.

They have fallen quite a ways from the old witch hunters days, and ultimately feel like I am playing a whining hipster army, "had situational 3++, AP1, auto regroup, allies, assassins, deny the witch, etc before it was cool and everyone else got it" and diametric changes to the codex which shift collections into the used market(good bye stormtroopers, chimeras, Inquisitors, henchmen, access to landraiders). But all of that is complaints... Let's be more constructive.

The current book... Available in digital only, and only getting updates when eldar or daemon WAAC players cry about a good anti psyker piece of wargear. My major fluff problems come from idiotic things in other books, ie Greg knights slaying an entire convent of sisters to wash their armor in SoB blood, and other atrocities like Sanctuary101 that went without fluff vengeance. Someone needs to slap Mat Ward for that BTW.
Re current rules... I do enjoy playing the single play style the current book offers me but its very shoe horned. I prefer to play a fully SoB army, instead of running a priest 1 per every 5 SoB on the ground. Leaving the convent for a girls night out without a chaperone would be nice if they did not bundle all of the useful abilities on an after thought model. On to specific units as the OP...
-HQ- Gone are the days of Jump Cannoness being quite the hardass, her access to Seraphim jump packs needs to return. I'd like to see her use an Evisorator one handed at init like a badass but that's a bit much. There is a lot of wish listing that could be done but ultimately she needs utility that puts her in a place where she could rival old man jacobs ability's. I'd also like to see two additional options for retinue, repentia and seraphim.
-characters... We have lost quite a bit here, spacepope is gone entirely, Karamazov has thrown in with the frat boys of Grey Knights with every inquisitor and henchmen. Hell even the Ordo Hereticus itself has excommunicated itself to the beer pong tables of Titan. Kinda sick of all of that... That's where most of the angst in being a SoB player comes from.

Elites- honestly I see nothing Elite about this book...
Move Pentient Engines into Elite like every other dreadnaught in the game.
Celestians need a leg up: if they want them to be Melee monsters I suggest they emulate terminators with upped WS & 3++, infiltrate, and power weapons stock. If they want Celestians to be super shooters(my pref) I advocate free run before or after shooting, access to 4 heavy wpns with relentless.
Repentia are a mess... Agreed fully.
If I could Request a 0-5 IC Sister Hospitier that replaces the Priest but retains the battle hymns.

-Troops. As they are I don't mind them... Reasons to run larger squads would be nice.

-Transports. Can we get the damn Repressor added to the Codex already? Also there is fluff of SoB using Valkyrie's that would be swell...

-Fast
Dominions are easily the best of the SoB currently... Although I do miss the twin linked faith ability of the previous rules. Ignores cover screws up the way I like to run them and only benefits melta based builds.
Seraphs are on the cusp of being great but lack any real threat in close combat which is likely the point... Maybe some overwatch mobility(new version hit&run) is the answer?

Heavy-
Exorcists are the best we got... Only complaint there is the idiotic LOS rules from the 7th Ed rule book which we ignore regarding the exorcist. If I could wish list changes for it...1 let's make it Heavy 4... D6 shots is dumb. Ammo upgrades... Flakk missiles for skyfire, Cluster munitions for barrage, maybe some antipsyker jazz as well.

As for wargear... Pretty please with sugar on top psybolt&psyflame upgrades? Condemnor Boltguns should have their math looked at objectively... Right now its nearly impossible to land a hit against a psyker especially with the way they shooting phase has moved to weapon types, not to mention look out sir etc.

[Harley]

@Edweird

I think we are on the same page for SoB and I agree with most of your post. SoB really need to be able to run squads on their own without a chaperone to give them the protection and special abilities they need.

Condemnor Boltguns are a joke and pretty much useless, not to mention if you outfit a squad with them, they can't really do anything else effectively. If they are to be a one trick poney, they at least need to do the trick.

I like the idea about Hospitallers taking the place of priests or having both as an option. Say, can use battle hymns but loses the Zaelot/Hatred and instead gives the squad Feel No Pain would be aces.

[daboarder]

@Edweird
Condemnor Boltguns are a joke and pretty much useless, not to mention if you outfit a squad with them, they can't really do anything else effectively. If they are to be a one trick poney, they at least need to do the trick.


Its a shame really, they didnt start out useless, but the psyker players cried so much they nerfed them to hell

[acb16]

personally i am looking at using the iron empire tgg models as my new look sob with anvil packs to give them the right feel as i am tired
of waiting for GW to update the models and if/when they do i have a IG support for them but really in need of a good codex for them

[Edweird]

Not to make this a TGG thread... My TGG are becoming Elysians, when they do sisters of eternal mercy I will have to give my SoB some love then. TGG is clearly Catachan/DKoK/Mordians inspired

[PaladinSL]

Sisters are still suffering from the same issue they have always had, they are an aesthetic niche army, there is no setup for them that wouldn't work better with either Space Marines or Guard doing the job instead. Don't get me wrong, I support the expansion of the game and love to see new armies released even when they first hit the table as overpowered thunderstorms of hellfire. I would totally support the return of the sisters if they could be found a reason to exist by themselves as a stand alone force and not just cookie-cuttering bits out of another race's codex.

I always try to comment on threads regarding the sisters because the arguments to bring them back are always boiling down to the same point in the end "I have these models, make me rules for them again because: I have these models" that's not enough for GW, they threw a bone with that Digital codex and I just don't think enough people bit it. The race is dead, it's only floating around the periphery still so GW can avoid axing another race that might pick up popularity later, if you really really want GW to pick this ball up and run with it again, you are going to have to send them little green messages out of your wallets, when their existing stockline is selling, they will start thinking about rejuvenating them.

[Harley]

Sisters are still suffering from the same issue they have always had, they are an aesthetic niche army, there is no setup for them that wouldn't work better with either Space Marines or Guard doing the job instead. Thanks to GW's poorly written codex, not due to lack of potential in the army. Don't get me wrong, I support the expansion of the game and love to see new armies released even when they first hit the table as overpowered thunderstorms of hellfire. I would totally support the return of the sisters if they could be found a reason to exist by themselves as a stand alone force and not just cookie-cuttering bits out of another race's codex. Actually other race's codex are the ones who cookie-cuttered bits out of the Sister's army. The 5th edition Blood Angel's codex especially cherry picked great bits from the Witch Hunter codex to great effect.

I always try to comment on threads regarding the sisters because the arguments to bring them back are always boiling down to the same point in the end "I have these models, make me rules for them again because: I have these models" that's not enough for GW, they threw a bone with that Digital codex and I just don't think enough people bit it. Actually that bone was unneeded, unwanted and insulting. The Witch Hunter codex was far better than the White Dwarf and current digital codex and actually provided options to the army. The race is dead, it's only floating around the periphery still so GW can avoid axing another race that might pick up popularity later, if you really really want GW to pick this ball up and run with it again, you are going to have to send them little green messages out of your wallets, when their existing stockline is selling, they will start thinking about rejuvenating them.

My replies in Plum

GW's not getting any more of my $ until they snap out of the same paradoxical ideology you present which cannot cope with the catch 22 of people not buying the models because they are not new so they can't come out with new models because people don't buy them. Break the cycle. Sisters have the same investment risk as any new/unattended army such as Imperial Knights or these new Tempestus Scions AND Sisters have a pre-established fanbase with proven appeal. At the very least a sound and safe investment would be a single plastic box of troops with options and a dataslate to go along with the digital dex.

[Arkhan Land]

this year i put together a very basic 1k sob force, would have been 2 or 3k if there was a decent plastic troops kit, i think the sisters could use a real good reworking. in general
I think the old metal models are fine but they look kinda weird next to the new style vehicles. ide like something a little more goth-ed out, more dangley icons, more relief sculping of cool imperial religous stuff. i think gw will get around to it before the company folds im hoping

[helline9]

Let’s not forget that Sisters especially the Witchhunters codex was basically the precursor blueprint for the Grey knights, Blood angels and Black Templars rules to name a few (and arguably much of the current Inquisition). Many of the Sisters old rules have been looted to buff these space marines’ variants to make them as competitive and loved as we see today, but let’s not dwell on what was. My point here is the proof is in the pudding, Sisters where a strong, popular army and can be again.
...So let’s move on.
The old Sisters’ rules have been reassigned to other armies so we have to come up with new rules/ abilities for the Adepta Sororitas, that's fine. With the way 6th/ 7th is it would actually be easier than it was back then. And while we are at it we need to make Adepta Sororitas far more distinct from other Imperial forces. The common view of Sisters is that they are just female space marines as an indication, when in fact they are more like Imperial Guard storm troopers in power armour than Space marines.
Point here is that there is a lot of misconceptions about what are Sisters, when there shouldn't be. In my mind Sisters are arguably the army that most clearly reflects the brutality of the 40k setting especially the crushing harshness of the Imperial regime. With new rules and some new units they could be used to show this like no other army could; units such imperial cultists (cheap unit), tortured prisoners (affects enemy morale) and the Incarcerator (an anti-psyker containment vehicle) as some simple suggestions as well as a heavier emphasis on Repentia, Arco-flagellants and Penitent engines.
Sisters are the brute force, the SS to both the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition with links to the Black ships; add all of this more into their design and you have a dark, gruesome, unique feel that sets them apart from other Imperial armies.
As for the sisters themselves make Eviscerators an unrestricted melee weapon (so any squad leader/ IC can take it) again and add Condemner boltguns (unrestricted) to special weapons.
In their story Sisters are always in the defense of something; either Ecclesiastical personnel, temples or relics so make them a defensive based army with a reduced cost for fortifications, access to suppression shields (4++ sv) and Sister Hospitallers (IC's that grant Feel no pain) . Having a faith point system based on how much they are resisting the enemy could be appropriate here too (like a defensive version of Dark Eldar 'power from pain' rule based on Sisters passing Morale/ Pinning/ Deny the witch tests caused by the opponent). Oh and they need to add in Repressors (a cross between a Chimera and a Rhino with a Siege shield) & Vindicators, also make Penitent engines more than just a over-costed, ineffective melee Sentinel with less deployment options (an armoured Sentinel has more armour btw) and reduce the cost of everything!

Finally to fix the deny the witch problem; let every Sisters squad count as mastery level 1 when calculating Deny the Witch tests.

If anyone thinks that this is too giving Sisters too much advantage remember that they have huge flaws; no psykers, no Monstrous creatures, no flyers, no heavy infantry (termi's or equivalent), no heavy tanks (land raiders or equivalent, indeed they have nothing with any armour facing of 14), no long range weapons other than the Exorcist, no super-characters other than the saint (and no non-special character saint for that matter), no snipers, no skyfire, no fast vehicles, almost no las’ or plasma weapons (no lascannons and only a few plasma pistols) and no alien weaponry or devices (or grav guns, conversion beamers etc), only 1 deep-strike unit (fast attack), 1 scout unit (also fast attack), nothing that changes the FoC or deployment, nothing that effects theirs or their enemy reserve rolls...etc etc.
As I've just tried to outline fixing Sisters would be easy, add all this and a plastic Sisters box (and plastic penitent engine) too = people will buy them = profit. :)

[Andrew Thomas]

A "Living Saint," as a build-a-bear IC, is sorely lacking in the forces of the Imperium. Needs to be a beast with lots of Faith, and options that make them make sense as a solo unit or as a kingmaker unit, like DE ICs, Haemunculi especially.

[helline9]

there does seem to be growing evidence that GW will redo sisters soon

[This Dave]

Since someone mentioned they are basically Stormtroopers/Militarum Tempestus in Power Armor maybe give the a version of the Orders system to represent their acts of faith/insane fanaticism?

[Harley]

Let’s not forget that Sisters especially the Witchhunters codex was basically the precursor blueprint for the Grey knights, Blood angels and Black Templars rules to name a few (and arguably much of the current Inquisition). Many of the Sisters old rules have been looted to buff these space marines’ variants to make them as competitive and loved as we see today, but let’s not dwell on what was. My point here is the proof is in the pudding, Sisters where a strong, popular army and can be again.
...So let’s move on.
The old Sisters’ rules have been reassigned to other armies so we have to come up with new rules/ abilities for the Adepta Sororitas, that's fine. With the way 6th/ 7th is it would actually be easier than it was back then. And while we are at it we need to make Adepta Sororitas far more distinct from other Imperial forces. The common view of Sisters is that they are just female space marines as an indication, when in fact they are more like Imperial Guard storm troopers in power armour than Space marines.
Point here is that there is a lot of misconceptions about what are Sisters, when there shouldn't be. In my mind Sisters are arguably the army that most clearly reflects the brutality of the 40k setting especially the crushing harshness of the Imperial regime. With new rules and some new units they could be used to show this like no other army could; units such imperial cultists (cheap unit), tortured prisoners (affects enemy morale) and the Incarcerator (an anti-psyker containment vehicle) as some simple suggestions as well as a heavier emphasis on Repentia, Arco-flagellants and Penitent engines.
Sisters are the brute force, the SS to both the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition with links to the Black ships; add all of this more into their design and you have a dark, gruesome, unique feel that sets them apart from other Imperial armies.
As for the sisters themselves make Eviscerators an unrestricted melee weapon (so any squad leader/ IC can take it) again and add Condemner boltguns (unrestricted) to special weapons.
In their story Sisters are always in the defense of something; either Ecclesiastical personnel, temples or relics so make them a defensive based army with a reduced cost for fortifications, access to suppression shields (4++ sv) and Sister Hospitallers (IC's that grant Feel no pain) . Having a faith point system based on how much they are resisting the enemy could be appropriate here too (like a defensive version of Dark Eldar 'power from pain' rule based on Sisters passing Morale/ Pinning/ Deny the witch tests caused by the opponent). Oh and they need to add in Repressors (a cross between a Chimera and a Rhino with a Siege shield) & Vindicators, also make Penitent engines more than just a over-costed, ineffective melee Sentinel with less deployment options (an armoured Sentinel has more armour btw) and reduce the cost of everything!

Finally to fix the deny the witch problem; let every Sisters squad count as mastery level 1 when calculating Deny the Witch tests.

If anyone thinks that this is too giving Sisters too much advantage remember that they have huge flaws; no psykers, no Monstrous creatures, no flyers, no heavy infantry (termi's or equivalent), no heavy tanks (land raiders or equivalent, indeed they have nothing with any armour facing of 14), no long range weapons other than the Exorcist, no super-characters other than the saint (and no non-special character saint for that matter), no snipers, no skyfire, no fast vehicles, almost no las’ or plasma weapons (no lascannons and only a few plasma pistols) and no alien weaponry or devices (or grav guns, conversion beamers etc), only 1 deep-strike unit (fast attack), 1 scout unit (also fast attack), nothing that changes the FoC or deployment, nothing that effects theirs or their enemy reserve rolls...etc etc.
As I've just tried to outline fixing Sisters would be easy, add all this and a plastic Sisters box (and plastic penitent engine) too = people will buy them = profit. :)

This post is pretty spot on.

Since someone mentioned they are basically Stormtroopers/Militarum Tempestus in Power Armor maybe give the a version of the Orders system to represent their acts of faith/insane fanaticism?

That's not a bad idea but there was nothing wrong with the way faith worked in the Witch Hunter codex and I wish I would go back tothat. Yes it was very powerful but the sisters needed it. You never ever see the contending in events anymore, let alone getting top 10 or even 20.

They should have 3-6 faith powers which any squad can choose to use, once, at the beginning of their turn which last until their next turn. They should be weapons have rending, armor save is invulnerable, unit is fearless and regroups, unit gains fleet, or unit gains furiouscharge. No faith points. Just each unit that is faithful can use 1 faith ability a turn. Maybe if they fail they fall back, idk. Something that makes them more useful.

[waghorn41]

I've collected Sisters since 1997 when my kids first discovered Warhammer. Got 4k+ points at the last organisation I did but the WD 'codex' and digital whatever (I haven't got that) may have altered the count slightly. Still got a good few models awaiting painting but have stopped playing as GW keep messing up the list and it no longer makes much sense. Been waiting for some new models for a very long time and I honestly don't think GW are inclined to produce any - not enough Sisters players? of course not given the lack of variety and very high cost of an all metal army without a decent codex. As for some of the Sisters novels it's clear the author has never read any of the 'fluff' written by GW - and before some wit suggests that if I think that of the current reading material I should write something I already have a first chapter written and am working on a full novel. Plastic Sisters models? dream on, I'd be down my local store like a shot if they became available :)

[Mud Duck]

Plastic everything? Yes please!
I would also like to see the return of the Red Redemption with all their flamey goodness.
Units that I think would fit in, suicide bombers, original Imperial Guard rules. Local parishioners/civilians, deepstrike no scatter, lowish bs ws, booby traps area terrain maybe a couple other fun little rules. A Lone Wolf IC (seeker) or squad similar to the Repentia from Inquisitor, a single sister seeking out an artifact, or a particular enemy or something along those lines. Can be kited out with equipment not found in the present codex, thunder hammers storm shields etc.
Maybe a Build-a-Saint, just for the Lols?

[Dalleron]

Just give me back the old codex rules costed appropriately/sanely. The rules have been rubbish in the last 2 "codex", and I use that term loosely. Both my cannoness models are illegal now, ie they have jump packs. I can deal with the limit of bolter flamer melta. it is their army. If i cared to be competitive I'd fit a flier or some AA in there somehow through allies because you can now a days. Im even fine with the models that I have.

[Andrew Thomas]

A prayer that gives full BS Snapshots would solve a lot of this faction's AA woes. As would allowing vehicles to benefit from Acts of Faith. Also, giving the Immolator more modern weapon options (Melta Cannon, Flamestorm Cannon, maybe even a Vulcan) would be nice.

[Harley]

Maybe a Build-a-Saint, just for the Lols?

This would be a lot of fun!


Just give me back the old codex rules costed appropriately/sanely. The rules have been rubbish in the last 2 "codex", and I use that term loosely. Both my cannoness models are illegal now, ie they have jump packs. I can deal with the limit of bolter flamer melta. it is their army. If i cared to be competitive I'd fit a flier or some AA in there somehow through allies because you can now a days. Im even fine with the models that I have.

My thoughts as well. I really miss the Witch Hunter codex. Besides Skyfire, it would crush armies today and was a lot of fun.


A prayer that gives full BS Snapshots would solve a lot of this faction's AA woes. As would allowing vehicles to benefit from Acts of Faith. Also, giving the Immolator more modern weapon options (Melta Cannon, Flamestorm Cannon, maybe even a Vulcan) would be nice.

Good ideas!

[helline9]

Having had sisters from before Codex: Witchhunters and been rather ....'ahem' disappointed with their recent rules, I've taken it upon myself to write my own Sisters codex. I'm in the process of updating it from 6th to 7th but it near complete, when it is i plan on sending it to GW to show them what a Sisters codex could/ should be.
If anyone, or indeed the Bols community at large would be interested in reviewing it id be happy to post it to get any constructive feedback.

An quick example of one of the units: the Penitent engine.
When one of the Ecclesiachy’s own fails in their duties so badly that even Arco-flagellation isn't enough they may get interred into one of the soul destroying machinations of a vile Penitent Engine. Made locally from salvaged parts no two Penitent Engines are the same, the ‘pilot’ is mounted exposed on the front; their sins and guilt evident to all. A multitude of wires and chemical injectors are implanted into the ‘pilot’s’ spines and when they are not ripping through the ranks of their enemies lances of pain and images of guilt shoot directly into their brains reminding them of their sins. Part torture device, part battlefield monstrosity the Penitent engine is a giant conglomeration of an Arco-flagellant style ‘pilot’, Servitor parts, dreadnaught sized weaponry, a multitude of scrap-yard machinery and an unshakable faith in the God-Emperor. The cogitator abilities and repair function of its Servitor parts along with its ‘pilots’ tortured drive to repent means that the Penitent Engine will keep functioning well past when it should have been destroyed. Penitent Engines have been known to strive forward to enact the will of the God-Emperor even when riddled with blast holes and their limbs a twisted mess of Plas-steel and shredded hydraulic tubing dragging behind them.

Heavy Support

Penitent Engine Squadron………………………………..…….60 points

-------------- WS BS S I A F S R HP
Penitent Engine 4 2 5 4 4 11 11 10 3

Unit composition:
• 1 Penitent Engine
Unit type:
• Vehicle (Walker, Open topped)

Wargear:
• 2 Dreadnaught close combat weapons
• 2 Flamers (one on each arm)

Special rules:
• Fleet
• Move through cover
• Rampage
• ‘Battle Frenzy’
• ‘Unstoppable Rampage’
• It will not die

Options:
• The squadron may include up to an additional two Penitent Engines: ………… (+60pts per model)
• Each Penitent Engine can be upgraded with a: -Rosarius …………… (+25pts per model)

-‘Unstoppable rampage’: Penitent engines ignore any crew shaken and crew stunned results on the vehicle damage tables (but will still loose a Hull point for each glancing or penetrating hit inflicted).
-‘Battle-Frenzy’: for every unsaved wound a Penitent Engines inflict in close combat the Penitent Engine immediately makes an extra attack. These attacks do not generate attacks in the same way.

(If the army contains a Confessor as one of its HQ choices then Penitent engines can be taken as either Elites or Heavy support.)

If tried to stick to the concept of the unit while making it more fearsome and ...more intense. I also deliberately avoided increasing its armour values or giving it abilities like scout, Deep strike or infiltrate as i felt that they took away from intent of the unit. With the fluff that I've given it above i imagine many conversion models for Penitent engines.
(For those that are curious of what I've changed, my changes are: reduced cost, increased initiative to 4 (to have a change against dreadnoughts & equivalent), increased its attack potential with Rampage & re-adding back 'Battle-frenzy' (while less randomness than it had in the Witchhunter codex), added Fleet, Move through cover (for more tactical options) & It will not die with the option of giving it a 4++ save (to offset being open-topped with poor armour. Finally being able to take it as either an Elite or Heavy support frees up a lot of options for other units. )

[DrBored]

Having had sisters from before Codex: Witchhunters and been rather ....'ahem' disappointed with their recent rules, I've taken it upon myself to write my own Sisters codex. I'm in the process of updating it from 6th to 7th but it near complete, when it is i plan on sending it to GW to show them what a Sisters codex could/ should be.
If anyone, or indeed the Bols community at large would be interested in reviewing it id be happy to post it to get any constructive feedback.

An quick example of one of the units: the Penitent engine.
When one of the Ecclesiachy’s own fails in their duties so badly that even Arco-flagellation isn't enough they may get interred into one of the soul destroying machinations of a vile Penitent Engine. Made locally from salvaged parts no two Penitent Engines are the same, the ‘pilot’ is mounted exposed on the front; their sins and guilt evident to all. A multitude of wires and chemical injectors are implanted into the ‘pilot’s’ spines and when they are not ripping through the ranks of their enemies lances of pain and images of guilt shoot directly into their brains reminding them of their sins. Part torture device, part battlefield monstrosity the Penitent engine is a giant conglomeration of an Arco-flagellant style ‘pilot’, Servitor parts, dreadnaught sized weaponry, a multitude of scrap-yard machinery and an unshakable faith in the God-Emperor. The cogitator abilities and repair function of its Servitor parts along with its ‘pilots’ tortured drive to repent means that the Penitent Engine will keep functioning well past when it should have been destroyed. Penitent Engines have been known to strive forward to enact the will of the God-Emperor even when riddled with blast holes and their limbs a twisted mess of Plas-steel and shredded hydraulic tubing dragging behind them.

Heavy Support

Penitent Engine Squadron………………………………..…….60 points

WS BS S I A F S R HP
Penitent Engine 4 2 5 4 4 11 11 10 3

Unit composition:
• 1 Penitent Engine
Unit type:
• Vehicle (Walker, Open topped)

Wargear:
• 2 Dreadnaught close combat weapons
• 2 Flamers (one on each arm)

Special rules:
• Fleet
• Move through cover
• Rampage
• ‘Battle Frenzy’
• ‘Unstoppable Rampage’
• It will not die

Options:
• The squadron may include up to an additional two Penitent Engines: ………… (+60pts per model)
• Each Penitent Engine can be upgraded with a: -Rosarius …………… (+25pts per model)

-‘Unstoppable rampage’: Penitent engines ignore any crew shaken and crew stunned results on the vehicle damage tables.
-‘Battle-Frenzy’: for every unsaved wound a Penitent Engines inflict in close combat the Penitent Engine immediately makes an extra attack. These attacks do not generate attacks in the same way.

(If the army contains a Confessor as one of its HQ choices then Penitent engines can be taken as either Elites or Heavy support.)

If tried to stick to the concept of the unit while making it more fearsome and ...more intense. I also deliberately avoided increasing its armour values or giving it abilities like scout, Deep strike or infiltrate as i felt that they took away from intent of the unit. With the fluff that I've given it above i imagine many conversion models for Penitent engines.

I don't think it needs IWND or an Invul save.

I think it just needs options to take either two heavy flamers (base) or two Melta Guns (+5 points per), and maaaaaybe something like Zealot and/or Crusader.

[helline9]

Thank you for your feed back. :)
As a vehicle zealot wouldn't work (other than re-rolling to hit which it doesn't need or is probably a bit too OP) and crusader doesn't give it much advantage either (that it isn't already getting from Fleet/ move through cover).

Probably the main problem with the Penitent engine is keeping it alive, it is literally the easiest vehicle to kill in the game (killer kans, Sentinels & Land speeder storms, which are the closest things too it, are all harder to destroy for one reason or another). The fact that it has to get into close combat to be effective makes it even more exposed. ...thus the reason for MTC, IWND & option for invul save.

As for the metaguns, i thought about that but when it can carve anything it can catch into tiny pieces what would the meltaguns be for? Don't get me wrong giving it weapon options other than the flamer would be interesting but meltaguns have short effective range which it already achieves through close combat and any longer range weapon choices like heavy bolters/ autocannons etc would be conflict with the idea of the units purpose.

[Halollet]

What they need and what I want... hmmm..

A lot of anti-psyker rules and equipment.

Like a relic that any psyker in range that rolls doubles when manifesting a power suffers perils of the warp.

Anti-psyker grenades

New elite unit, Witch Hunter Squad. Unlimited Condemer boltgun shots with the sniper rule! Infiltrate and stealth with a 4+ save.

Sister scouts would be another troops option. 4+ save, infiltrate, and still take 2 weapons, etc.

I also like the "cultists" idea. 4-6 points a piece, lasguns, las pistols/CCW, options for flamers/storm bolters.

I think Acts of faith should be universal and able to fire off every turn. Or have some that are universal and others have specific.

Retributors should have an act of faith that allows them to have skyfire that turn. BS 4, skyfire multimeltas are scary! :)

Cannoness could have a bunch of acts of faith that super boost the squad that she's with. And also huge bonuses to fighting psykers in challenges. Like gains perfered enemy, armourbane, and flesh bane against psyker characters.

Shield of faith could also give them a 4++ save against wounds and glancing/penetrating hits caused by psychic powers. Including attacks from force weapons.

Someone mentioned Repentia as troops with an HQ choice selected. Yes please!

Repentia with more weapon options would be good too. A mix of chain weapons and I5 would make it really neat to play. Allow them to take 2 chainswords or a heavy chainsword or an eviserator for different point costs.

Allow sisters to take a land Raider Redeemer.

Make the Immolator a fast vehicle.

Celestians just need a 2+ save; they all have artificer armour. Give them bolter, bolt pistol, and CCW as base equipment. Allow 4 models to take weapons like power weapon/fist, storm shield, lightning claws, special weapons, heavy weapons, etc. Make them tough and versatile. Now that's an elite choice!

Have a Psykerhammer, like a daemon hammer, but works against psykers!

I like the 0-5 Hospitallers in the army. Don't make them characters but allow them to give the unit feel no pain.

Have Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors as an HQ choice. Maybe can't count as warlord?

Or maybe have some other the other Ordos availible. Like Order Sicarius (that could enable 0-1 assassins), Ordo Scriptorum that gives mission bonuses.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

[Andrew Thomas]

What they need and what I want... hmmm..

A lot of anti-psyker rules and equipment.

Like a relic that any psyker in range that rolls doubles when manifesting a power suffers perils of the warp.

Anti-psyker grenades

New elite unit, Witch Hunter Squad. Unlimited Condemer boltgun shots with the sniper rule! Infiltrate and stealth with a 4+ save.

Sister scouts would be another troops option. 4+ save, infiltrate, and still take 2 weapons, etc.

I also like the "cultists" idea. 4-6 points a piece, lasguns, las pistols/CCW, options for flamers/storm bolters.

I think Acts of faith should be universal and able to fire off every turn. Or have some that are universal and others have specific.

Retributors should have an act of faith that allows them to have skyfire that turn. BS 4, skyfire multimeltas are scary! :)

Cannoness could have a bunch of acts of faith that super boost the squad that she's with. And also huge bonuses to fighting psykers in challenges. Like gains perfered enemy, armourbane, and flesh bane against psyker characters.

Shield of faith could also give them a 4++ save against wounds and glancing/penetrating hits caused by psychic powers. Including attacks from force weapons.

Someone mentioned Repentia as troops with an HQ choice selected. Yes please!

Repentia with more weapon options would be good too. A mix of chain weapons and I5 would make it really neat to play. Allow them to take 2 chainswords or a heavy chainsword or an eviserator for different point costs.

Allow sisters to take a land Raider Redeemer.

Make the Immolator a fast vehicle.

Celestians just need a 2+ save; they all have artificer armour. Give them bolter, bolt pistol, and CCW as base equipment. Allow 4 models to take weapons like power weapon/fist, storm shield, lightning claws, special weapons, heavy weapons, etc. Make them tough and versatile. Now that's an elite choice!

Have a Psykerhammer, like a daemon hammer, but works against psykers!

I like the 0-5 Hospitallers in the army. Don't make them characters but allow them to give the unit feel no pain.

Have Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors as an HQ choice. Maybe can't count as warlord?

Or maybe have some other the other Ordos availible. Like Order Sicarius (that could enable 0-1 assassins), Ordo Scriptorum that gives mission bonuses.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Forcing Perils would be counterintuitive; I'd lean towards more DtW buffs, as well as relevant Pariah rules (counting as Psykers for DtW purposes and/or directly penalizing psychic tests). I would try to avoid anything that directly parrots another Codex. I still believe that you should play toward a short-ranged tactical bias, as this faction tends to pursue its targets into tighter areas than armies like Tau or AM would really be comfortable in.

[Harley]

Forcing Perils would be counterintuitive; I'd lean towards more DtW buffs, as well as relevant Pariah rules (counting as Psykers for DtW purposes and/or directly penalizing psychic tests). I would try to avoid anything that directly parrots another Codex. I still believe that you should play toward a short-ranged tactical bias, as this faction tends to pursue its targets into tighter areas than armies like Tau or AM would really be comfortable in.

But DTW cannot be buffed for non-offensive powers, so Adamantium Will is useless against most Psychic forces.

Sisters need better ways to actually KILL enemy psykers such as "force" type weapons and instant death dealing. Currently they just have no good way of killing Daemon Princes except massed melta shots which are useless if the Prince is flying.

[Andrew Thomas]

Forcing Perils would be counterintuitive; I'd lean towards more DtW buffs, as well as relevant Pariah rules (counting as Psykers for DtW purposes and/or directly penalizing psychic tests). I would try to avoid anything that directly parrots another Codex. I still believe that you should play toward a short-ranged tactical bias, as this faction tends to pursue its targets into tighter areas than armies like Tau or AM would really be comfortable in.


But DTW cannot be buffed for non-offensive powers, so Adamantium Will is useless against most Psychic forces.

Sisters need better ways to actually KILL enemy psykers such as "force" type weapons and instant death dealing. Currently they just have no good way of killing Daemon Princes except massed melta shots which are useless if the Prince is flying.
Emphasis added to demonstrate how I'd deal with blessings/conjurations, e.g. forcing 6s for all close psychic tests.

Also, as I said before, an Act of Faith that granted full BS Snapshots could easily deal with flyers. Of course, they could give Seraphim the option of using Skyfire, as that isn't a huge stretch. I just don't see Force weapons, in of themselves, being used en masse by Sisters, as they really aren't a Psyker-heavy list. Now, invulnerable save hosing is an established theme for them, so autowounding daemons is probably still their primary method for dealing with them, although again, tactical bias is important in getting the feel of the faction right, so there shouldn't be obvious solutions to foes they aren't actively fielded against.

[Harley]

It would be great if jump infantry could have a skyfire mode if they don't use their jump mode in the movement or assualt.

[daboarder]

It would be great if jump infantry could have a skyfire mode if they don't use their jump mode in the movement or assualt.

they should straight up be allowed to assualt fliers...would be so cool

[This Dave]

they should straight up be allowed to assualt fliers...would be so cool

Somehow I see that as an Ork rule rather than one for the Sisters. :)

[Andrew Thomas]

Somehow I see that as an Ork rule rather than one for the Sisters. :) idk, nigh-suicidal tactical decisions are just the thing I'd expect from an army of zealots.

[Darren Richardson]

I also like the "cultists" idea. 4-6 points a piece, lasguns, las pistols/CCW, options for flamers/storm bolters.

I think they had these in 2nd/3rd edition, I seem to remember figures for them....

Yep 2nd had rules for them, Frateris Miltia Bands....

[Harley]

One problem I have always experienced with Sisters of Battle are that they are almost too good at making all comers lists. They do extremely well against average armies such as Space Marines by presenting better efficiency in general tactical rolls. This works well until they face an army which overwhelms them significantly in a single combat roll and they are unable to cope. While this is true of any army, Sisters have no trump card, no true death stars and no way of maneuvering around an extremely difficult situation like this because they are so efficient.

Imagine them as an extremely fuel efficient car. Given good conditions on a highway, it's functions excellently. But take that same car and put it on a muddy road full of pot holes or in a blizzard and it begins to fall apart. There are situations where efficiency is actually a liability and weakness due to lack of power. 40k unfortunately rewards playing to your opponent's weaknesses and hoping they do not have a hard counter to your powerful yet inefficient list.

[Austin Becht]

One of the armies I have always liked since I got into 40k in 2008 was the Sisters. Them, Necrons, and Imperial Guard were and still are my favorite armies ascetically. I have always wanted to start Sisters, but the cost of just a single squad is preposterous, if not abhorring, especially to a high school student who is only now going to college and has no independent source of income. Plus the models are metal...and I have had horrible experiences with metal models, especially when I was playing Fantasy Dwarves the year earlier (so many metal dwarf Hammerers rolling down hills!), which puts me off even more. If GW released them in plastic, even if they were done just like Grey Knights where a box of 5 made any of the basic units and costs $50 USD. Then give them access to the Redeemer Land Raider, maybe the Stormraven, or the Valkyrie, or even give them a flier of their own (Hell, one that looks a lot like the DA Flier would fit well into the Sisters ascetics). And a more available army book would be nice. Even if it was a reprint of the current crappy rules I'd buy it! I don't own an iPad, or any device that I can get the digital editions on for that matter (which I suspect is half the reason they didn't get much of a bite, even considering the WD rules as well.), and when those rules were released in WD it was always a decision whether to but the WD for a new squad with my handful of money. What is really crushing the Sisters is not that they are unpopular or have bad rules, but more because of the cost of the individual models, units, and the army as a whole. That's my two cents anyways, considering that is the reason I will never be starting Sisters until they are redone...if they are ever redone.

On the subject of plastic Sisters though, I did see some good conversions from Dark Eldar Kabalite Warriors and random bits. But my conversion skills are horrendous, and while good, they just don't have the same feel as the real Sister models.

[JMichael]

Nice to see other people so enthusiastic about our Sisters!
I started playing/collecting them when they first came out in 2nd edition.
They are even featured in the Dawn of War Soulstorm game! I would love to see a more robust HQ section and please include Ephrael Stern! More options and wargear to also help different Sisters armies look and play differently.
I don't mind the 1 type of Troops, but would like to see HQ's 'unlocking' others as troops (Like Ephrael Stern makes Seraphim Troops, etc).
Great idea on the Exorcist Skyfire option.

[John Bower]

I've still got an old SoB codex, which when you read it and some of the old SM statlines makes you realise how much the Canon has been re-written to suit their 'anti-girl' stance. Take Marines, Scouts used to be WS/BS 4 but S & T were both 3, because (wait for it) they weren't wearing power armour, while Sisters used to be T4 and were S3 only because they had no 'Black Carapace' to enhance their interface with power armour. Since then Marines somehow got changed to 7' (some say 10') Gorillas in suits while the Sisters got to be IG with armour on.

[chicop76]

One problem I have always experienced with Sisters of Battle are that they are almost too good at making all comers lists. They do extremely well against average armies such as Space Marines by presenting better efficiency in general tactical rolls. This works well until they face an army which overwhelms them significantly in a single combat roll and they are unable to cope. While this is true of any army, Sisters have no trump card, no true death stars and no way of maneuvering around an extremely difficult situation like this because they are so efficient.

Imagine them as an extremely fuel efficient car. Given good conditions on a highway, it's functions excellently. But take that same car and put it on a muddy road full of pot holes or in a blizzard and it begins to fall apart. There are situations where efficiency is actually a liability and weakness due to lack of power. 40k unfortunately rewards playing to your opponent's weaknesses and hoping they do not have a hard counter to your powerful yet inefficient list.

Thanks to Matt Damn Ward. I agree with this statement. People always dismiss sisters, until they lose due to melta and flamers spam. Only thing I like about them now is that we can spam more melta and flamers now, not to mention take more Immolaters.

Who can complain about having an army of veteran guardsmen with a 3+ save, although now you're paying 3 points for a better save than just 1 point. Any way they are very similar to old Tau in my opinion. Tau before the gear buffs, ethereal buffs, and riptides. However what is interesting is you can lump grey knights with them and do things like throw priest in a few knight squads. I think greyknigts or guard allies still seem a valid way to level the playing field, especially since you can now take marine and greyknigts as battle brothers now.

[DaveTycho]

Sisters are supposed to religious fanatics right? I'd like to see more of that approach, especially with more of a influence from modern day fanatics. I reckon it would be awesome to see some sister driving their rhino packed with demo charges into enemy lines chanting "God-Emperor is great!!". Or maybe instead of burning heretics, they should be slitting their throats and broadcast the footage across the Imperium via astropath. Or maybe they could do some roadside bombs like from cities of death, or infiltrating suicide teams that work similar to Space Wolf Lone Wolves.

[Digitarii]

Sisters are supposed to religious fanatics right? I'd like to see more of that approach, especially with more of a influence from modern day fanatics. I reckon it would be awesome to see some sister driving their rhino packed with demo charges into enemy lines chanting "God-Emperor is great!!". Or maybe instead of burning heretics, they should be slitting their throats and broadcast the footage across the Imperium via astropath. Or maybe they could do some roadside bombs like from cities of death, or infiltrating suicide teams that work similar to Space Wolf Lone Wolves.

Not this. The Sisters' novels "Faith and Fire" and "Hammer and Anvil" have the best portrayal of the Sister's mentality that I have encountered, and "religious fanatic" doesn't cover it. They are warriors of faith. A lot of the "religious fanatics" you have described are brainwashed to the point of being willing to sacrifice themselves without any thought. Based on my readings of the novels, the various codices [including the Tempestus Militarum], Those Schola Progeny that show a remarkable faith are picked out to become Sisters/Ecclesiarchy. They may be willing to die for the Emperor, but they are not willing to throw away their lives wastefully.

As far as what I would like to see in a Sister's revamp, The Avenger Fighter as a flyer would not be amiss. An additional Troop type would be welcomed, as would a revamp of the Penitent Engine. Rules wise, I think they should get bonuses to Deny the Witch.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Not this. The Sisters' novels "Faith and Fire" and "Hammer and Anvil" have the best portrayal of the Sister's mentality that I have encountered, and "religious fanatic" doesn't cover it.Agreed. One of the interesting parts of the Sisters, to me, is the juxtaposition of them alongside the more fanatical Ecclesiarchy.

[Harley]

If I could draw a parallel with them, they are less fanatical and more like Paladins. They are pragmatic but persistent in their faith. They won't foolishly throw their lives away for the Emperor but they also won't hesitate to do so if the need arrises.

[DaveTycho]

Not this. The Sisters' novels "Faith and Fire" and "Hammer and Anvil" have the best portrayal of the Sister's mentality that I have encountered, and "religious fanatic" doesn't cover it. They are warriors of faith. A lot of the "religious fanatics" you have described are brainwashed to the point of being willing to sacrifice themselves without any thought. Based on my readings of the novels, the various codices [including the Tempestus Militarum], Those Schola Progeny that show a remarkable faith are picked out to become Sisters/Ecclesiarchy. They may be willing to die for the Emperor, but they are not willing to throw away their lives wastefully.

What's wrong with this approach? I'm not trying to say that the Sisters have to go completely to extreme fanaticism but something along these lines would make the Sisters game style much more different than guardsmen or space marines. Right now they are either weaker versions of space marines, or better armoured guardsmen without the numbers or big guns. The Witchhunters codex done a great job adding the quasi religious elements in, but they don't have a distinct playstyle of their own.

By the way the tactics used by modern day fundamentalists/terrorists ain't unique to them. The French resistance used these same tactics in WW2 and the Afghans against the Soviets. Hell, even the very religious Bajorans in Star Trek DS9 used these same tactics and the series never glossed over these tactics. The only difference is the motivation: whether it's for god or freedom or hatred.

The Imperial Creed is supposed to be extremely intolerant, and is supposed to make the worst religious fanatics of our time look like hippes in comparison. So why can't that be shown in the most religious branch of the Imperium's armies? Sisters being fundamentalists doesn't mean they have to be stupid soldiers. It just makes them stand out more; something different to guard or marines

[daboarder]

What's wrong with this approach? I'm not trying to say that the Sisters have to go completely to extreme fanaticism but something along these lines would make the Sisters game style much more different than guardsmen or space marines. Right now they are either weaker versions of space marines, or better armoured guardsmen without the numbers or big guns. The Witchhunters codex done a great job adding the quasi religious elements in, but they don't have a distinct playstyle of their own.

By the way the tactics used by modern day fundamentalists/terrorists ain't unique to them. The French resistance used these same tactics in WW2 and the Afghans against the Soviets. Hell, even the very religious Bajorans in Star Trek DS9 used these same tactics and the series never glossed over these tactics. The only difference is the motivation: whether it's for god or freedom or hatred.

The Imperial Creed is supposed to be extremely intolerant, and is supposed to make the worst religious fanatics of our time look like hippes in comparison. So why can't that be shown in the most religious branch of the Imperium's armies? Sisters being fundamentalists doesn't mean they have to be stupid soldiers. It just makes them stand out more; something different to guard or marines

it doesnt work for a very ismple reason. Terrorists and similar militant groups operate the way they do, not because any BS religious fantacism, but because that is the most effective way for a small poorly armed force to achieve their strategic goals (be they religiously motivated or not) against a vastly superior force.

Conversely sisters ARE the superior force, they have the backing of potentially the most powerful organization in the imperium, I mean there is a reason that they rock armour and weapons that are so rare usually only space marines can get them (and those are chapter relics)

[DaveTycho]

it doesnt work for a very ismple reason. Terrorists and similar militant groups operate the way they do, not because any BS religious fantacism, but because that is the most effective way for a small poorly armed force to achieve their strategic goals (be they religiously motivated or not) against a vastly superior force.

Conversely sisters ARE the superior force, they have the backing of potentially the most powerful organization in the imperium, I mean there is a reason that they rock armour and weapons that are so rare usually only space marines can get them (and those are chapter relics)

I agree the sisters have the backing and the equipment, but the point I'm trying to make is that I believe it would make the Sisters stand out more if their playstyle actually reflected fundamentalist mindset. Leave the holy warrior style to the space marines. Leave the conventional military tactics to the guard. Sisters are an army of the Ecclsiarchy and I feel that how they play- not just how they look or some special rules that give you buffs if you pray hard enough, or some weird quasi-religious unit- needs to reflect that style. I'm not saying that Sisters have to use terrorist methods to fight, but they don't have the numbers of the guard, nor do they have the superhuman endurance/ butt-kicking of the space marines either. They are somewhere inbetween both but can't do the job of either. That is why I thought that it would be interesting to see them play with a style similar to modern day fanatics. It doesn't have to be literal, Sisters could be the army that could mix conventional military tactics with terrorist tactics; the eye for tactics of a soldier with the absolute conviction of a zealot. Why is it ok for stormtoopers or marine infiltrators to go on a suicidal mission knowing they most likely won't survive, yet do so anyway because of the mission/honour/duty/your buddies depend on it/the fate of the war depends on it; yet if sisters do the same thing it's not ok because they believe that martyring themselves for the Emperor is a good thing?

[daboarder]

I agree the sisters have the backing and the equipment, but the point I'm trying to make is that I believe it would make the Sisters stand out more if their playstyle actually reflected fundamentalist mindset. Leave the holy warrior style to the space marines. Leave the conventional military tactics to the guard. Sisters are an army of the Ecclsiarchy and I feel that how they play- not just how they look or some special rules that give you buffs if you pray hard enough, or some weird quasi-religious unit- needs to reflect that style. I'm not saying that Sisters have to use terrorist methods to fight, but they don't have the numbers of the guard, nor do they have the superhuman endurance/ butt-kicking of the space marines either. They are somewhere inbetween both but can't do the job of either. That is why I thought that it would be interesting to see them play with a style similar to modern day fanatics. It doesn't have to be literal, Sisters could be the army that could mix conventional military tactics with terrorist tactics; the eye for tactics of a soldier with the absolute conviction of a zealot. Why is it ok for stormtoopers or marine infiltrators to go on a suicidal mission knowing they most likely won't survive, yet do so anyway because of the mission/honour/duty/your buddies depend on it/the fate of the war depends on it; yet if sisters do the same thing it's not ok because they believe that martyring themselves for the Emperor is a good thing?

but they DO fight based on the tenets of their faith. Thats the holy trinity of flame, fusion and bolt.

I think whats happening here is your basing a lot of what you think sisters should be based on the current codex, may I suggest reading the 3rd edition codex (inquisition aside) the sisters were a mutch more unique an coherent force under that codex than they currently are.

Hell I miss those days, where the hardest character in the game was a tooled up cannoness and a sisters player who knew what they were doing was as bad as facing a good dark eldar player (Widely considered an auto lose by most armies if the DE player was a veteran)

Personally I'd like to see faith given the HUGE boost it needsm taking it back to its 3rd ed power level.

I'd like to see the armoury expanded, with sister unique variants of flamer, melta and bolt weapons. use unique rules combinations like torrent, blast meltas, and higher range/rate of fire bolt weapons. give em back a bunch of leadership bonuses (seriously these guys are mentaly tougher than most space marines,) and more access to arceotech. llike wider artificer armour, combi-weapons etc....

[DaveTycho]

but they DO fight based on the tenets of their faith. Thats the holy trinity of flame, fusion and bolt.

I think whats happening here is your basing a lot of what you think sisters should be based on the current codex, may I suggest reading the 3rd edition codex (inquisition aside) the sisters were a mutch more unique an coherent force under that codex than they currently are.

Hell I miss those days, where the hardest character in the game was a tooled up cannoness and a sisters player who knew what they were doing was as bad as facing a good dark eldar player (Widely considered an auto lose by most armies if the DE player was a veteran)

Personally I'd like to see faith given the HUGE boost it needsm taking it back to its 3rd ed power level.

I'd like to see the armoury expanded, with sister unique variants of flamer, melta and bolt weapons. use unique rules combinations like torrent, blast meltas, and higher range/rate of fire bolt weapons. give em back a bunch of leadership bonuses (seriously these guys are mentaly tougher than most space marines,) and more access to arceotech. llike wider artificer armour, combi-weapons etc....

I have that codex. I agree that codex is characterful and showed the sisters as a "war of faith" army more than it does now. I'll admit that I've never played sisters, and I have no real qualifications on "what should be fixed" as an army either. I'm just putting out some ideas what on what I think could improve the sisters from a general standpoint. I'm not suggesting the sisters faith be retconned or altered, just emphasised in a more grimdark way. And there s nothing more grimdark than extreme fanaticism. I'm just shocked that no one else sees this obvious connection.

[Harley]

I don't think either of you is entirely right or wrong. One important point though is that Sisters need to be portrayed as something other than crazed fanatics, otherwise they risk being dismissed and not taken seriously. There are enough jokes about that time of the month and angry women. They need a personality and character to the army which inspires respect and appreciation.

However, the idea of using guerrilla tactics seems great and it's something that 40k doesn't use enough anymore since mines are gone, Marbo is gone and Astra Militarum are essentially Codex: Cadians. I could see it used with Dominion, Celestians and Seraphim to great effect. But it needs to be smart tactics, not just sneaky. Give them infiltrate and ap3 for their first shots, or rending, or something...

Either that or they need to make Sisters the ultimate mechanized (they kind of already are) and Napoleonic force. Some kind of buff when in units of 10+ in base to base contact with each other, so that huge ranks of them can march up the field would be fun.

[This Dave]

Using those tactics isn't a sign of religious fanaticism, it's a sign of military desperation. I could see groups like Fratris Militia using them as they're generally poorly trained at best and badly equipped goons stirred to religious fervor. The Sororitas themselves have the religious fervor but they also have the best gear and training the Imperium can provide, which is actually pretty impressive. Why waste time setting roadside bombs to maybe kill a heretic when you can march in and show the Emperor's displeasure with Bolter and Flame?

At minimum I feel all Sororitas units should have Zealot like Preachers have. They should be at LEAST as fanatical as some good from the Ecclesiarchy, especially as every one of them trained at the Schola Progenium. Between their armor and this it should give them good staying power.

Actual Acts of Faith are a little trickier though. The easiest thing would be to give them a cross between a Preacher's War Hymns and the AM's Orders. Maybe each unit could make a Leadership test at the start of the turn and if they pass they can reroll to hits or armor saves or charge distance or such. And maybe the Canoness could have the ability to work units into an even greater frenzy, giving them things like Feel No Pain, Relentless, or enhanced Deny the Witch with a Leadership roll. This gives them some character without making them too powerful as they're still only human without overly complicating things.

I would like to see them get access to heavier vehicles like Land Raiders. I could see them done up like rolling cathedrals coming across the battlefield to bring the Emperor's justice. And maybe a return of the Fratris Militia, either like the Cultists or more likely like Conscripts. Cheaper bulk troops to hold objectives wipe the Sororitas are busy purging things.

[DarkLink]

Sisters of Battle are not a thinly veiled racist caricature of middle easterners. Simple as that.

[waghorn41]

I find this discussion really interesting as it mirrors what has been said for years but with added tweaks following revamps of other armies. Have to admit I never really liked the penitent engine, that said I scratchbuilt my own war-walker for fun. Hope you don't mind me adding a photo here; wrote up some rules for it too. Actually when the Exorcist was first mentioned in Codex:Chapter Approved it gave little detail except D6 missiles each turn so, yes, I scratchbuilt a couple of those with a 1950's B movie feel to them based on the old Rhino kit and of course when the Repressor appeard in the ForgeWorld book I scratchbuilt one of those as well based on the old Rhino.

[Charistoph]

Using those tactics isn't a sign of religious fanaticism, it's a sign of military desperation. I could see groups like Fratris Militia using them as they're generally poorly trained at best and badly equipped goons stirred to religious fervor. The Sororitas themselves have the religious fervor but they also have the best gear and training the Imperium can provide, which is actually pretty impressive. Why waste time setting roadside bombs to maybe kill a heretic when you can march in and show the Emperor's displeasure with Bolter and Flame?

Good points. Not all fanatics are terrorists, though often are in one way or another. Ask the Moors if they felt terrorized by the Spanish Inquisition. But I guess that depends on what you classify as terrorism.


At minimum I feel all Sororitas units should have Zealot like Preachers have. They should be at LEAST as fanatical as some good from the Ecclesiarchy, especially as every one of them trained at the Schola Progenium. Between their armor and this it should give them good staying power.

Too much as a standard. Being able to haul around a Priest like the IG used to have Commisars or as a general Act of Faith, would be interesting, though.


Actual Acts of Faith are a little trickier though. The easiest thing would be to give them a cross between a Preacher's War Hymns and the AM's Orders. Maybe each unit could make a Leadership test at the start of the turn and if they pass they can reroll to hits or armor saves or charge distance or such. And maybe the Canoness could have the ability to work units into an even greater frenzy, giving them things like Feel No Pain, Relentless, or enhanced Deny the Witch with a Leadership roll. This gives them some character without making them too powerful as they're still only human without overly complicating things.

Interesting idea. What if the Acts had levels, and a unit had to have a certain level of Faith in order to pull off such an Act, or at least make it easier to pull them off. For example a Pinning Act of Faith would be a Level 1, relatively easily used, but a 4++ Act would be a Level 3, and require a Cannoness, Veteran Sister, and a Banner in the unit to have a chance to pull off effectively.


I would like to see them get access to heavier vehicles like Land Raiders. I could see them done up like rolling cathedrals coming across the battlefield to bring the Emperor's justice. And maybe a return of the Fratris Militia, either like the Cultists or more likely like Conscripts. Cheaper bulk troops to hold objectives wipe the Sororitas are busy purging things.

Land Raiders, specifically, I think would be too much, but I could be talked in to it. They could use a Medium Tank, and they could also use a Heavy Transport, something even 13/13/13 and carry 20 would be nice if Redeemers don't become available.

[helline9]

I disagree, for while sisters have the backing of one of the most politically and financially powerful institutions in the universe they are still limited to standard imperial STC designs. To put it another way Space marines and the Adeptus mechanicus have access to ancient technology (land raiders are as old as imperial knights) but sisters only date back to the age of apostasy which limits their technology.

To play sisters (/ inquisition/ adeptus arbites ) is to look behind the veil of the front line, to see how the imperium actually works and it is built on common STC's. To have lots of unique vehicles would be counter to the position that sisters have in the story.

Knowing that they are limited to the best of common imperial designs and that they are the masters of the short range urban firefight; what i believe is that they should have is a way of making their rhino variants harder to kill rather than getting large new sisters only vehicles that are too bulky for city streets. Note that this doesn't have to be done by increasing armour only but could be done by other means such as adding a decent invulnerable save or a rule that states that they don't loose hull points from glancing hits or adding 'it will not die' or other such things/ combinations of.
What if sisters squads passed their 'shield of faith' & faith powers onto any vehicle they are transported in... even ally vehicles?

As for the flyer ...remember that the Ecclesiarchy (including sisters) is banned from having any navy of its own, i think this is best represented by sisters not having ANY flyers! Remember that in 7th ed they can use Valkyries/ vendettas now if you ally with guard or an inquisitor.

[daboarder]

I disagree, for while sisters have the backing of one of the most politically and financially powerful institutions in the universe they are still limited to standard imperial STC designs. To put it another way Space marines and the Adeptus mechanicus have access to ancient technology (land raiders are as old as imperial knights) but sisters only date back to the age of apostasy which limits their technology.

To play sisters (/ inquisition/ adeptus arbites ) is to look behind the veil of the front line, to see how the imperium actually works and it is built on common STC's. To have lots of unique vehicles would be counter to the position that sisters have in the story.

Knowing that they are limited to the best of common imperial designs and that they are the masters of the short range urban firefight; what i believe is that they should have is a way of making their rhino variants harder to kill rather than getting large new sisters only vehicles that are too bulky for city streets. Note that this doesn't have to be done by increasing armour only but could be done by other means such as adding a decent invulnerable save or a rule that states that they don't loose hull points from glancing hits or adding 'it will not die' or other such things/ combinations of.
What if sisters squads passed their 'shield of faith' & faith powers onto any vehicle they are transported in... even ally vehicles?

As for the flyer ...remember that the Ecclesiarchy (including sisters) is banned from having any navy of its own, i think this is best represented by sisters not having ANY flyers! Remember that in 7th ed they can use Valkyries/ vendettas now if you ally with guard or an inquisitor.

...........:eek:......:eek:

because they just found all that power armour and bolt weapons in the basement when they disposed vandire.....

[helline9]

lol, fair cop but bolters are common (think of how many bolt weapons are in imperial guard alone) and more than just marines have power armour (skitarii/ squats/ inquisition to name a few)

but yer you are right, for while the church could buy anything outside of the adeptus mechanicus or the space marines the adepta sororitas merging with the inquisition opens up a lot more avenues for the humble sisters in regards to gear... in theory having the inquisitorial seal on their requisition forms means they could have access to anything, possibly even grav-guns, conversion beamers, land speeders, whatever.

but for myself i like the idea of them being a peoples army with standard gear supported by millita rather than an army of soldiers with super equipment but yer that's just me.

[Houghten]

As I understand it, the reason the Sisters don't have access to Land Raiders is that the Emperor decreed them to be exclusively for the use of the Astartes during the Heresy because they were in short supply (possibly around the same time they were running out of power armour and created Mk5?) and that decree has never been repealed or overturned (though an Inquisitor can still say "give me one now or I'll firebomb your whole planet" because they have massive amounts of unchecked power), not because of anything related to the Age of Apostasy.

Also, given Sisters seem to be the only people who use Sabbat-pattern power armour and Godwyn-Deaz pattern bolters, that would indicate that they're the ones who have access to special, non-standard STC designs...

[helline9]

though an Inquisitor can still say "give me one now or I'll firebomb your whole planet"
lol, this made me giggle :)


Also, given Sisters seem to be the only people who use Sabbat-pattern power armour and Godwyn-Deaz pattern bolters, that would indicate that they're the ones who have access to special, non-standard STC designs...
the Sabbat-pattern and Godwyn-Deaz pattern is just world variants no different to mars/ ryza vehicle variants or cadia/ catachan lasgun variants
Funny thing is that if they make plastic sisters they would have to change the Sabbat pattern armour to something else because the Sabbat pattern armour doesn't work with plastic very well (due to the sleeves).

but yer I've already conceded the point in regards to non-standard gear

[DaveTycho]

I still can't see why everyone considers sisters+ religious fanaticism= a bad thing. I'm not implying they are Islamic nutjobs, yet these same nutjobs are very dangerous when well equipped and trained. An army of Islamic fundamentalists are overrunning the armed forces in Iraq right now. Imagine how dangerous they could be if they were equipped with power armour and bolt guns and armoured vehicles? This is what I feel how the sisters should be shown, fluff wise and game wise. Remember the Imperial Creed extremely intolerant and racist, and it actively promotes death to heretics/unbelievers and to purge anything that's not baseline human. The schola progenium doesn't just teach the sisters how to fight but also how to hate. I use modern terrorism and modern fundamentalism as examples because this I feel that it most closely exemplifies as a potential aggressive mindset that would be characterful for the sisters. Even if they are considered moderates from a 40K standpoint, from a modern standpoint they would be considered extremist. I'll put down some examples on what I mean:

1) Sisters defending sacred shrines or holy relics. A unit of sisters claim an objective. The player can then opt to declare that the objective is sacred to the unit. That unit then benefits from fearless, counter attack, stealth and/or shrouded, gets an invulnerable save, basically anything that makes the Sisters as hard as humanly possible to be removed from the objective. But, once this has been declared, because the objective is so sacred to the unit, and their faith, they can't move more than 6" from the objective for the rest of rest of the game, and must move/stay within 6" range of said objective if it is moved or somehow the unit is moved out of range.

2) A unit of Sisters beats down an enemy unit in combat. But simply killing the enemy may not be enough for the Sisters. They should be punished and humiliated for their crimes and heresy against the God-Emperor, and it may be more important to them to dish out some justice than fight a battle. To the Sisters a battlefield execution is the perfect way to show their enemies the power of the God-Emperor and to show what happens to those who defy Him. In game terms, this could be done by declaring that unit of Sisters, after wiping out an enemy unit in close combat, is going to ritually execute the survivors/ desecrate unclean corpses (through burning, head-chopping, impaling on spikes etc). For one full turn the unit can't move, shoot/run, assault, go to ground or count as holding objectives. Assuming the unit doesn't get wiped out by shooting, run away or get assaulted, the unit completes the execution, returns to normal, but the opposing player loses one VP per successful execution at the end of the game because the opposing army is so shocked by the disturbing nature of their comrades deaths.

3) A Sister's rhino is badly damaged, down to its last gull point, and there is a horde of Genestealers heading towards it. The driver knows she is dead, but her only concern is how many aliens she can kill before joining the Emperor in heaven. Prepared for such an eventuality, she sets off the explosives in the rhino, sending herself to heaven, while sending the Genestealers to hell. Sure, the rhino may be a ancient relic, but to the Sisters, it is better to use an ancient relic as a weapon one more glorious time than suffer a terrible desecration at the hands of aliens. In game terms you could simply declare that the rhino automatically suffers an explosion result with a full 6" radius, at the initiative 10 stage of the assault phase; or alternately, you could have the rhino tank shock the Genestealers and if successful, have the rhino explode at full effect as above.

4) A special unit of Sisters (or the Repentia) that have committed such a terrible sin that the only redemption, because their faith demands it, is dying in battle with many bodies of heretics and mutants surrounding them. In game terms you could have have the unit infiltrate or outflank, as they try to do as much havoc behind enemy lines as possible, unless you just want to rush them; and to represent the Sisters' death wish they could benefit from the Space Wolf Lone Wolf rule where killing the Sisters unit gives the Sisters player a VP and not killing them gives the opponent a VP.

These are some simple ideas of how a Sisters army could be fielded with a fundamentalist mindset. I'm not saying they should play like this (that's for GW to decide), or that Sisters are the same as modern day terrorists ( that's the Alpha Legion's job), I'm just trying to point out that they have the same mindset (as shown in the fluff) as modern day extremists. It's just this isn't as obvious as a fluff point. The whole point of this thread is to out suggestions on what to fix with the Sisters, not just game-wise but fluff-wise as well. The extremist theme I'm throwing out is something that could suit the Sisters, and makes of a change of what Sisters are currently portrayed as praying in chapels and waiting for next time some aliens or forces of Chaos decide to visit. While the classic chapel defence is fine, it's not the only way Sisters should fight. They should be also be out in the galaxy defending the faithful and killing aliens, not just as a military objective but as a spiritual objective as well. Remember Sisters of Battle kill you, not because your their enemy, but because their God-Emperor demands it of them.

[Harley]

I can agree with Sisters not having access to flyers due to being banned from having a Navy, but they have the support of the Imperial Navy, after all how did they get to the planet they are fighting on? (If I had a dollar for every time I have to say this) But they need a solution which doesn't require allying in some other army to help them.

There are so many examples of the Sororitas being out on their own, without support of the PDA or Astra Militarum or Astartes and I can't imagine that in all these situations they just turn tail and run away.

A very simple solution would be to have certain Sisters be able to call in orbital support against air targets. Something like a Skyfire Str8 AP1 Ordnance 1 shot which originates from whatever ship dropped them on the planet. Or just give them a decently priced Flak missile launcher... although Flak seems to be a 4 letter word for GW since they want you to pay 25pts for a single crappy shot... seriously???

[This Dave]

To me the old Excorcist should be an air defense missile launcher vehicle. This at least gives a reason for the thing to launch the missiles vertically.

GW could possibly even give them a variant of the Taurox since the Sororitas are better armored stormtroopers. While the tracks are still kind of goofy the thing is actually a decent vehicle. Maybe give it an Inferno Cannon in the turret to keep with their love of purging with flame.

[Charistoph]

I can agree with Sisters not having access to flyers due to being banned from having a Navy, but they have the support of the Imperial Navy, after all how did they get to the planet they are fighting on? (If I had a dollar for every time I have to say this) But they need a solution which doesn't require allying in some other army to help them.

Alternatively, they could only use air-breathing Flyers which can't break atmosphere and thus not part of the Navy... Which means a new model like the Dark Talon. ...crap.

[Harley]

Alternatively, they could only use air-breathing Flyers which can't break atmosphere and thus not part of the Navy... Which means a new model like the Dark Talon. ...crap.

That seems like a slippery slope since it raises too many questions.

-How do they transport these flyers from planet to planet? In a carrier? Isn't that too similar to a Navy?
-Since many planets may have different elevations, oxygen levels, chemical compositions and hazardous conditions, wouldn't making them space worthy make more sense?
-Couldn't these flyers easily be modified for space travel, and if not, then aren't they purposely crippling them to adhere to regulation?
-Who pilots these? The Schola Progenium doesn't train pilots and the Sisters don't have any.
-If a pair of pants is a pair and pants is plural then what is a single pant and why would you ever want just one?
-If no one ever wanted just one pant then why would it be important to specify them as coming in a pair?

[daboarder]

well the guard is prohibited from aircraft by the same decree. and yet valkyries are a thing

[Harley]

well the guard is prohibited from aircraft by the same decree. and yet valkyries are a thing

But those Valkyries are actually part of the Imperial Navy, not the Guard. There are some rare instances where they are directly assigned to specific Guard regiments such as Elysiums but ultimately they seem to fall under Navy jurisdiction.

[daboarder]

But those Valkyries are actually part of the Imperial Navy, not the Guard. There are some rare instances where they are directly assigned to specific Guard regiments such as Elysiums but ultimately they seem to fall under Navy jurisdiction.

sure, and yet the guard field them, so why would the SoB not have a similar agreement with the navy? Infact that is basically the background for the avenger strike figther.

The valkyrie proves that there is no logical reason for sisters to not have access to a flier.

[Harley]

sure, and yet the guard field them, so why would the SoB not have a similar agreement with the navy? Infact that is basically the background for the avenger strike figther.

The valkyrie proves that there is no logical reason for sisters to not have access to a flier.


I agree, I was just addressing Christoph's post. The only problem is that naturally such a unit won't be very Sororitas or Ecclesiarchy flavored because as per the fluff they just don't exist. I don't see why every army needs a flyer. They just need some kind of way to deal with them which opens the option of a Sororitas or Ecclesiarchal themed unit on the ground (or just upgrades to existing units). Personally I would prefer that route rather than dilute the army with supplemental units from other forces.

[helline9]

I agree, I was just addressing Christoph's post. The only problem is that naturally such a unit won't be very Sororitas or Ecclesiarchy flavored because as per the fluff they just don't exist. I don't see why every army needs a flyer. They just need some kind of way to deal with them which opens the option of a Sororitas or Ecclesiarchal themed unit on the ground (or just upgrades to existing units). Personally I would prefer that route rather than dilute the army with supplemental units from other forces.

I agree with Harley here. An adeptas Sororitas force should be able to be fielded by itself and still function perfectly fine, that being said their codex should be built according to their strengths & backstory (which i suspect GW is going to change BTW) not just add in units because they are trendy at the time. Could penitent engines be MC's yes, should they...probably not, could sisters have flyers possibly ...should they probably not.

There are plenty of stories and references stating how difficult it is to remove sisters from an objective (the space marine attempt to assassinate the head of the official imperial religion as probably the best example. not saying that vandire didn't deserve it at the time he did, my point is that in that battle the sisters forced a stalemate against 4 chapters of space marines which is impressive in anyone's book... and they've done this again and again.) They would not be able to defend objectives this well unless they have a effective way of dealing with flyers from the ground.
Cheaper &/or better fortifications, skyfire upgrade rounds for the exorcist, faith ability that grants full BS for snapshots for retributors & dominions all of these are more appropriate alternatives in my view.

[daboarder]

and yet the avenger strike fighter exists and fits the army both in background and rules

[helline9]

and yet the avenger strike fighter exists and fits the army both in background and rules

As far as i remember its backstory is that its a relic from long ago therefor they venerate it, now to me that sounds more like adeptus mechanicus than sisters. While i admit i haven't used the avenger i view it much like the recent sisters codex; a vain attempt to placate the devout sisters players with something inappropriate but i also understand that i'm probably alone in my view of the avenger (though it is a nice looking model with fairly decent rules).

A Sisters codex could be written in such a way that shuts down not just psyker based lists but also flyer based lists all while being a defensive army without changing too much in the way of adding new units to do that, but rather by improving existing units with more up to date rules. A new sisters codex could/ should dramatically change the meta and that should be done without having a single unit that does it (ie: like the chaos bird of doom).

[DaveTycho]

sure, and yet the guard field them, so why would the SoB not have a similar agreement with the navy? Infact that is basically the background for the avenger strike figther.

The valkyrie proves that there is no logical reason for sisters to not have access to a flier.

In the novel "Redemption Corps" the Sisters had their own Valkyries. I'd be ok with them in a Sister army, although it probably mean that GW would have to pack in an extra "Sister" sprue for pilots and iconography into an already packed kit.

I'd be ok with an avenger too, provided GW decides to make plastic versions of FW stuff again.

More than likely GW would make a brand new piece of crap flyer instead of using something they already have.

[DeSteele]

In the novel "Redemption Corps" the Sisters had their own Valkyries. I'd be ok with them in a Sister army, although it probably mean that GW would have to pack in an extra "Sister" sprue for pilots and iconography into an already packed kit.

I'd be ok with an avenger too, provided GW decides to make plastic versions of FW stuff again.

More than likely GW would make a brand new piece of crap flyer instead of using something they already have.

But since from the fluff our Air Support is provided by the Navy we could use the Valkyrie and Avenger kits as they are now, though some female pilots would be good.

Avenger is venerated by the Sisters due to the fact that it was used extensively in support of Sebastian Thor in his overthrowing of Vandire.

[helline9]

But since from the fluff our Air Support is provided by the Navy we could use the Valkyrie and Avenger kits as they are now, though some female pilots would be good.

i wounder if the plastic immolator sister (the only currently existing plastic sister that i'm aware of) would fit in a Valkyrie cockpit? 0_o


Avenger is venerated by the Sisters due to the fact that it was used extensively in support of Sebastian Thor in his overthrowing of Vandire.

ah man... you mentioned sabastion thor, i can't argue with that! but seriously thank you for the correction. :)

just a minor point but is the avenger the first (and only) sisters ...anything with lascannons?

[This Dave]

There are plenty of stories and references stating how difficult it is to remove sisters from an objective (the space marine attempt to assassinate the head of the official imperial religion as probably the best example. not saying that vandire didn't deserve it at the time he did, my point is that in that battle the sisters forced a stalemate against 4 chapters of space marines which is impressive in anyone's book... and they've done this again and again.) They would not be able to defend objectives this well unless they have a effective way of dealing with flyers from the ground.

Of course, when they did that they were occupying the Imperial Palace itself, which is quite an advantage to have. Not only is it the most formidable fortress in the Imperium but the attacking Chapters were probably rather reluctant to throw everything they had at blowing up the Emperor's house.

[eldargal]

Vandire was fortified in his Ecclesiastical Palace not the Imperial Palace.

[Harley]

In the novel "Redemption Corps" the Sisters had their own Valkyries. I'd be ok with them in a Sister army, although it probably mean that GW would have to pack in an extra "Sister" sprue for pilots and iconography into an already packed kit.

I'd be ok with an avenger too, provided GW decides to make plastic versions of FW stuff again.

More than likely GW would make a brand new piece of crap flyer instead of using something they already have.

I haven't read that novel but it seems fairly clear in most canon that outside of the Mechanus and Astartes, air support is strictly prohibited to anyone but the Imperial Navy. It makes sense that some Guard regiments would bend or break these rules but I can't see the Adepta Sororitas breaking them.

Either way, the entire point of taking Adepta Sororitas out of Witch Hunters is so they can operate as a stand alone force without support of other armies. This means they need their own, unique models and units. If you need to start adding Imperial Guard units, what is the point?

Armies like Tau seem to have no problem having Skyfire upgrades available to their units. I simply refuse to believe that a Mission of Sisters would enter into a conflict without some kind of mobile anti-aircraft capability that doesn't require calling in the Imperial Navy for support. Every other army is perfectly capable of being fielded as a single faction without being defenseless against one Heldrake.


i wounder if the plastic immolator sister (the only currently existing plastic sister that i'm aware of) would fit in a Valkyrie cockpit? 0_o

It would probably fit fairly easily with some cutting down but you would need two for both pilots and they may not even be very noticeable with the canopy over them. Easier just to buy a couple female heads for the existing cockpit.

[This Dave]

Vandire was fortified in his Ecclesiastical Palace not the Imperial Palace.

Oops! You're right. I just remembered the Custodes showing up to lead them to the Emperor and forgot about the whole "secret passage across a continent" thing. :)

[DeSteele]

Either way, the entire point of taking Adepta Sororitas out of Witch Hunters is so they can operate as a stand alone force without support of other armies. This means they need their own, unique models and units. If you need to start adding Imperial Guard units, what is the point?
Well Imperial Navy but I get your point :)
Even the Imperial Guard don't have any flyers of their own, just stuff 'borrowed' from the Navy.


Armies like Tau seem to have no problem having Skyfire upgrades available to their units. I simply refuse to believe that a Mission of Sisters would enter into a conflict without some kind of mobile anti-aircraft capability that doesn't require calling in the Imperial Navy for support. Every other army is perfectly capable of being fielded as a single faction without being defenseless against one Heldrake
In the book Hammer and Anvil the Sisters Retributors have no problem shooting down Necron Flyers.
They had no Exorcists with them.


It would probably fit fairly easily with some cutting down but you would need two for both pilots and they may not even be very noticeable with the canopy over them. Easier just to buy a couple female heads for the existing cockpit.
A bit of Green stuff is fine for a bit of a body shape change. Since they have helmets on you can't tell by face.


just a minor point but is the avenger the first (and only) sisters ...anything with lascannons?
The only thing I know of.

[Charistoph]

That seems like a slippery slope since it raises too many questions.

Any more than having women under arms so that no man is?


-How do they transport these flyers from planet to planet? In a carrier? Isn't that too similar to a Navy?

Same as the Rhinos, Immolators, and Excorsists, I imagine, if not built on the planet itself. Not all Flyers have to be flown down directly from a starship under its own power.


-Since many planets may have different elevations, oxygen levels, chemical compositions and hazardous conditions, wouldn't making them space worthy make more sense?

And Sisters would be on a such a world, why? And if they were, it would probably be a place where an air-breather wouldn't function anyway, so not part of their equipment list. Sisters are about defending the Ecclisiarchy, so go where they go.


-Couldn't these flyers easily be modified for space travel, and if not, then aren't they purposely crippling them to adhere to regulation?

Possibly. How hard would it be to make a P-51 Mustang or an F-22 Raptor space-worthy? And heck, they deny any male access to their ranks, so there's a crippling point right there.


-Who pilots these? The Schola Progenium doesn't train pilots and the Sisters don't have any.

Fluff rewrite. They do now. They just weren't mentioned before as they had no Flyers represented, so no reason to mention them. A pilot just hanging around a Ordo Hereticus just didn't make sense I guess.


-If a pair of pants is a pair and pants is plural then what is a single pant and why would you ever want just one?

Good question. I've wondered that myself. But considering that there's always one more weird fetish out there...


-If no one ever wanted just one pant then why would it be important to specify them as coming in a pair?

Why sell a pair of gloves as a pair?



Either way, the entire point of taking Adepta Sororitas out of Witch Hunters is so they can operate as a stand alone force without support of other armies. This means they need their own, unique models and units. If you need to start adding Imperial Guard units, what is the point?

And yet, the Imperial Guard operates with support of the Navy. The Inquisition for a long time ran with the Grey Knights, and vice versa. I just thought it was to separate them from the Ordos where they only had a small relationship.

Ah well, with the situations with Formations and Allies now, I can just take a Stormwing Formation and drop off Sisters from a flying Land Raider.

If they every make plastic Sisters, anyway.