Putting my money where my mouth is - A challenge!

[Mr Mystery]

Hiya

So, this Malefic Daemon summoning circus thing.

I don't suppose anyone UK based would have an existing army suitable for actually playing?

I really, really want to go up against it, just to see what happens. I'll be fielding my Necrons as they're now my sole 40k army...

I can go up to around 2,500 comfortably, but will match whatever. And rest of BoLS? Got a points value you regularly play at? Let me know. Might be mileage in matching that for the trial.....

[Lord Asterion]

I have started playing at 1200, we're finding it a really good points value, can't get all the toys and still have some points for something fun.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm specifically meaning a Daemon Army capable of being geared toward mass summoning. I'm of the opinion that while potentially nasty, it's really not all that bad. But I need to play against it.

[Lord Asterion]

I'm trying that tomorrow night at 1200 points, with a friend of mine, we are also restricting to one COmbined arms detachment as per the WHW tournament rules update.

[Harley]

Mr. M, there are plenty of battle reps showing examples of it being over the top, even video evidence. Yet you can't believe GW screwed up on a large facet of 7th edition so you have to see for yourself?

8978

[Lord Asterion]

Battle reports where we can't see if they're even using the rules properly, the ones I had seen have had several rules mistakes in.

The game is less than a week old, its far far too early to call anything broken.

[Mr Mystery]

Mr. M, there are plenty of battle reps showing examples of it being over the top, even video evidence. Yet you can't believe GW screwed up on a large facet of 7th edition so you have to see for yourself?

8978

Yup. Call me old fashioned, but I don't believe 99.9% of the stuff on the interwebs, on account it's the interwebs. Plus, I really, REALLY want to try this out. I reckon I can handle it, easy. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. Won't know until I've given it a bash now, will I?

And as Lord Asterion says....Bat reps where we can't even guarantee, or safely say, the game took place. All part of the growing influence of my professional life on my gaming life I'm afraid. Suspicious bloke is suspicious!

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I've just done the math on the other thread, based entirely on averages of course, but IF you take a tzeench army geared ENTIRELY towards summoning and IF you think about it you really can chuck out an obscene number of models per turn.
But honestly I can't see it being fun for either player, and it'll be financially insane.

[Mr Mystery]

Yes. And I'm so afraid of being wrong, I've put my nadgers on the block, willing to see what actually happens.

If you have nothing constructive to add to this open topic, then please refrain from posting.

[Eldar_Atog]

I'd actually like to see a battle report if you don't mind, Mystery. To me, the demon summoner sounds like a terrible army to play against. The demon summoner's psyker phase is going to be as exciting as watching someone play solitaire.

[Mr Mystery]

No worries.

Currently looking into Vassal 40k as the medium, which should allow a decent write up.

May even explore different points levels.

Who knows, my bravery/stupidity/suicidal tendency* may prove of benefit to the wider community :)

*delete as historically appropriate.

[Mr Mystery]

And just for clarity - this is not some 'secret agenda' thing.

Looking at the necessities of the full on summoning army, I really do think it's somewhat overrated. And by wanting to play against it, I'm just looking to test my theory. It's not about proving I'm right, you're wrong, hahaha. It's a curious gamer wanting to explore their hobby.

[DarkLink]

Heads up, vassal is super clumsy. Don't know if it's the best way to try out a list that already takes a while to play.

[Mr Mystery]

Seems the easiest way to host an international without, you know, going international.

Though if anyone can suggest other methods, I'm game.

[Harley]

8988

I'm actually interested in this too just because I'm a glutton for punishment and love a challenge. Am trying to find a suitable Daemons player locally to try taking on a full out Malefic summoning horde vs some good ol Grey Knights.

[Mr Mystery]

I reckon it would end badly for GK, simply because you may not have the firepower to keep numbers manageable.

My general headplan is to focus all my firepower on the most threatening caster I can. Could be the DP (fnarr) could be the Greater Daemon. Mayhap it will be the Horrors. Either way, I keep going until it's not getting up again. Necrons should be able to do this. Getting First Turn would of course be a massive help, as I stand to reduce those power dice before they ever get rolled. Arguably!

And got a couple of tactical tricks up my sleeves what I am keeping to myself...

[White Tiger88]

I reckon it would end badly for GK, simply because you may not have the firepower to keep numbers manageable.

My general headplan is to focus all my firepower on the most threatening caster I can. Could be the DP (fnarr) could be the Greater Daemon. Mayhap it will be the Horrors. Either way, I keep going until it's not getting up again. Necrons should be able to do this. Getting First Turn would of course be a massive help, as I stand to reduce those power dice before they ever get rolled. Arguably!

And got a couple of tactical tricks up my sleeves what I am keeping to myself...

I will get a hot cup of coco & a warm blanket for your necrons after this match......

[Mr Mystery]

General approach?

The same approach as I take in Warhammer when fighting Undead of any stripe. I do my best to control and dictate what you need from your castings.

Against Undead, it's naturally a bit easier, as I can more actively dispel stuff. But in 40k, all about clever target acquisition. I've just done some test rolling, and managed to swat Fateweaver and a Lord of Change out the sky in a single turn, whilst leaving a decent amount of firepower for other stuff (as in, that wasn't my entire army having at them. Fair chunk yes, but the trade was worths it I feel). Should that be taken as a given in any game? Of course not! But, it is a ray of sunshine for my theory, as it's presented the Daemon player with a trickier choice for his casting. Does he start pumping out replacements (of any kind. After all, that's 7 power dice I've just dealt with for next turn) or, focus on protecting what he already has? Perhaps he'd feel best off splitting it a bit? I dunno. He's not me :)

Yep, reckon I can handles this! C'Tan bless Tesla! (cannot understate how much of a boon this is here!)

[Mr Mystery]

Currently pondering whether or not to bung in a Triarch Stalker..... Twin Linked Heavy Gauss Cannon for it's own accuracy. Not brilliant itself against Daemons, but when I'm banking on causing maximum damage in each shooting phase, can I really pass up twin linking my other units? Spesh as I have a decent track record when it comes to tagging flying stuff, and I have so much Tesla. Serious game changer from just a single hit.

Man, I hope they hurry up with 7th Ed Vassal. This is gonna be fun, win or lose!

[Lord Asterion]

Just finished my game, it was a lot of fun, 1200 points, Space Marines vs Daemons, the new missions take a lot of getting used to and we made a lot of mistakes, there were a lot of daemons running about, but he only got a summoning power off successfully 4 times in the course of the game, which was a lot to deal with but I never really felt like too much, as their were a lot of objectives to be concerned with. I think people will be able to adjust their lists and there will be units that can counter it eventually.

I lost, but, this guy almost always beats me anyway and it was 7 VPs to 4, not exactly a crushing victory, the summoning powers were overwhelmed by Cursed Earth, that is a much better power and only Warp Charge 1.

Next time, I'd like to try and maybe get more Psykers, I only had a Mastery Level 2 Librarian, he had a Daemon Price, Keeper of Secrets, Herald of Tzeentch and Horrors, more points means more chance of Denying, the Perils of the Warp is NASTY now, much riskier than before, and I need to remember that I get a free Primarius for only using one discipline, which I forgot, I think with Scryers Gaze, which I rolled and swapped for the Primarius, which now lets to swap a Tactical Objective, I could have swung things in my favour.

All in all, a good game as always, to minimise Daemon summoning, I'd say, play at lower points, make sure you have lots of terrain around, they deep strike and can scatter, if you have a lot of terrain, they're going to want to make sure they manifest Cursed Earth first to stop the scattering, taking another few Warp Charge points away. My opponent lost a good few Daemons to Difficult terrain tests.

Also, having cards for the objectives is pretty much essential, rolling and checking the book and noting what you have takes a lot longer than drawing a card from a deck. The game wasn't that slow, I know a lot of people complained about the time the psychic phase added, but we were done in maybe 2 hours? We did 5 full turns before the game ended. On the long side for a game that size, sure, but, first game of 7th with only cards for one side and a lot of rules checking, so it'll speed up.