Chaos Psychic Focus and thousand sons. (Page 22 big rule book)

[Xaric]

Because they are mark of tzeentch does that meen the sorcerer gets 2 powers?

[daboarder]

Because they are mark of tzeentch does that meen the sorcerer gets 2 powers?

They get the chaos tzeentch primaris for free

Even better that counts as the single tzeentch power they must take therefore they can roll on the Brb tables

[Xaric]

well that solves the issues about sorcerer sucking :D

[daboarder]

Aye it did, tzeentch ones in particular had pretty much all their major WTF issues adressed by the new rules.

[Subexarch]

Even better that counts as the single tzeentch power they must take therefore they can roll on the Brb tables

Don't they lose the free primaris power once they choose a power from the BRB? The rules state that once you gain a power from any other dicipline for any reason you lose the free primaris power. Appologies if I'm missing something.

[daboarder]

Chaos casters get a focus specific to them that just gives them the primaris because the rules dont let them take powers from a single discipline

[Hal]

Even better that counts as the single tzeentch power they must take therefore they can roll on the Brb tables

Are you sure about that? The codex still says you have to roll for at least one power on the table depending on your mark..

[daboarder]

Its in the marks rules.

edit: hmm you may have a point, but I believe the section you are refering too can be disregarded as obsolete for a number of reasons reasons.

1) It contains obsolete mechanics for generating powers, as of 7th it is possible to generate powers without rolling for them (and therefore satisfy the rules on page 30 of the CSM codex

2) That section also limits which schools CSMs have access too (which we know has been changed by the BRB therefore setting the precedent for the BRB to change how powers are generated.

3) examples in the BRB on page 23 suggest that Chaos focus does indeed count as automatically generating the god primaris power.

Hopefully the whole thing will be FAQs soon.

[ElectricPaladin]

Daemons don't have it as easy because they can only take HALF their powers from the god list, this missing out on the free focus power…. I see a lot of my Tzeentch Daemons taking mostly Divination powers. We'll have to see who gets Demonology. Pink Horrors got a nice boost though - they all get the Tzeentch Primaris for free!

[daboarder]

Daemons don't have it as easy because they can only take HALF their powers from the god list, this missing out on the free focus power…. I see a lot of my Tzeentch Daemons taking mostly Divination powers. We'll have to see who gets Demonology. Pink Horrors got a nice boost though - they all get the Tzeentch Primaris for free!

They still get the free focus power EP.

Its a chaos specific rule for daemons and CSM that they automatically get their gods primaris, without rolling or anything, as they are specifically prohibited from rolling all powers on a single chart.

[DarkLink]

And since they automatically get the power for free, and they're only required to have one power from their god's chart, they can use their normal rolls on other powers.

[Caitsidhe]

And since they automatically get the power for free, and they're only required to have one power from their god's chart, they can use their normal rolls on other powers.

So Malefic? :D

[daboarder]

Or divination

[NidzillaFTW]

Sorry, where does it say chaos sorcerers get the primaris power for free without having to roll on the tzeentch powers list? I've gone over the codex, brb, and FAQ and can seem to find mention of it. It seems to me that the would only get the psychic focus bonus if they choose all their powers from the tzeentch list.

[John Bower]

Sorry, where does it say chaos sorcerers get the primaris power for free without having to roll on the tzeentch powers list? I've gone over the codex, brb, and FAQ and can seem to find mention of it. It seems to me that the would only get the psychic focus bonus if they choose all their powers from the tzeentch list.

It's not actually in the CSM book, it's in 'The Rules' under psychic focus.

[KhornishGameHen]

It's not actually in the CSM book, it's in 'The Rules' under psychic focus.

Well... learning this just made me appreciate Chaos Sorcerers much more than I did previously...

[Mad Cat]

Can I just confirm that my CSM Daemon Prince that is level 3 with mark of Nurgle can roll 3 times now on Biomancy and get the Nurgle Primaris power free due to the chaos focus which counts as his one mandatory god specific power and then get Smite for free as he rolled all his (rollable) powers on a single discipline.

Likewise a Horror unit would get a rolled power from Mlific and the malific primaris and flckering fire.

Wow.

[Charistoph]

Can I just confirm that my CSM Daemon Prince that is level 3 with mark of Nurgle can roll 3 times now on Biomancy and get the Nurgle Primaris power free due to the chaos focus which counts as his one mandatory god specific power and then get Smite for free as he rolled all his (rollable) powers on a single discipline.

No, because he still needs to roll one Nurgle power. That part has not changed.

[Charon]

Emphasis is on "roll"

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah, CSM psykers with a Mark or Daemon Of... automatically get their god's Primaris power, but they must still generate at least one, and may generate up to half, of their powers from their god's psychic discipline by rolling on that table.

Codex: Daemons psykers also get their god's Primaris power automatically, but they are not required to generate any powers from their god's table unless they really want to. Kinda why Daemons Daemon Princes are a notch above CSM Princes (plus the Rewards can be awesome). But CSM Princes can get some good relics and a Familiar, which is quite handy these days!

[Xaric]

No, because he still needs to roll one Nurgle power. That part has not changed.

Incorrect in the big rule book on page 22 in the black box with red borders bottom part chaos psychic focus clearly saids that for this exsample if hes a daemon of nurgle because hes a daemon prince of nurgle he automaticly gets the primaris power for nurgle abiltys for free and no he does not need to roll one as it clearly states he must select at least one power from nurgle discipline in the codex for chaos space marines so having the primaris power automatically means you have fulfilled the requirement's.

[Charon]

How about some real rule quotes?


Chaos Psychic Focus
If a Psyker has a Mark of Chaos or is a Daemon of a particular Chaos God (see Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Codex: Chaos Daemons), that model automatically knows the primaris power of the discipline that corresponds to their patron deity, in addition to any other powers it knows.

Can you please point out how you ROLL (which obviously includes a dice) the primaris power to fulfill:


If the Psyker has a Mark of Chaos, or is a Daemon of a
particular Chaos God, they must roll at least one, and may
roll up to half, of their powers on the table that corresponds
to thei1 pauon deitv.

Chaos Daemons from the Codex: Chaos Daemons are a different beast as they do not have such an requirement.

[Xaric]

Define select and roll?

Clearly in the entry on page 33 of the daemon prince entry under psyker If the daemon prince is upgraded to a daemon of Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh, he must also select at least one power from the Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh disciplines respectively now is the first of all it clearly states select discipline not roll for a power in the discipline and the primaris power is technically a power that belongs to said discipline so by that logic they already have one power from said discipline.

you do know CSM book was designed for 6th edition right? so of corse there will be rules like this.

[Charon]

You still do not "select" a power, you automatically know it. There is no choice involved.

Yes, CSM was designed for 6th edition. Same as most other codices. Doesn't mean you can just ignore their wording.
If you wish to houserule it, feel free but please don't act as it was actually written in the rules.

[Charistoph]

Incorrect in the big rule book on page 22 in the black box with red borders bottom part chaos psychic focus clearly saids that for this exsample if hes a daemon of nurgle because hes a daemon prince of nurgle he automaticly gets the primaris power for nurgle abiltys for free and no he does not need to roll one as it clearly states he must select at least one power from nurgle discipline in the codex for chaos space marines so having the primaris power automatically means you have fulfilled the requirement's.

And the part I referenced is in the Codex which trumps the rulebook when there is a conflict. The Chaos Marine Daemon Prince must still ROLL one Nurgle Power before moving on to another discipline. Chaos Focus is not Rolled for.

[Xaric]

Care to show me the rule in the big rule book where it said the codex trumps the rulebook when there is a conflict? because I believe that rule was in the 6th edition rule book but I cant see it in the 7th edition rule book so unless you find the page and evidence where it declares what you are saying is to be true the statement I am about to declare takes priority by logic if a book is more updated to the current date we are at so that would mean the 4th of January 2015 those rules closer to that date take priority thus making the 7th edition rules hold more point over a 6th edition book.

[Charistoph]

Care to show me the rule in the big rule book where it said the codex trumps the rulebook when there is a conflict? because I believe that rule was in the 6th edition rule book but I cant see it in the 7th edition rule book so unless you find the page and evidence where it declares what you are saying is to be true the statement I am about to declare takes priority by logic if a book is more updated to the current date we are at so that would mean the 4th of January 2015 those rules closer to that date take priority thus making the 7th edition rules hold more point over a 6th edition book.

BRB > General Principles > Basic Versus Advanced, second paragraph, last two sentences:
"On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence."

Sorry, I'm working off of an eBook right now, as I'm feeling really lazy and don't want to run out in the cold to my car to get out the hardcopy just for a page number.

[Lord Krungharr]

Rolling on the psychic chart for the appropriate chaos god is just a randomized form of selection. Select does not always mean choose and in this context it does not. So a csm daemon prince must still roll at least once on the table. The csm codex psyker rule also includes models with daemon of.

[Charon]

Rolling on the psychic chart for the appropriate chaos god is just a randomized form of selection. Select does not always mean choose and in this context it does not. So a csm daemon prince must still roll at least once on the table. The csm codex psyker rule also includes models with daemon of.

You cant roll a primaris power.
And you could only select a primaris power if you trade it in for another psi-power.
In fact, you are alread granted the primaris when you write your army list (as it comes with the mark) unlike the rest which is generated before the game starts.

[daboarder]

actually my own thoughts on this are

1) The use of the word roll is ancient terminology and is in contrast to the words "generate" used in the same rule earlier in the book

2) Allowing the free power to NOT count as a roll violates the stipulation that psychers can never have MORE than half their powers. (A ML 1 psyker would have two god powers)

The only way to realistically reconcile the rule within itself is to accept that roll and generate are interchangeable wording

[Charon]

As he may ROLL up to half, he is perfectly fine with having 2 powers (actual wording). So it does not violate the rule in any way.

And even if you would rule it out, the Scroll of Magnus would instantly invalidate the character as it does not state an exception to the general rule.

[Xaric]

Scroll of magnus generates powers as per turn when you use it the rule about half the powers is referenced to the start of the game and yes the reason I said you get it was the principle of CSM generating 2 powers when they can only have half the powers rounding up of there god and half of 1 is 0.5 rounding up is 1 power so this rule is extremely contradicting iver you don't have to take a power because of the chaos focus giving you that swap power for free or you allow the CSM psyker to generate more then half the powers you cant have it both ways or that would be counted as a double standard...

[Charon]

As I said (with the actual wording) its not contradicting as the same wording (roll) is used.
So a level 1 is forced to roll up at least one power of ttheir patron god (check) but may not ROLL up more than half (check, he just rolled ONE). So no double standard here, in both cases the wording is "roll".

[Xaric]

ok I am agreeing with you now Charon that does make a lot of sense