Exploded vehicle wreckage?

[Harley]

Haven't checked out the new BRB yet but from what I understand, exploded vehicles no longer leave craters/area terrain behind in 7th edition?

Can anyone confirm this?

I literally just finished painting, flocking and basing a large matching set of wreckage markers for my mechanized army a few days ago...

Is this GW's attempt to curb 3rd party wreckage markers since the don't make their own? Are disembarked passengers now just totally --cked and at the mercy of any assaulting force from Xeno/Daemon races who don't have assault grenades or blasts targeting occupants (Made worse since any unit that shot at the transport may now charge the occupants)? My mechanized Imperial forces are not to happy but I'm trying to lighten my mood by telling myself Explodes is a less likely result now...

Now with area terrain gone, does anyone else feel like one of the most strategic elements of the game is gone in favor of rolling on more random tables? Cover in general is worse, relies more heavily on what terrain models are available (which is often not optimal) and is more commonly ignored by armies. Along with Nightfighting having a weaker effect, 7th edition more so than 6th seems like a shooting gallery.

[Alessander]

[removed portion - http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_termsuse]

Vehicles still leave wrecks. crash&burn'd vehciles leave craters. Craters give 6+ that have a GTG bonus of +2 instead of +1.

There's still both Ruins and Rubble which give 4+ cover save to models in the terrain regardless of whether or not they are 25% obscured.

Also "unless otherwise stated, a model in cover behind difficult terrain has a 5+ cover save".

[Xenith]

(Made worse since any unit that shot at the transport may now charge the occupants)?

That rule has existed since 5th edition.

[Harley]

Stop whining, it hasn't changed.

Thank you for providing the compulsory expected and rude response any time someone questions something about the game. :rolleyes:

Moving on... It has changed.

Even if they still do leave Craters, they are no longer area terrain, or rather "Ruins and Rubble". Sure, you can go to ground for a 4+ but then cannot Overwatch.

So would a wrecked vehicle be a 4+ or a 5+?

[Melon-neko]

In the explodes damage result, it does not say anywhere that you replace the vehicle with a crater. Just says remove the vehicle from the game.

GW has started down a road of "don't make rules for anything we don't make models for" and I guess they didn't want to make exploded vehicle markers. I found replacing them with craters to be a huge pain but I would happily let my opponent if they had them.

[Harley]

Thanks Melon, I've got confirmations from several people with book in hand that vehicles no longer leave craters.

[Da Gargoyle]

Have not read the book yet, it was released yesterday here. But, troops surviving exit from a wrecked or exploded vehicle were never immune from assault or further shooting. The enemy that wrecked or destroyed a vehicle could assault the dismounted troops from the vehicle. It used to be my tactic to blast the vehicle with one squad and then blast the dismounted passengers with another. The rule I thought they should have kept but gave up some editions ago was entangled. A space marine had no guarantee that he would not be pinned in the wreckage if his transport went up and this was nothing to do with moral. A pinning test is different as it measures force of will rather than environmental impediment. (Sorry, I really liked entangled)

[Harley]

Gargoyle, you're missing the point, that's not what I'm saying.

They are now MORE susceptible to assault and further shooting because they no longer have automatic cover from the crater created in the transport's explosion. Sure, in 6th edition passengers could be assaulted or shot further after their vehicle blew up, but at least they had a 5+ cover save from the crater and enemies who didn't have Frag Grenades would have to reconsider assaulting them since the crater would make them initiative 1. Now they don't need to worry about that. It's a huge boost for Xeno and Daemon armies against mechanized Imperial forces.