Did the Wave Serpent just get a LOT WORSE?

[Lost Vyper]

Darn!

If the new Jink rule is true, WS just took A HUGE HIT...Ignores cover didn´t change, so fe. Space Wolves Longfangs + Psyker + Ignores Cover = almost automatically rendering WS as a vehicle that just has to Jink every turn, shooting snap shots, and trying to get it´s payload on the specific area...well, at least ATSKNF got that stupid 3" "free movement" taken away (if the rumors are true that is)...but Eldar got the stick...AGAIN...well, it was nice while it lasted...

- Lost Vyper

by the way, SKY IS FALLING! :p

[daboarder]

DUDE!!

They have incontestable scoring


/maelstrom games

[Lost Vyper]

Cool!

[Mr Mystery]

For those who just woke up.....are Long Fangs specific to this, or just used as an example of heavy weapon squads?

[Throne Agent]

DUDE!!

They have incontestable scoring


/maelstrom games

Only if its a dedicated transport for a troops choice, and then it can be consteted by other Troops choices with the Objective Secured special rule.

[mordecai]

Jink is a cover save, so... why is this a new issue?

[Throne Agent]

I'm really confused as to why this is an issue, it makes Wave Serpents work as intended, a fast and hard to pin down troop transport, it should be jinking all over the place and avoiding fire, Wave Serpents aren't supposed to be the MBT they are used as in 6th.

[Lost Vyper]

In the 6th ed Jink = AUTOMATIC, no snap shooting...
In the 7th ed Jink = Must DECIDE, if you want to do it, and then only snap shooting...lets just hope you can disembark after Jink...

[Mr Mystery]

And this affects Dark Eldar and Tau to the same degree.

In terms of Jink in general, it's now in line with Fliers, who could only snap shot when evading.

[Throne Agent]

In the 6th ed Jink = AUTOMATIC, no snap shooting...
In the 7th ed Jink = Must DECIDE, if you want to do it, and then only snap shooting...lets just hope you can disembark after Jink...

So if you want to shoot, don't jink and take the hit.

Your pilot is ducking and weaving and using all the evasive manuvers he can, so aiming his guns will be a little more difficult, it makes sense and takes Wave Serpents down to where they should be now

[Tyrendian]

conversely, one could say they got better in comparison to most other skimmers, since they still have some kind of protection... DE also probably got comparatively better, what with their 5++ thingy having a reason to exist again now...

[Mr Mystery]

True that.

Though depending on how you've organised your list, the 'snap shot only if you jink' could put a slight crimp in your plan. Though the raised save (4+ instead of 5+, fact fans) is of help.

[jd2x.pacman]

Just out of curiousity, if a vehicle jinks, do any passengers have to snap fire? What if they disembark? This could really kill my dscythe wraithguard.

[Xenith]

Erm. Jink is a cover save, if I remember correctly, so if the:

Longfangs + Psyker + Ignores Cover

Scenario you suggest actually happens, you have no reason to jink, as it would just be ignored by the psychic power.

Alternatively, actually hide your serpent behind cover, as opposed to leaving it in plain sight of a Long Fang squad...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Alternatively, actually hide your serpent behind cover, as opposed to leaving it in plain sight of a Long Fang squad...

You fool! No using logic here! Eldar players are moaning!!

[daboarder]

edit: sorry wrong thread

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I cannot remember the last time I saw a Space Wolf army.

[Melon-neko]

I disagree, it effects Dark eldar much worse degree :P (av 10 vs av 12. explodes on a 6 vs ignores penetrating on a 2+)

I like the rule though, but I probably will switch to disintegrators over dark lances now.

[Lost Vyper]

I cannot remember the last time I saw a Space Wolf army.

We got one in our FLGC and it´s still viable choice (altough an old codex) and he still wins games (against Eldar, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, CSM...)...i´m really anxious to see both of the new codex for Ork and Space Wolves...there can be some serious nastiness there!

[Defenestratus]

We got one in our FLGC and it´s still viable choice (altough an old codex) and he still wins games (against Eldar, Dark Eldar, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, CSM...)...i´m really anxious to see both of the new codex for Ork and Space Wolves...there can be some serious nastiness there!

Its not really space wolves you need to look out for now. Its the damn prescienced heavy weapons teams with the crappy "ignores cover" special rule. IG simply point and click my transports off the table now. Nothing can be done to stop it. Not a damn thing.

[JMichael]

I don't mind the new mechanic at all.
Plus if you decide to Jink then it may be an easy choice to use your Serpent Shield 2+ pen-to-glance roll.

But even in 6th I used my Scatter Laser/Serpent Shield to great effect vs Flyers which were all snap shots anyway. TL-Scatter has a decent chance to roll at least one '6' which then makes your Serpent Shield twin Linked.

[Anggul]

Wave Serpents certainly needed a nerf, but I don't see why they did that to jink when they could have just reduced the range of the shield to 6".

I guess I'm not going to bother with holo-fields on my Fire Prisms any more, they'll be firing away for a couple of turns then dying because they're no longer survivable unless they give up on shooting, in which case they serve no purpose because they're gunships. At least with Wave Serpents they're transporting a unit somewhere so jinking serves a purpose.

[Charon]

First world problems.
Ravager. Same problem as Prism with half the range.
Raiders. Embarked models now get killed by template weapons in addition to losing jink and sitting on AV10.

[interrogator_chaplain]

As somebody who's been wiped across the floor by Eldar players. (And is also a Dark Angel player, so don't you dare start talking about nerf'd.)

CRY ME A RIVER!! :D

[Mad Cat]

I prefer the new jink rules. More powerful save but more drawbacks and it brings them into line with flyers. Wave serpents were too powerful for the points so deserved a downgrade and they still benefit from the upgrade all tanks receive from the new vehicle dammage table. If you fancy playing agressively foregoing the serpent shield and the jink then you now also save points from ditching holofields.

Bikes also got too good in 6th edition with both guardian jetbikes and chaos/SM bikes taking a point reduction in their new codes whilst gaining the jink rule (and for guardians a point of balistic skill). White Scars won't be as resillient as they used to be while still kicking out the dammage.

[Charon]

Too bad that not any skimmer is a sperpent and not any bike gets a 3+ save...