Question from Possible New Infinity Player

[CenturyChild533]

So I've just recently dropped Warhammer 40K and I've been eyeing switching to Infinity. Seems like a much better game overall. But I have a couple of questions.

With 3rd Edition waiting to drop from what I've been hearing, and base size changes to units about to be enforced, is now a good time to get started buying models or should I just wait until the new stuff is released? 40K 7th Edition just burned me in a similar manner, and I don't want that same thing to happen here.

I ask because Infinity models don't seem to be easy to find where I am, so I kind of want to snap them up while I can.

[Chronowraith]

Now is the perfect time to buy. No one anticipates a significant departure from the existing rules. Certain aspects will change a bit like Retreat and Loss of Lieutenant.

The Models won't change other than base size changes already announced. Since they now sell 55mm bases in packs so you can go ahead and base them on the new sizes already. Now, corvus does resculpt lines and some lines have more progress than others. So feel free to ask which lines are more up to date than others. Some factions you may want to wait for resculpts (unless you really like the current figures).

As for the rules... you don't have to buy them. Corvus Belli gives the rules away free and that won't change with 3rd edition. People buy the books so they can read the fluff.

[CenturyChild533]

Wow, that's... actually pretty awesome. I knew the quick-start rules were available on the site, but I didn't realize they also provided larger sets of rules. So that 59 page pdf on the official site is the current 2nd edition rulebook? And they'll provide 3rd Ed. when it rolls out? I like this company already.

As for resculpts and miniatures, the army that immediately caught my eye was the Japanese Sectorial Army. A whole group of ninjas is just too cool to pass up. Are those pretty recent, or should I hold off?

[DarkLink]

They have an official army builder app, too: http://infinitythegame.com/army/

All their rules are on their wiki: http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Home

It's also a much more simple game than 40k, kinda sorta. Each individual rule is very simple. Basically everything boils down to a single roll/roll off. There are a ton of options, and it will take a while to learn what all of them are and which ones are best when, but in actual practice, there's nothing as stupid as some of the stuff in 40k like, say, shooting a bucketful of dice, then rerolling all your misses, then rolling to wound, rerolling to wound, rolling your twenty or thirty saves one at a time mixed with rolling your Look Out Sirs one at a time, for five minutes straight, rinse and repeat for every unit in your army. 40k is amazingly clunky compared to Infinity.

[Antox717]

Corvus Belli pulls off two/three resculpts/new models every month, so i understand your worries. I believe yu-jing JSA starter is fairly old (2010, please correct me), and with the upcoming Invincible Army sectorial i believe they will get some love too. So in my opinion you should wait.
The truth is just i can't stand keisotsu models :P

[Poseidon]

The two rule books after prime will still be up to date if you like fluff, drawings and rules. They will update the unit profiles online for the last two books. Basically to continue the story.
JSA models will not get updated for a long time most likely. They are not in the most need. Also when a new one comes out you will want more keisotsu anyway. Close combat is pretty low unless you run ariadna or pano knights sectorial. The guns will be used more in almost all cases. Probably will be revamped in some way with the new edition.
Ninjas are good. JSA has one of the more strategic list options for ITS which is nice. Only really less than ten units in the game are almost unusable and JSA has none of them. So pick what you will. Links are important to have most so either keitsou or haramaki. Due to the restrictions from other things in yujing.

[CenturyChild533]

Well, made the leap earlier today. Bought the JSA starter box, a Hacker Ninja, and a Keisotsu Butai with HMG. There were a couple of other JSA models on the bargain table at the store that I went to, like an Oniwaban Kitsune, but this was all I could afford at the moment. I may go back in a couple of weeks and see if anything is left.

I do notice that the stores I've visited either don't have any minis for the game in stock or they're all on the bargain table. Not exactly reassuring. But I'm excited about this. The game seems like it'll be a lot of fun, and I'm really impressed by the figures.

[DarkLink]

They're readily available on line. Stores have limited shelf space.

[Chronowraith]

As others have stated I doubt seriously that JSA will see a revisit anytime soon. While they are the oldest sectorial box set the models inside are are well-liked or at least average with no glaringly bad models.

Infinity is still a very niche game. In my neck of the woods we have roughly 20-30 people that I know of that play the game and I live in a moderately sized metropolitan area of roughly 4 million people. The key is to teach others how to play the game and get them involved. Grab a friend and learn together and then when you both have learned the rules sufficiently, ask stores if you can run demo games. It helps you find new players and it helps them move product.

[CenturyChild533]

That's my plan. I've got a buddy of mine who's interested in trying the game out alongside me. Once we get confident enough I'm gonna see if I can get some more people in my area playing it. Maybe this weekend I can get a test game in with the QSR and feel my way around it.

I have found a lot of places online to get the figures, btw, but I was hoping to find them at a FLGS first. Always like checking them before I go to the internet.

[Chronowraith]

As you should :-) Pay where you play is always a good policy. I get most of my models online as no place local sells Infinity miniatures. If they did, I'd make the drive to purchase them at the shop.

That's also the way I started Infinity. I bought Nomads and Haqqislam, taught myself, then taught my friend using my two factions. From there we just pulled people in as we found them and usually taught them based on Nomads, Haqqislam, of my buddy's Yu Jing.

[kabniel]

They're readily available on line. Stores have limited shelf space.

This is very true when it comes to stocking Infinity. Part of the issue with stocking infinity is it can be very difficult for a store to figure out what exactly to stock. With Infinity, a large number of models are not available in the loadouts available for the unit. It's common practice to proxy. Since all the models are pretty much WYSIWYG, there's less "well, we'll stock this box/blister and they can make these 5 units from it". It's easier, imo, since there are more unit boxes coming out. But if a model was ugly, people generally avoiding buying it in favor of proxy.

Then you get to the TAGs (Big stompy robots). Most of the PanO TAGs can easily proxy for the others, so why should the player bother buying the other one? How do you figure out which one you want if none stand out aesthetically to you?

That's probably the least eloquently I've ever tried to describe that set of opinions. I hope it makes sense. With such a large range of SKUs, the low *necessary* model count to play a game, and the common practice of proxy in this particular game; figuring out what to stock is difficult. Hence you see lots of stuff on the discount table. It's been on the shelf for more than 2 years. Not because it's bad or ugly, but because their player base already has the 1 they need. They don't need 2 or more.

[Chronowraith]

Most of the recoomendations for Infinity I"ve seen have stores stocking only the starter boxes. Minimal investment for the store but still gives a wide selection for people starting the game.

[kuffdaddy]

so i am thinking of playing and i want to avoid the pitfalls I have done before, I buy the models I like and then find out the have little in game value together and no synergy so kinda looking for premade lists. I'll just have to google foo it

[DarkLink]

Which faction do you like? Infinity definitely has models and units that are plain better than other options, but a little research should inform you. And the bad stuff is more playable in in some other games, the "good" and "bad" is more about the tools you have in your list than the specific models in a vacuum. For example, I play PanO and always always bring either a Nisse HMG or Aquila Guard HMG, because they can kill camo really well. As long as I have something that can kill camo, I'm good to go, it doesn't have to be either one of these in particular (and there are a few other options, I just happen to like those two models in particular).

[scadugenga]

With the exception of ITS tournaments requiring the use of specialist troops (docs, engineers, hackers, etc) for mission objectives, there are no true "useless" troops.

Everything can die to the basic weapon in the game.

That being said, it's more important to play the mission than go for a wipeout of your opponents troops. You can actually end up losing that way.

Unlike GW, Infinity units are pointed based solely on stats/skills/equipment, and not how useful the troop might be.

Dark: good to see you joined the Infinity crowd! Saw your name on the ITS rankings.

[Travis J Abraham]

I'm also interested in switching to Infinity, but I haven't really dug into it yet. Are there any really good sites that post Infinity vids?

[Erik Setzer]

I've been looking at Infinity myself and would love some good sites for beginners. I've been looking at some of the models and rules and stuff, trying to figure out a basic force with models I like. It's good to hear I can use the stuff I think looks cool. Looks like I could get a 300 point army for $130-$150, a little more money would get me some flexibility.

[Chronowraith]

I don't know of many sites that post videos. You could check Beasts of War as they post them occasionally but really, check out the community forums at Corvus Belli website or see if you have a local community facebook page.

Also on Facebook is the awesome WGC (Wargamers Consortium) Infinity page. Easily the best wargaming community anywhere on the internet.

300 points for $150 sounds about right but it depends on the faction and what specifically is in your list. If you take an Ariadna order monkey list then it will run more while a Yu Jing Heavy Infantry list will likely run less.

[Erik Setzer]

I was looking at Ariadna. Honestly, I'm not sure what all the models do, but there was a mix of assault rifles, carbines, shotguns, grenade launcher(s), missile launcher, sniper... Seemed like I was covering a lot of bases. But looking over more stuff, I'm now confused on the army building, because it seems you have like sub-factions or something and can't mix that much? Or their army builder just really, really confused me.

[daboarder]

I was looking at Ariadna. Honestly, I'm not sure what all the models do, but there was a mix of assault rifles, carbines, shotguns, grenade launcher(s), missile launcher, sniper... Seemed like I was covering a lot of bases. But looking over more stuff, I'm now confused on the army building, because it seems you have like sub-factions or something and can't mix that much? Or their army builder just really, really confused me.

there are the major factions (Or "VANILLA" factions)
Such as Panoceania, Yu Jing, Ariadna etc...

These get access to ALL the factions troops as they like (obeying the availabillity of course) So for example I could have a Jotum and a Knight in the same force.

Then you have the sectorials, basically sub factions, like Millitary Orders, Japanese sectorial army and the Caledonian Highlander army.

These lists have only have access to the faction forces that are inherently from that sectorial, usually with high availabillity (so Military orders doesn't have access to all the PanO troops, but in turn it gets to take more Knights)

In addition to this, Sectorial armies can use "link teams" A special method of using certain types of troops so that you activate them with a single order (and they get other bonuses based on the size of the link)

To put it crudely in 40k terms, the sectorials are kinda like codex "supplement" factions

[Erik Setzer]

I should probably do more reading the rulebook before trying to buy an army. Seems like I'll save some money and heartache.

[Chronowraith]

Play a couple of small games with proxy figures if you have to. The order mechanism coupled with the active/reactive player mechanism of the game can be difficult to learn/understand without actually stepping into the game. If you are solely focused on learning the entry level rules, then look in the rulebook for the introductory game on page 10 and step through that. Then read the basic rules section immediately after.

As DaBoarder already mentioned each faction has a number of subfactions (usually 2-3). The subfactions aren't all that dissiimilar from the primary faction. They offer the ability to use link teams which help with order efficiency since you can move multiple models with a single order (and the enemy only gets a single reaction per model) and they upgrade or downgrade the availability of certain units.

As for rules, definitely cover the N3 rulebook but make certain you find a copy of the Paradiso and Human Sphere PDFs as those have additional equipment and rules (in fact, sectorials and link teams are a human sphere rule).

[Grenndal]

I am also thinking about joining the Infinity community. I got the newest book and am starting to read it. I have watched both of Miniwargaming and Beast of war learn to play but I have a few questions.

1. finding a group to accept noobs. I don't know of any groups around the DC area that play infinity let alone if they are newbie friendly. Are groups usually open to new players or are they more elitist like the groups of fantasy that I have found?

2. Buying usless models. My hobby budget is tight and while I like some models, I am looking at you Moriarty, how do I know if I am getting the correct miniatures and not just going to get rolled everytime.

3. I really like the Moriarty model but it come with Tomcat Sergeant Major Carlota Kowalsky. I am guessing that Kowalsky is the actual model and moriarty is with her. if I wanted to use her would i need a group of tomcats as well?

Sorry for all the off the wall questions.

[Chronowraith]

I am also thinking about joining the Infinity community. I got the newest book and am starting to read it. I have watched both of Miniwargaming and Beast of war learn to play but I have a few questions.

1. finding a group to accept noobs. I don't know of any groups around the DC area that play infinity let alone if they are newbie friendly. Are groups usually open to new players or are they more elitist like the groups of fantasy that I have found?

2. Buying usless models. My hobby budget is tight and while I like some models, I am looking at you Moriarty, how do I know if I am getting the correct miniatures and not just going to get rolled everytime.

3. I really like the Moriarty model but it come with Tomcat Sergeant Major Carlota Kowalsky. I am guessing that Kowalsky is the actual model and moriarty is with her. if I wanted to use her would i need a group of tomcats as well?

Sorry for all the off the wall questions.



1. Most of the groups I know are pretty inclusive of new people. I can't speak for DC but the midwest groups frequently run demo days and have events such as escalation leagues, beginner/veteran team tournaments, and other fun style games to break new players into the rules. We've had hacker brawls, TAG Brawls, bike races, etc to acclimate new players to some of the more unusual or complex rules.

Where in DC are you? I know of at least one group in the Northern Virginia area. The Warcor over there is Certs.

2. 99% of the miniatures in Infinity are not useless. Seriously, for killy power almost everything is useful. If you go scenario play like ITS or YAMS then keep specialists in your list as appropriate and you'll do fine. Otherwise, buy what you want/like and keep playing with it. Eventually you'll learn the ins and outs of the units and profiles and things will come together. Sure, you might replace a spare model or two but it really isn't that bad.

2a. Infinity has a steep learning curve. While veterans will frequently play newcomers with kid gloves and be more forgiving of mistakes, that isn't everyone. Prepare to lose the first several games but simply make them learning experiences. Ask your opponent for input on what you could do better and don't let them off the hook with easy answers like "Well you could have taken X instead of miniature Y". Ask them to comment on what you did take, not what you could take.

3. Carlotta Kowalsky is a character who happens to be a Tomcat. There are no "units" in the same sense as 40k. You don't have to play multiple Tomcats or keep them in some sort of coherancy. If you just want Kowalsky and Moriarty, then just play with them. She's pretty awesome.

[daboarder]

I am also thinking about joining the Infinity community. I got the newest book and am starting to read it. I have watched both of Miniwargaming and Beast of war learn to play but I have a few questions.

1. finding a group to accept noobs. I don't know of any groups around the DC area that play infinity let alone if they are newbie friendly. Are groups usually open to new players or are they more elitist like the groups of fantasy that I have found?

2. Buying usless models. My hobby budget is tight and while I like some models, I am looking at you Moriarty, how do I know if I am getting the correct miniatures and not just going to get rolled everytime.

3. I really like the Moriarty model but it come with Tomcat Sergeant Major Carlota Kowalsky. I am guessing that Kowalsky is the actual model and moriarty is with her. if I wanted to use her would i need a group of tomcats as well?

Sorry for all the off the wall questions.

Hey, welcome to the game

I wouldnt watch MWG they arent really trying to actually learn the rules and the content is pretty sparse
Guerrilla Miniature Games and Gamingwiththecooler as well as Jon Jones are much better channels for your infinity fix.

1) I dont know how to help other than ask on the official forum or one of the many social media pages, but most groups run escalation leagues (ITS and CB supported) often and they are a great way to build up the game

2) No useless models, literally NOT a thing in infinity. Plus people are fine with loadout and proxy in general particular with newer players

3) No idea on nomads sorry, check out the official army builder, it'll help

heres something else that was brought up recently
Its highly likely that in one of your first games you will be utterly destroyed by an alternative deployment model (AD is the most common) please do NOT let yourself get disheartened, its almost a right of passage we have all been through and had to learn how to cope with.

[Chronowraith]

heres something else that was brought up recently
Its highly likely that in one of your first games you will be utterly destroyed by an alternative deployment model (AD is the most common) please do NOT let yourself get disheartened, its almost a right of passage we have all been through and had to learn how to cope with.

Along with Ramboing Camo/TO Camo, Smoke+MSV shenanigans, Total Reaction Bots, and a whole host of other tactics. Suffice it to say, these things will happen but as long as new players see them as a learning opportunity and the veteran player explains what he is doing, why, and then (after the battle) explains what the new player can do to defend themselves it's all good.

[CenturyChild533]

Within each faction of the game (often called a "vanilla" faction, such as Ariadna) there are what's called Sectorial armies. These change the availability (AVA) of certain troops, take away access to some others, and give you access to Link Team special rules that are in the Human Sphere/Campaign Paradiso PDF.

For example, in Ariadna, USAriadna Grunts are AVA 2 and Line Kazaks are AVA Total (meaning you can have any number of them). If you build a USAriadna Sectorial army, you cannot take Line Kazaks, but USAriadna Grunts become AVA Total and linkable.

I'd recommend starting with a vanilla force and finding out what types of units you like using before choosing a sectorial force, though. They can be powerful but also kind of limiting. Hopefully that helps some.

[chromedog]

3. I really like the Moriarty model but it come with Tomcat Sergeant Major Carlota Kowalsky. I am guessing that Kowalsky is the actual model and moriarty is with her. if I wanted to use her would i need a group of tomcats as well?

Sorry for all the off the wall questions.

Firstly, asking questions is how you learn stuff, so don't apologise for them.

Carlotta Kowalski and moriarty are A unit. You cannot buy them separately for your army list (If you select her, she comes with it the little robot dude).
You do NOT need to also have Tomcats in your list in order to take her. She is not an "upgrade" for a unit, but a named character who shares some history (fluff) with the unit.

The army list does show separate points for each model, but you may note that you only pay HER cost to get both (the separate cost for Moriarty is for games where you need to dominate an area, and the separate points only matter then).