Bretonnia Rumor Roundup

[Bigred]

Initial Rumors 5-20-2014 via 40K Warzone (http://40kwarzone.blogspot.com/2014/05/new-bretonnia-rumours.html#more)

Release: July 2014 (contradictory chatter says later in the year)
All new Grail Knight Kit
New option - Grail Knights on Foot

and this "mystery mini"
8908

via Voice of the Chaos Gods 6-14-2014


I see on the british site the armybook is "no longer available", the american say "on stock". Could mean the storage in the usa are still filled, while they are no longer available in the UK, means they are no longer produced.

About the first release: it will be a combi knights box set. Otherwise the Bretons will probably only get 2 weeks of releases. Pre-orders are most likely June 28th

-Pre order date for the first bretons will be probably june 28th. The Armybook will come one or two weeks later.
-Questing Knights & Grail Kights Box Set
-Large Grail Reliquae Model

[Mr Mystery]

I'm very interested to see what they do with the Bretonnians.

They took a bit of a hit with 8th Edition improving infantry so much (it didn't nerf Cavalry at all. It just left them as is for the most part...), but nothing you couldn't really get around with judicious application of Lance Formation (enough to bag the ranks needed to prevent the opponent being steadfast).

But.....Wood Elves turned out really nicely. They took a slightly ill defined army, and really set it's character.

Personally, I'd like to see slightly different vow affects. So Knights Errant get fairly low level ones, Knights of the Realm get useful ones, Questing Knights get better ones, and Grail Knights get filthy ones, to represent the competency and chivalry of a Knight increasing as he progresses in his career.

Mostly, I want to see Peasants remains utterly bobbins, and there to make up the numbers. After all. They're peasants. It's like giving me a stick which has been sharpened by showing a picture of a spear, and telling me to try and kill stuff.

Oh, and maybe a different way of working the Prayer. Originally, it gave you protection against ungentlemanly attacks, like shooting. Then it became a Ward save in completely honourable combat, which is silly. Maybe a choice of prayers, selected like magic lores at the time of list creation (which to my mind was a massive improvement. No more highly convenient mages tailored to thrash your opponent).

[Wolfshade]

I've always wanted to do Brets, it seems like they have a very elegant way of organising society, plus who doesn't want knights dashing around like it was the Dark Ages.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh we're Feudal here in the UK still. It's just us Plebs get to vote for who we want to primarily look out for their own vested interests every few years.

[Wolfshade]

Yeah but you should only have votes if you have land...

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Dark Ages? Pff. More like 13th-14th Century High Middle Ages, amirite? (I am right).

Bretonnians are cool. First fantasy army I did, way back.

[Mr Mystery]

Yeah but you should only have votes if you have land...

Well, only the wealthy can realistically compete for control of Parliament.....so it's much the same thing.

[Wolfshade]

Probably. I just wanted to avoid trying to spell "Medieval" (sp?)

What historically put me off was the cost of metal knights...

[Psychosplodge]

plus any metal knight type model was a pain in the arse to keep mounted on their plastic stead.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The metal Green Knight is a chuffing nightmare. Such a good model, though.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Yeah but you should only have votes if you have land...

Feudalism: Your Count Votes.

[Wolfshade]

Feudalism": Your Count Votes.

lol I like that :)

[Lord-Boofhead]

selected like magic lores at the time of list creation (which to my mind was a massive improvement. No more highly convenient mages tailored to thrash your opponent).

Is that an actual rule or just a tournament convention?

[Solution9]

I would like to see the old school arrow head lance formation. It's what makes the Brets so unique.

[Mr Mystery]

Is that an actual rule or just a tournament convention?

Officially official rule.

It gave certain armies a serious advantage over others. For instance - Empire. Cheap, functional wizards with access to all 8 lores. Take two or three, and then just pick whichever lore helps best against your opponent's army (like Lore of Metal against Chaos or Bretonnians). Then...Orcs and Gobbos. Single lore for Gobbos, single lore for Orcs. Sometimes it's dead useful, other times not so much.

But now your lore is part of list selection, of which I fully and whole heartedly approve.

However, prior to officially official rule, it may have been a tournament only thing.

[Wildeybeast]

I wouldn't be surprised to see either prayers or vows go. They are trying to streamline the books somewhat and create less variance and options whilst still having the odd rule for character. Look at wood elves losing spites and kindreds.

[talinka]

YES! I'll finally be able to finish my complete MLP army (no knights, just many different kinds of horsies, Pegasi, Unicorns and Alicorns.)
Most likely will post pictures once I get really into painting it.

[Kirsten]

the bretonnian character looks like an early 90s metal model. weird looking dude.

[Slinkyskink]

the bretonnian character looks like an early 90s metal model. weird looking dude.

Yeah, but in a good way? Kinda like him if he's the real deal.

Dunno why but I got "you chose..poorly" in my head. Might just get him and paint him as an old knight with his grail...:D

Glad to see the Brets aren't out ta the game!!

[angrybear]

Yeah, but in a good way? Kinda like him if he's the real deal.

Dunno why but I got "you chose..poorly" in my head. Might just get him and paint him as an old knight with his grail...:D

Glad to see the Brets aren't out ta the game!!

Not to destroy your hope but that mini is not new. Its a test model send to GW by a sculptor. Atleast thats the information on the round table (bretonnia forum) and they are the experts. I hope bretonnia gets redone soon but this rumour is unlikely.

[Kirsten]

looking forward to Bretonnia. on the one hand, I expect they will lose a lot of their cool items, vows etc. which will suck, but I am sure they will add some cool units, and hopefully more plastic knights.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Everyone is losing most of their Items though as we've gone back to mostly shared items.

- - - Updated - - -


Officially official rule.

It gave certain armies a serious advantage over others. For instance - Empire. Cheap, functional wizards with access to all 8 lores. Take two or three, and then just pick whichever lore helps best against your opponent's army (like Lore of Metal against Chaos or Bretonnians). Then...Orcs and Gobbos. Single lore for Gobbos, single lore for Orcs. Sometimes it's dead useful, other times not so much.

But now your lore is part of list selection, of which I fully and whole heartedly approve.

However, prior to officially official rule, it may have been a tournament only thing.

Seems like a weird rule that only comes into effect in Tournaments, have you got a page ref?

In pick up/friendly games at club I can rewriteb my High Elf list to have a different lore each pick up game in the same night and change nothing else, but its still a total re-write.

At least WYSIWYG curbs that sort of shenanigans in the Empire, unless like me you own a wizard of every lore and remember to take all of the to Club night...

[Kirsten]

Everyone is losing most of their Items though as we've gone back to mostly shared items.


I know. it is the one thing I really dislike about the current edition, it was a really bad idea.

[Wildeybeast]

Everyone is losing most of their Items though as we've gone back to mostly shared items.

- - - Updated - - -



Seems like a weird rule that only comes into effect in Tournaments, have you got a page ref?

In pick up/friendly games at club I can rewriteb my High Elf list to have a different lore each pick up game in the same night and change nothing else, but its still a total re-write.

At least WYSIWYG curbs that sort of shenanigans in the Empire, unless like me you own a wizard of every lore and remember to take all of the to Club night...

Page 490, under the spell generation section. It simply says that you should choose your lore when writing your army list, so it really depends on when you write your list. If your local gaming venue is happy with people writing lists just before the game, then it's not an issue. I imagine most people go to games (both pick up and planned) with lists already written to save time. If so, your lore should be written on that list. Most people tend to pick lores to complement their own armies, rather than counter the opponents, and with the exception of metal against armour heavy armies, there aren't really any lores which are massively advantageous against particular armies.

[Kirsten]

certainly a lot of Bretonnian stuff missing from the GW Website

[Lord-Boofhead]

I know. it is the one thing I really dislike about the current edition, it was a really bad idea.

I'm in two minds about it I like the shared items, I just witsh we had at least double the number of Army specific items in each book.

[Kirsten]

yeah I have most of the current 8th edition books and pretty much none of the unique items interest me, and the majority of the shared ones are pretty boring.

[Houghten]

I wouldn't be surprised to see either prayers or vows go. They are trying to streamline the books somewhat and create less variance and options whilst still having the odd rule for character. Look at wood elves losing spites and kindreds.

I'm sad about the spites, but I'm not convinced we lost all that much when the kindreds went.

Wardancer kindreds became Shadowdancers.
Waywatcher kindreds became Waystalkers.
Eternal kindreds wouldn't gain you anything any more because the Eternal Guard Fighting Style rule is no longer a thing.
Glamourweave kindreds likewise wouldn't do much, now that you don't need the Forest Spirit special rule to join units of Forest Spirits.
If you really want to be a member of a Wild Rider kindred you can just take a mount and a Talisman of Protection, and maybe the Helm of the Hunt.
Alter kindreds were weird. Did anybody use them?
Scout kindreds, I'll grant you we don't really have a way to get back (though you could pop a character into a unit with the Banner of the Hunter King for a similar effect).

[Wildeybeast]

Yeah, we'd don't lose much, just pointing out how eu are streamlining some of the more funky stuff out of books. As long as Brets lose that lord with HKB, I'll be happy. :D

The rumour about two weeks of releases makes sense, that's what wood elves got and seems they are definitely scaling back Warhammer releases in favour of 40k ones.

[Chronowraith]

Yeah, we'd don't lose much, just pointing out how eu are streamlining some of the more funky stuff out of books. As long as Brets lose that lord with HKB, I'll be happy. :D

The rumour about two weeks of releases makes sense, that's what wood elves got and seems they are definitely scaling back Warhammer releases in favour of 40k ones.

Sadly.

I'm really hoping that these short releases are more due to GW's perception that Wood Elves and Bretts are not major sellers. I doubt it though given what was rumored back in the late winter and early spring about GW realigning the amount of support for Fantasy to match the demand.

I still don't get this approach. If a game is ailing and in need of support you don't just cut support back and let it languish. That certainly didn't get them anywhere with the Specialist games.

[Kirsten]

a combined grail/quest knight box and a plastic character box would be fine by me, nothing more is essential. the lord and battle standard models have gone from the website too, along with those knights, I would imagine that is what we get.

[Mr Mystery]

Just a rumour is just a rumour.

40k currently has more kits in dire need of an upgrade overall, especially with the increasing push away from Metal and Finecast that we seem to be seeing.

Warhammer hasn't done that badly, considering 40k is the focus. Every army has been given new units upon release, and the amount of non-plastic kits is dropping quite rapidly.

Besides, Warhammer as a game requires less variety of unit types compared to 40k. The tighter restrictions on how units move is a major one (and also one of my favourite things about Warhammer).

Let's look at the Bretonnian models. Peasants, Pegasus Knights, Knights Errant and Knights of the Realm are all in plastic already, and don't especially need updating (certainly not compared to Empire Knights and High Elf infantry....) Those also happen to be largely the meat and bones of any list. Only ones I can think of that really need updating are being updated, though a honking great Hippogryph would be nice :)

And one last observation. Warhammer never suffered 'the cull of the cool' that 40k did during 3rd, 4th and part of 5th, where all the really daft stuff (also the really fun stuff) was removed for whatever reason. 40k is currently having all that replaced and updated, alongside the refreshing of existing stuff which needs to be moved into plastic.

[Andrew Thomas]

Probably. I just wanted to avoid trying to spell "Medieval" (sp?)

What historically put me off was the cost of metal knights...

It's spelled correctly.

[baphomael]

Dark Ages? Pff. More like 13th-14th Century High Middle Ages, amirite? (I am right).

Bretonnians are cool. First fantasy army I did, way back.

More C13th. They mimic the style of the 1200s, the age of Richard I crusades etc. Not quite early medieval, not quite the late medieval/early modern of the Empire.

[Mr.Pickelz]

If Bretonnians would loose the frenchy flour de' lieese thing, (my apologies for the horrible misspelling) I would totally love to have a pure cavalry based army that worked. While I love the more germainc style of Empire's models, the rules just doesn't seem work. :(

[Solution9]

I'm really excited for the Bretts. It's my favorite army in the game. I'm just hoping for an improvment to their rules to have them be the best cav in the game like they should be. Go back to the old arrow head lance formation (like that will ever happen), see units of knights on foot as an option and the Lady's blessing to remain awesome. But what happens happens. I think the Wood Elf book is quite good so I have high hopes the Bretonnians will get similar treatment.

[Leon Raulstone]

Well, only the wealthy can realistically compete for control of Parliament.....so it's much the same thing.

Hey move to Africa :D Here everything is controlled by a well placed bribe, or plunder of your own country oO... Skaven comes to mind. :O

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Like the Wood Elf release, doesnt seem much - but it's better than being squatted. I'd rather have reduced support than none at all and believe me I know how it feels to be neglected as I'm an Epic fan.

[Kirsten]

Orks are fun and all, but hurry up, I am really excited for proper Bretonnian rumours, I have all the knights of the realm I need, give me some fun plastic characters and grails

[Reaper45]

If I ever start a Warhammer army, it will be Bretonnia. Really dig the look...

[Lord-Boofhead]

What do Brets NEED?

Plastic Hippogryph
Plastic Questing and Grail Knights.
Plastic Hero/Lord/BSB
Plastic Grail Damsels
Plastic Squre Cav
Plastic Grail Pilgrims
Plastic Trebuche (sp?)

Plus what ever new units. The list is a touch sparse.

New Hero choice, maybe a peasant one?
New 'Big Thing' Could be a dual kit with the Treb, maybe a big grail reliquary pulled by pilgrims?
Hermalots, basically Robin Hood and his merry men, they are in the WFRP Bret book.
Hunting/Truffle Hounds?

[Kirsten]

now that ork releases are mostly done, hopefully we will hear something soon

[dms505]

I think a mostly-plastic army starter for the Brets with this new edition could do a LOT of sales. I would enjoy starting them as well but I'd rather drop a couple hundred for 1500 points worth than buying the packages separately and dropping more like 4-500. Get people enough to play with on the cheap and then open up their options with the smaller sets to fill it up to 2500-3000.

[wisetiger7]

I've had a bret battalion box for like 7 years now, and have done nothing with it... sigh...

[razzeldazle]

I was so excited for July... and now...

[Stepfan]

Ahh come on GW I would totally start a Bret army.

[razzeldazle]

I was so excited for July... and now...

you and me both

[Mr Mystery]

Never trust rumours. With every release, a greater percentage are shown to be nonsense.

[Kirsten]

it will come at some point, can't be too far away now folks whatever rumours say, not many books left to update.

[razzeldazle]

it will come at some point, can't be too far away now folks whatever rumours say, not many books left to update.

There are books that have been updated twice since last bret book

[Solution9]

There are books that have been updated twice since last bret book

True, however, GW is kind of forced at this point to update those remaining books.

[razzeldazle]

I wish I had your faith in GW

[Mr Mystery]

No sir, I don't buy it.

Knights of the Bear? Really. Really? Siege Knights?

Foot Knights dualled with stinky Grail Pilgirms? Nope.

[Crownblade]

Knights of the Bear... if its true, they sound like they're something akin to the demigryph/Skullcrushers etc. of other armies. Makes sense to me that the Brets would have something similar. As for the Pilgrim-Foot Knights combo I agree that it sounds unlikely, but then that's only as long as the fluff surrounding pilgrims stays the same. If GW is changing the Bret's view on knights fighting on foot then maybe the Pilgrims are changed as well? I would like to know more about the Virtuous Knights/Lost Knights though. Lost Knights instantly causes images of ghostly knights in my mind, maybe the spirits of those questing knights who've fallen on the quest.

[White Tiger88]

If any of that is true Bretonnia is now officially the Alliance and needs some dwarfs..........

[onlyonepinman]

No sir, I don't buy it.

Knights of the Bear? Really. Really? Siege Knights?

Foot Knights dualled with stinky Grail Pilgirms? Nope.

Unless, of course, pilgrims are no longer stinky

[Crownblade]

So SW were next.... makes sense I suppose with the Sanctus campaign. Still, it's a shame. Well we can only hope that the Brets follow at some point.

[The_Gonk]

Perhaps if we all sent GW a pic of a Bret Knight with "Shut up & take my money"!?

[Kirsten]

sounds like a plan

[Wolfshade]

Or, or, bare with me, we all dress up and make a reliquary knight instead and cosplay that to WW

[The_Gonk]

Or, or, bare with me, we all dress up and make a reliquary knight instead and cosplay that to WW

I love this idea and I want to make beautiful idea-babies with it. :)

Is there a world record category for world's geekiest protest? A cosplayed update my soldier-dollies protest must be an awesome contender!

[Troll Factory]

5) Grail Pilgrims/Foot Knights: The multikit is based on pilgrims with additional armour to convert them into foot knights.

I hope that Pilgrimms will hold shields correctly not upside down

[Lord_Boofhead]

No sir, I don't buy it.

Knights of the Bear? Really. Really? Siege Knights?

I'm with you, Pegasus Knights are already Plastic.

[Lucidum]

I’m guessing the Bretonnians have taken so long to get released is that GW is going for a “full reboot” of the range, much like they did with Dark Eldar for 40k. We probably won’t see everything at once, but like…3 new plastic kits or dual-kits or plastic characters each week for two or three weeks.

I really like Bretonnia, they were the army that got me interested in Warhammer waaaaay back in 1998 (until Lizardmen caught my “ooh, shiny!” A.D.D. :P) I’ve always liked that they’re struggling to adapt to the “modern” Warhammer world, their chivalry and obstinate, fiercely independent nature is making them the underdogs, outdated compared to the swiftly-advancing Empire.

[Katharon]

I'm kind of late to the party, but did they release the 8th edition army book for the Bret's yet or are we going to have to wait another year?

[Chronowraith]

Not even on the most recent rumor list any longer. Best guess is "next year", possibly tied into 9th Edition.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

My guess is that the End Times will show us what direction Bretonnia will head in. I'd expect a pretty hard reboot next year, in conjunction with 9th ed.

[Katharon]

I just hope they don't try to phase out the Brets through some silly Undead story line.

[Psychosplodge]

YES! I'll finally be able to finish my complete MLP army (no knights, just many different kinds of horsies, Pegasi, Unicorns and Alicorns.)
Most likely will post pictures once I get really into painting it.

I've just come back to this thread, and how the bloody hell did I miss this post? :D

[graymouser17]

what about foot knights does not matter to me what they are just make sure they have everything a foot knight should have and includes scabbards for both sword and dagger and the correct type of dagger please nothing that should used for an empire knight please..

[Crownblade]

Just found the following rumor on faeit.

Another tidbit is that the Bretonnians will most probably be "squatted", because their imagery is not really copyrightable ... quite logical, they are almost totally "historic/mythic knights", but he doesn't know if they will disappear entirely, will be merged with something else, of be totally re-designed from the ground up.

Now I know the guy should be taken with a mountain sized load of salt, but given the recent rebrandings of armies and units to get the copyright, particularly the IG to AM, I'm thinking this has a ring of truth to it unfortunately. I sincerely hope it's not true, but....

[Wildeybeast]

This is nonsense. What exactly needs copyrighting about them? The term Bretonnia is unique to GW and presumably copyrighted, otherwise what else do they need to worry about? Using your example, all GW did was change the name. The models are exactly the same, since it pretty hard to copyright generic space troopers. Same with generic medieval French Knights.

[Charistoph]

This is nonsense. What exactly needs copyrighting about them? The term Bretonnia is unique to GW and presumably copyrighted, otherwise what else do they need to worry about? Using your example, all GW did was change the name. The models are exactly the same, since it pretty hard to copyright generic space troopers. Same with generic medieval French Knights.

Mostly the Lilly. As you said, it's rather iconic with French knights and Bretonnians both. With Empire Knights, they can at least put Moah Skulls or the twin-tailed comet on them to make them separate from generic Fantasy. Even the Chalice can be confused for Arthurian lore.

They need to shake things up a bit and give them new iconography in order to fully capitalize on the army. I wonder if they are willing to have the imagination for it, or will Bretonnia be relegated to just being "Black Templar" Empire.

[Wildeybeast]

Some iconography they could copyright would help, but I don't think they are overly bothered. If they were, there would be a whole load of new IG models with some new, unique iconography on them.

[graymouser17]

first thing is that they had the new characters in their codex why not do them and talking about the figures and also doing foot knights as well mounted knights because a lot of both fantasy and historical history but they have to do is using the same media that they are for their chaos lines all right.

[flipchuck]

Mostly the Lilly. As you said, it's rather iconic with French knights and Bretonnians both. With Empire Knights, they can at least put Moah Skulls or the twin-tailed comet on them to make them separate from generic Fantasy. Even the Chalice can be confused for Arthurian lore.

They need to shake things up a bit and give them new iconography in order to fully capitalize on the army. I wonder if they are willing to have the imagination for it, or will Bretonnia be relegated to just being "Black Templar" Empire.

I think the whole "reboot" or "reimaging" is because GW wants to copyright their stuff. That's the main reason The Imerial Guard had their name changed.

With Bretonnia, too much if it is based on and very similar to medvil knights and King Artur stories to the point where its not orginal enough to copyright it. And GW has been at least hinting about copy rights their stuff and inforcing it by the way they make the fan based website for warhammer stuff get shut down when they post rules and such. They creamed a lot of Mordhiem websties that posted PDF files. I guess GW wants to do the same with the rest of their stuff.

[Path Walker]

I've not read it all yet but I noticed in White Dwarf, Leoncouer is noted as channeling the soul of Giles de Breton in the battle report, so, has de Breton returned in this form?

[Bumm1987]

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Not trying to ruin it for anyone, but Gilles was the Green Knight this whole time and he is probably just channeling his power into Louen not possessing him or taking a new form through him. He wouldn't do that and doesn't need to because he has his own body.

[Crownblade]

Wow, Brets are back on the GW site, trebuchet and all...

[kglasgow]

Seems as though these rumors were way off. Bretonnia seems to be the red-headed step child of GW.