Incoming Blood Angels

[Aenir]

Just got the Email


Incoming! Blood Angels
This April the Blood Angels will be re-launched with an all-new Codex and range of plastic and metal miniatures. One of the oldest and noblest of all Space Marine Chapters, the Blood Angels have stood fast against the enemies of the Imperium since the Great Crusade and it was their Primarch Sanguinius, who laid down his life to aid the Emperor against Horus in the final hours of the Warmaster’s rebellion. The new Codex explores the background and history of these superhuman warriors like never before, and contains new artwork depicting some of their greatest battles and most powerful champions.
The Blood Angels have always been a powerful close combat army and have been made even deadlier thanks to a range of specialist wargear, the ability to field Assault Squads as Troops choices, and more Dreadnoughts than any other Space Marine Chapter, including a Death Company Dreadnought and the fabled Furioso Dreadnought. The Sons of Sanguinius will be deep striking onto a tabletop near you this April – now’s the time to practice painting red.

[Goresmack]

As much as the Blood Angels need a real codex, I'm bummed it's not the Dark Eldar, Necrons, or Tau . . . oh well, one more army down.

-Gore

[Mike X]

As much as the Blood Angels need a real codex, I'm bummed it's not the Dark Eldar, Necrons, or Tau . . . oh well, one more army down.

Sub-army, you mean.

And this sucks. My army is always mistaken for Blood Angels because the "core" color is red... but my color scheme is quite different aside from that. Now everyone will hop on the Blood Angels bandwagon, and people will think even more-so that my army is BA.

[LemanRussCommander]

Well as much as i disagree with anooootthhhherrr SM codex at least this is one more down till they redo the much needed Necrons, DE, SoB, etc. etc. etc. and make gaming groups a little more competative and varied. if you look at the glass half full view its a win win eventually

[Mike X]

Well as much as i disagree with anooootthhhherrr SM codex at least this is one more down till they redo the much needed Necrons, DE, SoB, etc. etc. etc. and make gaming groups a little more competative and varied. if you look at the glass half full view its a win win eventually

Kind of. This leaves only Black Templars as a variant list.

GW seems to always have a Space Marine chapter up its sleeve!

[Parcival]

I am going to feel so sorry for my wife in April. :D

[pgarfunkle]

I just spotted this in my email and thought straight away to post it here but you beat me to it Aenir. SO looking forward to April and my gf is away visiting family that month too. Just need a job to pay for all the Blood Angel goodness!

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[Cryl]

It was always gonna be them. Space Hulk...........

yup, very true. Their codex was very old and did need an update. I'd have prefered necrons or DE but it's encouraging to see the older books getting the attention they need.

[pgarfunkle]

True Aldramelech, my local GW manager has been unofficially confirming them for a while, but its nice to have an official date.

[Gir]

This is the greatest peice of news ever, ever.

[sangrail777]

I'm really looking forward to any new fluff for the BloodAngels. I hope they tell more about the chapter almost being wiped out during the spacehulk mission so long ago. And maybe they will include fluff about Rafen (or make him a special charector) from the BloodAngel books. Till April will be a long wait but hopefully well worth it.

[twistinthunder]

Just got the Email

why the hell did you feel the need to make ANOTHER ****ING THREAD on blood angels, you could have made posted this in the ALREADY EXISTING blood angel rumour thread!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Cryl]

why the hell did you feel the need to make ANOTHER ****ING THREAD on blood angels, you could have made posted this in the ALREADY EXISTING blood angel rumour thread!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

wow... that was completely unecessary. I'm quite sure we'll all cope with another Blood Angels thread on the forum.

[Gotthammer]

why the hell did you feel the need to make ANOTHER ****ING THREAD on blood angels, you could have made posted this in the ALREADY EXISTING blood angel rumour thread!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Because not everyone looks at the rumour threads but will look at one confirming a release?

[Artein]

Meh, just another Space Marines....

[Rainboq]

Finally, I've been waiting for this. I've always wanted to play BA but I couldn't stand the pdf codex.

[Duke]

I thought it was interesting that they mentioned that Blood Angels would be a Dread heavy army... Maybe that is how they plan on dealing with the new Tyranid threat. Squadrons of Dreads anyone?

Duke

[Marshal2Crusaders]

I love it simply because it's another marine release. Take that dark eldar.

[Craz]

Wahoo! I have to say that I'm extremely happy about this. My boys in red will now need to get finished. heh.

[Duke]

Any one want to venture into what "... Even deadlier thanks to a range of specialist wargear..." means?

I thought: muliple assault/ power weapons in squads.

[wittdooley]

I thought it was interesting that they mentioned that Blood Angels would be a Dread heavy army... Maybe that is how they plan on dealing with the new Tyranid threat. Squadrons of Dreads anyone?

Duke

Wow, I sincerely hope that does not happen. Dreads are very rare by all fluff accounts, and fielding a squadron of them would make no fluffy sense. However, seeing as how they are one of the older chapters, I can totally see them having MORE dreads, and thus more variants.

I'm predicting a very Space Wolfish base pack, a few new metals (Cobulo anyone?), and, hopefully, some BA specific jump packs with fancy iconography and the like. They'll also almost assuredly do a Baal Pred add on pack (maybe IN the troop pack like Black Templars or Ravenwing?) or they could do a Blood Angels Vehicle pack that would include everything for the Baal and the Dread variants. That would be the balls.

[RocketRollRebel]

Wahoo! I have to say that I'm extremely happy about this. My boys in red will now need to get finished. heh.

ditto. I started my BA with 5th ed and they have been the army that I just kinda visit every now and then. I'm very excited to see what the new codex has to offer.

[Duke]

My ultimate wish would be furious assault on the army and assault vehicle rhinos!

[Craz]

Wow, I sincerely hope that does not happen. Dreads are very rare by all fluff accounts, and fielding a squadron of them would make no fluffy sense. However, seeing as how they are one of the older chapters, I can totally see them having MORE dreads, and thus more variants.

I'm predicting a very Space Wolfish base pack, a few new metals (Cobulo anyone?), and, hopefully, some BA specific jump packs with fancy iconography and the like. They'll also almost assuredly do a Baal Pred add on pack (maybe IN the troop pack like Black Templars or Ravenwing?) or they could do a Blood Angels Vehicle pack that would include everything for the Baal and the Dread variants. That would be the balls.

Sir, don't you mean 'that would be the Baals'? *incredibly lame BA pun*

[david5th]

I am going to be controversial but i hope they redo the Dante and Mephiston figures. Mephiston needs to be less static and Dante could just do with an update.

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[Artein]

Probably cover picture:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78892&d=1263108183

[Duke]

I am going to be controversial but i hope they redo the Dante and Mephiston figures. Mephiston needs to be less static and Dante could just do with an update.


That isn't contreversial, I agree with you... Both models are a bit lackluster. They did mention new metal figures, I'm sure one or both will be included in that.

Duke

[Duke]

I hopethqt isn't the cover... I'd like to see a more vampire looking blood angel on the cover

[Duskstorm]

I hope "dread heavy" actually means what it implies, i'd love to have a dread army, MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Also, i think the most important re-sculpt will be Lemartes, i could live with the others, but I can't bring myself to use the existing Lemartes.

[wittdooley]

That isn't contreversial, I agree with you... Both models are a bit lackluster. They did mention new metal figures, I'm sure one or both will be included in that.

Duke

I agree too. The mephiston figure could certainly be more fierce looking, since by all accounts he's the most ferocious melee fighter outside of Dante that the BA employ. I think Corbulo will see a new model because that dude just plain needs a power weapon or something. If they bring back Tycho, I'd say we'd CERTAINLY see a new model for him.

I would very much like to see Sanguinary Priests return...perhaps as unit upgrade characters?

Also, I can't say I'd mind seeing a bit of the lore from the 3 Blood Angels books brought in to line with the dex, i.e. Rafen being a unit upgrade character or even the Spear of Telesto as a weapon option for Dante.

EDIT: Oh, you're so right. The Lemartes sculpt is....rough.

Also, and we've all said this before... DANTE NEED ETERNAL WARRIOR!

[pgarfunkle]

Also, and we've all said this before... DANTE NEED ETERNAL WARRIOR!

I totally agree, even purely from a fluff stand point, he's been kicking around for 1,100 year and is old enough to call Calgar "The Kid" lol

[person person]

QFT, Dante needs Eternal Warrior, hopefully they don't redo his rules a whole lot besides that. Also can't wait to see if LRs get Overcharged Engines, that would be win.

[Just_Me]

I am going to be controversial but i hope they redo the Dante and Mephiston figures. Mephiston needs to be less static and Dante could just do with an update.

Mephiston especially, the current model is showing its age and entirely too static, he is pretty much the definition of "badass" for the BAs, so he should have a more dynamic sculpt.

[Stormlord Aeirling]

This is not good news for my eldar...

Still, i'm glad they are getting a new dex, they really need one.

[Dark_Templar]

I am pretty sure my bowels have evacuated better looking things than the current Lemartes.

Anywho, both he and Mephiston need new models, and I would love to get back into my BA, except I cannot paint red for crap. It just wont go on smoothly, just smears everywhere...stupid red.

[adtr42]

high chances are that isn't the cover as that painting is quite a few years old now.

[lobster-overlord]

[QUOTE=Duke;47248 Squadrons of Dreads anyone?[/QUOTE]


Why, yes, , Squadrons of Dreads I have and ready to go.... (10 to be exact).

I am so stoked to finally get a new codex.

John M.

[Auroth]

I'd like to see a more vampire looking blood angel on the cover

I'd actually like to see their vampire-ness played up a bit. Sure, they got the Black Rage, but let's make them REALLY different from the other marines.

Just a thought to add character, (Then again, the Blood Angels are pretty colorful)

Also, what if the BA get a HQ choice that allows them to field Drop Poddin' or Deep Strikin' Dreads as Fast Attack to keep in line with their tons of Dreads fluff!?

Hell, I say give them the option for a Dread HQ choice!

[Dark_Templar]

I would like them to be further distinguished from vanilla marines, but not be made ridiculous due to their vampiness. I do not think they should make them ride bats for example (cough*Canis*cough), as you need to draw the line somewhere.

Make the fluff interesting, the models nice, and give people a reason to care about the sons of sangy. Poor guy couldn't find any armour to fit him due to his wings, and therefore copped a good swording from Horus.

Anyways, my point is that I stopped playing BA in 3rd because they just bored me, and I am hoping this new Dex will bring them back to full strength.

[Wolfshade]

I am so looking forward to this. Finally I'll get rhinos that I can dissembark troops from! and hopefully get storm sheilds that work against shooting attacks. But the idea of new sculpts I am in two minds, first I think it would be awesome to have new sculpts especially mephiston who is a cc monster but on the other hand I am sentimentally attached to the old iconic ones...:D

[Warpath]

I've been playing BA since 2nd edition, the 3rd edition codex was nice but it lacked the fluff. I've been waiting for this codex update for 2 years now, and i'm really hoping it to be a good one.

Some things im really hoping for; Eternal warrior for Dante, Invulnerable save for Mephiston and pleeeease give Corbulo a power weapon! and give our veteran assault squads heroic intervention.

I am also wondering if our jump infantry would be so awesome that we wouldnt field any termies at all, i would love to use my space hulk models.

[Wolfshade]

pleeeease give Corbulo a power weapon! and give our veteran assault squads heroic intervention.

I always wonder if he should, I always thought that he would be too busy trying to make sure he doesn't spill his cup to worry about CC and so I've always used him in a supporting role and in that mind set he doesn't need the power weapon, but last game I played he ended up base to base with an avatar and held him at bay for two turns (before mephiston walked up and killed him) and I would have loved to have had a power weapon in that instance.

I think giving all the ICs a jump pack option would be cool, imagine corbulo swooping around with a jumpy DC or VAS or both zoom zoom zoom!:cool:

[Stormlord Aeirling]

I think giving all the ICs a jump pack option would be cool, imagine corbulo swooping around with a jumpy DC or VAS or both zoom zoom zoom!

Wouldn't he spill his little red grail?

[RocketRollRebel]

Hell, I say give them the option for a Dread HQ choice!

Actually in one of the BA novels I believe the Blood Swords chapter master is a dreadnought. I could get behind a dread HQ character who maybe makes them scoring? I don't know about dread squads or anything like that tho. You could make some brutal armies with it but over all it just seems a little silly to me.

[Wolfshade]

Wouldn't he spill his little red grail?

Perhaps it has a lid like a tupaware cup or something?

[Stormlord Aeirling]

They'd have to put that in the fluff

"Corbulo carries the sacred red grail, which he modified to have a tight fitting tuabaware cap when the new codex came out as he said most of his defeats were because he was paying too much attention to not spilling it"


Actually in one of the BA novels I believe the Blood Swords chapter master is a dreadnought. I could get behind a dread HQ character who maybe makes them scoring? I don't know about dread squads or anything like that tho. You could make some brutal armies with it but over all it just seems a little silly to me.

Perhaps they will include a chaplain dreadnought. That will be good for blood angels players everywhere.

And yeah, they might have some scoring dreads too.

[Wolfshade]

They'd have to put that in the fluff

"Corbulo carries the sacred red grail, which he modified to have a tight fitting tuabaware cap when the new codex came out as he said most of his defeats were because he was paying too much attention to not spilling it"

Love it!


Perhaps they will include a chaplain dreadnought. That will be good for blood angels players everywhere.

And yeah, they might have some scoring dreads too.

I don't think it would be realistic, but why not shoot for the moon, deathcompany dreadnought mob lead by a chaplian dreadnought. :eek::eek:

[Brass Scorpion]

Here's the latest announcement on the GW website (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=7400003a). It just went up a few minutes ago. Not a lot of info yet.

[twistinthunder]

Any one want to venture into what "... Even deadlier thanks to a range of specialist wargear..." means?

I thought: muliple assault/ power weapons in squads.

it means this!:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78921&d=1263154162


i personally think its a one handed melta for assault squads.

also:

3 plastic kits one of which uses the valkerie stand/base (space marine flyer?definatly NOT a thunderhawk)
1 of the other kits is also airborne.

courtesy of scryer in the darkness who has been told:

predator repackaged to include baal variant aswell as a plastic venerable dreadnaught to be release in march alongside battle missions.

the picture was also from scryer aswell as the valkerie stand/base bit (above).

new metal minis will on par between vanguard and legion of the damned.

the 'possible' new dex cover is not the new dex cover as it is a very old piece of artwork.

P.S. sorry out my outburst 3/4 pages back. :(

[twistinthunder]

Love it!


I don't think it would be realistic, but why not shoot for the moon, deathcompany dreadnought mob lead by a chaplian dreadnought. :eek::eek:

would be cool:

death company...... 0 pts

entire squad may be upgraded to be dreadnaughts for 115pts each. lol probably wont happen

[wittdooley]

Why does everyone want to run 10 million dreadnoughts? It's silly and just doesn't make sense, particularly in terms of the fluff.

[Warpath]

Yeah fluff-wise it doesnt make sense. But it would be really fun too.

I would rather field 100 asault marines tho.

[twistinthunder]

Why does everyone want to run 10 million dreadnoughts? It's silly and just doesn't make sense, particularly in terms of the fluff.

QFT i just thinks is funny.

people have read way into the:

"ability to field assault marines as troops."(most seen on dakka/warseer)

and

"more dreadnaught including the furioso and death company dreadnaughts."

quotes.

[Drew da Destroya]

That looks a lot like Dante's Melta-Pistol to me. Looks like a 3-up though, so Assault Marine Melta-pistols could be in the works. Either way, it bodes well for the Vamp Angels... let's just hope there isn't a Sgt Cullen in the book...

[Forever_Bunny]

My thought on the Dreadnought allocatation in the army is:

1 HQ Dread
3 Elite Dread (Gen, Ven, Fur)
1 or 2 Heavy Dread ( DC Fur, Ironclade)

I can see the ironclade being in the army being a assualt Dread, but I really hope they don't go crazy and make all the Dreadnoughts Death Company-able.

But I very excited to see the new codex

[twistinthunder]

why would a close combat oriented dreadnaught be doing in a heavy support slot? doesnt make sense to me i dont see many close combat specialists in that slot.

[Melissia]

Meh, just another Space Marines....
Something along those lines. Good for them, I guess. *yawn*

[Drew da Destroya]

why would a close combat oriented dreadnaught be doing in a heavy support slot? doesnt make sense to me i dont see many close combat specialists in that slot.

Ork Dreds are in the Heavy slot... and those aren't a shooty choice, despite the gun options.

[Forever_Bunny]

When I did that, I thought it would be a silly place for the Ironclade but I didn't think that they would put a 4th deadnought choice in the elite slot and it would be even more silly to put a deadnought in the Fast Attack, or Troop choices.

But more werider thing have happened.

P.S. The might not even get the Ironclade at all...that also possible as while

[Duke]

I really like the idea of a Melta Pistol... very cool.

Not sure what to think about the "airborne," releases.

I agree, though tons of Dreads seems neat, I really want Assault marines to be awesome! Something like VAS given melta pistols and heroic intervention that can be used with HQ's. Then giving regular assault marines a special run that is on 2d6 choose the highest. Or fleet (now Im getting out of control, but hey a Trygon has fleet!)

I would also like to have the ability to have Dante take off his Jump pack if I want to. Though I would love to see him with the Spear of Telestro I don't think he will. The simple reason is that Dante is a play on Dantes "inferno," his weapons and armour all draw their names from that piece of writing. I could see Mephiston with the spear though.

As I think about it I think GW will try to push all towards running a ton of Assault troops, either in Rhinos or with jump packs.

Duke

[Duke]

When I did that, I thought it would be a silly place for the Ironclade but I didn't think that they would put a 4th deadnought choice in the elite slot and it would be even more silly to put a deadnought in the Fast Attack, or Troop choices.

But more werider thing have happened.

P.S. The might not even get the Ironclade at all...that also possible as while

What about something tottally random, like a dread with a jump pack! lol

Duke

[Craz]

Damn it, make me want to make a Gundam army, don't you, Duke? :P

[Melissia]

I really like the idea of a Melta Pistol... very cool.
We've had inferno pistols (which ARE melta pistols) for a long while, Duke :P

[rbryce]

agreed with mel, though it doesnt have the melta rule, it does the same thing(2d6 armour pen. at 1/2 range)

[Melissia]

It doesn't have the melta rule because it was released back in third edition. It still is counted as a melta weapon. This is most obvious in the Eldar FAQ regarding the Avatar.

[rbryce]

as i said agreed :), i was just expanding on what was in your post.

[Duke]

Well we had a melta pistol before your codex was invented! Perdition pistol FTW... Im just glad my Angels (might) be getting in enmasse.

Duke

[Dark_Templar]

Maybe this is all a lead up to an elaborate April Fool's joke?

Anyways, if they get the fluff and feel right, it may be enough to drag me back to the Blood Angels after 10 years.

[sangrail777]

What I really didn't like was that the do all this talking of re-realising the BloodAngels and then at the end say look for the APRIL White Dwarf issue. Freaked me out at first but I'm sure they wouldn't do another WD-Codex right........?
Well I'm hoping for at least a good new fluff section!

[Duke]

Trust me, I don't think GW is dumb enough to do another WD codex... Then again maybe we are. Either way I don't care as long as I get my squads of dreads with jump packs! lol

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

I would also like to have the ability to have Dante take off his Jump pack if I want to.

You can always declare him "walking" each time he moves rather than invoking the jump pack :-) They'd not likely give you the option to get the points back or have another choice for him if he did have the ability to be fielded with or with out it.

John M>

[Duke]

It is more about being able to put him in a transport than points really.

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

Ah but of course. he needs to be able to ride in the Transport Dread with Jump Pack that counts as your HQ choice.

[Dark_Templar]

Ah but of course. he needs to be able to ride in the Transport Dread with Jump Pack that counts as your HQ choice.

Which can call down orbital bombardments.

[Duke]

So I saw this on a German site (linked into from Warseer)... Discuss. Some interesting stuff here, do we think this is a credible list? Or does it go the way of my Dread with jump pack wish-listing?


background:
very baroque feeling and images, think of Phantom of the Opera
history of Blood Angels in full, four succession chapters on one page each
in the end of m41 curse stronger than before, Mephiston is the only hope
Mephiston is the focus of the book, 2 pages of story
Scouts more savage, barbaric, hardly restrained
reference to space hulk campaign
fantastic story of Dante and 200 jump pack marines descending on demon world

plastic boxes:
Blood Angel Assault Squad
Honour Guard
Land Raider Tantalus

metal boxes:
Techmarine Victor and Servitor Unholt
Exalted Assault Squad
Death company
Blood Angel Scouts

blisters:
Lord of Death
Commander Dante
Sanguine Priest Faustus

Rules:
army wide special rule: Furious Charge
9 Unique Characters, 7 Blood Angels, 3 variants of Tycho
Mephiston over 300 points!
cybots: cheaper
Furioso AV 13, normal: fast attack, venerable: elites
Scouts: fleet of foot, without sergeant: rage
Assault Squad: troops
Tactical Squad sergeant: Devastor weapons twin-linked if fired at targets in proximity to auspex
Honour Guard and veterans one entry, lots of options, may assault after deepstrike
new fast attack with wings, S5 weapons, stormbolters an fall back
death company fully optional, not bound by number of squads
Devastor: lascannon cheaper than space wolves
new Land Raider with lots of assault cannons


And this little extra bit from the GW website:

"With an almost legendary reputation for the speed and ferocity of their assaults, expect brutal Deep Strike attacks, super-charged Rhinos and a whole host of exciting new options." (www.games-workshop.com, retrieved Jan 12 2010)

Does exciting new options mean things like a new Land Raider Variant with perhaps 3x TL assault Cannons? Or other goodies we may have dismissed earlier?

Duke

Source:www.gw-fanworld.net page 20, post #197

[energongoodie]

When do you think we are likely to get our first sneak peaks at some models? I'm thinking real soon.

[MarshalAdamar]

I'm looking foward to seeing the new minis! I'm especially interested in the flyer and the new LR??

[B_Steele]

I'm looking foward to seeing the new minis!

Don't worry Marshal; you will see them...across the table in my army! :)

For Sanguinius!

[The.Justinian]

So I saw this on a German site (linked into from Warseer)...
plastic boxes:
Blood Angel Assault Squad
Honour Guard
Land Raider Tantalus (or Tantalus Lander, depending on Stories)

Rules:
army wide special rule: Furious Charge
9 Unique Characters, 7 Blood Angels, 3 variants of Tycho
Mephiston over 300 points!
cybots: cheaper
Furioso AV 13, normal: fast attack, venerable: elites
Scouts: fleet of foot, without sergeant: rage
Assault Squad: troops
Tactical Squad sergeant: Devastor weapons twin-linked if fired at targets in proximity to auspex
Honour Guard and veterans one entry, lots of options, may assault after deepstrike
new fast attack with wings, S5 weapons, stormbolters an fall back
death company fully optional, not bound by number of squads
Devastor: lascannon cheaper than space wolves
new Land Raider with lots of assault cannons (less likely, Tantalus lander rumor taking shape)

"With an almost legendary reputation for the speed and ferocity of their assaults, expect brutal Deep Strike attacks, super-charged Rhinos and a whole host of exciting new options." (www.games-workshop.com, retrieved Jan 12 2010)

Does exciting new options mean things like a new Land Raider Variant with perhaps 3x TL assault Cannons? Or other goodies we may have dismissed earlier?
Source:www.gw-fanworld.net page 20, post #197

1) It turned out that most of the Tyranid stuff from Germany was true. I think We can think of this as preview, some of it wrong, most of it right.Either someone is very good at taking snippets and piecing them together without making mistakes, or has learned how to pick through GW's garbage exceptionally well.

2) I'm going to take this data and conjecture what we can about the likely army list unless there's an FOC modulation as there was with SWolf HQ's.


I'm doing this to project what we know, what we have from the rumors, and what we are sure to be pushed to buy into a coherent whole. I'm trying to leverage the unique points of BA as I recall them...in the SW dex everything that was special about the wolves got its amps turned up to eleven. We have no reason to think otherwise.

Call this a wishlist if you like. I call it an intelligence assessment.
(CONJECTURAL)
HQ:
(from BunBun @ warseer:)
Dante- As is now but axe will be +1S. Can take an honor guard assault squad.
Lemartes- Can restrain the Death company.
Corbulo- Will allow unit he joins to be Fearless and Feel no Pain. Grail counts as a holy relic.
Moriar- Death Company Venerable Furioso Dreadnought. Nearly duble the number of attacks of a normal dreadnought.
Tycho- Gives preferred enemy against Orks.
Sergeant special character- No details as yet.
(end BunBun)
Captain (unlocks and honor guard (conjecture); unlocks troop bikers per SM dex (conjecture).
SC's etc. (Conjecture, some kind of character that enhances flamers; makes dreads scoring, etc.)

ELITE
Veterans/Honor Guard
(rumored elsewhere from biglou) SC dread w/1-3 bodyguard of other dreads (deathco), takes up a heavy slot too.
Terminators that are esp. good at teleports (noted in press release text)
Venerable (Venerable Furioso)
Scouts? (might end up in Troops or FA; they're fleet, which is interesting.
Techpriest (incl. special one ordered.
Unholdt and Tech Buddy: this appears to be one of the release boxes, an SC

NEW 1/14: techmarine with an MC mega-servitor (or mutant marine) buddy. The MC is said to be armed w/a "4 barrelled cannon" on its right arm, if this means an Assault Cannon or some kind of special weapon, can't say. Given that the rest of the list lacks a large blast weapon (or at least large blast is crowded out, who's gonna take a whirlwind with all this cool stuff?, we may see it here

TROOPS
Assault Squad, some # of free p'pistols and two Assault weapons. conjecture: Storm shield option for sgt.
Tacsquad with Auspex sgt, supercharged rhinos. NEW 1/14: removed hypothesis on dedicated LR.
Conjecture: Cheaper upgrade on Razorback to Heavy flamers/assault cannon.
Scouts? (with a box set on release this is going to have some push to it, don't know if it will be an abundance or a quality push). NEW 1/14: possibility of dedicated LSS.

FA
Squad with wings (exalted assault sqad) (likely vampire angel aesthetic) will DS, Storm Bolters, S5 sword (frost axe analogue). (conjecture: likely to have an invulnerable save).
Land Speeder Storm with (at least) fluff on scouts riding to hackzone in it. Possible rule allowing scouts to disembark/assault on turn of landing (I believe that Codex marines can't?). Possible rule allowing cerebus launcher to affect other nearby squads.
Furioso Dread, has fleet, maybe hellhound template projection ability (or upgrade to it).
(possibility of Baal pred here when unlocked by a character)
Scout bikers with extra mad max flavor. Conversion required, (no release) so not likely to be anything amazing.
Bikers...perhaps P'cannon or Heavy flamer option on the attack bike. CCW likely standard (unlike marine bikers)
(NEW 1/14) The Tantalus Lander. This theory keeps holding more water the more I look into it. Armed with a pair of ACs underneath (at least) and maybe a pair of MLs. As we never saw the Raven Guard lander from FW we were expecting, and so many people have heard of 'a plastic thawk' this year, this think is the convergence of all those ideas. Some suggestion that the box has Ultramarine paintjob, indicating that all chapters might get access via Battle missions.

HSUPP
(NEW 1/14, this has lost water in favor of the lander theory) Fancy Land Raider (with assault cannons?)
Fancy Devastators with cheap LC, (CONJECTURE) maybe ability to shoot from moving rhino. Buffed shooting from tac squad auspex.
Ironclad Dread (with the push for dreads this will land here, perhaps with an option for a hellhound weapon)
Baal Pred, possibly with new sponson options or POMS. Possibility of swapping turret w/Assault cannons for a hellhound weapon.

EDIT: added stuff from this thread to the cognate:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=186717

[david5th]

If this is true, is it too late for me to go back in time and stop me from starting an IG army.

[The.Justinian]

If this is true, is it too late for me to go back in time and stop me from starting an IG army.

There's a good deal of it that is my own conjecture, and another good deal of it that's based on shaky rumors from elsewhere. I want to be really clear--there's a mix of hypotheses, educated guesses, and pure supposition based on what GW likes to do in my above post. I think as a living document it might be better to go this way than the current SOP of rumor summaries unbacked by logic...with something like the above we could argue, vote as a jury, and try and keep a 'best educated guess' together.

I play IG too, and don't get me wrong, the Dreadspam and the possible flyer sound pretty attractive from a mobile warfare angle to me, too, but I wouldn't trade the real faces and the real deaths of men with families, the whole story of the most human army in the galaxy, away for some vampire emo space monks. (That's a tease/jest, fyi).

[Duke]

Wrong thread, wtf how did that happen?

[darth_papi76]

I don't play Blood Angels, but I do like to see other armies get nice things.

[Duke]

Yea it is bice to see other armies get nice things... Generally becuase that means when the finally get around to your army you can trash all those nice things!

[rle68]

yea it is bice to see other armies get nice things... Generally becuase that means when the finally get around to your army you can trash all those nice things!

qft !!!

[gcsmith]

um biglou isnt that reliable, i should know as a RL friend lol

[Duke]

As I have been going over all the new Rumours for Codex: Blood Angels all I can think is "I need to start saving now!" I already have 10k-15k of Blood Angels and I think I still will have to drop about 200-300 on the army when it comes out (if all these rumours are true.)

Duke

[Akimbo Lizard]

I'm thinking of feilding 3 squads of EAM and converting a Captain is have wings too, it's gonna look so astheictally pleasing

[Duke]

Eam?

[Brother Tibirius]

Guys with wings ....here we go i can hear it now... look a the bunch of Red flying vampire heretic lets kill them all...... wow thats gonna be cool , only time will tell

[The.Justinian]

I'm thinking of feilding 3 squads of EAM and converting a Captain is have wings too, it's gonna look so astheictally pleasing

I've been mulling over what we can logically garner from the Exalted Assault squad and about what to expect. Some folks are reacting to their description negatively, thinking it will be a unit of all fluff and no crunch, or, as i read in another's words, "fluffy as a gang of clowns." I think that, depending on how the unit hits, we're likely to later see a special character with their aesthetic...

Which means that there will (conjecturally) also be a winged SC in the 'dex.

As for their gear, stormbolters seems odd, given that it will deprive them of pistol bonus attacks; some are saying that melta pistols may rerelease with the codex, and this seems more in line with their texture. If not melta, I suspect default plasma pistols.

In terms of an invulnerable save, leveraging what we know about the aesthetic of the squad (angels) and remembering the painting of the death of sanguinus (his gold armor w/halo), I think their inv save will be 4+ from an Iron Halo.

Other revisions to my post yesterday:
Did some more reading on Bolter&chain, warseer. Moriar (the dread SC) likely in HQ (given the stated unreliability of Biglou, above), and (my theory) unlocking squadded dreads in HS. Moriar then has an IC type rule allowing him to join dread squads.

(passed down from B&C) Likely to see the LSStorm not in squads but as a dedicated for scouts, wherever it is they show up in the list (anybody's guess as good as mine, I guess Troops...but that's a...guess.

SC techpriest rumored to have an MC mutant/megaservitor buddy w/a "4 barrelled cannon"

[The.Justinian]

This is from the Bolter and Chainsword list.

I think we have some clarity here. It's not going to be a Land Raider variant (at least not for sure). It just might be a bit of linguistic garbling, and we may be seeing a Tantalus Lander.


QUOTE (Linksys @ Jan 14 2010, 10:14 AM) *
QUOTE (Carnus Caedes @ Jan 14 2010, 09:14 PM) *
Yet more fuel for the fire...

Some box cover layout.
Its gonna be a big release with no less than 10 boxes!!

box #1 Exalted: Space Marine, winged jump packs, rapier-like blades, wrist-mounted stormbolters, masks

box #2 Blood Angels Scouts: Scouts, but very post-apocalyptic feeling - like Fallout or Mad Max - chains, close combat weapons, the complete opposite to the generic neat vanilla scouts

box #3 Blood Angel Assault Squad: assault marines with BA regalia
there is a small icon on the right with a Terminator head, Bolter and Rhino silhouette

box #5 and #6: Death Company: another two boxes with jump packs, one black armor, one red armor, bareheaded, banner, storm shields

box #7 Tantalus Lander: kind of flying droppod with wings, land raider front, assault cannons under fuselage

box #8: Victor and Unholt: basic Techmarine and a new creature: a Tech-Hulk (not like the green comic guy but more akin to the World of Warcraft Abominations with
lots of tech-stuff stitched together - right arm is a four barreled cannon)
and there are two boxes with Ultramarine art instead of Blood Angel art

box #9 Venerable Dreadnought

box #10 Predator



The rumour situation is going to be even more confusing. A new user (me) is verifying/shooting down the rumours of more established user (Carnus Caedes) of the community. So, who is to be trusted?
But I have to do it, inaccurancies make me upset.
To say it straight away: I can offer you no proof of credibility, but i know that there is a certain leak and that this is the reason why there are so many rumours popping up. But there are lots of inconsistencies. So here I am, make of it what you want, but remember to take everything you hear with a pinch of salt.

It seems this guy has seen the actual art, because the description of Victor and the Exalted is pretty accurate, but he is way off in some other regards.
Maybe there are more than one piece of art for one box. There are definiately only two boxes with jump packs, one plastic box (for Assault Squads and Honour Guard and with additional bits for other Blood Angel units) and one metal box (Exalted). The Death Company comes also as a plastic set but afaik without jump packs (unless there is a second sprue in the box, but that would imply that there are also all the extra Blood Angel bits in there. That seems a bit redundant.). I don't know if they can take them regardless, because I haven't access to the army list. The third plastic is the big secret, I know nothing about it so it can be a Tarantula Lander but it don't have to. However it is in the army list and the description matches the drawing in the codex.
There are two more metal boxes (scouts + Victor) but they are not part of the initial release and some single metal miniatures, too. You can see the pictures in the showcase part in the book.


So there you have it folks; FA slot flyer (presumedly, unless only unlocked by character), with the landraider front door. Your mind blown yet? Other chapters might get access from battle missions (marketing ploy: you must buy this book for rules to use this amazing model), as I don't see GW releasing something this awesome only for a finite BA market.

Further, this list of box art is not only for the BA release, but for the new SM vehicle updates coming with battle missions. The Marines just may get this thing across the board.

And one more point to add credibility: The rumors of the Storm Eagle lander from FW, it may have gone plastic before it ever became resin. I was wondering why it hadn't shown up yet...

And of course, someone had the insight to put an LR on a Valk base and post it as the pic of the day. here at BOLS. Maybe they knew something we didn't.

As a release, it's much more in line to market and hype the BAs than a simple land raider variant. And given that each new codex has gotten significant support, this might be the boost they were looking for.

[Duke]

What is better than a new Land Raider Variant? . . . A freaking flying land raider!

I don't care what anyone says, EAS are going to be sick! and did I hear Death Compnay with Storm Shields?

Can't wait till April.

Duke

P.S. I will be disappointed if the Marines get the Blood Angels goodies... We didn't get their goodies!

[david5th]

What is better than a new Land Raider Variant? . . . A freaking flying land raider!

I don't care what anyone says, EAS are going to be sick! and did I hear Death Compnay with Storm Shields?

Can't wait till April.

Duke

P.S. I will be disappointed if the Marines get the Blood Angels goodies... We didn't get their goodies!
I do not think other will marines will get BA goodies. You have your postives and negatives and so do we.

[The.Justinian]

I do not think other will marines will get BA goodies. You have your postives and negatives and so do we.

If everything we hear about what it costs GW to make a new vehicle mold is true ($10,000+ for the mold alone) I think they'd want to sell it to everybody. If this Tantalus Lander thing is for real, they were going to give it to Raven Guard as an FW model...So it just may show up.

[Akimbo Lizard]

Eam?

Not that this matters with the current discussion bt EAM was my abbreviation of Exalted Assault Marines, I forgot that the real abbreviation was EAS

[Dark_Templar]

*sigh* my winged Captain was one of my stolen models, along with 5 death company that I was proud as punch of.

I will have my vengeance.

[Snyderson]

I'm not really into this "winged marine thing"... It was Sanguinius who had wings but getting wings after insanguination sounds rather strange to me - even sanguinius was considered "deformed by chaos" by some people for his whings.
But I rather have an angelic influence, than too much vampirism...

In general, I'm really excited which of the rumours will come true and which will not - only time will tell! ;)

[Madness]

Oh god I seriously hope no Twilight influence will reach this. I think I threw up a little in my mouth at the sole thought. Why do I hate myself.

[pgarfunkle]

I'm not really into this "winged marine thing"... It was Sanguinius who had wings but getting wings after insanguination sounds rather strange to me - even sanguinius was considered "deformed by chaos" by some people for his whings.
But I rather have an angelic influence, than too much vampirism...

In general, I'm really excited which of the rumours will come true and which will not - only time will tell! ;)

I agree, I'm not to keen on the idea of squads of marines with wings. I'd rather that they be jumppacks made to look like wings, emphasising the BA's artistic and creative qualities

[Duke]

I agree, I'm not to keen on the idea of squads of marines with wings. I'd rather that they be jumppacks made to look like wings, emphasising the BA's artistic and creative qualities

I could seriously go either way... Wings would be cool if they said "the flaw is becoming more and more apparent." but then again something like Swooping hawk Wings would be cool too, again emphasizing the artistic capabilities of Blood Angels.

Though seriously I see it happeneing as a development of the flaw and that the wings are real.

Duke

[Duke]

I was just talking with a friend about the recent Blood Angels Rumours and I have to say I like the direction that things seem to be going in.

1. I really like that they are apparently focusing on Mephiston and not Dante, this could be infered that they will also be focusing on the progression of the Flaw throughout the chapter... giving them a ton more character.

2. If they are focusing on the flaw it will feel a lot like "We want to be codex, we really do... But these fangs need blood!" Also, I hope that Mephiston will be a self-buffing CC god, and that will leave Dante to be an army buffing Commander.

3. I like the unique units, I really don't want them to cut and paste "Iron clad," and "vanguard," I would like Blood Angels to seem like they had those things, but have changed them over time to be "Furioso," and "Exalted Assault Squad,"

4. Specialized weapons: I hope that the Blood Angels will have their equivilent of a Frost Axe... No I don't mean a weapon that gives +1 S. maybe inferno pistols, or rapier blades... Just something that is a "blood Angel weapon."

All in all I am really stoked that Blood Angels are finally (it would seem) getting the character that they are so rich in. I want this codex to scream Blood Angels, I will be severly diappointed if it is only "you can have assault marines as troops, and here is a paragraph about the red thirst."

Duke

[david5th]

Oh god I seriously hope no Twilight influence will reach this. I think I threw up a little in my mouth at the sole thought. Why do I hate myself.
That could be the single worse thing a happen to the Blood Angels chapter since the death of Sanguinius.

" Teenage " emo vampires. PLEASE GOD NNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Madness]

Winged jetpacks are too fanservicey imho. This codex will be a hard one to make right without making it too underwhelming.

[Bigred]

I'm gonna assume that the winged jump pack marine models and the Tantalus lander answers the question of the "There will be some marines winging their way to you later this year" comment from December.

[Duke]

Winged jetpacks are too fanservicey imho. This codex will be a hard one to make right without making it too underwhelming.

Interesting thought, could you explain what you mean a little more?

Duke

[Madness]

TRADITIONALLY blood angels have been a pretty stick-to-codex-astartes chapter, so it's either no variations (not that exciting), plenty of variations (lorerape) or a magic balance of the two that will magically please everyone. It's possible, but not easy to pull off.

[Forever_Bunny]

Got this form Warseers Blood Angel Rumor Roundup Thread...Vahouth post says:



Some more feed from B&C, posted by billga


Quote Just as a clarification for the 300 point Meph (and I honestly haven't read all of the posts to know if this was already covered), the 300 point version will have Meph in terminator armor - he'll finally get an invulnerable save. But as per rules, this will eliminate his, and any unit he is attached to, ability to sweep. That is actually a much larger drawback than it sounds, do to the fact that you will be wasting his initiative 7 for sweep checks ohmy.gif

Edit: Also thought I should mention, that as far as I have been told, there is only 1 Tycho. The three options simply refer to optional weapon loadouts (think back to 3rd Edition when our ICs could take JPs when other ICs had no options). Sounds like Lemartes will be able to foot it or JP it as well for the rhino DC guys still out there (although it looks like DC may be eliminated from many BA armies anyways).

2nd Edit: Looks like the "April" date will be April 24 for brick and mortar store release.

I hope this is true I would differently buy one :D

[Duke]

TRADITIONALLY blood angels have been a pretty stick-to-codex-astartes chapter, so it's either no variations (not that exciting), plenty of variations (lorerape) or a magic balance of the two that will magically please everyone. It's possible, but not easy to pull off.

I think that the magic balance isn't so hard to figure out. Yes, traditionally the Chapter has been pretty much Codex. But if you say something like "The flaw is showing itself among the chapter in a mroe regular basis." Then you can also say that though they WANT to be codex, the flaw overtakes them... Thus changing out for Jump Packs and preferring hand-to-hand. It also explains EAS and why they have wings. I personally like the progression of the chapter away from 'codex.' In the Blood Angels books one of the characters talks about the Codex Astartes to which one of the Captains replies (essentially) "Since when do we pay any head to Guilliman and his creeds?" Then all the other captains prettry much agree. I think the Blood Angels have gone quite a bit more astray than we have shown in the current codex.
Duke

[Dark_Templar]

I'm not really into this "winged marine thing"... It was Sanguinius who had wings but getting wings after insanguination sounds rather strange to me - even sanguinius was considered "deformed by chaos" by some people for his whings.
But I rather have an angelic influence, than too much vampirism...

In general, I'm really excited which of the rumours will come true and which will not - only time will tell! ;)

I have to disagree. Since we are always told how each marine has the blood of the primarch in them all blah blah, does it not make sense that at some point, sanguinius' mutations might appear again?

I am not saying make it army wide, but a captain or sc here, maybe with an honour guard of winged assault troops that have some kind of fancy pants rule.

I dunno, I can see it happening though and feel it fits.

[Snyderson]

I have to disagree. Since we are always told how each marine has the blood of the primarch in them all blah blah, does it not make sense that at some point, sanguinius' mutations might appear again?

I would have less problems with a SC, but a whole squad of sanguinius like angel-marines...?
Maybe I don't like it, because to me this would diminish the uniqueness of the Primarch.

[Dark_Templar]

I would have less problems with a SC, but a whole squad of sanguinius like angel-marines...?
Maybe I don't like it, because to me this would diminish the uniqueness of the Primarch.

I agree, I should have explained my thinking a bit better.

It could be a case of an SC, with an honour guard of winged assault marines. It could be a case of the few marines over time who had this mutation were selected to join the SC as his guard. It only needs to be a 3-5man squad, ensuring that it does not dilute the uniqueness.

[DarkLink]

I have to disagree. Since we are always told how each marine has the blood of the primarch in them all blah blah, does it not make sense that at some point, sanguinius' mutations might appear again?

I am not saying make it army wide, but a captain or sc here, maybe with an honour guard of winged assault troops that have some kind of fancy pants rule.

I dunno, I can see it happening though and feel it fits.

Have to admit, I like the Angel/Vampire dualism this seems to imply as a theme. Not to sound like a liberal arts major (I'm an engineering student, I swear:o).

[Warpath]

Well we don't know if the EAS are 0-1 or not, i like the idea, i think it gives ma little more character to the chapter, i've been reading the same fluff over and over again since 2nd edition (i mean in the codex of course) and this looks like a nice change in a decent direction....

Victor and Holt on the other hand... no.

Also... Meph is getting I7? NICE! do you know more about his atributes? Mephiston in terminator armour would look soooo cool, especially if they are like the space hulk ones... but i would still prefer him to sweep.

I'm really liking all this things we are recieving, i hope they are true.

[Nabterayl]

Well, Space Wolves got vikings and werewolves. The opposite of werewolf, everyone knows, is vampire. And obviously the opposite of viking is angel. ;)

[RocketRollRebel]

I like the steampunky potential of Victor and Unholt. 8 Dreads tho? I do like the incorporating of the successors to and the bringing back of fluffy rules with things like Blood Rage ect ect. I'm pretty excited about it and i'll finally maybe get around to finishing the army some more :(

[wittdooley]

I agree, I should have explained my thinking a bit better.

It could be a case of an SC, with an honour guard of winged assault marines. It could be a case of the few marines over time who had this mutation were selected to join the SC as his guard. It only needs to be a 3-5man squad, ensuring that it does not dilute the uniqueness.

Does anyone think that, just maybe, the JETPACKS are winged shaped, as the Exalted squads homage to Sanguinius?

After all the hubub over Arkio's wings in BA Omnibus, I can't imagine that the BAs just have other winged men sitting around waiting to fight, nonetheless them being OKAY with it. They'd have to have suspicion that Arkio's wings were Tzeentchian manifestations like Arkios.

[Brother Tibirius]

I haven't read all the tread but i read on the C&B message board that Moriar is Back as an elite and heavy choice and can have 2 dreadnought's as body guards.... cool there is a lot of interesting rumors circulating around and for the EAS they might be winged shaped jump pack , i think there was also something about the blade they are cariyng( +1strand rerolls on succesfull inv save)

[Madness]

I think that the magic balance isn't so hard to figure out. Yes, traditionally the Chapter has been pretty much Codex. But if you say something like "The flaw is showing itself among the chapter in a mroe regular basis." Then you can also say that though they WANT to be codex, the flaw overtakes them... Thus changing out for Jump Packs and preferring hand-to-hand. It also explains EAS and why they have wings. I personally like the progression of the chapter away from 'codex.' In the Blood Angels books one of the characters talks about the Codex Astartes to which one of the Captains replies (essentially) "Since when do we pay any head to Guilliman and his creeds?" Then all the other captains prettry much agree. I think the Blood Angels have gone quite a bit more astray than we have shown in the current codex.
DukeOf course you're right, I guess I just liked things the way they were and I'm being pretty skeptical about change for the sake of change. I'll never be a true champion of Tzeentch. :p

Jokes aside, I always envisioned Flesh Tearers to be the "whoops, the red thirst kinda took over" chapter, I'd hate to see BA taking their role.

P.S.: Speaking of which, I'm also hoping for options for successor chapter variants in the new codex books!

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

i personaly feel that necrons and DE are way over due a revamp. but ive heard rumours that DE and eldar will be one codex soon, anyone confirm this?? i dont play them, i just like to know what im playing.

on the subject of codexies?? i have made my own for salamanders, i know another SM your all saying, but they where in the subject armagedon codex so.

i think they should atleast revamp all codexs at the same time as the rules then release them every 2-3 months, unless thats whats happening?

[Duke]

Does anyone think that, just maybe, the JETPACKS are winged shaped, as the Exalted squads homage to Sanguinius?

After all the hubub over Arkio's wings in BA Omnibus, I can't imagine that the BAs just have other winged men sitting around waiting to fight, nonetheless them being OKAY with it. They'd have to have suspicion that Arkio's wings were Tzeentchian manifestations like Arkios.

That is a really good point... I guess we will have to waif and see. If they focused on the artistic abilities of the chapter then these jump pack could be some articifer jump pack.

[B_Steele]

Has anyone thought that perhaps the winged "angel" jump packs could be jet packs? Especially if the Exalteds are ranged combat (storm bolters) and close combat soldiers (rapier blades).

Just a thought.

-B

[Duke]

Though Jet packs are entirely likely, I bet it is improbable.

Duke

P.S.- Jump pack equipped Dreads are coming! lol

[Duke]

Can anyone produce the rumored pictures that were leaked of the box art?

Duke

[Akimbo Lizard]

When was this?

[Duke]

It was supposed to have been a while back according to Warseer and Bolter and Chainsword, but I haven't actually seen the pics myself and any google searches turn up fruitless.

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

I've been converting up winged assault troops to represent Honor Guard, Veteran Assault and certain special characters. I did most of the part ordering back in 2001/2002 when it was much easier to order bitz directly from GW. Tons of Swooping Hawk wings and Exarch wings. For certain Specials, I use reaper wings to make them look more organic as if they have mutations. Mephiston's are entirely ornamental of course.

I sidelined my Blood Angels for about 4 years while I ran my own business and tried to work down my debts, but with the new dex, I'll be busting them out again (after I finish my IG I'm currently working on). I've got another thread with the 300+ marines in it, but here is a pic of the backs of some of the winged warriors to show how I was able to make them look some what decent without too much work.

http://homepage.mac.com/jwmissal/.Pictures/vostroyan/wings.jpg

I think something similar to one in the middle is what we'll see. That's just an Emperor's champion with the Exarch's wings (and a pair of LC)

John M>

[wittdooley]

i personaly feel that necrons and DE are way over due a revamp. but ive heard rumours that DE and eldar will be one codex soon, anyone confirm this?? i dont play them, i just like to know what im playing.

on the subject of codexies?? i have made my own for salamanders, i know another SM your all saying, but they where in the subject armagedon codex so.

i think they should atleast revamp all codexs at the same time as the rules then release them every 2-3 months, unless thats whats happening?


What are you rambling about? It certainly isn't BLOOD ANGEL rumours. And besides, do you have ANY idea what kind of undertaking it would be to redo all the codecies at once?

[DarkLink]

I can see BA as the return of Jump Infantry.


i personaly feel that necrons and DE are way over due a revamp.

What about us Grey Knights:(?


What are you rambling about? It certainly isn't BLOOD ANGEL rumours. And besides, do you have ANY idea what kind of undertaking it would be to redo all the codecies at once?

Yeah, I'm not sure what was going on there:rolleyes:. At least he didn't make a separate thread to ask the questions he had.

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

What are you rambling about? It certainly isn't BLOOD ANGEL rumours. And besides, do you have ANY idea what kind of undertaking it would be to redo all the codecies at once?

sorry i forgot to quote a guy from first page my bad, and it would be easier, you just have 2-3 people working on each codex or have them in production 2-3 months between release dates. like start SM1st jan CSM 1st mar etc then release them every 3 months it would be hard but rewarding.

btw can anyone get any pics of the new blood angels?

[wittdooley]

sorry i forgot to quote a guy from first page my bad, and it would be easier, you just have 2-3 people working on each codex or have them in production 2-3 months between release dates. like start SM1st jan CSM 1st mar etc then release them every 3 months it would be hard but rewarding.

btw can anyone get any pics of the new blood angels?

But...that's already the schedule they're pretty much working off of....

Plus, you're forgetting the other two games that they need to keep updated with plastic crack.

Plus many of the people involved with writing codecies are involved with writing for White Dwarf or writing books for the Black Library.

I think the codex release schedule is fine. The question always comes up as to the ORDER of what is being done, but I think they do a fairly good job of pumping out the new literature. I don't think their writing staff is near as extensive as some of us might think.

Anyways, BLOOD ANGELS -- my guess is that we may start seeing some picture leaks closer to the April WD publication date. Based on what I know about publishing, they probably have to have them in 2 weeks or so before the publication date, and seeing as how they're always a bit early on the printed date, I'd say we may start seeing some picture leaks as soon as the first week of February, but I doubt sooner than that.

[Snyderson]

Since they drastically changed their internal policies, only few bits are seeping through and I dare say most of them intentionally.

I'am hoping for the first tidbits in mid Feb and some more in late march.

The rumours about the black and red DC box kind of make me pondering; fluffwise a red DC does not really make sense. The armors have to be black and weapons have to be painted red (and blessed by the chaplins ;) ), so what's up with those red guys? Any ideas?

[Duke]

Since they drastically changed their internal policies, only few bits are seeping through and I dare say most of them intentionally.

I'am hoping for the first tidbits in mid Feb and some more in late march.

The rumours about the black and red DC box kind of make me pondering; fluffwise a red DC does not really make sense. The armors have to be black and weapons have to be painted red (and blessed by the chaplins ;) ), so what's up with those red guys? Any ideas?

somtimes it has been noted that the black rage can take hold so quickly thatthe marine in question doesn't have time to paint his armour black... That is the simple explaination but I'm sure gw will make it more confusing.

I have been looking all over for any of these supposed pics and nobody can surface them. The only one I found was the tantalus lander (or what is reported to Be). Let's try to get some pics.
Duke

[Snyderson]

somtimes it has been noted that the black rage can take hold so quickly that the marine in question doesn't have time to paint his armour black... That is the simple explaination but I'm sure gw will make it more confusing.

Copy on that one. ;) But still a whole squad? Well, you said it... Maybe we will see a "Veteran Deatch Company"... :D


I have been looking all over for any of these supposed pics and nobody can surface them. The only one I found was the tantalus lander (or what is reported to Be). Let's try to get some pics.

Well, maybe someone intentionally spread some rumours, to get the BA rumour pot cooking...

[pgarfunkle]

I've just been reading the new nid codex and had a thought about the death company rending/power weapon argument. How about instead of giving death company back power weapons they rend on a 5 or 6 like the death leaper? After all these things tend to be honoured relics, at least fluff wise, which would seem wasteful sending them into the maw of the enemy to be potentially lost.

[Madness]

I don't think there will be red Death Company, it's completely non-WYSIWYG.

[Warpath]

Ok, this appeared in one of my local forums, he took it from the Bolter & Chainsword page, remember that this isn't true untill we get the real codex in our hands. Suposedly this is the order of the pages that describe the rules for each unit (and the units of course).

page -26 background
27 combat squads, red fury, furious charge, they shall know no fear
28 Commander
29 Sanguinary Priest
30 Chaplain
31 Librarian
32 Tactical Squad
33 Assault Squad
34 Devastator Squad
35 Death Company
36 Terminator Squad
37 Honour Guard
38 Dreadnought
39 Furioso Dreadnought
40 Scouts
41 Initiate Scouts
42 Bikes
43 Scoutbikes
44 Land Speeder
45 Exalted
46 Techmarine/Razorback
47 Rhino
48 Drop Pod
49 Tantalus
50 Predator
51 Baal Predator
52 Whirlwind/Vindicator
53 Land Raider
54 Commander Cervan Dante, Chaptermaster of the Blood Angels
55 Mikhael Faustus, Sanguinor of the Blood Angels, Exemplar of the Host
56-57 Mephiston, Chief Librarian of the Blood Angels, Lord of Death
58 Erasmus Tycho, Captain of the 3. Company of the Blood Angels
59 Reo Lemartes, Chaplain of the Blood Angels, Guardian of the Lost
60 Victor Nergal, Master of the Forge of the Blood Angels
61 Moriar the Chosen, Death Company Dreadnought of the Blood Angels
62 Hieri Lorenzo, Sergeant of the First Company of the Blood Angels
63 Absolutus, Dreadnought of the Flesh Tearers, Furioso Supremo
64 Gabriel Seth, Chaptermaster of the Flesh Tearers
65 Toledo Astorath, Chaptermaster of the Angels Sanguine
66-72 wargear
73 psychic powers

Couple of things to note... it seems that corbulo is gone (WHY?), and that there are 2 different scouts units, which in the case of the initiates would make some sense the "mad max" looking scouts, since the come from the wastelands of baal. The thing that is still unknown if the "Tantalus" is a land raider variand, or a flying vehicle.

[Snyderson]

No Corbulo? That would be a shame... :(

And I am still hoping for the Landspeeder Storm - I really like the model.

[Warpath]

Theres one thing i forgot to copy (SORRY!), but check this out. this was in the end of the post (the one i copied this from:

"Okay, sets my concerns about the SC name discrepencies aside if it's all to be believed. One thing I find a little odd is the fact all the land raiders only get a page, but I guess they only need weapon entries really; all the background is covered in C:SM and in C:SW the rhino/razorback entry was condensed to just one page. Other thing is the placement of the psychic powers after the wargear section - in both C:SM and C:SW the psychic powers were listed in the bestiary at the same time as the librarian/priest entries. Should also be noted that the following entries are probably joint:

bikes/attack bikes
dreadnought/venerable dreadnought
furioso dreadnought/DC dreadnought
Land speeder/storm
All 3 land raiders
Commander/chapter master"

now, this is an intresting thing that i forgot to post (again, very sorry), but if there are only 3 land raider variants, that means there isn't a 4th so the Tantalus would be a flying vehicle it seems...

[Duke]

On Bolter and Chainsword it says that the Tantalus is actually its own entry. This would mean that it is not a Land Raider Variant.

here is a quick run-down of its stats:

Tantalus Lander
Transports 16,8,5 or 1 Model depending on type. (the thinking is 16 power armour, 8 jump packs, 5 terminators, or 1 Dread.)
Two Assault cannons and heavy flamers (/Plasma Guns)
Fast, skimmer, 13/11/10, no scout!, deep strike, transport

Im calling it a "SkyRaider,"

[Warpath]

Looks awesome! i would like AV 12 on the sides, but i guess it is asking too much, what i am really wondering is its point cost, and see if its really worth it. I mean we are having rhinos as fast transport too and im sure it will be cheaper than the tantalus, now, if we get to assault after disembarking from the tantalus im buyng 5 minimum.

[DarkLink]

On Bolter and Chainsword it says that the Tantalus is actually its own entry. This would mean that it is not a Land Raider Variant.


Who'da thunk that "flying Land Raider" wouldn't be literal :p. Y'know, with how easy it is to stick a couple rockets onto a 70+ton tank so it can fly:rolleyes:.

[Duke]

Looks awesome! i would like AV 12 on the sides, but i guess it is asking too much, what i am really wondering is its point cost, and see if its really worth it. I mean we are having rhinos as fast transport too and im sure it will be cheaper than the tantalus, now, if we get to assault after disembarking from the tantalus im buyng 5 minimum.

That is the big question... Will we be able to assault after disembarking from the tantalus. Especially after deepstriking?! My feeling is that we will be able to, if you are equipped with jump packs. This would mean that terminators and other non-jump pack marines would still like using traditional means of deployment. Also the Rhinos will count as open-topped when using the over charged engines, so guess what that could mean?


Who'da thunk that "flying Land Raider" wouldn't be literal :p. Y'know, with how easy it is to stick a couple rockets onto a 70+ton tank so it can fly:rolleyes:.

Yes, that would be great... If your an Ork! lol

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Lol, I might do a Blood Angels army just so I can name the Captain Edward Cullen.

[Duke]

Lol, I might do a Blood Angels army just so I can name the Captain Edward Cullen.

Oh god no please! Don't Do it!.... That said if you do it then you absolutly have to make him all "Sparkly diamond people!" lmao

Duke

[Madness]

Hm, pretty angels much?

[twistinthunder]

On Bolter and Chainsword it says that the Tantalus is actually its own entry. This would mean that it is not a Land Raider Variant.

here is a quick run-down of its stats:

Tantalus Lander
Transports 16,8,5 or 1 Model depending on type. (the thinking is 16 power armour, 8 jump packs, 5 terminators, or 1 Dread.)
Two Assault cannons and heavy flamers (/Plasma Guns)
Fast, skimmer, 13/11/10, no scout!, deep strike, transport

Im calling it a "SkyRaider,"

actually the majority of people seem to think its : 16 marines (with or without jumppacks), 8 termis 5 bikes or 1 dreadnaught. especially considering the thunder capacity says that jump packs dont take up space.

[Duke]

I hope that your right Twist cause I would hate the idea of only being allowed 8 man assault squads... But then again, why have a capacity of 16 at all? Maybe we will see large Death Compnaies coming out again? only time will tell.

Duke

[Warpath]

I was thinking the same thing, a huge DC could be a possibility, but then again, maybe they are givin the tantalus to the rest of the SM chapters.... since the only ones that can reach a 15 man unit are the Black Templars.

[Dark_Templar]

I was thinking the same thing, a huge DC could be a possibility, but then again, maybe they are givin the tantalus to the rest of the SM chapters.... since the only ones that can reach a 15 man unit are the Black Templars.

I am guessing you are referring to transport, cause I am pretty sure BT can have 20man squads...

[Duke]

I was thinking the same thing, a huge DC could be a possibility, but then again, maybe they are givin the tantalus to the rest of the SM chapters.... since the only ones that can reach a 15 man unit are the Black Templars.

I will be so bummed if they just hand it out the all the marine chapters! We had to deal with Sub standard weapons and junk and we didn't get the new Land Raiders, so the C:SM people should just have to deal with not having it, just like we had to deal with not having Storm Shields!

Duke

[Dark_Templar]

I will be so bummed if they just hand it out the all the marine chapters! We had to deal with Sub standard weapons and junk and we didn't get the new Land Raiders, so the C:SM people should just have to deal with not having it, just like we had to deal with not having Storm Shields!

Duke

Honestly, I have to agree. Despite my grudge against the LR:Crusader being handed out to every man and his dog, it would be nice for the various chapters to have major vehicles / wargear that is unique to them.

When the Vanilla chapters get a hold of it, it really does reduce the reasons for going non:Codex in the first place. You may as well buy C:SM and paint your marines red. Create a librarian name Mephiston and paint a Chapter Master Gold. Job Done.

I do believe that GW is starting to realise this though, and will make the BA as unique as possible. Honestly, it is more money for them if they can make people want to own a BA army AND a Codex army.

DT.

[Dark_Templar]

True, but something like a landraider variant only needs an upgrade sprue for the base LR. So I am not sure that there is a huge amount of money to be lost by restricting it to one army.

Anyway, I guess we will find out soon enough, and BA will at least have it until 6th ed C:SM comes out I spose.

[lobster-overlord]

Making a non-Codex unit available to the Codex marines is the difference in taking a model from being cost-effective to massively profitable. It makes sense to make a model of limited use in a side book a major player in a main codex, thus increasing overall sales. Creating more variants of the Land Raider took it from a model that you might have one player in a small group have to a must have in multiple quantities for any Marine/Dh/WH/CSM player.

John M>

[Duke]

I really get irritated how some people think that GW only makes decision based on money... Are they a profit model company YES! But that doesn't mean that they are always thinking of only making money. Geez.

That rant said, I again assert that the precedence says the lander will be Blood Angels only.

Duke

[Snyderson]

Well, I guess they do think, that they can sell the new BA pretty well - Space Hulk really put the BA back on topic and the really amazing models and the game as such could have intrigued enough people... ;)
If the Codex is really that thick and has some cracy stuff in it, I believe some Vanillas will aswell turn their backs on Guillome. And later on, it would be still possible (and profitable) to hand out things like the tantalus to others.


I really get irritated how some people think that GW only makes decision based on money... Are they a profit model company YES! But that doesn't mean that they are always thinking of only making money.

Well to be honest, they have to make all their decisions based on money and not for the pure love of the game; shareholders would rip them appart if it was any other way and after that there wouldn't be GW anymore to keep us hooked to WH40k, WHFB or all the other games.
I daresay there are enthusiast at GW which would love to just do models, stories, codices etc. but in the end, every enthusiast has to explain himself in front of a manager...

[Madness]

Making a non-codex unit available to codex chapters means sabotaging the intresting bits of the specialized chapter by inflationing them, ultimately ruining the experience of those who play those chapters, making them leave the scene and losing money.

So there are 2 sides of the coin, it's not a dead brainer.

[Warpath]

Ok, i just finished talking to a friend of mine who works in a GW store, it would seem that we are getting the tantalus lander AND the a new land raider variant.... he also said that we will be able to assault when disembarking from the tantalus lander (:eek:). Gentlemen, start saving money because we are getting a lot of new stuff and im sure we`ll want them all..... if all this is true of course. Remember that nothing is confirmed untill the codex arrives, i am reapeating all this cause i cant help to get all exited myself and im trying to calm down :D.

Now, a flying vehicle, with a lot of troop capacity, well armed and with the ability to assault from it... i would say it would cost at least 170 points minimum. That was a Conjecture btw.

[Bigred]

The latest word:

Force Organization Chart

Blood Angel FOC is divergant from the Ultramarine one:

-Dreadnoughts are heavy support.

-Furioso Dreads with droppods are fast attack.

-Twin scout entries are both elites, but one is scoring.

-Only dedicated ground transport is the Rhino (Razorbacks are out)

-Assault Squad and Tactical Squad are troops.

-Honour Guard can be troops if fielded with Dante.

-Jump pack units are in every FOC category except heavy support and HQ:

--Assault Squad - troops

--Honour Guard - elites

--Exalted - fast attack

Death Company is 0-1 and doesn't need a slot in the FOC

Units Rules

Tantalus Lander is a dedicated transport for everything in the army except tanks, Land Speeders and Exalted. Its weaponry is: 2 twin-linked assault cannons, 1 twin-linked special weapon.

Land Raider: Redeemer, Crusader and Standard

Terminator sergeants can get close combat wargear. There is a Terminator upgrade to allow shooting in an enemy phase.

Exalted: 4/4/4(5)/4/1/5/1+1/10/3+, jump troops, hit & run, furious charge, no red fury/combat tactics, power armor, stormbolter, power weapon, bolt pistol, no options, no transports.

Quite angelic: masterfully crafted slim armor, jump packs, mechanical wings, masks, long hair.

Named Characters

Erasmus: Furious charge, digital weapons (rending), master crafted combi melta: 18" S:8 AP:1 Assault 1, melta, reroll to hit, 4+ ward save, can chose one set of special rules:

-squad ignores red fury
-red fury and preferred enemy
-rage and feel no pain

Mephiston: 7/7/5/5/3/7/4/10/2+, FnP, Fearless, Eternal Warrior, Fleet, 2 psychic powers per turn.

More potent versions of Might of heroes, Transfixing Gaze and Blood Stasis powers:

The gun of Victor's servitor is 36" S:6 AP:6 Assault6

Psychic Powers

Quickening: Infantry moves as beasts, jump troops and walkers gain fleet.

Blood Stasis: 5" vortex of blood in base contact. Enemy models count as being in difficult terrain, and suffer one wound if they try to move and any of the distance dice shows a 1, Mephiston: can cast it in close combat centered on himself, and enemies attacking with a 1 suffer a wound.

Might of Heroes: one model in squad gets +D3 attacks, Mephiston: can cast it on himself.

Primarchs Grace: Squad may reroll dangerous terrain tests.

Transfixing Gaze: Target model must take a leadership roll off or not able to attack librarian, Mephiston: not able to attack any model.

Living Darkness: A template which blocks line of sight.

Fluff

Background: mainly Blood Angels and 4 successor chapters with one page each:

-Blood Consuls

-Angels Sanguine

-Flesh Tearers

-Angels Vermillion

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Making a non-codex unit available to codex chapters means sabotaging the intresting bits of the specialized chapter by inflationing them, ultimately ruining the experience of those who play those chapters, making them leave the scene and losing money.

So there are 2 sides of the coin, it's not a dead brainer.

I doubt the Tantalus will be Blood Angels only. They said all Chapters have them.

[Warpath]

WOW, that looks awesome!!!!! ignore my comment on the land raider variant plz.

Meph is going to kick some serious butt...


i can't wait to see the exalted minis.


I can't wait to get the Codex for that matter.

[Duke]

By "Razorbacks are out," did you mean out of the codex entirely? Or simple that they are out of the 'dedicated transports,'?

All in all it looks like this list is going to be really fun! Lots of Deepstriking goodies. I am also assuming that if the furioso in the Drop pod is a fast attack choice then that might hint that he can assault from out of the pod.

Duke

[spagunk]

By "Razorbacks are out," did you mean out of the codex entirely? Or simple that they are out of the 'dedicated transports,'?

All in all it looks like this list is going to be really fun! Lots of Deepstriking goodies. I am also assuming that if the furioso in the Drop pod is a fast attack choice then that might hint that he can assault from out of the pod.

Duke

I think he meant it was off the list of dedicated transports. If other rumors are to be believed, it was mentioned that razorback transports can only be used when fielding a techmarine. Kinda stinks but then we get a new transport anyway so we take what we can get i suppose. Besides, chances are you aren't going to see a terrible amount of razorbacks anyway but it does hurt some armies out there. I think the reasoning for this is to get people to start using rhinos more. That and to hopefully get a whole bunch of tantalus sales going. Speaking of the lander, I am not so certain about the armaments on the thing. 2x TL assault cannons? TL special weapon? Seems too good to be true. That alone would sky rocket the cost of the thing to near 200 pts! In fact, it almost reminds me of an eldar vehicle than a SM vehicle.

If what is being said is true, how exactly would GW go about giving all Space marines access to the lander? Is it assumed that an FAQ would be pushed out? I mean Space wolves were only released a couple months ago...

[Warpath]

Maybe not from the drop pod, but it could from the Lander...

[Stormlord Aeirling]

Good work Bigred. I'll spread the word.

I must say, i might be tempted to play blood angels after this.

[Lerra]

If the rumors about the slim space marine with wings are true, I'm going to be buying every box my store gets. There are so many wing-based chapters that those models would fit into (Raven Guard, Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, etc.). Hopefully it's possible to remove the jump packs from the wings.

[therealjohnny5]

what do you guys think about using this codex as a Raven Guard stand in?

[Duke]

what do you guys think about using this codex as a Raven Guard stand in?

I think that C:SM is better for Raven Guard as a chapter... However if you want to copy Shrikes Company then perhaps you could use Blood Angels.

Duke

[Madness]

what do you guys think about using this codex as a Raven Guard stand in?

Raven Guard is a pretty close to Codex Chapter but I guess someone might want to do that. And heck would it look nice on the table.

[Snyderson]

Raven Guard is a pretty close to Codex Chapter but I guess someone might want to do that. And heck would it look nice on the table.

"I see a red door and I want to paint it black..." :P

That thing about razorbacks doesn't really appeal to me... but well, I will not start arguing until the codex AND the first errata is out... :D

[Madness]

Actually I meant that a raven guard army with codex miniatures but variant functionality would perform in a flavorful way.

If you just want to repaint just say it's a successor chapter. :P

[darth_papi76]

I have a Ravenguard army and I might use these rules because I love using assault troops and I don't think I'd want to start another chapter since I'm finally getting my Space Wolves painted.

[lobster-overlord]

Any word either way if Devastators are still going to be in the list? The reason I ask is that I've got 8 Devastator Squads, and I'm working to figure out if I will just have to restructure entirely and build the assault BA army and then use the remnants to build a Vanilla Marine army.

Of course, in Apoc it won't matter, so I'm not too worried, but just curious.

John M.

[Warpath]

Supposedly devastor squads will be able to buy lascannons cheaper than the space wolves, that was the rumor, so i would say that yeah, they will still be on the list.

[lobster-overlord]

Thanks, I missed that when reading through the lists.

John M>

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

i have a picture but dont know how to put it on here. if you wanna see it AND TRUST ME IF YOU A BA FAN UYOU WILL send me an email and ill send you it or someone tell me how to get it up on here. its the front of the codex, well a POSSIBLE front cover

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

oh my email is [email protected]

[Akimbo Lizard]

I would love to see it, I sent you an e-mail

[therealjohnny5]

I have a Ravenguard army and I might use these rules because I love using assault troops and I don't think I'd want to start another chapter since I'm finally getting my Space Wolves painted.

that was one of my reasonings behind the idea. I know IA:8 is coming out with RG in it but a lot of people for some reason have a problem with FW rules. So i was thinking about BA as a reasonable and somewhat more fluffy styling rather than codex.

[Duke]

Yea, if you want something besides the codex style then BA would do it for you... But like I said, I would run it as Shrikes Company.

Duke

[Bigred]

We've heard the army is subject to the following special rules:

-Combat squads
-ATSKNF
-Furious Charge
-Red Fury: Unit must pass a Ld check if an enemy model is within 12" or be subject to Rage USR
(Note the lack of Combat Tactics)

Techmarines are said to be similar to the Space Marine codex, but lose Thunderfires and Fortifications rules, instead allowing squads access to Razorbacks as transports upgrades.  They are said to have access to Orgyn based "assault servitors"...

[Snyderson]

We've heard the army is subject to the following special rules:

-Combat squads
-ATSKNF
-Furious Charge
-Red Fury: Unit must pass a Ld check if an enemy model is within 12" or be subject to Rage USR
(Note the lack of Combat Tactics)

Techmarines are said to be similar to the Space Marine codex, but lose Thunderfires and Fortifications rules, instead allowing squads access to Razorbacks as transports upgrades.  They are said to have access to Orgyn based "assault servitors"...

I'll gladly sacrifice Combat Tactics for an army wide Furious Charge. And the rumored Red Fury mechanic, seems fine to me and compared to that annoying roll for each unit, which we had a couple of years ago, it's fantastic ... ( I always managed to roll 1s with DevSquads ... -_- )

[soapy]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1TtHLS4MoEk/Sr_KQRZkWCI/AAAAAAAAAFU/5yqmkaSAAIM/s1600/SH100501.JPG

Do we think this Games Day WIP is the new lander?

[Snyderson]

Do we think this Games Day WIP is the new lander?

It is rumored so; but I wonder how a dread should fit in there and how it should embark/disembark...

[Warpath]

I would hate if that is the Lander's model... personally i don't like it.

[Strangleweb]

Bear in mind that that is a Forgeworld WIP model, so is likely to be part of the next Imperial Armour book. At Games Day, Simon Egan suggested that the lander would be tied to the IA8 release which is Raven Guard and Elysians.

The current rumour over here is that jump troops will be able to assault from the lander, but not infantry or dreadnoughts.

Devastator squads are definitely in the new book, and they will still have the blue helmets!


With regard to using the Blood Angels list to represent Shrike's company, while I can see it in one way, remember that Shrike's 3rd company is still a battle company, with 6 tactical squads, 2 assault squads and 2 devastator squads. There are tales of him leading lots of jump pack equipped marines into battle, but that is where he would have drafted the 8th company into help. Raven Guard are a codex chapter, more so than many.

Now, using the BA list to represent an assault company, now that I can understand!

[david5th]

In the new white dwarf - UK february 362, 2 things caught my attention.

1. Furioso Librarian - Librarian in a Dreadnought!
2." Mysterious avengin angel known as Sanguinor - no idea unless previously mentioned and i've forgot.

Does mention there will new troop types and characters but thats as specific as it gets.

[pgarfunkle]

I spotted those earlier today and can't wait to field a librarian dreadnought :) I'm also curious about the Sanguinor and the new troops choice.

[Idaeus]

Don't like that prototype. Personally I'd like a thunderhawk lookalike just smaller (akin to banebade SH kits).
On another point I think that more of the first founding(?) chapters should have unique lists. At least Iron hands, Raven guard and white scars.

[Duke]

Bear in mind that that is a Forgeworld WIP model, so is likely to be part of the next Imperial Armour book. At Games Day, Simon Egan suggested that the lander would be tied to the IA8 release which is Raven Guard and Elysians.

The current rumour over here is that jump troops will be able to assault from the lander, but not infantry or dreadnoughts.

Devastator squads are definitely in the new book, and they will still have the blue helmets!


With regard to using the Blood Angels list to represent Shrike's company, while I can see it in one way, remember that Shrike's 3rd company is still a battle company, with 6 tactical squads, 2 assault squads and 2 devastator squads. There are tales of him leading lots of jump pack equipped marines into battle, but that is where he would have drafted the 8th company into help. Raven Guard are a codex chapter, more so than many.

Now, using the BA list to represent an assault company, now that I can understand!


I agree, Raven guard are a codex chapter, the only reason I could see them counting as Blood Angels is if it was one of Shrikes famous "Jump Pack assault," things... Or if it represented any 8th company.

[Bigred]

That Forgeworld kit is not the Tantalus, but a Ravenguard vehicle called the: Storm Eagle Drop Ship from the upcoming IA:8

Still something as unique as that doesn't spring up out of nowhere, so I bet it has a lot of styling cues in common with the Tantalus

The Sanguinor may be that squad upgrade to the Exalted Assault Squad who causes instant death if he gets 3 hits in assault. Possibly an Arjak type squad upgrade character.

[Bigred]

Latest word from the rumormill:


Tantalus Lander
Skimmer, Fast, Deep Strike
Front:13 Side:11 Rear:10 BS:4
Two assault cannons, and a forward twin-linked special weapon
Transport Capacity:
16 models (Terminators/Jump pack troops count double)
OR
5 bikes (attack bikes count double)
OR
1 dreadnought

Special Rules: Models equipped with jump packs may assault the turn they disembark if the vehicle moved less than 12" or deepstruck.

This is said to be a transport upgrade for many units.No word on point cost, but its basically a flying Baal with transport capacity. I think looking towards those rules and the cost of the Valkyrie will give us a decent ballpark.

[bigrob281]

so i think the storm eagle is ugly . i hope they release a kit for the lander when the codex comes out that would but sweet

[Jono]

so i think the storm eagle is ugly . i hope they release a kit for the lander when the codex comes out that would but sweet
It is only the initial mock-up, ready for it's first resin version. It will look a lot different when it's done! I for one really hope they get rid of the plastic tubes and replace them with proper lascannons!

[Duke]

It is only the initial mock-up, ready for it's first resin version. It will look a lot different when it's done! I for one really hope they get rid of the plastic tubes and replace them with proper lascannons!

I think that it is pretty safe to assume that the plastic tubes won't be there.

[DarkLink]

I think that it is pretty safe to assume that the plastic tubes won't be there.

Yeah, the details will certainly be better.

I do hope it looks nicer, though. The Storm Eagle looks like a flying bath-tub. I'd expect a Marine vehicle to look a little more... aggressive.

[Warpath]

Attach a Gatling to your bathtub and you'll see how aggresive that is :D

[Snyderson]

Well if the Tantalus is a kind of flying baal with transport capacity, there are several ways it could look like.
The rumored rules up to now speak of jump infantry which may assault from it; that makes me think of a blackhawk chasis with wings (or something like that)... but then transporting a dread or terminators would be kind of impossible.
So I came to think, that it must have a kind of a large assault ramp on the bottom of the hull, to make disembarking comfortable for everyone; anyone remembering good old Ramrod from Saber Rider...? Yeah, that's what I am hoping for. :cool:

[Duke]

Attach a Gatling to your bathtub and you'll see how aggresive that is :D

The United State Air Force did that, it is called a "Warthog/ Thunderbolt,"

Duke

[DarkLink]

The United State Air Force did that, it is called a "Warthog/ Thunderbolt,"

Duke


http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/2009/03/02/close_air_support.jpg

[Bigred]

Hi everybody, here is the latest chatter we hear regarding Blood Angels Commander Dante. He sounds like a real monster:


Commander Dante
Master of the Chapter, Jump pack, Perdition Pistol, Fearless Artificier Armor, Iron Halo (2+/4+)
Death Mask: Commander Dante gains an additional attack in assault for each enemy attack that targets him and misses, capped at a maximum of +4
Axe Mortalis: +1 strength power weapon
Inspiring: Friendly units within 6" of Dante's Honour Guard are fearless, and Honour Guard units are scoring
Seen it all: For each enemy unit placed in reserve to either deepstrike or outflank, do the following:
-Any enemy HQ must make a Leadership rolloff versus Dante. If Dante wins, the unit must deploy normally with its army. If Dante loses, the unit may deploy as intended by the enemy player (This power has no effect on units which MUST deepstrike - pods, etc...).
~Remember that caveats apply, as we are still far out, but my traitor titans are already cheering at not being reduced in BS when near old Dante. There is all kind of talk regarding that rumored Librarian Dreadnought, so we'll do some digging... Have at it guys

[Duke]

I got to say that I am kind of disappointed in those rules... Yes he will be a beast in close combat, but I wanted him to be a little more "Army buffing," while Mephiston was more "CC Beast." I was hoping that he would keep his preffered enemy rule. His new special rule is ineresting... What is the 'roll-off' D6+LD? If so it would be a fun ability.

Duke

[Snyderson]

What is the 'roll-off' D6+LD? If so it would be a fun ability.

Guess so; sounds like the old strategie values...

[Duke]

Here is where Im thinking that ability could be great. (assuming this is for ALL units in reserve, not just ones Deep Striking or outflanking)

We have Tantalus Landers which are Fast, Skimmer, Assault Vehicle... This means a possible first turn assault.

Because of this possibility the enemy decides to hold everything in reserve. Dante then Forces half of the army (assuming the enemy HQ is also LD 10) to deploy, thus being a huge advantage for the Blood Angels.

If it is only for units 'outflanking,' or 'deep striking,' then this isn't as great because there is only one or two units in most armies (if any) that will do that. Also it doesn't apply to drop pods, so that makes it even less powerful if it is only foe enemies who DS and OF.

Duke

[DarkLink]

~Remember that caveats apply, as we are still far out, but my traitor titans are already cheering at not being reduced in BS when near old Dante. There is all kind of talk regarding that rumored Librarian Dreadnought, so we'll do some digging... Have at it guys

I'm glad it's gone, too. Not that I've ever actually had to face him, but I really dislike enemy abilities that affect my model's stats. Leadership is one thing (not that my Grey Knights care much about that), but getting negative modifiers on things like WS or BS just irritate me.

[QUOTE=Duke;51588
Because of this possibility the enemy decides to hold everything in reserve. Dante then Forces half of the army (assuming the enemy HQ is also LD 10) to deploy, thus being a huge advantage for the Blood Angels.

If it is only for units 'outflanking,' or 'deep striking,' then this isn't as great because there is only one or two units in most armies (if any) that will do that. Also it doesn't apply to drop pods, so that makes it even less powerful if it is only foe enemies who DS and OF.

Duke[/QUOTE]

Against DP armies you can use reserves yourself, and anything that helps defend against random outflankers is useful. Though it would be either more or less than 50% of units being forced to deploy, depending on who wins ties. I'd assume the enemy wins ties, leaving us with, what, ~40% of the enemy forced to deploy? Unless I did the math wrong...

Let's see: 36 possible results on 2 d6. 6 of which are ties, leaving 30 non-ties. 50% of those are won by a particular side. So the person who wins ties has a (15+6)/36 % chance of winning. So 21/36. That's a 58.33% chance, assuming equal leadership.


I wonder if the wording of the rule will allow Dante to prevent units from deploying in their Drop Pods? I hope not, but who knows...

[Duke]

Yea I was using rough math... But still the overall issue arises that it is IMHO not much more than a "oh and I get to do this" ability. Whereas if I was for all reserved units it would be nasty... I just was hoping his focus would be more on overall benefit to the army as opposed to a combat monster.

On another note: based on his ability I might just run him unattatched from a squad, it split off at the last second. With that in mind, I would assume that he wouldn't get bonus attacks till second round of combat because he has such a high initiative that nobody will strike and miss before he allocates his attack.

Edit: possibly the extra attacks are at initiative 1

[OnFyre]

Furioso Librarian confirmed by White Dwarf. No pics, but mention of something called a 'Sanguinor'

[DarkLink]

Edit: possibly the extra attacks are at initiative 1

I would expect either at I1, or they give him a bonus in the next assault phase.

[lobster-overlord]

they might have to FAQ that rule if it's not specific enough when actually printed. I gathered from the way the info written thus far is, is that he would gain it for subsequent assault phases, as you would not know how many attacks are against him (and missed) until after all attacks have been resolved at the end of the phase.

John M.

[Nabterayl]

Next phase seems most likely to me too; this feels like a Warrior Born-esque effect. Even if he received them at I1, how would you know how many attacks delivered at I1 missed him? If Dante assaulted a bunch of terminators I'd sure want to know how many power fists missed!

[Puccio]

Not that we have the exact wording of the rule, the way I was interrpreting it was that during any assault as, for each dice roll that is thrown against Dante, and fails to hit him, he gets to throw back an attack at the same time up to 4 times a turn.

So it's at whatever I he's being attacked at.

[Duke]

Interesting, but as I think about it I really think it will be for the next assault phase

[pgarfunkle]

I agree I think that most likely it will be the following turn, in the same way that ragnar (or one of the space wolves characters i think) gains extra attacks for successful hits.

[DarkLink]

Not that we have the exact wording of the rule,



the way I was interrpreting it

Kinda contradictory statements :p.

The simplest and easiest way to deal with it is to just give him bonus attacks next turn. Just about any other way gets overcomplicated for one reason or another.

And as you said, we don't know what the actual rule is, so there's not much point speculating about it.

[sangrail777]

I think puccio is right. seems as the way other such rules apply.

[DarkLink]

I think puccio is right. seems as the way other such rules apply.

The closest example that i can think of is Saga of the Warrior Born, which grants its attacks in the subsequent assault phase, not immediately afterwards.

In fact, the only example that would be similar to puccio's suggestion I can think of is Lucius, and his power doesn't grant him extra attacks, just inflicts extra wounds on the enemy.

Actually, I suppose the new 'nid acid blood thingie is similar to Lucius, but once again, it doesn't grant extra attacks at all.

[Stormlord Aeirling]

Some new stuff from 40k online.

Mephiston and furision Librarian (http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=182823.msg2405939;boardseen#new)

[Warpath]

Psychic powers are looking way better now, i like them a lot. That furioso librarian seems like a real beast. And meph... well he was my favourite character of all time, im really happy they are making him a real killing machine.

[Lerra]

Psychic Power: Living Darkness: shooting power, x" range, 5" blast, stays in place until the start of the next Blood Angel turn. No line of sight can be traced through the marker except the targeting unit has Acute Senses USR

Wow, I love this psychic power. Makes it a bear to try to kill a librarian's squad, though, especially if the librarian dreadnought can take it.

[Bigred]

Translated and crossposted all over the place...


1. article: Mephiston
- costs: x points + x (this is a guess of the authors and not part of the actual rumours)
- stats:gigantic, better than before
- special rules: ATSKNF, IC, Lord of Death, psyker, knows all 6 psychic powers
- weapons: Scarlet Fang, Force weapon, Plasma pistol, grenades, Psychic hood
- Lord of Death: no Red Thirst (army wide special rule, if leadershiptest fails wehen enemy is in 12" unit has rage), no Furious charge (otherwise army wide special rule), instead: Feel no Pain, Fearless, Eternal Warrior
-Scarlet Fang: can replace instant death power with one of the other psychic powers. He can use this power without psychic test and it no longer counts as psychic power but instead as normal special rule. A psychic hoodfor example is useless against this power.

2. article: Furioso Librarian:
- costs: expensive, way more than a Dreadnought (unclear if this is also speculation or part of the rumour)
- stats: common Dreadnought stats with some small spikes. He is a Furioso too.
- rules: walker, Furioso Supremo, Red Thirst, Furious Charge
- items: 2 dreadnought ccw, one with melta gun, one with stormbolter, smoke launcher, searchlight
normal options like heavy flamer
- can take 2 powers: Quickening, Might of Heroes, Shockwave
- transports: Drop Pod, Tantalus Drop Ship
- Furioso Supremo: can cast one power with leadership x. He takes a glancing hit from every Peril of the warp attack. Otherwise he doesn't count as psyker in every regard!

article 3: psychic powers:
Quickening: used at the start of the turn, gives (only the psyker) beast movement. If the psyker is not infantery, he gets fleet. He has to be on the table to cast it (comment from me: to my understanding that means you can't use it in a transport). If Mephiston is casting this spell, his unit gets the faster movement too.

Blood Stasis: shooting power, x" range, 5" blast, every non vehicle unit under the blast template counts as being in difficult terrain. If they move they get a Sx APx hit for every 1 on the difficult terrain test. If they shoot, they get a S5 AP- hit for every 1 on the roll to hit.

Might of Heroes: used at the start of the assault phase. one model in 6" (that includes the psyker) gets D3 extra attacks

Primarchs Grace: used at the start of the turn, Librarian and unit can ignore terrain until the end of the round

Living Darkness: shooting power, x" range, 5" blast, stays in place until the start of the next Blood Angel turn. No line of sight can be traced through the marker except the targeting unit has Acute Senses USR

Shockwave: shooting power, vehicles in xx" get a Sx AP1 hit against its side armour. in 6" 2 hits and in 3" 3 hits. cover saves are not allowed.

Transfixing Gaze (Mephiston only): begin of the assault phase, hinders enemy to attack, like Genestealer Broodlord, on a draw nothing happens

Vortex of Blood (Mephiston only): can use it before he attcks. every model in base to base contact makes a Toughness test. If it fails it gets a wound. saves are allowed. If at least one wound was caused every successful hit roll from this on until the end of the round against Mephiston has to be rerolled.

We've heard these are closer to the final codex that earlier stuff that hs been reported.

[ninja skills]

I'm likeing the sound of this, looking at the current breed of codex books things should be nicely balanced by points.

the SC's sound interesting, its nice to know some successor chapters are getting some love. the fluff also sounds very interesting.

[Subject Keyword]

Another Marine army.
I get more excited about Saw sequels.

I hate Saw sequels.

[wittdooley]

Another Marine army.
I get more excited about Saw sequels.

I hate Saw sequels.

Clever.

I think it's silly when people purposefully go to a Rumours thread about an army they don't like, just to state that they don't like it.

Anyways, looks like Mephiston is going to be a CC monster, as he should be. I really wonder if they're going to give him a new model. I doubt they will, as they didn't with Ragnar.

It would be nice to see GW pull a Privateer Press on this issue and do rereleases of some of their character models.

[Shagrath]

cough cough *melissa* cough cough

in any case rotation is rotation, and codexes needs updatin. it's unfortunate that there are so many varieties of one army in this fabulous grim dark world..

..heh I wish we had someone who whines about squats not getting a codex whenever a new one is released.

[Duke]

Clever.

I think it's silly when people purposefully go to a Rumours thread about an army they don't like, just to state that they don't like it. .

Seriously! If you don't want to hear about another army then avoid the thread! I hate it when people do that. You know what the thread is about stop commenting for your stupid +1 post count and irritating the rest of us who do care.

Anyhow... I was joking several months ago when I said Blood Angels would have a Flying Dread and by the looks of it the Librarian Dread could be it (Via Quickening)! Who would have thought?

I am loving how Mephiston is working, especially the sword that allows him to cast a power without being canceled, that means he can pretty much always not get shot at as he comes down the field and once he is in combat will always have +D3 attacks...What a beast! 300 points for sure!

Duke

[Shagrath]

I'm contemplating a dc bubble of death army with tycho and lemartes

though i will say mephy with terminators would be fun..

[Duke]

Mephi and termies in a tantalus lander would be more fun!

[GreyHunter]

Really looking forward to the psykic powers. At first I thought Living Darkness would be useless but then someone explained about using it on the Librarian after moving them so they can't be shoot at. Assault squads might actually survive long enough now :p The Librarian dread sounds like a fun option too but it is probably going to be a big points sink.

[Lerra]

Living Darkness is the best psychic power in the book, imo. Walk a librarian plus 10-20 marines up to the enemy front lines completely hidden from LoS (you can hide one squad inside the template and the other behind the template). Or 2 furioso dreadnoughts.

In a team game, you could hide a Trygon out of LoS. It's sick. I don't know how shooting armies are going to deal with that.

[Madness]

Am I the only one confused at the idea of a dreadnought psyker that can still use its psyker skills?

[Bigred]

The phrase "Storm Harbinger" is being tossed around a bit these days. Keep your eye's peeled for it in relation to the Blood Angels.

[Duke]

Living Darkness is the best psychic power in the book, imo. Walk a librarian plus 10-20 marines up to the enemy front lines completely hidden from LoS (you can hide one squad inside the template and the other behind the template). Or 2 furioso dreadnoughts.

In a team game, you could hide a Trygon out of LoS. It's sick. I don't know how shooting armies are going to deal with that.

Spot on! Living Darkness is Awesome! I can just imagine all the Blood Angels closing their eyes and saying "If we can't see you then you can't see us!"

Duke

[Snyderson]

Am I the only one confused at the idea of a dreadnought psyker that can still use its psyker skills?

To me this seems to be an ork idea; something like a "weird-killa-can" ...

[pgarfunkle]

Am I the only one confused at the idea of a dreadnought psyker that can still use its psyker skills?

I could be wrong but don't the grey knights have librarian dreadnoughts?

[Duke]

Technically yea they do... But only because all grey knights are psykers, Sp their dreads would be as well.

[andrewm9]

I could be wrong but don't the grey knights have librarian dreadnoughts?

While technically all Grey Knights are psykers, they are not all Librarian level psykers. The Dreadnaught does not have any psychic powers though or even the usual Grey Knight rules as he is considered a vehicle. Though you can buy all sorts of fancy wargear on them that can dramatically increase the price above their 80 points.

[MVBrandt]

IIRC Grey Knights also absolutely loathe the notion of being entombed in a dreadnaught.

[pgarfunkle]

IIRC Grey Knights also absolutely loathe the notion of being entombed in a dreadnaught.

Now that you mention it I think I remember reading the same thing somewhere.I guess I figured the grey knights being all psykers would have librarian dreads. Ah well personally I can't wait for my furiso librarian, I love dreads :) I have 4 already lol

[Madness]

Yeah I get how a dying librarian could be placed into a walking tomb, but still being able to cast powers kinda conflicts with what I imagine a dreddy to be.

[pgarfunkle]

I dunno it's effectively a brain in a can so depending on how well the marine takes to the transfer I reckon you might get librarians able to use their powers still. One of the successors has a chapter master dready so I figure a dread can retain most if not all of their previous mental faculties

[Madness]

The Black Templar comic did a fair job depicting the dreadnaught, and it's not what I'd call bright. Probably they will tie the psykerness to the BA genetic flaws or something. I hope they do it well because I'm already slightly off put.

[pgarfunkle]

I've not read that, will have to try and track it down. Can you remember the title off hand?

[Nabterayl]

I haven't read that comic either, but dreadnoughts are not necessarily dumb. Remember that many chapters include their dreads in their war councils to take advantage of their experience, which kind of requires those pilots to be lucid enough to talk strategy. And remember also that a dreadnought on the tabletop possesses the skills of a marine in his prime in both close combat and shooting, which also suggests that the pilot is (or at least can be) pretty lucid.

I'm sure there's room for variation, since there's lots of ways to be mortally wounded, but I don't think it's at all weird for a librarian to be able to use his powers from within a sarcophagus.

[pgarfunkle]

Yeah I was thinking of Bjorn with the space wolves, he's supposed to be their oldest and wisest if I remember rightly, also there's the BA successor chapter master that I'm trying to remember the name of. I figure that sometimes the warrior within could be lucid and sometimes not so much

[Madness]

Damnation Crusade written by Dan Abnett, so don't try to cheapen it out. :P

And it's not that the Tankred is dumb dumb, it's just... slumbering.

[DarkLink]

IIRC Grey Knights also absolutely loathe the notion of being entombed in a dreadnaught.

After centuries of fighting the most vile horrors in the entire universe that would drive lesser beings to insanity, Grey Knights simply want to rest beneath Titan, rather understandably.

[Duke]

PIcked this up on Warseer. Courtesy of Ravenheart he got it from 40kings.de , a german site. Some of it seems a little off, and I don't think it is 100% but I thought I should post it anyhow.


News from www.40kings.de on Death Company and Sanguinary Priests:

Death Company:

FOC: Elites (don't occupy a slot), unique

Cost: Somewhere around 25p per model

Size: 5 DC Marines

Profile: Regular marine profile, with more attacks

Equipment: CCW/Boltpistol, Artificer Armor, no Granades

Special Rules: ASKNF, FNP, FC, Fearless, Black Rage

Black Rage: Rage as per rulebook + constantly count as attacking for furious charge (until they lose combat).

Additional rules:

- If 2 or more Tactical Squads are in the list the DC may get a Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod or Tantalus Lander as transport.

- If 1 or more Assault Squads are in the list the DC may get Jump Packs for 10 (or more) Points per model.

- If 1 or more Devastator Squads are in the list the DC may buy up to 5 more DC Marines.

- If 1 or more Honor Guard Squads are in the list the DC may buy Powerweapons, Powerfists and Powerclaws (for the usual prices).

- An Chaplain in 6" of the DC makes the lose Black Rage and gain Red Fury.


Sanguinius Priest:

Cost: Similar to an Obliterator

Profile: As a chaplain

FOC: HQ

Equipment: Power Armor, CCW/Boltpistol, Krak-/Fraggranades, Exsanguinator
(can buy Red Grail (around 30p), terminator armor, bike, jumppack, etc.)

Special Rules: ATSKNF, FC, Red Fury

Exsanguinator: Marines in 12" can ignore Red Fury OR Marines in 12" can take Red Fury test with 3D6; if they fail they gain prefered enemy for the rest of the players turn. Units that have 'rage' automaticly get prefered enemy.

Red Grail: Gives Sanguinius Priest and his squad FNP.



Duke