A Plea

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Right guys, I've been hearing a lot of talk in the Warhammer community. It turns out that BoLS appears to have a reputation for moaning.

I don't know who are the sources of the moans, but I think we need to cut back on it. For the good of us. If it was me pointing the blame, I'd aim at the rumour threads.
Quite frankly, it's appalling watching the threads unravel. There just doesn't seem to be rational thinking in there.
"Oh Games Workshop is letting me do what I want? Damn them to hell!" - this was an ironic quote that a friend said in response to what people on here had been saying about the recent 7th editions confirmations regarding the organisation chart.
And maaaaaaaaaybe the point of many new release threads being turned into a Feminism argument was raised by a few people I know...

A lot of people irl know that I have a heavy hand in here, and keep trying to ask me why this is the case, and I can't really give them an answer.

Now you'll all say, 'But I'm not moaning, I'm just stating fact', hint, you're moaning.
Also, you may say 'But you're moaning about the moaning', yes I am moaning. I'm trying to make sure we get a better reputation.

So I beg you, just think before you fire off your mouth, if you don't like Games Workshop, don't comment on threads relating to them.

Cheers.

TDA/SaviourAnarchy/Dale/Dickface McGee/etc

[eldargal]

Who gives a **** about our reputation? BoLs is the best and friendliest GW focused forum bar none and the others are festering ****holes of negativity compared to BoLS so any talk of BoLs being moaners is pure hypocrisy.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I give a *expletive* about our reputation.

[eldargal]

Why? What a bunch of dumbarse whining neckbeards on Dakka thing about BoLS is irrelevant.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

"A good reputation is more valuable than money." - Publilius Syrus

[eldargal]

A good reputation amongst ****heads isn't worth a thing.

[Mr Mystery]

They're just jealous that we don't put up with their nonsense over here.

Don't like the board, don't post on the board.

That's why I don't post on Dakka.

[eldargal]

Yep. The only thing I get annoyed about is when people say BoLS just reposts rumours from other places because 75% of the rumours on Warseer and Dakka were reposted as well but apparently it was still only BoLs' 'thing'. So screw them.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

...

You guys realise that I'm talking to real life people, a lot of which hold no affiliation whatsoever, who are put off joining here because of moaning?

[eldargal]

Then they would never want to join any other forum either because they are worse. If they can't cope with moaning, which while irritating is basically harmless, then they should stay the hell away from the actively, hysterically anti-GW Warseer and Dakka.

[Mr Mystery]

DFK, DFC to be short.

Has it ever occured to them the best way to defeat moaning minnies is to increase the signal to noise ratio?

Look at when the Oubliette team made a concerted effort on the 40k board. Moaning died down.

[Psychosplodge]

Ponies for everyone!

That'll stop the moaning...

Seriously, though in comparison to any other forum I've ever been on online Bols is pretty placid. Where IRL have you heard this TDA?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Where I live, at WHW, in Birmingham... etc...

[Mr Mystery]

Just get them involved, Chollo*






*No idea what a Chollo actually is.

[Psychosplodge]

Interesting.
But are they referring to the frontpage? and not the forum.
Do any of the others have a front page?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The forum, it's where the rumours be at.

[Psychosplodge]

I suppose between the rumours and rules threads it could give that impression but as the others have said, **** em.

[Gotthammer]

*No idea what a Chollo actually is.

A Hispanic man, possibly with racist undertones depending on where you are, possibly without.

[ElectricPaladin]

Positivity regarding new releases is a good thing. I definitely agree that we could afford to chill out about how awful and scary the future is going to be.

Regarding posts about the newest and best new model with enormous boobs and no sense of anatomy... I'll stop complaining when butt-hats stop making stupid models and expecting my genitals to convince my ganglia to spend capitalism points on 'em. It's an insult to my intelligence, and I refuse to respond to insults with something as mild as "oh, that's nice..."

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't think GW have ever released a model with overly huge breasts.

[Mr Mystery]

I don't think GW have ever released a model with overly huge breasts.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/large/troll-hag1.jpg

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That's not GW...

- - - Updated - - -

Or sexualised...

[ElectricPaladin]

I don't think GW have ever released a model with overly huge breasts.

I don't think it's threads about GW models where said arguments break out...

[Wolfshade]

People see what conforms to what they expect to see.

Hence you may buy a car that is uncommon in your opinion then after you own it you drive around and see loads of them.

Similiarly, if you expect to see whining and complaints you will see them and weigh them heavier than those comments which aren't. Because we aren't using Lojban the tone of some comments are unknown, so a sarcastic comment can suddenly become a serious comment. Something neutral then becomes positive or negative.

I think a reputation is something to be aware of, only if it becomes a barrier to participation.

It is also where you look, I mean down here in the Oub. these are the threads that probable grow the most in terms of posts per day and very few of these are whiney and complainy, so it is perception of those higher up in the pond. These murky depths I think is where the "heart" of the board is.

[Nabterayl]

That said, a while back those of us here in the "heart" made an effort to raise the positivity level elsewhere on the board, and I think that's always a good thing to remember. It isn't just about reputation - it's about doing our part to keep the tone of the board what we want it to be.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

And in all seriousness, the odd temporary, tactical derailing works wonders for defusing grumbles.

[DrLove42]

You only have to look at the comments on my 6th edition rumour post on the front page today to see the internet just loves to whine.

A nice, fun light piece looking at 6th edition rumours and reactions. Cue 130 posts whinging and calling me an idiot for daring to enjoy 6th edition

[Ian Mulcahy]

It's interesting that in response to hearing that people don't want to join the forums or post because of the negative attitudes that seem to be so prevalent, the forumgoers respond by saying "@#$% them, we don't want them then." Real positive and welcoming, there.
Its why I don't post here very often. All the internet hate and keyboard warriors who can't tolerate any opinion that differs from their own.
And, yes, I know-- "its the internet, man up." No. I'm not going to take part in something that's not fun, or get involved with conversations that anger me. This site may be better than other sites, but rotten behavior is still rotten behavior, and there is still plenty of it around here.

[Denzark]

I think if you assigned a numerical quantity to negative forum behaviour, be it whining, derailing, adding in political based arguments, and whatever the nomenclature for Oubliette regulars saying 'f&ck 'em' is - BoLS would come out higher in terms of positivity that any other forum I know.


I have always thought in any society outsiders should conform to that society's societal norm at their point of entry, as a condition of entry.

So, if BoLS is too whiny for people, they can vote with their feet and stay on Dakka or wherever...

Why should we change for them - when actually it would seem that - whilst PERCEPTION may be BoLS is whiney, REALITY is it really isn't - comparatively.

There are far worse things for BoLS to be concerned about, like posting a front page item entitled 'Review of x...' which is not a review, but is usually a hyperlink to another website (massing post counts for their advertisers) which then has a Youtube video of someone flicking through a WD or opening a box. That is not a review that is just a demo - not a compelling critique of the item.

Far more worrying than moaning.

[Nabterayl]

Why should we change for them - when actually it would seem that - whilst PERCEPTION may be BoLS is whiney, REALITY is it really isn't - comparatively.
While I don't disagree with your following point, I'd just like to reiterate that we can all do our part to not be whiners and moaners.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ian and Nabterayl have the right of it.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Ian and Nabterayl have the right of it.

I have recently been waging a one man war of positivist and fluff based thinking up on the front page stuff.
Heck I'd write articles or something but I know not how :(

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ask Mr BigRed via a PM.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

OH. I meant that I'm not sure I'm a good enough writer.
Thanks though.

[Morgrim]

If we write some purely fluffy, non-competitive articles on making terrain or something will that help the front page or just provoke people into whinging about us wasting time on 'unimportant' stuff?

[Denzark]

I think the rumours forum is probably just susceptible to this.

[Psychosplodge]

It's interesting that in response to hearing that people don't want to join the forums or post because of the negative attitudes that seem to be so prevalent, the forumgoers respond by saying "@#$% them, we don't want them then." Real positive and welcoming, there.
Its why I don't post here very often. All the internet hate and keyboard warriors who can't tolerate any opinion that differs from their own.
And, yes, I know-- "its the internet, man up." No. I'm not going to take part in something that's not fun, or get involved with conversations that anger me. This site may be better than other sites, but rotten behaviour is still rotten behaviour, and there is still plenty of it around here.


I think you'd find if you came and spent more time down in the oubliette you'd find a lot less whining, proper heated discussion yes, whining not so much.
Which is basically why if people don't come and have a proper look at the forum, but still make a judgement call I don't necessarily feel particularly inclined to give their opinion much weight.

[Bigred]

Dear Lord - if people think BoLS has a reputation for whining, they better not ever step within 10 feet of Warseer or Dakka...

My guess would be the arguments on the frontpage comments, but then again - that's the nature of internet comments.

Every site has that issue from games, to celebrity gossip.

As with all of these types of things, the best way to assuage people's fears is to just drag them into our pool. Once they get in and post a bit - it's normally all good.

[eldargal]

I only go on the front page to post amusing witticisms about Plastic Dudesmen, the comments are too depressing otherwise.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Well, I tried to warn y'all.

[Ian Mulcahy]

I think you'd find if you came and spent more time down in the oubliette you'd find a lot less whining, proper heated discussion yes, whining not so much.
Which is basically why if people don't come and have a proper look at the forum, but still make a judgement call I don't necessarily feel particularly inclined to give their opinion much weight.

Actually, I do read through the oubliette quite often. Just cause I don't post there, don't assume I never go there. There is plenty of negativity down there too. Some threads are much better than others, I will admit. And I agree that there is less of it there than in any of the 40k sections. But there is still name calling, rage, and plenty of posts that boil down to "Stfu, noob." or "you're not one of the cool kids so you aren't important." Not really something I care to get involved in.

[Psychosplodge]

Really?
Still less than any of the other forums from what I've seen.
Plus there are no cool kids we're on a wargaming forum :D

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

What we don't do in The Oubliette is tolerate fools gladly.

The threads down here are open and pretty friendly. If you express a counter opinion, be prepared to have that explored by all and sundry. Not comfortable with that, then you're probably not ready for adult discussion about mature subjects and that.

But you're still totally welcome down here. After all.....they let me in.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

And he's a moron! :p

[White Tiger88]

Who gives a **** about our reputation? BoLs is the best and friendliest GW focused forum bar none and the others are festering ****holes of negativity compared to BoLS so any talk of BoLs being moaners is pure hypocrisy.

I vote Eldargal isn't are spokes woman....... :p

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Seconded. Notion carried.

[eldargal]

I don't want to be spokeswoman, B1tch Queen of the Universe or nothing.:cool:

Not the leader you want, the leader you need!
Able to make the tough decisions, treating all citizens with equal contempt!
Vote Eldargal while you still can (vote)!

[Mr Mystery]

And he's a moron! :p

Come join me in Mystery Corner....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Bdyq2GjRl2Y/UGHQgdyXz0I/AAAAAAAACYQ/oyVPLtuTpV0/s1600/dunce-cap.jpg

Hats! HATS FOR EVERYONE!

[Psychosplodge]

I already have a hat, it has my pokemon badges, and my MLP badges, and some random badges on it...

[Wolfshade]

I don't want to be spokeswoman, B1tch Queen of the Universe or nothing.:cool:

Not the leader you want, the leader you need!
Able to make the tough decisions, treating all citizens with equal contempt!
Vote Eldargal while you still can (vote)!

Queen of the universe, well the universe is basically nothing, if you look at it.
So by transity you are teh queen of nothing...

[Psychosplodge]

Queen of the universe, well the universe is basically nothing, if you look at it.
So by transity you are teh queen of nothing...

the universe potentially has a near infinite number of planets, we only have evidence of life on one of them. One divided by infinity is as near as zero as dammit, ergo there are no people in the universe

[Wolfshade]

the universe potentially has a near infinite number of planets, we only have evidence of life on one of them. One divided by infinity is as near as zero as dammit, ergo there are no people in the universe

No, the universe is of finite size and finite mass (some 10^53 kg) therefore while there might be countably infinite planets, there are in fact only a finite number.

It is one of the problems of the steady state theory, basically if the universe was infitiely large and old then there would be infinite number of stars, all of which would have had enough time for their light to reach earth so night would be blindingly light. (Olber's Paradox)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Olber%27s_Paradox_-_All_Points.gif/300px-Olber%27s_Paradox_-_All_Points.gif

[Psychosplodge]

So we do exist? or at what point does the finite number get big enough for the original statement to be functionally true?

[Wolfshade]

We do exist, but on average (or fermi estimation) we don't. (But the fermi estimation also gives me 1 leg...)

Depends what you are counting really. In all useful ways there are an infinite number, that is a countably infinite.

But the assumptions can lead to interesting things.

On aveage there are 3 hydrogen atoms per m^3, therefore nobody exists.

Alternatively, if there are infinite number of stars and each star has on average a planetary system there are several times infinite numbers of worlds, so an inifinite number must occur in habitable zones for life as we understand it so, infinite numbers of cultures!

[-Tom-]

We do exist, but on average (or fermi estimation) we don't. (But the fermi estimation also gives me 1 leg...)

Depends what you are counting really. In all useful ways there are an infinite number, that is a countably infinite.

But the assumptions can lead to interesting things.

On aveage there are 3 hydrogen atoms per m^3, therefore nobody exists.

Alternatively, if there are infinite number of stars and each star has on average a planetary system there are several times infinite numbers of worlds, so an inifinite number must occur in habitable zones for life as we understand it so, infinite numbers of cultures!

Worth pointing out the other parts of the paradox too, as you covered why the universe couldn't be both infinitely large, and have been around forever, at the same time. But to really get the paradox going, one also needs to cover the other base(s) - it can't have *just* been around forever, without being infinitely large, because then it would have collapsed in on itself due to gravity (using the physical rules understood at the time of the paradox, which doesn't include dark energy and subsequent repulsive forces). The other option, that it is just infinitely big, but that it hasn't been around forever, then means that you'd need to have a theory for how it began.

[Wolfshade]

Yeah like some cartoony "Big Bang"

[daboarder]

Yeah like some cartoony "Big Bang"

the big bang theory wouldnt support the infintely large but not infintely old segment of the paradox he is talking about

[White Tiger88]

I don't want to be spokeswoman, B1tch Queen of the Universe or nothing.:cool:

Not the leader you want, the leader you need!
Able to make the tough decisions, treating all citizens with equal contempt!
Vote Eldargal while you still can (vote)!

So...where all going to die............

[YorkNecromancer]

It is one of the problems of the steady state theory, basically if the universe was infitiely large and old then there would be infinite number of stars, all of which would have had enough time for their light to reach earth so night would be blindingly light. (Olber's Paradox)

But I thought that the lack of light everywhere was due to the redshift - the light shifts into infra-red where we lack the perceptions to see it, thus we only see that illumination which hasn't yet redshifted out of the visible spectrum. :confused:

[DarkLink]

But what's to stop this infinite amount of light from dumping massive amounts of thermal energy and boiling the surface of the earth?

[ElectricPaladin]

But I thought that the lack of light everywhere was due to the redshift - the light shifts into infra-red where we lack the perceptions to see it, thus we only see that illumination which hasn't yet redshifted out of the visible spectrum. :confused:

Redshift happens for a reason - specifically, when things move towards us, which compresses the light waves. Conversely, you get blue shift when things move away. If the universe is a "steady state" where it's infinitely large and old, then there's no reason for enough things to be moving towards or away from us to redshift or blueshift the light to the point that we can't see it.

Also, what DarkLink said. What you can see is actually a minute fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum, and there's a ton of energy in the states both "above" and "below" what we can see.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The f*ck happened here?

[daboarder]

Physics

And EP you e got red and blue shift around. Red shift occurs as the distance betwee object increases. Ie an expanding universe

[ElectricPaladin]

Physics

Physics is happening everywhere.


And EP you e got red and blue shift around. Red shift occurs as the distance betwee object increases. Ie an expanding universe

Thanks. I teach life science, not physical science, so I'm a bit out of practice!

[White Tiger88]

The f*ck happened here?

Thats what i am trying to figure out.

[Wildeybeast]

Newton's First Law of Derailment is what happened here.

[Psychosplodge]

Newton's First Law of Derailment is what happened here.

The first Newton's law of derailment is we don't mention the derailment...

[Wolfshade]

But what's to stop this infinite amount of light from dumping massive amounts of thermal energy and boiling the surface of the earth?

Observational evidence that either the universe isn't infinite in size or in time...

Observationally, we see that the universe is expanding, (the thought of an infitie space expanding into nothingness is mind boggling in itself).

[Kaptain Badrukk]

It's been a long time coming TDA, but as requested I will endeavor to be a more positive voice on the front page.
Although the editors amusingly chose to publish my article about hobby fractiousness first and not either of the other two in the tank about lighter subjects :)

[daboarder]

It's been a long time coming TDA, but as requested I will endeavor to be a more positive voice on the front page.
Although the editors amusingly chose to publish my article about hobby fractiousness first and not either of the other two in the tank about lighter subjects :)

I think the articles that are published are influenced a bit by views and replies. therefore the divisive posts get published more. Might be something for Bigred to look into if its unintentional

[Deadlift]

Gamesday (is there one this year ?) let's have an Anchor Man style face off with the members of the other forums. Let's give em something to moan about :cool:

Obviously I'm joking. But seriously as others have said it's easy to read about a debate and take it as moaning. I like a bit of objectivity and I certainly don't want people to alter their views or curb their opinion for the sake of what another forum thinks. Just keep it level and civilised (something I sometimes fail at too, I know) and as far I'm concerned it's a win/win.

Despite what some think, I do believe GW and the other company's do at some level somewhere listen to their customer base. And folks that's what we are so don't hold back on your critiques. Just keep it civil.

My 2 cents.

My own personal experience of the folks on the front page has been nothing but positive really.

[daboarder]

Gamesday (is there one this year ?) let's have an Anchor Man style face off with the members of the other forums. Let's give em something to moan about :cool:

Obviously I'm joking. But seriously as others have said it's easy to read about a debate and take it as moaning. I like a bit of objectivity and I certainly don't want people to alter their views or curb their opinion for the sake of what another forum thinks. Just keep it level and civilised (something I sometimes fail at too, I know) and as far I'm concerned it's a win/win.

Despite what some think, I do believe GW and the other company's do at some level somewhere listen to their customer base. And folks that's what we are so don't hold back on your critiques. Just keep it civil.

My 2 cents.

My own personal experience of the folks on the front page has been nothing but positive really.

If anyone ever makes it to sydney I'll by them a few beers and be glad for a game

[Psychosplodge]

Considering how much beer in Oz apparently is that#s a very generous offer :D

[daboarder]

Considering how much beer in Oz apparently is that#s a very generous offer :D

yeah, and I dont waste my time with new, xxxx or VB either, auzzie owned coopers pale ale for me

[Kaptain Badrukk]

yeah, and I dont waste my time with new, xxxx or VB either, auzzie owned coopers pale ale for me

Well I'm in Sydney, which workshop is best for you?

[Bigred]

Just remember - when you meet members from other forums:

Convert them - don't kill them*

*If they don't convert - then you can go to town...

:)

[Deadlift]

Just remember - when you meet members from other forums:

Convert them - don't kill them*

*If they don't convert - then you can go to town...

:)

I will quote you on that ;)

[daboarder]

Well I'm in Sydney, which workshop is best for you?

Normally at the town hall battle bunker (They dont like my mantic zombies though :(), but due to my thesis I've done most of my gaming for the last 6-8 months with 4 guys at work that also play

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Normally at the town hall battle bunker (They dont like my mantic zombies though :(), but due to my thesis I've done most of my gaming for the last 6-8 months with 4 guys at work that also play

I could wend my way to central, as of the 2nd when he opens I'll be hanging around the Blacktown store.