Kingdom Death - What's the story?

[hisdudeness]

So I've heard about this Kingdom Death kickstarter and have seen some of the models. They are beautiful models and the concept interesting.

Where is the game?

I was doing some research and see that the kickstarter was a massive success and funded over a year ago. Asking around, not all backers have received their rewards. Yet at the same time new limited run models are put out on a pretty constant basis for continued funding purposes.

Am I missing something? Anyone have more information?

[Houghten]

Asking around, not all backers have received their rewards. Have any backers received their rewards? I was under the impression pretty much all the kickstarted models were still in production.

And yeah, they're producing new stuff too. I don't remember the Kickstarter promises including "this will be our only priority."

[Chronowraith]

Houghten is correct. Adam, the owner of Kingdom Death, wanted the miniatures to be of the highest quality possible and thus chose to delay until Q3 of this year for delivery. Some models are done while others are still in production.

I also wouldn't say that KD puts out anything on a consistent basis. They've released maybe 6-8 figures since the kick starter completed and many of those were already in production when the kick starter went up.

[Houghten]

Bought on

Ah, autocorrect, my old nemesis. We meet again.

[Chronowraith]

Didn't even notice that until, now. lol. Sorry my friend.

[hisdudeness]

I have heard the quality reason before, but $2+ million and almost 2 years with no backer rewards and no game would worry me. More so when new limited models are coming out pretty regular.

The game concept is pretty simple and should need this long to playtest. I agree the models take time, but this not a very promising product schedule.

[Lord Asterion]

The thing is, backers (myself included) were promised resin models, he then decided to make them from plastic and has caused this massive delay, because it reduces his overheads for selling further copies and models, leaving backers waiting and waiting. I'd be interested to see what his next excuse is when Q3 rolls around.

[Chronowraith]

He never promised all resin during the campaign unless you ordered the special resin collector's edition. Even then you'd have had to pony up for each individual resin add-on which was usually substantially more than the plastic. While I know I've missed a few updates, if you ordered resin, you will get resin. He even talks about receiving resin casts from the factory in several of his updates. The focus on plastic is because he wants to get it right the first time so people continue to buy the game, expansions, and add-on models. He doesn't make updates about resin progress because he already knows that production avenue quite well.

As for fulfillment, it's been 1 year and 5 months (well, in 3 days). Given that it was originally supposed to ship in november of 2013, That makes it 7 months overdue. As a backer this doesn't scare me at all. Why? With the exception of the Warmachine Tactics kickstarter I haven't had a single backed project deliver on time. Kingdom Death won't be the first or last that is late. Nor will they be the first or last to release new product while working on the kickstarter. Look at Robotech Tactics. It finished in May of 2013, was supposed to deliver in December of 2013, and isn't projected to meet total fulfillment until Christmas at the earliest. Yet I don't hear people crabbing about that one.

Development takes time. Playtesting takes time. Production takes time. Dissemination takes time. Even the experts on kickstarter (i.e. well established companies) get it wrong. Look at the original Reaper Bones Kickstarter. My rewards were 5 months late and unlike Kingdom Death or Robotech, Reaper didn't bother to tell anyone until shortly prior to the original ship date that they would be late.

On a side note.. I'd argue that 1 year and 5 months isn't "almost 2 years". That would have been like me saying my daughter was "almost 1 year old" when she was 6 months or like me saying "I'm almost 40" when I'm 36. It's all relative.

EDIT: He also mentions several times in his updates that many of the new releases were from separate funds or were already in production when the kickstarter began.

[hisdudeness]

Look, I'm not bashing anything. I just know a good number of people in on this and they want me to join up, so I'm doing research.

I'm looking at this long term, I do not want to drop money on a one hit wonder. So I look at long term business model and the future of the game. And we only have the 18 month history to go on. I'm sorry, but $2+ million dollars and 18 months is more then enough time to playtest/design/produce a product, especially a core set. It is more then enough time to produce the backer rewards.

Then we look at his current releases. The model for releasing those is worrisome. The 'feeding frenzy' method used is not sustainable nor is it good for players of a game. It shows that he is unable to keep up with demand for a product that can't even be used for the game. I don't want to play a game that supply sells out hours after release and takes who knows how long to restock.

Over all I'm just not seeing a sustainable business model that won't leave me with a half finished game system.

[Chronowraith]

He's stated several times that the resin masters are the only limited edition products. Hard plastic will be the standard game pieces when they come out and will not be limited. The "feeding frenzy" approach is a bit of a misnomer as well. Up until the kickstarter he has largely sold Limited Edition sculpts. The intention of them has always been to be limited edition. It's not that he can't meet demand, he wants them to be limited edition. No one is accusing GW of "not meeting demand" when they sell out of a new limited edition codex. This is no different. If you look at the KD website, the non-limited edition sculpts will go up and down in stock like anywhere else.

As for the timeline, I'd agree that 18 months is excessive for a core set. Except the kickstarter wasn't just the core set. The Kickstarter ended up including the core set, ten game expansions, eight pinup figures, 12 kickstarter specilas (from extra armor sets to collectible one-off figures), and then eighteen resin figures that duplicate some expansion materials/pinups/specials/etc. That's a lot of material considering the Kingdom Death operation consists of 2-3 people working out of an apartment (this may have changed, but at the time of the kickstarter, they were two people who worked out of a house).

I understand the skepticism. I really do. People should always be good stewards of their money.

Insinuating that the money isn't going towards the kickstarter but rather new releases is a bit far-fetched given the information available.

[spiralingcadaver]

I'm annoyed by the delays, but this guy pretty clearly exudes perfectionism: I wholly expect delays that are avoidable (i.e. not mistakes or stuff not on his end) are due to him being frustratingly anal, rather than any malicious intent.

[hisdudeness]

That is my thought also. Being anal is not a very good trait to have when in a business. The game and models in the preview look awesome and I really like the idea of the game play. As it stands now only the backers have any real interest in the game because they are waiting for their rewards. If he waits much longer the game will be DOA before he even releases.

If I were a backer I would be pissed if he releases another limited model before the game.

[spiralingcadaver]

As a backer, yeah, it's frustrating. I conceptually know that the resources involved in resin casting and plastic casting are pretty much separate, but I'm still not a great fan of the policy.

On "DOA," yeah, Arena Rex was one that I really, really liked when it began: it has really nice minis and I thought had a creative and intuitive combat system in the beta. But, now it's like half a year late and is neither delivering a fantastic amount of minis nor is it using any unexpected processes (unless you count bases, which will still be done ahead of at least one of their resin sculptors). That game went from me being pumped and combing stat cards to see which characters I'd add when it hit retail, to interested in probably playing it once I get some dudes painted for it and probably keep it as a little side game, due to serious delays.

I have very high expectations for Kingdom Death, and every week longer it takes to make the game needs to be justified with something that much better. My anticipation at how awesome(!) everything looks has turned to annoyance. We know the minis look great. Showing more little guys is impressive, but isn't exciting nor is it delivering your product...

[Path Walker]

I'm sorry but I really can't see this game ever coming out, Q3 will roll around and we'll get a whole new batch of excuses.

The change to hard plastic (yes, it was a change), is purely for his own profit later on (if he releases a game and if anyone is going to buy a $250 boxed board game) and leaves backers with delays.

Every update that comes, every reopening of the pledge manager to ask for more money, makes it seem less and less likely to me that this product is coming.

I haven't backed myself, but my gaming group are in for over £1200 between them.

I wouldn't ever back this company, because I found the pin ups disgustingly sexist and don't want to give that man my money, and I'm glad I made that choice.

[hisdudeness]

It just seems like he has no concept of marketing and scheduling a product release.

He is on the back side of the interest bubble. Also jumping the core set price up is not a great move either.

If this ever does make bit to market, I don't think the following will remain to keep it going.