Daemonhunters and Witch hunters codex [Archive] - Page 2 - BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum

Melissia

02-13-2010, 09:43 PM

Considering many people are too stupid to know the difference between the Sisters of Battle and the Inquisition (yes, even low-level GW employees), I'm really still waiting for something more conclusive.

A codex combining four (Inquisition, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle) drastically different "armies" (assuming you can even call the Inquisition a proper army) is nothing but a failure waiting to happen. I'm hoping we get something good, instead. The rumors thus far have stated a Grey Knights or Daemonhunters codex in late this year / early next year, which would mean that they could actually do them justice. Would be unfortunate for Deathwatch players (Jervis Johnson has very strongly implied they will not be doing Deathwatch this edition), but better for everyone else.

Kahoolin

02-13-2010, 09:59 PM

Considering many people are too stupid to know the difference between the Sisters of Battle and the Inquisition (yes, even low-level GW employees), I'm really still waiting for something more conclusive.Well, it's something of a forgivable mistake since GW put them in the same codex and retconned the sisters so that they are the chamber militant of the OH.

Necrosis

02-13-2010, 11:08 PM

Before I say anything else, take this with a grain of salt.

Some of you may have no heard but GW stores are suppose to be getting two black boxes in may. Which seems a bit strange that they would release two armies at once. This could be mean that they are release both a new witch hunter and grey kngiht codex.

eldargal

02-13-2010, 11:12 PM

Well, it's something of a forgivable mistake since GW put them in the same codex and retconned the sisters so that they are the chamber militant of the OH.

The Adepta Sororitas are the militant wing of the Ecclesiarchy, not the Ordos Hereticus. They have a formal working relationship with OH, which is not the same thing as being part of it.

Kahoolin

02-14-2010, 01:02 AM

Yeah I know that, but they are in fact the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus as well as being part of the Ecclesiarchy. So all I'm saying is it's easy for people to get mixed up between being the Inquisition and working for the Inquisition.

I guess I just thought Melissia's use of the word "stupid" was unnecessarily harsh. I certainly wouldn't like to be called stupid for making an honest mistake about the factional allegiance of a made-up organization in a kid's wargame. But I guess that's the internet. I don't think I'll ever get used to it :)

I was also having a bit of a go at GW for changing the fluff for convenience's sake.

Nabterayl

02-14-2010, 02:46 AM

Yeah, "Chamber Militant" does not imply "part of." An ordo's chamber militant is simply the go-to option for inquisitors of that ordo when major ***-kicking is needed. In fact, does anybody have any definitive statement that the Deathwatch is part of the Inquisition? As far as I know, the Grey Knights are the weird ones, in that they are a chamber militant that is also an actual part of the Inquisition.

Madness

02-14-2010, 03:49 AM

The OH doesn't have any permanent attachments, OM has DK, OX has DW (which is a squad of indentured SM from various chapters, NOT an army), so yeah, inquisition-wise there's not much to bundle, making it hypotetically possible.

The Adeptus Ministrorum (and therefore Adepta Sororitas) are an instution of their own, their ties with the inquisition are similar to those of space marines-inquisition or imperial guard-inquisition, which might account for a separate codex in a world were things are done with sense.

Spirit Leech

02-14-2010, 06:38 AM

The major things I'd hope and pray for in an inquisition codex would be:
Cheap Stormtroopers

The ability to field a small elite force comprised of inquisitor, his retinue, and maybe a platoon or two of stormtroopers and still be competitive

A create for your own retinue option on top of the generic warrior/chiurgeon/etc. Think along the lines of starting with a generic statline and taking and buying traits, such as marksman +1bs 15 pt, null 45Pt. I want colorful characters with my Inquisitor, Eisenhorn shouldn't be the only one with interesting friends.

Distinct and exclusive options for making a radical force that go beyond the daemonhost. Such as wargear, powers, maybe a kroot or eldar retinue choice for those inclined to be radically xeno

No sob's (They kind of messed up last time and got carried away with the sisters in what was obviously an inquisition book)

Inq Lord and retinue models for each of the ordos even the minor (plague doctor inquisitor lord for the ordo sepulturum would be beyond awesome)

Mention of my much beloved Ordo Sepulturum (I would totally make a sepulturum task force and field it only against nurgle)

I also completely agree with Madness in that Grey Knights should remain in the OM and be fielded in small elite forces.

Melissia

02-14-2010, 10:55 AM

(They kind of messed up last time and got carried away with the sisters in what was obviously an inquisition book)
No, they messed up last time and got carried away with the Inquisition in what was obviously a Sisters book. The Sisters were in 40k first, and the book is entirely a Sisters book with wome half-arsed Inquisition units and barely four pages of Inquisition fluff thrown in as an afterthought.

Nabterayl

02-14-2010, 01:25 PM

The OH doesn't have any permanent attachments, OM has DK, OX has DW (which is a squad of indentured SM from various chapters, NOT an army)
The Deathwatch are more than a squad; they're more like an irregularly organized chapter. They've got bases spread across the frontier of the Imperium, after all.

But my point was that as far as I know they aren't part of the Inquisition. They're just space marines that are good at dealing with xenos, and upon whom the Ordo Xenos can call when it needs specialized muscle. So of the three major Chambers Militant, we have:
Sisters of Battle - not part of the Inquisition; subordinate to the Ecclesiarchy but can be called upon by the Ordo Hereticus
Deathwatch - not part of the Inquisition; independent space marine chapter but can be called upon by the Ordo Xenos
Grey Knights - part of the Inquisition; independent space marine chapter that sits on the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition but can be called upon by the Ordo Malleus (?) or subordinate to the Ordo Malleus but with their own representative on the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition (?)

DarkLink

02-14-2010, 02:23 PM

A codex combining four (Inquisition, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle) drastically different "armies" (assuming you can even call the Inquisition a proper army) is nothing but a failure waiting to happen. I'm hoping we get something good, instead. The rumors thus far have stated a Grey Knights or Daemonhunters codex in late this year / early next year, which would mean that they could actually do them justice. Would be unfortunate for Deathwatch players (Jervis Johnson has very strongly implied they will not be doing Deathwatch this edition), but better for everyone else.

No, they messed up last time and got carried away with the Inquisition in what was obviously a Sisters book. The Sisters were in 40k first, and the book is entirely a Sisters book with wome half-arsed Inquisition units and barely four pages of Inquisition fluff thrown in as an afterthought.

Pretty much fully agree. Particularly about throwing four separate, very different armies into one book being a recipe for disaster.

The Deathwatch are more than a squad; they're more like an irregularly organized chapter. They've got bases spread across the frontier of the Imperium, after all.

Well, as they currently exist they only seem to operate in squads. This could be changed, but it seems more like they "borrow" Marines, train them, put them in squads and those squads get sent out on missions across the galaxy.

Melissia

02-14-2010, 02:43 PM

The main reason I said this is that Jervis Johnson has many times actually stated that the only reason that the Inquisition is in the codex at all is because they got a little bit crazy trying to advertise for the Inquisitor specialist game. I don't really have anything against the Inquisition, I just don't want them in MY codex. :mad:

Coyote

02-14-2010, 10:49 PM

I'm personally hoping for a GK and SOB codex.

I think the general consensus is that SOB deserve a codex. Personally I can't say I care too much cause I don't play the army (though I've often considered it).

I do have a personal interest in the GK's. When I got back into 40k, I gravitated to the DH codex because of the GK models. It seems like most arguements against a GK codex are based on the fact they are too powerful and too spread thin to be an "army". To this I can only make a couple of arguments:

1. Are there not books which talk about Space Marines taking on hundreds of opponents single handedly. I've never heard anyone say that SM's shouldn't be a codex b/c they are poorly represented fluffwise on the tabletop.

2. Here's an interesting thought. What if they followed the fluff about getting specialized equipment that noone else can get b/c they are based out of the original forgeworld and kept the point cost high. In this way it could still keep it's uber elite/small in number feel.

What I've found interesting is that most who claim that GK's are not an army will alos go onto openly point out that GK's are the MILITANT arm of the OM. Hmmmm the militant arm, but not an army?

I also understand the view that they were purely created to fight chaos incursions, but (other than the fact that this is just a game so it shouldn't be such a big deal) there are a plethora of reasons to justify fighting other armies. In the Space Wolf Omnibus one of the stories culminated in a chaos incursion where a deamon had manipulated other xenos from behind the scenes. It's a big universe where our imaginations are the only boundaries.

I'm sorry to anyone who doesn't like the idea from a fluff standpoint, but I'd be even more pissed to see the hundreds of dollars I've spent on GK models go down the pisser b/c it doesn't fit their version of what the story "should be" In other words where does GW stand to lose the most money through loss of customers... bend the fluff or trash models that customers spent hard earned money on?

Anyways that's my 2 cents.

Spirit Leech

02-14-2010, 11:32 PM

What I've found interesting is that most who claim that GK's are not an army will alos go onto openly point out that GK's are the MILITANT arm of the OM. Hmmmm the militant arm, but not an army?

Just because they are the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus doesn't give them army status. When the OM needs an army they borrow a normal space marine chapter or IG regiment. When they need a precision instrument for the sole purpose of taking out a demon incursion, that is when they send in the Grey Knights.
The cautious attitude towards GK deployment as mentioned earlier is that the cost to train one is astronomical and seeing as how they only take strong psykers that severely limits the pool from which prospective recruits can be drawn from. So not only are they not fielded like an army, but their standing numbers don't qualify them for army status on the 40k scale.

If as you suggested in your post that a demon was manipulating xenos into actions against the imperium, it would seem more likely that the OM would let the expendable IG and Space marine chapters handle it as they are wont to do, and then send in a unit or two of terminators behind the scenes to take out the demon boss.

Madness

02-15-2010, 03:24 AM

Spirit leech, please stop making sense, I'm trying to fight a desperate battle here.

Nab, with due respect, I'm going to try and fix your post with what I believe is more accurate information

The Deathwatch are a pool of indentured marines from various chapters that are field on a Kill Squad basis, one, maybe two squads in an army usually are enough.
They are either fielded or standing by on the orders of OX.

Here's a list of three slightly related forces:
Sisters of Battle - not part of the Inquisition; subordinate to the Ecclesiarch(not the ecclesiarchy, just the "pope", a high ranked ecclesiarchy member has no authority over them) but can be called upon by any Inquisition branch, just like any other military unit, their targets are often similar to those of the OH.
Deathwatch - part of the Inquisition; indentured space marine force at the order of the Ordo Xenos
Grey Knights - part of the Inquisition; permanently attached space marine chapter whose highest ranked commander sits on the Inner Conclave of the Ordo Malleus

Coyote

02-15-2010, 08:09 AM

Well I'm obviously not going to change your mind and I'm happy to agree to disagree w/ you. I understand your rationale, but then again. By your reasoning the game should never change based on the fluff. So noone should be getting venerable dreads but SW's and LRC's but BT's? This game has an evolving story line and I hope(for you sake anyway) that the fluff evolves to accomadate both yours and my perspectives.

Have a great day:)

Madness

02-15-2010, 08:14 AM

Evolving the storyline doesn't mean retconning, I guess they could say "hey let's expand and cheapen out a chapter created by order of the emperor himself under his instructions" and it wouldn't even be something unique in the history, but dude, way to ruin a cool bunch of heroes.

Majorcrash

02-15-2010, 08:22 AM

I think theres no doubt, that theyare on there way, and possibly may come out earlier than expected. this maybe a stealth release to concide with the battle book?

Spirit Leech

02-15-2010, 08:30 AM

Why are people always bringing famed muscian Peter Noone of Herman's Hermits into these conversations ?

Nabterayl

02-15-2010, 10:47 AM

Madness,

What's your source for claiming that the Deathwatch is part of the Inquisition? I've long believed that myself but when I went looking I couldn't actually find anything.

As for the Grey Knights ... it occurred to me that it's a little fuzzy as to what their status actually is. "Permanently attached" I agree with, but I'm not sure what that really means. Space marines are "attached" to things all the time without giving up their autonomous status. If a space marine chapter "attaches" itself to your crusade, they probably intend to play nice in the sandbox, but the chapter master is in no way subordinating himself to the warmaster. So I asked myself - given that the Grey Knights (i) are space marines and (ii) have a seat on the Inner Conclave, do we really have any proof that they've subordinated themselves to the Ordo Malleus?

Brass Scorpion

02-15-2010, 10:56 AM

I think theres no doubt, that theyare on there way, and possibly may come out earlier than expected. this maybe a stealth release to concide with the battle book?
I believe nearly all of that is correct. Stealth is for generation five military aircraft, not GW releases.

DarkLink

02-15-2010, 09:47 PM

Just because they are the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus doesn't give them army status. When the OM needs an army they borrow a normal space marine chapter or IG regiment. When they need a precision instrument for the sole purpose of taking out a demon incursion, that is when they send in the Grey Knights.
The cautious attitude towards GK deployment as mentioned earlier is that the cost to train one is astronomical and seeing as how they only take strong psykers that severely limits the pool from which prospective recruits can be drawn from. So not only are they not fielded like an army, but their standing numbers don't qualify them for army status on the 40k scale.

If as you suggested in your post that a demon was manipulating xenos into actions against the imperium, it would seem more likely that the OM would let the expendable IG and Space marine chapters handle it as they are wont to do, and then send in a unit or two of terminators behind the scenes to take out the demon boss.

When the Ordo Malleus needs an army, they take anything and everything they can take. Whether that be Space Marines, IG, GK or other, it all depends on what is available.

And while you say they are not fielded as an army, there are several definite pieces of fluff directly contradicting that, Mandelius' 300 and the War for Armageddon being the two main examples.

Plus, pg. 52 and 53 of the DH codex is a long list of "Daemonhunters would fight [X army] because:", giving a half dozen or so possible reasons why Grey Knights would be fighting, say, Tau.

It seems that GW itself disagrees with your opinion on the matter. I mean, y'know, the wrote the codex and all that...

Madness,

What's your source for claiming that the Deathwatch is part of the Inquisition? I've long believed that myself but when I went looking I couldn't actually find anything.

As for the Grey Knights ... it occurred to me that it's a little fuzzy as to what their status actually is. "Permanently attached" I agree with, but I'm not sure what that really means. Space marines are "attached" to things all the time without giving up their autonomous status. If a space marine chapter "attaches" itself to your crusade, they probably intend to play nice in the sandbox, but the chapter master is in no way subordinating himself to the warmaster. So I asked myself - given that the Grey Knights (i) are space marines and (ii) have a seat on the Inner Conclave, do we really have any proof that they've subordinated themselves to the Ordo Malleus?

I would think of the Grey Knights as actual Inquisitors themselves, almost. However, they're the ones who do the combat. So like what SWAT is to normal police officers. They can act on their own, or act with a human Inquisitor in their combat capacity. The Grey Knights fight what the Ordos Malleus would fight. Which is anything to do with Chaos. This obviously includes Daemons, but extends to Chaos Marines, traitor Marines, traitor Guard, Eldar and any other psychically active or Chaos susceptive race. Additionally, if they have to, say, destroy a Chaos artifact that a Tau army happens to be sitting upon, they'll go ahead and take the Tau out. They are enemies of the Imperium, after all. No one will miss them.

As for the Deathwatch, they're a chamber militant of the Ordos Xenos. What this entails, well...:rolleyes:

Madness

02-16-2010, 03:22 AM

I'm sure an OM inquisitor has plenty of reasons to fight anyone (even tho the justification for Tau scenarios were pretty awful). I'm also sure that in a decently written universe, they wouldn't break out the DK for anything but daemons.

Permanently attached means that they answer to the OM command structure, but they do not bear the Rosette.

My sources for the DW are the chapter approved article and the DW-dedicated Index Astartes, both by Graham McNeil.

Btw, I suggest you DO read that GK+DW bit, it sheds any doubt you might still have thanks to the light-fluff 3rd ed codex.

DarkLink

02-16-2010, 08:43 AM

I'm sure an OM inquisitor has plenty of reasons to fight anyone (even tho the justification for Tau scenarios were pretty awful). I'm also sure that in a decently written universe, they wouldn't break out the DK for anything but daemons.

Well, at least only break them out for Chaos in any form. Grey Knights also fight chaos/traitor Marines/Guard and similar. I mean, look at the Grey Knight books. They plow their way through multiple cults while on the trail of the big daemon that's about to be summoned.

So at the least, it's easy to justify Grey Knights fighting any human forces, as well as, say, Eldar/Dark Eldar since they deal with chaos stuff a lot as well. It's Tau and the like that are tougher to justify.

Artein

02-18-2010, 04:26 PM

It's just a rumour but....

Don't ask how I know, I won't tell. My sorce is good enough that even a breath of a hint would be very very bad. Plastic grey knights and sisters for christmas 2010.
(from B&C)

Madness

02-18-2010, 06:39 PM

DarkLink

02-18-2010, 09:02 PM

When I said daemons I meant daemons, there might be stuff to kill from point a to point b, but having a point b is mandatory. But again that's just me wanting to see specialist be specialist and not generalists.

Lol, army wide Grey Knight special rule; "Every time you play against a Grey Knight army, if the Grey Knight army wins, you MUST play a second game using either Codex: Daemons, Chaos Marines, of a Chaos themed Imperial Guard army. If you do not own one of these armies, you must purchase one for use in this eventuality."

Madness

02-19-2010, 02:39 AM

Sharazad'ed.

eldargal

02-19-2010, 04:06 AM

Don't ask how I know, I won't tell. My sorce is good enough that even a breath of a hint would be very very bad. Plastic grey knights and sisters for christmas 2010.

I hope this is true. So much.

Melissia

02-19-2010, 04:07 PM

And I hope it involves two codices, as well. Getting two codices which are each dedicated to a single army would be hella better than one which is the same size that's split between three armies (or four if you consider the Inquisition an army).

Lamenter

02-20-2010, 03:03 AM

The release of a new Inquisition Codex could be the reason for them holding back on releasing plastic Stormtroopers... just a thought.

Melissia

02-20-2010, 09:12 AM

More likely, the Grey Knights / Daemonhunters codex that is supposed to come out late this year. An "Inquisition" codex would be bad, unless it was dedicated specifically to the Inquisition in specific rather than being four armies combined. I certainly would not mind seeing an Inquisition codex, where the Inquisitors are HQ units, and everything else is filled out with various types of retinue, stormtroopers, and servitors, forming a sort of freakshow from top to bottom.

DarkLink

02-20-2010, 12:31 PM

And I could even see them including one or two units of IG, Space Marines, Sisters and Grey Knights in the Inquisition 'dex, to supplant the ally rules. So we'd have the whole Inquisition freakshow, then, say, Grey Knights/SMs as a 0-1 elite choice, and basic Sisters and IG platoons as a 0-2 troop choice.

Or something like that.

kriswithak

02-22-2010, 08:28 PM

I can't see inquisition getting its own codex, not without both GK and SoB getting their own individual codexes first, and particularly not at the expense of those codexes, which have somewhat of a cult following, and would lead to a huge backlash from alot of the hardcore collecters.

There also won't be an 'allying problem' unless they significantly buff the current codexes, which since they aren't technically Space Marines or IG might not happen, and a few rules about certain unit combos that people are using to exploit currently outdated wargear/units would easily fix all the issues.

Kahoolin

02-22-2010, 08:57 PM

I'll tell you something I hope does happen when/if they redo these guys - I hope allying is still possible. I really like how Imperial armies can be slotted into each other right now, to me it makes sense and allows you to have models in your army you otherwise wouldn't.

I've been doing it for years for flavour reasons, and it sucks that allying now has a stigma attached. I've read more than a few people online say that allying is not fair and honourable players shouldn't do it. This annoys me. I understand you can use edition inconsistencies to get stupid advantages, but I really like that I can add an inquisitor or a squad of sisters to my guard if I feel like it, and it would be a real shame if this became impossible. I like the sisters models and fluff but I'm not interested in playing them as an exclusive army. Is that so bad?

I don't hold out much hope though :(

DarkLink

02-23-2010, 12:07 AM

I hope allying is still possible.

I personally doubt it will be, especially if they're splitting Inquisition, Sisters and Grey Knights into three codices. However, I wouldn't be too surprised if they included some "allied" units as actual entries in the Inquisition codex. I personally think they'd need to, just to fill slots with viable units.

thecactusman17

02-24-2010, 06:32 PM

I personally doubt it will be, especially if they're splitting Inquisition, Sisters and Grey Knights into three codices. However, I wouldn't be too surprised if they included some "allied" units as actual entries in the Inquisition codex. I personally think they'd need to, just to fill slots with viable units.

I suspect it would be more like a special scenario rule released for gmes like Planetstrike or Battlemissions.

But I also wouldn't discount that you might be able to take a single unit (an Inquisitor for example) in a foreign army. OR that you wouldn't be able to ally in a limited number of IG/SM similar to what they have now. I would advise against allowing anything besides basic dedicated transports for vehicles, though.

Also: I realize that a number of us have some specific hope regarding the combined/seperate codexes, myself included. Having said that, I realize looking back on my own posts and replies to similar posts that while a somewhat serious issue to us all, this is actually detracting from more solid and useful rumors and discussion. Until we have some actual info one way or the other, maybe we could calm that one down. If GW are looking at a release later this year or early next, I guarantee you that the decision has already been made and is probably pretty difficult if not impossible to change by now.

Here's a question: there are new vehicle sculpts, reportedly, for the Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters. Here are some personal ideas on what I would expect (read, this is CONJECTURE based on currently known Imperial armore options and GW stance on vehicle outfitting):

Redesigned or heavily resculpted Exorcist. the current exorcist is an absolute love it or hate it design, and the way the Organ is sculpted causes visual cover nightmares.

Possiby the addition of the Repressor instead of the Chimera. The Repressor is a heavily armored cross between the Chimera and the Immolator with a heavy flamer and a large transport capacity. This is a perfect option for Stormtrooper squads. and is curently a Forgeworld IA model.

The addition of a Redeemer varient for the Grey Knight Land Raider. This one is almost a no-brainer. The LR is a signature GK vehicle (if for no other reason than it is one of their ONLY vehicles) and the Redeemer outfitted with Incinerator Cannons has been a major wishlist since 5e Space Marines dropped.

Probably a single "Inquisition" sprue for outfitting INQ rhinos, similar to how Chaos Rhinos/tanks are done now.

Probably a major redesign of Immolator options and abilities, similar to the hellhound, with more "uniqu" options.

Time to get back to work. Once again, this is CONJECTURE AND HYPOTHESIS based on sightings in recent codex releases and Imperial Armor updates.

MadCowCrazy

02-24-2010, 06:47 PM

There are a fiew things I would love to see redone into plastic

Canoness - Doubtful they would remake since its a blister
Battle Sisters - 9 plastic sisters and a sister superior which could be converted into a Canoness
Arco-Flagellants - Doubt they would remake but I would still like to see it done
Sister Repentia - They have been taken off the store and a Mistress 3up has been seen so I have high hopes for a remake here.
Seraphim - Taken off the website so Im expecting a remake, though just the jumppacks are needed to make your own if they redid battle sisters into plastic.
Repressor - I do believe they would add this to the sisters as a standard transport, Id love to see it anyways to give the sisters something unique in the way of transports (immolator dont count since it can only carry 6 models)
Penitent Engine - This in plastic would be awsome and would allow for some cool conversion work.
Exorcist - I have 5 kits of this thing and god do I hate it, havent put a single one together because of mold problems, use whirlwinds instead atm. This redone into plastic or even the boring FW version would do.
Immolator - The only plastic kit for the SoB, I wouldnt mind them updating the model a bit, give them inferno cannons or something but thats just wishlisting. I think the kit is pretty good as it stands now.

Melissia

02-24-2010, 07:03 PM

The Canoness would be the most in need of being redone. It's a really poor looking model...

Repentia have not been taken off the store.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30047&prodId=prod1080201
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30047&prodId=prod1080202

Neither have Seraphim.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30049&prodId=prod1080223
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30049&prodId=prod1080226
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30049&prodId=prod1080228
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30049&prodId=prod1080229
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30049&prodId=prod1080224
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30049&prodId=prod1080227
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat30049&prodId=prod1080225

Until we have some actual info one way or the other
Jervis Johnson has consistently and repeatedly stated in response to letters and emails by numerous people that there will be a Sisters of Battle and a Grey Knights codex, and there will be no Ordo Xenos / Deathwatch added to 40k this edition. Similarly, current rumors state that a Grey Knights codex will be out late this year or early next year

There was a thread in this forum about the latter, and a series of threads about the former on the BnC.

Thus why I'm actually having high hopes that GW will make separate codices instead of a crappy one. And yes, one combined codex is a disaster waiting to happen.

Commissar Lewis

02-24-2010, 07:18 PM

I'm hoping they do have plastic Sisters and a new Sisters codex - I do so love the badass chicks with power armor and bolters.

I would have continued Sisters except the $40 for 10 metal models wasn't financially feasible for me, so I went Guard back when they had the $35 for 20 Guardsmen.

DarkLink

02-24-2010, 09:25 PM

Jervis Johnson has consistently and repeatedly stated in response to letters and emails by numerous people that there will be a Sisters of Battle and a Grey Knights codex, and there will be no Ordo Xenos / Deathwatch added to 40k this edition. Similarly, current rumors state that a Grey Knights codex will be out late this year or early next year

And he's been saying it for years. Sure, it's taken a long time for GW to get around to doing it, but when there are years of rumors indicating that it will eventually happen, all the way from the top, and then a bunch of brand new rumors pop up all at the same time from multiple, reliable sources that it will happen very soon, I'm going to believe them.

Melissia

02-24-2010, 09:59 PM

I just hope they get rid of the corsets, boob-cups, and metal garter belts...

Kahoolin

02-24-2010, 10:39 PM

I just hope they get rid of the corsets, boob-cups, and metal garter belts...I agree. A one piece breastplate would be nice. Still, I hope they don't change them too much or my old metal sisters will look wierd next to the new ones.

MadCowCrazy

02-25-2010, 03:48 AM

T
Repentia have not been taken off the store.
Neither have Seraphim.

If you want the latest updates you need to check out the UK site, the Canadian, US and Oz sites are always the last to get updated. Always have been, prolly always will be.

On all the EU sites the following have been removed.
Sisters of Battle:
10 Battle Sister box
10 Repentia box
5 Seraphim box

Grey Knights:
5 PAGK box

Was told the justicar and psycannon blisters are 10% off on the Oz site as well. Like they are trying to get rid of the last blisters before a rerelease or having received too many from recalls from shops and selling them at 10% off (10% off is VERY unlike GW though).

MadCowCrazy

02-25-2010, 03:50 AM

I just hope they get rid of the corsets, boob-cups, and metal garter belts...

Aww, only think missing is a power armour chastity belt and boob spikes, then they would be purrfect.

Artein

02-25-2010, 06:24 AM

I had a dream today about....

New Inquisition codex, combined with GK and SoB. :(
I don't remember it very well, but Sisters' models were pretty nice. New Seraphims, like the current one, but more dynamic, with model bases that were making them more in-air like.
A Sister model with two guns.... a bit like Cypher.

I wonder if that was prophetic vision or not :P

But still, Sisters in combined codex is bad. :(

Madness

02-25-2010, 08:10 AM

I just hope they get rid of the corsets, boob-cups, and metal garter belts...So basically you want to keep the high heels the flaunty shoulderpads and the helmet? Isn't that a bit radical?

Also, it could be worse.

Faultie

02-25-2010, 09:43 AM

I actually really like the helmet on the Sororitas models. Certain parts are odd (mainly the bullet-trap bosom), but the rest of the armor (I think) looks good and is both highly stylized and somewhat functional.

http://www.fantasyshop.gr/gallery/40k-Witch%20Hunters-Pic%201.jpg
I like the thinner Godwyn-Deaz bolter, and the armor overall, and the helmet is nice.

[Edit] Oh yeah, and the heels are ridiculous as well.

Madness

02-25-2010, 09:59 AM

I don't really see how the chest being "anatomically correct" is a deficiency.
It's not like it's impeding any movement that any other power armor does allow, and unnecessary cave mass will just provide more target.

Plus there's also the psychological/iconic factor, their being female is something they own and eventually use (and I don't mean as an arousal technique).
Why should the armor hide their identity any more than what Dante's armor does with Dante?

It's like complaining about Dark Angels' robes, space wolves' pelts, dkok's trenchcoats and so on, if a normal MK7 marine does the job, why adding unnecessary bits? If a catachan has enough armor why add more? Because.

Because it's an universe of misterious and fantasy stuff. Because they are scared of any change. Because it looks cool. Way cooler than the alternative.

I agree that the leathery looking corsets that appear in SOME artwork are very un-power armor looking, but the miniatures themselves do not suffer from that. In fact most illustrations depict the chestpiece as a whole solid part covering the abdomen as well.

andrewm9

02-25-2010, 10:11 AM

Madness

02-25-2010, 10:23 AM

Yeah it's possible, although if it were on my minies, I'd file/greenstuff it off, luckily it's not there altogether. It's just on a bunch (3) illustrations.

DarkLink

02-25-2010, 10:24 AM

I don't really see how the chest being "anatomically correct" is a deficiency.

Aside from the fact that it's an idiotic armor design...

(not only do I doubt it would be at all comfortable to wear, but it also creates a bullet trap in the center of the chest)

Dooley

02-25-2010, 10:26 AM

I believe I read in one of the sisters books that they were simple robes much like Space Marines when they arent doin there thing. I believe the intent was for them to be like nuns now a days. When they arent nunin it up they were very simple and modest attire.

Madness

02-25-2010, 10:31 AM

MK7 has a bullet trap right under the helmet (which is the reason why MK8 has a gorget) but that doesn't stop marines from wearing it.

That design is as comfortable as any other whole body covering armor, there really is NO way to make it comfortable unless you give up on some points.

Then again it's a fantastic setting in which people think that the better way to maintain a weapon is to pray while doing it.

Melissia

02-25-2010, 11:41 AM

So basically you want to keep the high heels the flaunty shoulderpads and the helmet? Isn't that a bit radical?
The shoulderplates are fine, they do their job despite being stylized. The high heels, meh, whatever, they aren't as extreme as the ******* corsets and METAL GARTER BELTS even if I'd rather be rid of them too (high heels in combat is a big no... as anyone whom has actually worn high heels would know...). The helmets are the best looking helmets in all of 40k.

For the breastplate, something similar to this would be fine.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/melissiablackheart/th_FemKnight.jpg (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/melissiablackheart/FemKnight.jpg)
Or perhaps something similar to the chest design of Titania (http://www.path-of-radiance.info/images/dl/titania.jpg) from Fire Emblem.

As for replacing the corset itself, the Dawn of War art had the right idea.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/melissiablackheart/th_Sisters-Single.jpg (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/melissiablackheart/Sisters-Single.jpg)
While not perfect, the bellow portion of that certainly is better than what we currently have-- it looks like... actual ARMOR.

Or this:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/melissiablackheart/th_Adepta_Sororitas_by_FirstKeeper.jpg (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/melissiablackheart/Adepta_Sororitas_by_FirstKeeper.jpg)
Which, again, looks far more like armor than the corset does, even if the image has the boob-cups.

I want my Sisters to wear armor. Not a FETISH OUTFIT. They are holy warriors, not whores.

Madness

02-25-2010, 12:06 PM

The DoW art is VERY close to the 2nd ed. art still used in C:WH, I do agree that those THREE artworks featuring leather corsets kind of take away from the badassitude, yet far from being scantily enough for me to yell "heathens!"

The third artwork you posted is a very rational take. And therefore very un-40k-ish, 40k is not a place of reasonable design, it's over the top, filled with useless decorations and quirky additions, SPECIALLY inside the imperium. In fact you might notice that her shoulderpads aren't as humongous. Also, where's the power pack?

Further, where are the vents in the usual SoB pack?

Melissia

02-25-2010, 12:14 PM

Yes, 40k is stylized. That is no reason to make an armor for a group of holy warriors, priestesses, and soldiers of god, which look far more suitable for sluts and whores at a BDSM convention.

John Blanche should be locked in his office while a REAL artist designs the Sisters' armor :P

Madness

02-25-2010, 12:43 PM

But Blanche and Goodwin ARE the soul of 40k. You just have to take Blanche's stuff with a hint of perspective. Unless you're playing chaos, in which case you can use it raw.

I might be from europe but with the exception of Repentia (which are kinda tongue-in-cheek as far as I'm concerned) they don't strike me as "slutty". SPECIALLY considering how the minis turned out to be.

rbryce

02-25-2010, 01:45 PM

might i add that wearing a corset is neither trampy or whoreish. id hardly call queen victoria a tramp and a whore, though she wore one, and many other female historical figures. the imperium kinda exists in a steam-punk rennaissance/romantic(as in the victorian art movement) state, so for me the corsets are fine, as they're more historical reference than bdsm night club, but thats just my opinion.

Nabterayl

02-25-2010, 03:15 PM

Gotta admit, I also like the corset corselets. I know that when that art decision was made corsets had become fetishized, so I concede the point that in historical context it was intended to sexualize the Sororitas - the original Sororitas aesthetic deliberately whipsaws wildly between "These are sexy whores" and "These are badass to the point of being completely asexual," and the corset corselets was a part of that.

But ...

Up here in 2010, when educated people roll their eyes at the fetishization of the corset, I think it makes a lot of sense. A corset is a structured support garment, like a lifting belt for the entire torso. Yes, they can be used to rearrange a woman's internal organs, but when corsets were simply underwear that was not how they were normally worn. Yes, they can be uncomfortable, but that's what you get when you either a) don't know how a corset should be laced or b) are buying off-the-rack corsets made to theoretical average measurements (i.e., wearing corsets that don't fit).

A good corset is supportive and no more restrictive than any well-fitting corselet. You should be able to carry on vigorous physical activity for twelve hours in a good corset without difficulty (possibly more, but I can quote twelve hours from personal experience).

Which means, of all the parts of the Sororitas power armor deliberately styled after feminine garments, the corset corselet is actually my favorite, because it's the only part that actually makes sense.

Madness

02-25-2010, 03:28 PM

You made me realize that some (tbh most :/) of my female friends actually LIKE corsets.

rbryce

02-25-2010, 03:32 PM

and they're a more expensive hobby than ours, but you dont get to paint them ;)

Madness

02-25-2010, 03:35 PM

Speak for yourself.

J/K.

Melissia

02-25-2010, 03:55 PM

Nabterayl

02-25-2010, 04:16 PM

Let's see, corset, garter belts, boob-cups (Basically metal bras), loin-cloths...

No, you won't dissuade me from pointing out that they are extremely sexualized, nor from absolutely despising John Blanche. He should not be allowed to draw any female ever :P
Oh, I wouldn't try to, and I don't like his artwork either. But corset-inspired armor is a design characteristic I'd like to see stay, for the reasons I stated.

For me, it isn't a question of de-sexualizing the Sororitas, so much as finding a way to sexualize them in a tasteful way. For instance, consider their shoulder guards. Sororitas use spaulders, while Astartes use pauldrons? Why? Because the trope is that spaulders are feminine (being comparatively delicate), and pauldrons are masculine (being comparatively massive). It's no accident that only the female power armor has spaulders. Nor is it an accident that the female power armor has form-fititng cuisses, or that the Godwyn-De'az is longer than the Godwyn.

All of these are deliberate artistic attempts to emphasize a battle sister's femininity - to "sexualize" her, if we can use that term academically instead of pejoratively. But they aren't offensive to me; instead, I find them tasteful and attractive and within the highly stylized oeuvre of the 40K universe (to the unspoken question: yes, I do think there is such a thing as over-the-top, even within 40K's aesthetic). If the Sororitas look is redesigned, I'd welcome the retention of these "sexualizing" elements. Same with the corset corselets.

Madness

02-25-2010, 04:51 PM

Corset doesn't strike me as sexual, un-armor-like maybe, but not *too* sexual.
Garter belts aren't heavily featured so I don't really have an opinion on them, tbh I can't remember seeing one.
Boobcups are fully armored and melded with the armor piece, they would disturb me if they were chainmail bikinis, but they are just another feature of anatomical correctness, not too overt again, cleavage would have disturbed me much more for instance, plus I've grown up seeing bug muscular guys with speedos over the (lycra) pants...
Loincloths are fantasy and featured in so many places that I can't really blame them on SoBs... in fact they have a partial merit of tastefully distract from power armored arses.

I'm sorry you despise Blanche so much, he contributed to the vision that is 40k, which includes what you dislike and what you like, and I guess you like more than you dislike.

Melissia

02-25-2010, 05:09 PM

And regardless of this, he still cannot draw females except as sex objects, full of his own sexual fetishes and perversions. Some of his art is so bad that it's almost a parody of itself, like high heels bigger than a person's head, and multi-legged humanoids that seem to have more than two legs for the sheer purpose of having more thigh-high skin-tight leather boots with heels larger than tha person's head, and their legs themselves are about 1.5 times as long as the entire body of the rest of the person combined, often with a scrunched up body with anything above the waist.

I very much dislike a good portion of his artwork and most of the rest I'm kinda "meh" about; from 40k art to non-40k art it's on average rather lame and ugly to look at, disproportionate and almost every other GW artist is better than Blanche and captures the feel of 40k better. Whether or not he "inspired" the rest of them (which I still to this day doubt), he's still a crappy artist. I do not think of Blanche when I think of 40k, except as how NOT to draw 40k.

edit: yes, I know I'm unorthodox. I don't even see Space Marines as either necessary nor interesting parts of the fluff, they aren't, to me, what truly makes 40k. My views on 40k are likely to be very alien to most people whom get into it, and many of them have a hard time reconciling the fact that I don't view Space Marines as iconic of 40k, nevermind other more specific views that I hold.

MadCowCrazy

02-25-2010, 07:01 PM

Well, for those that dont like the way the SoB armour looks right now there is atleast an alternative. If you want armour for them that is actually "practical" you can just give them IG armour. Thats more in line of what females in the military wear today.
Heck you could even just use IG troops and call them sisters because with helmets on its hard to tell the difference between male and female anyways. You could do some easy conversion buy cutting heads off SoB models and gluing them onto IG troops, then you would get what SoB would look like if they wore practical combat armour that made sence from our worlds point of view.

Then again I think they would look like ****, I want to actually be able to tell my models are female and stylized. If I wanted realism I wouldnt play 40k, Id play Flames of War.

Im really looking forwards to some new SoB plastic models, Im sure they will look great. Too bad we might not see them for a year or so.

Madness

02-25-2010, 07:01 PM

Not all art is realism, actually a very small portion of it is, I can see how it's fitting to everyone's tastes.

But specially when it comes to the excesses of 40k, Blanche is one of the main inspirations, if the redemptionists (the first TRUE taste of ecclesiarchy insanity) are so over the top is because Blanche saw it like that, if 40k is grimdark and not just "pretty bad" it's because of Blanche.

It's not like we're talking of a Rob Liefeld here, Blanche does not even TRY to be realistic, it's not his purpose, he might be able to, or not, but it's really beyond the point, the artwork should inspire at a conceptual level, you can't judge with that canon, because in that case Salvador Dalì is a seriously crappy painter (or Pablo Picasso just to name another extremely famous one).

It's not about representing reality as it is/might be, it's about painting how you see it.

A great example (and one everyone righfully abuses) is H.R. Giger, without his explicitly phallic (and generally sexual) biomorphs we wouldn't have the Aliens movies/games/comics/whatever; of course his creations were somewhat simplified and adapted removing the more obvious hints, but there's really something in our brains that clicks when we see hints to those "familiar" shapes. And most psychology schools of thought agree.

And consider I don't like that art style either, but I'm just saying that it has a value.

Also stop talking about fetishes and perversions as though they were bad things. Because in 40k you also have xenophobia, fascism, obtuse zealotry, inhumane torture, a complete disregard for life and environment. A sexual fetish or "perversion" is the least of the problems.

What worries me is that I already had this kind of discussion (about sexuality in the arts) a couple of times, and it was always with people from the states, I'm not a big fan of stereotypes but I'm getting the feeling that there's not enough exposition to "traditional" art in that culture. But tbh it's a common problem, they tried to "censor" some classic statues genitalia here too.

P.S.: I'm not implying Blanche is on the level of Dalì or Picasso, or H.R. Giger for that matter.

About SM, feel free to feel however you want about the 40k universe, but fact is that it was developed around the imperium, and the cornerstone of the imperium history is the Horus Heresy, which was fought by the genetic template for all the SMs and a traitor SMs Primarch. I love every other race (except Necrons & Dark Eldar who were introduced late and in a poor way) and their role in the setting, but the setting is created around the Imperium, and the major plot hooks of the Imperium feature SMs. So yeah, you can't really take away space marines without losing the Horus Heresy and devastating the baseline of what the Imperium is.

Nabterayl

02-25-2010, 07:25 PM

You know, I don't want to speak for Mel, but for me, this isn't about realism or offensive gender stereotypes. It's about how well the art fits the rest of the idea.

This is 40K, so obviously everybody's idea of "the idea" of Adepta Sororitas is different. My idea of the Adepta Sororitas requires them to be sexy - but sexy in the way that a smart, tough, professional woman who is pretty but not gorgeous is sexy. Sororitas, to me, belong to the same family of sexy as characters like Samus Aran, or Jenette Vasquez, or Trudy Chacon. They're visually attractive (I wholeheartedly approve of the fact that Sororitas wear feminized armor, and I personally love page 19 of the Witch Hunters codex), but they act like soldiers.

Some elements of some Sororitas artwork I feel doesn't really carry forward that sexy-because-I'm-not-being-sexy attitude. The size of the boob cups is my main one (though the page 19 boob cups I like a lot more than the Soulstorm cover boob cups), along with high heeled sabatons (as opposed to platform sabatons).

And then sometimes it's just the portrayal. Which is the main reason I don't like the Blanche artwork. I feel like Blanche's artwork shades too far from the I'm-a-professional-soldier attitude that is the core of the Sororitas idea to me, and overplays the I'm-sexy aspect. I know that, in the context of the '80s, that may not have been what Blanche intended (I have the same problems with Amazonia Gothique (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Blanche_-_Amazonia_Gothique.jpg), for instance, which I know he intended as a big "**** you" to people who refused to portray fully armored women in a sci-fi/fantasy context), but that's how it strikes me.

Madness

02-25-2010, 07:41 PM

For me the best depiction is page 10. Badass girls with big m'f'n guns. But you can't really measure cupsizewise, EVERY bit of artwork is different, even from the same author, hell I suppose even in-universe sisters have different sizes.

Again, I concur in not enjoying Blanche's stuff per se, even if there's people like a friend of mine that do like it A LOT (slaanesh player, does he count?), but it's a driving force none the less.

Nabterayl

02-25-2010, 07:52 PM

Yeah, and again, I don't actually mind the boob cups all that much as a design element. I mean yeah, they're shot traps, and no, they don't make a lot of sense, but very little war materiel in this universe makes sense from a military standpoint. I see no reason to single out Sororitas boob cups just because they encase something feminine. For me, it's the overall tone of the art and the portrayal that's important.

And sometimes, I mean, hey, maybe I just don't appreciate the historical context. I look at Amazonia Gothique and the ginormous legs, the two-foot stiletto heels, and the huge codpiece all say, "I AM AN OBJECTIFIED FEMALE." But when Blanche painted that it was a way of saying, "SCI-FI WOMEN CAN BE SEXY WITHOUT BEING NAKED GODDAMMIT."

Which is a sentiment that I agree with. But I still don't like the painting :p

daboarder

02-25-2010, 09:28 PM

Have you considered that it's a form of sci-fi gothic armour. I mean you don't see bloke's being upset buy the movie 300 because they have sculpted curias's do you. It's just another form of art designed to look cool and contain some very weak refrence's to medival history. It's not as if the artists and sculptures sat down and thought "in what way can we create the most objective sculpt of women possible" so get down off that high horse and either enjoy the unique look or shut up.

edit: for the sake of not leading to an argument I'll add that yes I am aware this post is a bit of a rant but oh well

Kahoolin

02-25-2010, 09:36 PM

So get down off that high horse and either enjoy the unique look or shut up.Good grief. This is not going to end well...

Brass Scorpion

02-25-2010, 10:26 PM

And when was the last post in this topic that actually contained some information or a plausible rumor about the upcoming new Inquisition rules? This thread is now 33 pages long!?

Madness

02-25-2010, 10:45 PM

Last page.

Melissia

02-25-2010, 10:59 PM

And I think you're entirely (or at least mostly) missing the point, Madness, though Nab got some of it and kinda help me explain why I dislike it so much.

John Blanche's moronic, ugly, and just plain bad art aside, the miniatures for the Adepta Sororitas do not to me say "holy warriors" or "crusaders". THAT is who the sisters of Battle are. I don't expect them to look "realistic to reality", I expect them to look like badass unrelenting crusaders in powered armor. I want to look at them and imagine them marching across a battlefield killing and burning everything they see in the name of the Immortal God-Emperor of Mankind.

And instead I see dominatrix whores. Whips and women clad in strips of paper included.

Also, shutup daboarder.

daboarder

02-25-2010, 11:26 PM

Melissa I understand that art is a personal thing, but if you look at images of preserved "Gothic" Plate armour, which was the pinacle of the armoured Knight, it is highly ornamental and play's on stereo-types that existed even during the middle ages. Now if you think about Taking that image, feminsing it (Using stereotypes) and then make it futuristic, i think you'll find that what you come up with is remarkably close to SOB imagery. The picture i personaly feel BEST exemplifies this is probably the sketches in the codex that describes the wargear of the sister's. However i think that most of the modern SOB art owes its strength's to blanche's earlier works.

Melissia

02-25-2010, 11:44 PM

I have also seen gothic armor, indeed even real historical pieces of it. The Sisters of Battle armor is not "gothic" to me.

Let's look at something like these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Готический_доспех.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Maximilienne-p1000557.jpg
Very stylized of course, they look awesome Both of these, by the way, could be made to fit most women without any real discomfort, and indeed if you look at drawings of Jeanne d'Arc, she could be mistaken for a feminine man because of her armor.

Now compare that to a Sisters of Battle armor. Anything on the belly or chest doesn't match with the gothic style, but the rest of the Sisters of Battle armor matches just fine. It is, to me, the corsets, garter belts, and boob-cups (hell, even just the fact that they're overexaggerated on many models to the point of parody) that ruins it. I can understand the need to make the armor feminine, but this is going too far to the point of bad taste.

daboarder

02-26-2010, 12:03 AM

I know that female knights (yes they did exist) used to wear armour that was undistinguishable to that of male knights, However from an artistic point of veiw it just isn't as cool to me.

I do however have a question Melissa, of the current miniatures i feel that the best design is celesting and to me it is almost a perfect representation of the SOB's, Now there are some minatures in the range that i agree are "wth" moments, such as the canoness chest. but what i would like to ask you is, what are you're thoughts on the current model range, do any of them hit the artistic mark as it were for you?

Melissia

02-26-2010, 12:09 AM

Pieces of them, yes. The helmets are the best in 40k, I like the boots and gauntlets, and I don't honestly mind the loincloth/robes (despite my mentioning them, it's really just them combined with the corset and etc) looking like priestessees in armor, and I like the visual style of the Seraphim jump pack. There really isn't a model that makes me think "that's Sisters" because there is, to me, something innately wrong with some of the core elements of the current armor style. The "Battle Sister with Flamer 1" model is the closest. by far, as the flamer and the stance cover up much of the flaws. It still has the poorly done boob-cups, though.

rbryce

02-26-2010, 01:32 AM

DarkLink

02-26-2010, 02:06 AM

dare i ask mel, why play sisters? it seems as though you hate the rules, concept art, models, current fluff, designers, and just about everything else. im not being mean with this, i just cant figure it out. i know you also play guard, so it cant be because they are female, as you can make female guard. have you converted any minis to match your view? if so can we see them?

Actually, she loves the rules. And the concept. And it quite clear and vocal about it.

However, she doesn't like metal garters and high heels. Quite understandably. They're stupid, for lack of a better term. Not only are they not practical, but they're not even cool. They look like a vain attempt at pseudo-sexual gratification on behalf of the model designer. And Melissia is quite vocal about her disdain for such objectification.

In fact, Melissia is quite vocal about pretty much anything she cares to chime in on...

Edit: And having an old codex grant an automatic pass when complaining about your army's rules ;). I do it with my Grey Knights a lot.

MadCowCrazy

02-26-2010, 04:19 AM

Melissia is whats know as a Vocal Minority.
She (or is it a he?) is very biased about what she wants and quite vocal about it.
The question is though, if you (Melissia) hate the SoB body armour so much why dont you just buy some spheezz mehreens and put SoB helmets on them. You would get pretty much everything you say you want. Everything you dont like about sisters would be gone, no high heels, no corsets, no boob cups, no shoulderpads.

Just put SoB heads and packpacks on smurfs and you have your army. I doubt you are looking forwards to a remake of the SoB model line because you have to realise its not going to be much different from what it looks like now.

Personally I like the art on page 7, the armour looks practical and the corset design looks more like a layering of plasteel very similar to how "Dragon Armour" works that we have in todays military.
To me sisters cant be as bulky as smurfs because they are a shooty close range army.

On with the drama

Madness

02-26-2010, 05:44 AM

Gothic means MANY things (and in a latest episode of QI they analyzed that pretty well), which you can simplify in 2, the historic gothic (period and/or germanic tribe) OR grotesque (as for gothic fonts, mopey music, and many many other things).

40k is very gothic, as in depressing, not as "from the gothic period" or "of the barbaric people known as goths".

You start a post by saying "You're missing the point" and follow with "John Blanche's moronic, ugly, and just plain bad art aside", which is a clear signal I hit the point so hard I can roll an extra d6 for penetration. John Blanche's art is not moronic, nor ugly, nor just plain bad. It's grotesque, on purpose, and it's very effective at being so.
John Blanche is a widely recognized artist in his movement, and people who love that kind of gothic, surreal art form, tend to like Blanche a lot.

In other words, is Blanche incompetent? No, hell no. Does that mean everyone should like his stuff? Neither. Was his contribution fundamental to shape the 40k universe in its look & feel? Hell yeah.

Back to sororitas design, the more I read your opinon on that the more I get the feeling that's due to Repentia + Dominatrix;if so, I get it, I really do, they are really over the top, excessive, but I accepted that as a tongue-in-cheek thing, an excess I'd hate if it wasn't a one-of. Just like I accepted how brutal are arcoflagellants for instance. The "pure" Ministrorum units are meant to be seriously insane people, to the point that marines, sororitas and commissars look reasonable in comparison, Repentia are a bridge between this and that.

If I instead watch the artwork on page 10, I see nothing but pure win. As I also saw on the 2nd ed codex when it came out. (btw, the 2nd ed. cover is by Blanche as well, a proof that he can, when he wants, be much more reasonable.)

eldargal

02-26-2010, 07:35 AM

Because 7ft tall genetically enhanced musclemen look so much like militant nuns? I'm not answering for Melissia, but SoB have their own aesthetic (which does need a bit of revision), swapping them out for Space Marines is just silly. On account of them not, in fact, being space marines.

I don't think the new range needs to be that different personally, just ditch the corsets, drop the Adepta Sororitas regulation minimum cup size from DD to C and point out that garters* should worn under the armour.

*Much of the cost of outfitting SoB comes from the seamed silk stockings, hard not to ladder them in combat situations.

Melissia is whats know as a Vocal Minority.
She (or is it a he?) is very biased about what she wants and quite vocal about it.
The question is though, if you (Melissia) hate the SoB body armour so much why dont you just buy some spheezz mehreens and put SoB helmets on them. You would get pretty much everything you say you want. Everything you dont like about sisters would be gone, no high heels, no corsets, no boob cups, no shoulderpads.

Just put SoB heads and packpacks on smurfs and you have your army. I doubt you are looking forwards to a remake of the SoB model line because you have to realise its not going to be much different from what it looks like now.

Personally I like the art on page 7, the armour looks practical and the corset design looks more like a layering of plasteel very similar to how "Dragon Armour" works that we have in todays military.
To me sisters cant be as bulky as smurfs because they are a shooty close range army.

On with the drama

rbryce

02-26-2010, 08:11 AM

can i just add, i was asking mel a question, not everyone elses opinion on mels views. i dont want to seem to be victimising anyone for their views, it is just curiosity on my part. i guess i shoulda pm'd that question.

MadCowCrazy

02-26-2010, 08:27 AM

Wrote stuff

Well, what do you get if you remove all the thing Melissia dislikes about the SoB?
First remove the heels and replace them with regular combat boots. Remove the corset and replace it with a piece of armour that doesnt have boobcups, remove the shoulder pads and replace them with marine equivalents, add the Sororitas helm and you are done. What do we have? A space marine.

If you dislike the boobcups you can file them off, if you dislike the corset you can replace it with a SM chest piece or a guard chest piece. Heels? Ive actually never noticed any on my models but I guess there are some since high heels have been mentioned a fiew times, I know it can be found in the art atleast. 2ed Cover is a GRAND example. I always thought that cover looked like **** though.

The point Im making is if you simply dont like the SoB models dont use them, with what Melissia describes she wants females in SM armour with SoB helmets. That can be easily acomplished. Just play some ultra smurfs and use them as "count as" sisters of battle models.

eldargal

02-26-2010, 08:35 AM

The point you are making is silly, and is based on the clearly faulty premise that you can not tweak the SoB aesthetic without turning them into generic SMs. I'm sorry but there is plenty that could be done to give SoB a more militant nun look without compromising the overall character of the army.
SoB differ from SM in size, iconography, theology, armament, purpose and theme. To simply dismiss legitimate complaints about the aesthetic of the model range with "yews da space marines duh" is ridiculously stupid.

Well, what do you get if you remove all the thing Melissia dislikes about the SoB?
First remove the heels and replace them with regular combat boots. Remove the corset and replace it with a piece of armour that doesnt have boobcups, remove the shoulder pads and replace them with marine equivalents, add the Sororitas helm and you are done. What do we have? A space marine.

If you dislike the boobcups you can file them off, if you dislike the corset you can replace it with a SM chest piece or a guard chest piece. Heels? Ive actually never noticed any on my models but I guess there are some since high heels have been mentioned a fiew times, I know it can be found in the art atleast. 2ed Cover is a GRAND example. I always thought that cover looked like **** though.

The point Im making is if you simply dont like the SoB models dont use them, with what Melissia describes she wants females in SM armour with SoB helmets. That can be easily acomplished. Just play some ultra smurfs and use them as "count as" sisters of battle models.

Madness

02-26-2010, 08:53 AM

Cup size: varies in the artwork, subject to physical limits in the sculpts, and overall I don't see how ARMORED DDs are unrealistic or objectifying, consider that the armor should be larger than the content.
Corset: it's a valid support structure that doesn't strike me as sexual.
Overall: there's a sexuality factor in everything, even in ork megagargants, I don't feel that the degree sororitas sport is either degrading or detracting from their style. They need to look badass, and they do.

MadCowCrazy

02-26-2010, 09:22 AM

rbryce

02-26-2010, 09:27 AM

to be fair mad cow, thats is silly, the pics shes shown us of armour she likes is nothing like astartes armour. and even if you just swapped the heads, smurfs'd be lame. and mel does like the shoulder plates etc.

Madness

02-26-2010, 09:31 AM

MCC please stop wandering around, Melissia suggested what she would want as the chestpiece (good grief, if manga is our new measure of what's good then...) and she has no qualms about shoulderpads either, nor leg/arms armor. She dislikes the corset (as it feels slutty, and it might end up being if you use it to create cleavage, with no cleavage it's just support, and then again "slutness" is a variable measure). Boobcups are just a tropic way to say "this is a girl" other than a skirt or a bowtie.

MadCowCrazy

02-26-2010, 09:52 AM

Fine sorry
But still, cant you just put on some greenstuff to get armour similar to the pics she posted? I mean the first 2 pics, its basically just round pieces of plate for the chest? That shouldnt be too hard to do with greenstuff?

Melissia

02-26-2010, 09:53 AM

MadCowCrazy: More importantly, why do you think that it has to have giant boobs in order to be feminine? Having mounds of flesh upon one's chest doesn't define what it means to be feminine. And I wouldn't want to get rid of the shoulders. Overdone shoulderplates are iconic to Imperial Power Armor.

Madness: It's more comfortable and indeed more healthy (less chance to damage chest ligaments for example) to have them compresed during physical acticvity. That's why sports bras were developed. Even ignoring realism, though, I think having a single plate with an outward curve in the middle would look better, similar to Titania's outfit.

Madness

02-26-2010, 09:58 AM

Did you try to sculpt such a thing? Adding that kind of shape to a miniature shouldn't be too hard.

Boobs are tropic for feminility.

Melissia

02-26-2010, 09:59 AM

You're right, it shouldn't. But I'm no sculpter, indeed about the only kind of art that I can do is line art (or rather, pencil art I can convert to line art).

rbryce

02-26-2010, 10:06 AM

i have a spare sister lyin about, so i may try that conversion out, a breastplate like your earlier pic? it doesnt have a garter either, so thats not a prob. any other changes to suggest/images to draw influence on this guys? might as well see what we can come up with. its probably the best idea.

Melissia

02-26-2010, 10:09 AM

It would be nice to see the belly look like segmented plate rather than a corset. And that would really be all the change I'd think is needed, add some Sister iconography and details and it'd have lots of potential (indeed, more potential to have iconography than the current armor).

Madness

02-26-2010, 10:13 AM

We're delving into hard sci-fi.
:(
I hate hard sci-fi.

Melissia

02-26-2010, 10:20 AM

This isn't hard sci-fi. I'm asking someone to design chest armor based off of a gothic-style breastplate. And if you think of it, the Sisters' power armor is actually LESS "hard sci-fi" than the Astartes one. Comparibly speaking, Sisters' armor can actually be seen as more sophisticated because it's remarkably smaller (Sisters would likely be, on average, 5'6", while Astartes are over eight feet IIRC) and thinner (the limbs look thinner and more feminine than the Astartes limbs to me) than that the Astartes wear and yet still provides enough of a boost that Sisters are able to carry heavy weapons and fire them from the hip with the same accuracy of a Tactical Marine, and have the same protection as Astartes power armor as well. The helmet, especially, is likely more advanced than most Marine helmets, having most of the same features and the same protection but being smaller in size.

rbryce

02-26-2010, 10:25 AM

that seems ok. not sure if i can GS iconography yet, but ill give it a go. itd probably be easiest to do on a seraphim, as the pose is open without the chaplet on the torso, as it hangs from the waist. itll prolly be ready for next week, if i can find my GS, the week after if not. in regards to iconograpy again, what sorta thing? itd be odd to have the chaplet twice(not to mention out of fluff), so fleurs then? id prefer to paint them on, but ill see how it goes.

Melissia

02-26-2010, 10:26 AM

The fleur is definitely the primary icon of the Sisters of Battle.

Madness

02-26-2010, 10:29 AM

Fleur de Lys and the I of the Ministrorum (which most people mistake for the inquisition's).

Melissia

02-26-2010, 10:32 AM

Right, but that's already hanging from their belt, so having it on their chest may be overdoing it. Quite different from one shoulder having a fleur and then having it on the chest, at least they are at different angles (The fleur visible from above, the chest from the front).

rbryce

02-26-2010, 10:32 AM

madness, this isnt delving into hard sci-fi, its seeing what on the other side of the hill.clearly their are differing opinions on what it should be(personally i like em how they are), but at the end of the day, its not gonna kill us to see whats we can do ourselves if we want to, or how it [I]could[I] be. its just a model, not re-writing history.

rbryce

02-26-2010, 10:33 AM

stop posting as i type dammit :) lol

in the fluff, the chaplet is described as something you only have one of, but fleurs can be anywhere, they have tattoos, electoos, ritual scarification etc. i guess the chaplet is like a focus for prayer, kinda like the eastern europen icons(from russia etc. a painted/gilded image of a saint/mary/jesus etc for prayer in the home), where as the fleur is more of a military symbol i guess.

Madness

02-26-2010, 11:01 AM

TBH I welcome variety in armor styles, even tho I do like the current concept, furthermore I hope they get the chance to refine it.

eldargal

03-21-2010, 03:04 AM

Ok this is not, strictly speaking, a new rumour but I thought it bore reiterating:

Originally Posted by Azzy
I'm not sure where you're getting that, especially when everyone reliable from Jervis Johnson down has said that Grey Knights & the Sisters of Battle would not be combined.
To which the renowned Harry replied:

This is my understanding.
They certainly started out as separate projects.
I can't see why they would have combined them half way through.

So SoB still slated as a seperate project as of today, 21/03. According to the rumour mill.:)

rbryce

03-21-2010, 05:13 AM

Melissia

03-21-2010, 07:36 AM

Mm, that confirms at least a little of what has already been said-- the two projects will not be combined.

I really want to see more rumors... hopefully they won't be lax on the GK rumours in the upcoming months... I might even be convinced to buy some if they're released in plastic and have a decent army at ~750-1000 unlike right now....

DarkLink

03-21-2010, 05:16 PM

yip, dont know how many have been keeping an eye on madcowcrazys thread over on heresy, but there is a lot more info been included in the last week or so, including a far out theory that gk are next, though this conflicts with other rumours, and seems like a bit of wishful thinking. on an update on the project, ive got the armour done now, just detailing it, im using a celestine model as the base. i did however get sidetracked and have been giving her wings too. i must say, im happy so far, and it looks pretty good, even plain.

This is what made me question the DE blog post. I've seen lots of rumors and I expect DE to be coming soon, but contrary to the post it's Grey Knights that have had a lot of very, very recent news. GW may stick with alternating between Imperium and non-Imperium armies and release DE before GK's, but I've seen a lot more rumors for GK's so far.

eldargal

03-21-2010, 06:54 PM

I'd say I have heard fairly similar levels of chatter for DE and GK, but GK seems to have a slightly more excitable fanbase than the jaded DEers so it gets passed around more. Thats just an impression though. Harry says GW is determined to do DE right and while the new model range is in production and the codex rewritten, they will still take more time to get it out if htey feel they need it. GK are a relatively simple update vs a complete revisit.

This is what made me question the DE blog post. I've seen lots of rumors and I expect DE to be coming soon, but contrary to the post it's Grey Knights that have had a lot of very, very recent news. GW may stick with alternating between Imperium and non-Imperium armies and release DE before GK's, but I've seen a lot more rumors for GK's so far.

Melissia

03-21-2010, 07:24 PM

GK also need their rules re-written and a ton of new units in order to have a proper fifth edition codex.

DarkLink

03-21-2010, 09:09 PM

GK are a relatively simple update vs a complete revisit.

Quite to the contrary. DE need a whole new line of models, but the rules themselves simply need a little expansion and to be brought in to line with 5th ed.

The Grey Knights, on the other hand, need to have a whole slew of new units and options. They don't just need to be brought in line, but to have a massive expansion of rules and fluff. They currently have Terminators, Power Armor GK's, Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders. Not a whole lot of units to make up a codex. They can do it, but I think it's actually more work to expand the GK's rules than the DE's.

eldargal

03-21-2010, 10:38 PM

I don't just mean rules though. Sure GK need a lot of work, but DE have been neglected for what, thirteen years? There is a very loyal but jaded fan base there, not to mention all the derision over the years over DEs rubbish model range and whatnot. What I'm trying to say is that if they announce a new GK codex people will just go "Yay" in general, whereas when they announce DE there is going to be over decades worth of disbelief, anger and criticism built up. From GW perspective better to keep a lid on things until they are sure they are onto something good. I'm probably not expressing myself very succintly, its 4:30am.:rolleyes:

rbryce

03-22-2010, 02:48 AM

preaching to the "group of pre-pubescent males in a large church run singing group"(sorry, brain-fart, cant remember how to spell the damn word) here. our codices arent much younger. personally i cant wait for the mass-release of outdated-no-longer dexs, even though i dont collect any of them other than sisters, itll be a breath of fresh air. i do think sisters/grey knights have something special coming, what with being left out of expansions etc. maybe a major reorganisation of inquisition is at hand.

Rusty Nail

03-22-2010, 04:21 AM

rbryce

03-22-2010, 04:40 AM

thats the one, couldnt think of it earlier, for some reason i thought it began with a Q, must be pre-tea mind fuzz.

Melissia

03-22-2010, 06:29 AM

I don't care about the Inquisition. Just my Sisters.

I really wish they never threw the god-aweful inquisition into my Sisters codex in the first place...

joescalise

03-22-2010, 07:11 AM

I hope a new joint book comes out, FORCES OF THE IMPERIUM. that would rock. I love playing this army, I always take sisters and DH. great army

eldargal

03-22-2010, 07:13 AM

Ditto, if its another poor combined codex I'm not going to bother with a SoB army.

I don't care about the Inquisition. Just my Sisters.

I really wish they never threw the god-aweful inquisition into my Sisters codex in the first place...

rbryce

03-22-2010, 07:30 AM

same here, i think theyll be dropped, which is why we havent seen the current codexs represented in recent publications, as they probably want a "ta-da" moment.

Sister Rosette Soulknyt

03-22-2010, 08:03 AM

Agreed, just put Inquisition in with Gk and have combined Ordo's from al three Inquisitor option with them, and Storm Troopers, give GK's more options.
Basically just like they did with the current SoB in the WH codex, just replace SoB with GK's.

Then leave SoB and just increase them in size, options and rules and make them a Ecclesiarchy Codex, adding more units, rules and Arbites etc etc

DarkLink

03-22-2010, 09:28 AM

same here, i think theyll be dropped, which is why we havent seen the current codexs represented in recent publications, as they probably want a "ta-da" moment.

Have you been paying attention to the massive slew of rumors from traditionally highly reliable sources that indicate that not only will the current Inquisition codices be updated, but they will do so in the immediate future? Heck, in the last few weeks alone I've seen a half dozen threads on various forums where individuals emailed or called GW asking if the Inquisition would be updated, and in every single one GW employees explicitly stated that the current model lines and codices have been removed because they will be replaced soon, though they can't give any more details than that. And not to mention that for literally years and years, people like Jervis Johnson have openly and explicitly stated that it was only a matter of time until they got around to updating the Inquisition codices.

Thinking that GW is going to drop the Inquisition is literally flying directly in the face of everything that we've heard in the last year or so. And we've heard a lot.

Melissia

03-22-2010, 09:40 AM

I hope a new joint book comes out, FORCES OF THE IMPERIUM. that would rock. I love playing this army, I always take sisters and DH. great army

And I wish for a GOOD codex instead!

rbryce

03-22-2010, 09:54 AM

DarkLink

03-22-2010, 02:40 PM

i know theyre being updated, and there are lots of rumours about it. i wasnt contending that. i just dont think the inquisition will be with sisters anymore. as to rumours, weve had combined into 1 dex(all ordos/just hereticus+malleus), as they are now, 2 dexs without any inquisition, 3 dexs with SoB+GK+inquisition seperate, and many more. the confusion may be because i was replying to a post highr up, and others had posted in the time i wrote what i did. seriously, i have about 6 tabs up in firefox at the moment on different rumour threads for this, and i check them quite often

Oh, yeah, my bad. I check the rumors threads on some of the other forums and see people who utterly deny that the Inquisition will ever be updated and that utterly confuses me.

But otherwise, yeah, 1 Inquisition, 1 Grey Knights and 1 Sisters of battle.

Spoonfunk

03-22-2010, 03:33 PM

They should put them all in one codex if anything else just to make it easier on all of us who don't play one of those factions.

The_Ancient

03-22-2010, 04:26 PM

Hello all I have lurked for a while on this forum only now have i felt the need to post.

My personal choice on this highly contentious of subjects:

- 1. A fleshed out GK dex with maybe a few ordo malleus inquisitors thrown in as SC

- 2. An ecclesiarchy book, mainly sisters with some other ecclesiastical units (frateris millitia,confessors etc) again hereticus inq as SC

and prehaps most contraversially and least likely to actually happen :(

-3. An agents of the Imperium book. This would be that most dreaded of all ideas a non stand alone book of allies, containing all those characterful 40K people that do not have/need full armies. The idea would be they can be used in either imperial or chaos forces maybe with slightly different wargear options or something??(imperial in bold)
e.g
- Inquisitors (puritan/ radical)
- Assassins
- mechanicus/ dark mechanicus
- arbites/mutants
- PDF/LAtD
- rogue traders/Arch heretic

I think this would be a great addition to the game, not just for spicing up your army list but as a fluff companion which would provide characterful units to use in campaigns if not regular play.

DarkLink

03-22-2010, 04:51 PM

and prehaps most contraversially and least likely to actually happen :(

-3. An agents of the Imperium book. This would be that most dreaded of all ideas a non stand alone book of allies, containing all those characterful 40K people that do not have/need full armies. The idea would be they can be used in either imperial or chaos forces maybe with slightly different wargear options or something??(imperial in bold)
e.g
- Inquisitors (puritan/ radical)
- Assassins
- mechanicus/ dark mechanicus
- arbites/mutants
- PDF/LAtD
- rogue traders/Arch heretic

I think this would be a great addition to the game, not just for spicing up your army list but as a fluff companion which would provide characterful units to use in campaigns if not regular play.

Well, they have to put something in the Inquisition book. We know there will be one, but what they will add is unknown. As it stands, the Inquisition itself doesn't really have much of a place on the battlefield. Since GW's removing the ordos militants from the combined Inquisition book, something will have to be added to make it a valid codex. Otherwise they should just drop the Inquisition from 40k and leave it to their other games and books.

The real problem is, RPGs like Dark Heresy is really where Inquisition stuff belongs. All that characterful stuff can't really be handled well in a tabletop wargame, whereas all the stuff that makes the Inquisition so popular is perfect for RPGs.

Frankly, I think the Grey Knights and Sisters codices will do very well if they get decent rules and plastic models. I can't see an Inquisition codex doing any better than the current DH and WH books, though. It's too much of a circus freakshow assembly. Sure, some people like that. But history has shown that it doesn't really sell well on the tabletop.

Melissia

03-22-2010, 05:29 PM

They should put them all in one codex if anything else just to make it easier on all of us who don't play one of those factions.

You mean just like they should stuff all xeno factions into one codex for those who never play xenos? Or all Marine factions into one codex for those of us who prefer to play interesting armies? :P

DarkLink

03-22-2010, 07:20 PM

Or put them all into one codex so that everyone only has to buy one book instead of three, saving customers money at GW's expense... oh, wait a second... :p

therealjohnny5

03-22-2010, 11:14 PM

Or put them all into one codex so that everyone only has to buy one book instead of three, saving customers money at GW's expense... oh, wait a second... :p
now you're just talking nonsense...pfffisssh....saving money and GW in one sentence...ha!

Vhalyar

03-23-2010, 03:27 AM

Or put them all into one codex so that everyone only has to buy one book instead of three, saving customers money at GW's expense... oh, wait a second... :p

I'd really prefer separate codices so that each army can be fleshed out properly. Here's how I see it:

1) You can only have so many unit choices in a codex
2) If you've got three types of armies in one book you cut down on the options each can have in the different slots
3) Unit are balanced against each other, leading to "SoB troops better, GK Elites more powerful, Inq HQ overshadow the rest..."
4) If the codices are split, more slots are open to be filled with units and so each army can be better defined and developed.
5) Not everyone cares about both, say, GK and SoB, which leads back to points 2, 3 and 4.

That way, instead of going "GKs have problems with anti-vehicle. That's alright, in the codex SoB have it covered" it can be"GKs have their own (new) way of dealing with vehicles that's different from the (new) way SoB do".

Hope this made sense :D

andrewm9

03-23-2010, 08:09 AM

Or put them all into one codex so that everyone only has to buy one book instead of three, saving customers money at GW's expense... oh, wait a second... :p

To be honest, if they did that it woudl not be one large codex like space marines. They would jam all of the units in and make them suck so that you woudl need to field Grey Knights with Sisters to be even worthy of having a decently competitive army. That would be how they did daemons and I for didn't like that. I wanted a mono-god army of Slaanesh and I can tell you that it does not perform as well as I would like it. Its also not very multi-faceted. A single codex for all of the Inquisition woudl be much the same.

Of course thats my opinion and you are free to disagree with me. Ultimately it would be a great disservice to players of both factions. My pure army of Sisters just wouldn't be playable. Now if were done rigth where each Ordo had its own list and combined into one book with each being worthy in its own right, that woudl be soemthing, but as its GW it be like 50$ and thats not really a savings now is it?

Melissia

03-23-2010, 08:15 AM

Psst, he was being sarcastic...

Melissia

03-25-2010, 11:55 AM

HsojVvad

03-25-2010, 07:45 PM

[Grain of Salt]

I've heard several people, both on the net and in stores, saying they're expecting a GK godex sometime on or after October. The terminator models are near completion and supposedly look pretty awesome. Also, it's a GK dex, not a combined dex, as it does not include Sisters.

[/Grain of Salt]

Do you know if this is after the Blood Angles release or after a non SM release? By that I mean, since BA is being released, is there another 40K release or will the GK be the next 40K release. Just curious to what you herd.

Force21

03-25-2010, 08:01 PM

[Grain of Salt]

I've heard several people, both on the net and in stores, saying they're expecting a GK godex sometime on or after October. The terminator models are near completion and supposedly look pretty awesome. Also, it's a GK dex, not a combined dex, as it does not include Sisters.

[/Grain of Salt]

Awesome now the $55.00 Metal Grey Knight Terminators are now going to be a less expensive (for GW) Plastic for $60+ :D

oh wait...:confused:

lol.

I don't care I know I am going to love em :)

Sister Rosette Soulknyt

03-25-2010, 10:37 PM

Oh goody lots more psycannons.....if only i hadnt sold all the GK's i owned. Oh well i like a pure SoB force anyway.

Though i cant wait to see what they will do with a codex GK, would be interested in seeing, painting and maybe re-collecting a few if there to my liking.

rbryce

03-26-2010, 12:29 AM

GK are one of those armies i said id collect if they ever became plastic(2 metal armies is too much on my gaming budget), and rumours point to my birthday! yay october, wait, im gonna be 25 this year. i guess there is always a downside lol

ChaosPhoenix

03-26-2010, 03:05 AM

eldargal

03-26-2010, 06:41 AM

Bols is relatively free of morons but a few still slip through.:rolleyes:
I'm going to elaborate slightly and then not get involved any further because it really distracts from the umours part. First of all, the people who talk about sexism and feminism are the boys. Complaining about exaggerated cup sizes is not bringing up feminism or sexism. Its a complaint about an aesthetic. And somehow I doubt you would be so blase about it if if it were Space Marines going around bludgeoning their enemies to death with twelve inch long prehenile phalluses*. As to femininity, the discussion is about an over-abundance of stereotypical feminiity rather than how to maintain it in the 41st milennium. Finally, the reason Vulkan and Canis do not get 40 page long threads is because they are dull action hereo type characters with the intellectual depth of stewed cabbage.

I think this thread is the proof, why there aren't many female characters. Male characters like Vulkan or Canis get a lot of discussion about the pose, the sculp or what ever. SoB get a 40 page long discussion about sexism, they cup size and how you keep your femininity in a grim dark future where can be only war.

*I sense a Golden Demon winning diorama coming on.

HsojVvad

03-26-2010, 07:02 AM

Awesome now the $55.00 Metal Grey Knight Terminators are now going to be a less expensive (for GW) Plastic for $60+ :D

oh wait...:confused:

lol.

I don't care I know I am going to love em :)

Yeah that is what I am afraid of. $55 for metal, $50 for plastic. Oh well, if they are that expensive for plastic, I guess I will not be getting a GK force that I have been waiting all these years to start.

It was too expensive back then, I guess it will be too expensvie this time as well. I can't see pepole dishing out all this money if they didn't do it for metal, whey would they do it for plastic?

Time will tell.

Melissia

03-26-2010, 07:33 AM

Finally, the reason Vulkan and Canis do not get 40 page long threads is because they are dull action hereo type characters with the intellectual depth of stewed cabbage.
This is true, but you could have simply said "Space Marines" instead of saying "Vulkan and Canis".

Inflammatory remarks aside, there aren't many female characters because GW's products are made by white males for white males. They don't even have a single female writer in Black Library (the closest they have is an assistant writer, whom assists her husband); one can hardly blame the writers for focusing on what they know, people tend to have an easier time writing their own gender, race, religion similar to their own, and so on and so forth.

And let's not get into Blanche's horrible, hideous artwork again (at least regarding anything female). At least he's not as bad as Rob Liefeld though.

Kettu

03-26-2010, 11:18 AM

I think this thread is the proof, why there aren't many female characters. Male characters like Vulkan or Canis get a lot of discussion about the pose, the sculp or what ever. SoB get a 40 page long discussion about sexism, they cup size and how you keep your femininity in a grim dark future where can be only war.

I thought it was to do with the fact that there is only one female character and the sculptor couldn't even remember the wings.
I mean, it's hard to have an exciting discussion on the oldest minis in game. We kinda said everything there was to say a decade ago. So gender politics, here we come.

DarkLink

03-26-2010, 01:07 PM

Do you know if this is after the Blood Angles release or after a non SM release? By that I mean, since BA is being released, is there another 40K release or will the GK be the next 40K release. Just curious to what you herd.

We're not sure, but the GK are looking to be the next Imperium codex. Now, DE might come next, or GK might come next, but it's looking like it will be one of the two.

They'll probably be followed up with Necrons, and then possibly Sisters of Battle after that.

Of course, however, this is all outside the 3-4 month range within which we can be fairly certain about what's coming next.

Melissia

03-26-2010, 01:25 PM

Basically:

Blood Angels are next. That much we're sure.
Then Dark Eldar, Necrons, or Grey Knights fill the next two or three slots.

Rift Knight

03-26-2010, 01:46 PM

And let's not get into Blanche's horrible, hideous artwork again (at least regarding anything female). At least he's not as bad as Rob Liefeld though.[/QUOTE]

I always thought I was the only one who didn't care for Blanche's style of art.

DarkLink

03-26-2010, 04:06 PM

And let's not get into Blanche's horrible, hideous artwork again (at least regarding anything female). At least he's not as bad as Rob Liefeld though.

I always thought I was the only one who didn't care for Blanche's style of art.[/QUOTE]

Count me against it, too.

Subject Keyword

03-26-2010, 06:02 PM

I still don't understand why everybody complains/complains about people complaining about the supposed lack of females in 40k.
Assuming that female characters would have to be feminine is assuming that female = feminine. There is not, by any far stretch of the imagination, a deficit of females in 40K, just of deficit of femininity.

And femininity isn't exactly an effective tactic in war.
It doesn't have a place in wargaming, any more than masculinity has a place in braiding your little sister's hair.
We all have Yin and Yang in us. The difference is what we express at a given moment.

War is Yang.
Femininity does not belong in it. Females do.

The Tyranids and Orks are both gender neutral.
The Tau have no indication that females cannot fight, a decidedly female HQ (who would have had to rise up the ranks somehow), and they do not have particularity different physiology between the genders, so the models represent both.
Female Necrontyr were turned into Necrons.
Both Eldar armies have male and female soldiers and models to represent them.
There are (a few) female Imperial Guard models, and indication in the fluff that some IG armies enlist women.
Deamons are gender neutral, and some of them are represented with female forms.
One of the two Inquisition armies is predominately female.

So what we're really talking about here is Space Marines, and part of the POINT of Space Marines is that they are male. Taking "being male" away from Space Marines would be like taking BDS&M away from the Dark Eldar. It's a central part of the mythology of the Space Marine.

I'm perfectly capable of feeling feminine. I can take care of a child or sew a dress and that satisfies that part of me. If I want to f*ck some sh*t up I spar with someone or Wargame or turn on my XBox.

Warhammer itself is a very Yin & Yang sort of hobby. When you paint you are passive, being gentle and delicate with your models. When you game you are active, trying to brutalize your opponent using aggressive tactics. It has NOTHING to f*cking do with being male or female.

Are women capable of kicking *ss? Of course! Are they capable of kicking *ss and being beautiful at the same time, Laura Croft style? HELL NO. Flak jackets are not particularity becoming, and the long hair would get in the way. In a war she'd cut that sh*t off.

Faultie

03-26-2010, 06:24 PM

Oh crap, the FSM* issue again!

*(no, not Flying Spaghetti Monster)

Subject Keyword

03-26-2010, 06:47 PM

Oh crap, the FSM* issue again!

*(no, not Flying Spaghetti Monster)

Maybe a good way to put this whole Female Space Marines bullcrap to rest is to say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster ate all the Female Space Marines because they stole its abbreviation, and because they are contradictory and stupid.

Pastafarianism PWNs stupid reactionary faux-feminism.

:D

eldargal

03-26-2010, 07:16 PM

Mostly good points, but actually we aren't talking about SM, we are talking about SoB. The complaints about them which in the minds of certain idiot boys are equated to feminism and sexism is that many of the models have too much of a dominatrix/BDSM vibe which is not particularly compatible with the nuns-in-space theme. Nothing to do with feminism and sexism, and only related to femininity in the sense that there is TOO MUCH femininity to be credible in a fighting force. The models need to be clearly female (females are a different shape, I'm surprised more gamers haven't noticed. Wait, no I'm not), but they don't need to have enormous cups, and I say this as a DD myself.

The FSM thing is a whole other issue which has been debated elsewhere and does not belong in this thread. I do disagree with the point that SMs are purely a male thing, I think they are an emblem of the ultimate warrior, sexless, dedicated and formidable. Not distracted by the desires of flesh (except the Dark Angels, apparently).

I will add that most female soldiers I know actually wear their hair in a ponytail or bun rather than cut it short, but the point stands.

Minor quibble, SoB aren't an inquisitorial army, they are a seperate force that works with the Inquisition.

I still don't understand why everybody complains/complains about people complaining about the supposed lack of females in 40k.
Assuming that female characters would have to be feminine is assuming that female = feminine. There is not, by any far stretch of the imagination, a deficit of females in 40K, just of deficit of femininity.

And femininity isn't exactly an effective tactic in war.
It doesn't have a place in wargaming, any more than masculinity has a place in braiding your little sister's hair.
We all have Yin and Yang in us. The difference is what we express at a given moment.

War is Yang.
Femininity does not belong in it. Females do.

The Tyranids and Orks are both gender neutral.
The Tau have no indication that females cannot fight, a decidedly female HQ (who would have had to rise up the ranks somehow), and they do not have particularity different physiology between the genders, so the models represent both.
Female Necrontyr were turned into Necrons.
Both Eldar armies have male and female soldiers and models to represent them.
There are (a few) female Imperial Guard models, and indication in the fluff that some IG armies enlist women.
Deamons are gender neutral, and some of them are represented with female forms.
One of the two Inquisition armies is predominately female.

So what we're really talking about here is Space Marines, and part of the POINT of Space Marines is that they are male. Taking "being male" away from Space Marines would be like taking BDS&M away from the Dark Eldar. It's a central part of the mythology of the Space Marine.

I'm perfectly capable of feeling feminine. I can take care of a child or sew a dress and that satisfies that part of me. If I want to f*ck some sh*t up I spar with someone or Wargame or turn on my XBox.

Warhammer itself is a very Yin & Yang sort of hobby. When you paint you are passive, being gentle and delicate with your models. When you game you are active, trying to brutalize your opponent using aggressive tactics. It has NOTHING to f*cking do with being male or female.

Are women capable of kicking *ss? Of course! Are they capable of kicking *ss and being beautiful at the same time, Laura Croft style? HELL NO. Flak jackets are not particularity becoming, and the long hair would get in the way. In a war she'd cut that sh*t off.

Melissia

03-26-2010, 09:20 PM

Subject Keyword: No. No female space marine discussion in this thread. Shutup and go away if you're going to turn it into yet another locked FSM thread.

Duke

03-26-2010, 11:48 PM

Commissar Lewis

03-26-2010, 11:49 PM

*stumbles in*

Well I wandered in at a bad time. Shoulda kept farming Crawmerax... Oh damn, he'd make a damn awesome model...

Vhalyar

03-27-2010, 07:03 AM

Wow I came into this thread at the wrong point... Let's see if we can get this thread back on topic.

Has anyone actually seen/ heard actual evidence of the new book? On warseer they seem to think Phil Kelly will write the new book

duke

Sure! Have a look here (http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55212) and then read the last 2-3 pages, plenty of new tidbits there. Amazing what people can find when the topic doesn't veer off-course even two pages :p

Basically, current rumors say that the new two armies will be Grey Knights and Dark Eldar, with strong possibilities of either coming out first.

MadCowCrazy

03-27-2010, 04:58 PM

Was just looking over some vids from Adepticon 2010 and saw this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGydUJSn448

Shawn asks if the girls name is Mel and I instantly thought of Melissia on this forum. So instead of starting a new thread just to ask or send a pm because maby someone else is wondering as well Im just gonna ask if that was you in the vid?

Been looking through vids all day and there really isnt much Daemonhunter and Witchhunter presence at Adepticon this year from what I can tell. All Ive seen is a vid from a painting booth and they had some models in their glass display case, a Penitent Engine amongst other things.

So has anyone gone to Adepticon? Its still on tomorrow afaik, could you walk around and ask the retailers for rumours on what they think will be the next codex? Maby some retailer has heard something?

Melissia

03-27-2010, 06:40 PM

No, I didn't go.

Subject Keyword

03-27-2010, 09:54 PM

Subject Keyword: No. No female space marine discussion in this thread. Shutup and go away if you're going to turn it into yet another locked FSM thread.

I wasn't. I was not the one who brought up the damned things. I was merely commenting on the "femininity and where it belongs in SoB/Warahammer mythos" topic that someone else started.
Now quit being so aggressive or you're going to get my lesbian hormones all riled up.

I'm serious.

MadCowCrazy

03-28-2010, 04:19 AM

Now quit being so aggressive or you're going to get my lesbian hormones all riled up.

I'm serious.

Sigh, come on. You cant say that, its not fair against us guys. We will of course want you to get all lesbian and riled up...

Back on topic, from what Ive been hearing the next few codicies should be GK, DE, Necron and then either BT or SoB. So we might see some new sisters sometime next summer. This is just guesswork though but rumours seems to think its going to look something like this.

Renegade

03-28-2010, 05:28 AM

It seems to go round and round with the codex writers. So if Matt did the last one Phil does the next the one after is..... I hope he doesn't get to do my codex! Let the SoB have the newest Doom unit that causes web wide arguments! ;)

ashnaile

03-28-2010, 07:55 AM

Meh, i hope this codex either never comes out, or leaves the rules for inducting alone ... gonna be royally pissed without mystics in my ig army

:( the entire list would have to change because id actually have to deal with cheating drop melta x.x lol.

rbryce

03-28-2010, 08:08 AM

^^^heaven forbid guard would lose effectivly 1-2 units, while another gains in power, it must mean the end of the world! lol;)

Melissia

03-28-2010, 08:29 AM

I wasn't. I was not the one who brought up the damned things. I was merely commenting on the "femininity and where it belongs in SoB/Warahammer mythos" topic that someone else started.

No, you ranted about some irrelevant crap involving female space marines for half of your post so shutup, SHUTUP, SHUTUP about it before someone decides to take you seriously and start that debate over again (seriously, nobody really wants another one of THOSE threads). The entire logical train (wreck) of thought your post used led up to your nonsensical mention of female space marines and how they aren't fluffy. Don't BS about it, I'm not buying your excuses.

Let me be simply blunt. I don't consider Space Marines to be key or core or important or iconic or the main characters of 40k. You may disagree with me. I don't care. To me, the time of the Space Marines was the Horus Heresy, and ever since then they have become gradually weaker and weaker and more and more irrelevant as the Imperium developed, to the point where now most of the time most people, Imperial or not, have never seen a Space Marine; they are nothing more than legend talked about by the Ecclesiarchy during mass, and even then only barely-- the focus of it of course is on the Emperor and the Imperial saints (only one of which is a Space Marine IIRC, Sanguinius). The overwhelming vast majority of battles the Imperium have absolutely nothing to do with the Space Marines at all, either loyalists or traitors. For that matter, the overwhelming majority of the servants of chaos-- something along the lines of 99.99999 (and drag those nines out a few thousand places) percent-- are not traitor marines. Even most Daemon Princes aren't chaos marines IIRC, in fact some of the most powerful ones existed long before the Marines were ever created. The lost and the damned are the true army of chaos, just as the Imperial Guard are the true army of the Imperium. Even the Sisters, though they do not necessarily fight that much more than Marines in comparison to the Guard, still participate in the Imperium far more, and have more political sway than the Space Marines. They even have an entire branch (the Sisters Famulous) dedicated to helping control Imperial nobility under the guise of helping them manage their households, finances, and serving as advisors.

All of this is GW's fluff, not something I made up. Yes, they might write some more stories about space marines, but that's just because they need to try and sell stuff to little brats in high school with too much of their parents' disposable income available to them and Space Marines attract that kind of immature person and opens up their wallet easier. And before someone inevitably reads too much into that statement, no I am not accusing anyone on this forum of that, but everyone knows it's true.

This thread is not about female Space Marines, the discussion of the lack of females in 40k is also not necessarily about Space Marines (even with just the Imperium in general, stories tend to have a very high male to female ratio, which doesn't make sense given that the males are supposedly drafted so much more frequently). Female Space Marines are irrelevant to this thread. Drop it, just drop it.

DarkLink

03-28-2010, 09:47 AM

Wow I came into this thread at the wrong point... Let's see if we can get this thread back on topic.

Has anyone actually seen/ heard actual evidence of the new book? On warseer they seem to think Phil Kelly will write the new book

duke

Direct evidence of anything is hard to come by until GW actually announces anything. But there are several very reliable sources that sound very, very confident about the hints that they drop. Said hints point to an end of the year release for GK's, and that Sisters and Inquisition shouldn't be too long after that, probably within the next year.

Sigh, come on. You cant say that, its not fair against us guys. We will of course want you to get all lesbian and riled up...

Back on topic, from what Ive been hearing the next few codicies should be GK, DE, Necron and then either BA or SoB. So we might see some new sisters sometime next summer. This is just guesswork though but rumours seems to think its going to look something like this.

BA are next. They've been confirmed for an April release. After BA, it appears to be GK/DE/Necrons.

MadCowCrazy

03-28-2010, 02:06 PM

I ment BT, not BA

Subject Keyword

03-28-2010, 02:17 PM

No, you ranted about some irrelevant crap involving female space marines for half of your post so shutup, SHUTUP, SHUTUP about it before someone decides to take you seriously and start that debate over again (seriously, nobody really wants another one of THOSE threads). The entire logical train (wreck) of thought your post used led up to your nonsensical mention of female space marines and how they aren't fluffy. Don't BS about it, I'm not buying your excuses.

Um... Could you quote my post where I mentioned them? I had a two or three sentence paragraph about how I thought maleness was an integral part of the Space Marine mythos (which is my opinion and nothing more), but the rest of the post was about how many females (or gender neutral... Things...) are ignored as female presences in Warhammer.

Let me be simply blunt.
As opposed to complexly blunt?

I don't consider Space Marines to be key or core or important or iconic or the main characters of 40k. You may disagree with me. I don't care.
Look, I hate Space Marines just as much as you do, but the sheer amount of material about and pertaining to them isn't something that can be so eagerly ignored. The Fellowship played a very small part in the overall mythology of Middle Earth, but they have the most words about them, the most action figures, the most games, etc. I don't consider Space Marines the "main characters" either (that whole concept doesn't really apply to Warhammer), but we cannot deny that they are "key" "core" or "iconic" just because we hate them.

Kahoolin

03-28-2010, 02:52 PM

Look, I hate Space Marines just as much as you do.You guys play Warhammer 40k and you hate space marines? That sucks for you.

Subject Keyword

03-28-2010, 04:03 PM

You guys play Warhammer 40k and you hate space marines? That sucks for you.
Well, hate is a strong word.
I think they're a bit over done, and the amount of attention that they get gets under my skin, but I guess it doesn't bug me that bad, because I still love the hobby and spend loads of money on it. Something GW is doing is working!

Slightly more on topic, I think a complete overhaul of Witch Hunters would do them good. The large breasted, dominatrix madam thing is a bit dorky, really. An all female warrior society who looked like they could actually be successful in a battle rather than in a shady club in LA would be awesome. As is, the faces of the Sisters of Battle look like men's faces with stupid, illogical ladies haircuts (that would get in their eyes and then they wouldn't see X nasty heretic sneaking up on them, etc.). An army of actual women with buzzed heads and less silly armor and more nasty piousness and fanatical devotion to the Emperor would be sweet. More Space Nun, less Space Transvestite.

On the other hand, a few more models, all plastics, and some rule tweaks would make me pick up Daemonhunters tomorrow. They are outrageously cool.

Force21

03-28-2010, 09:33 PM

Grand Master Stern!!!

That is what I want...

& well maybe cheaper & awesomer Grey Knights...etc.

Melissia

03-28-2010, 11:07 PM

*ignores Subject Keyword to avoid rage induction over some stupid crap he said, he knows what it is*

I think cheaper might not be called for... just better. A lot better.

Sister Rosette Soulknyt

03-29-2010, 02:23 AM

Firstly you Subject Keyword with what you said it seems you want to see SoB less like females in armour and more like just another SM with a female head, there armour is what makes them unique to 40k, its supposed to be smaller, lighter yet just as strong in protection, how do you envision there armour then?? Plain and just with what a Habit?? and maybe the hint of armour underneath.
I agree the heads need work and as stated in this thread and others GW just lacks talented sculptors who can make correct female faces and bodies that are properly shaped to the female form.

On the topic though i can only hope GW justifies its upgrades and pays far more attention to details, i loved the codex WH, yes it has problems but i have to say the SoB miniature range is still to me on of the better appealing armies visually. Just wish GW would hire some more female sculptors to make any new plastic SoB looks more than all the same and more posable.

eldargal

03-29-2010, 03:04 AM

Someone over at Warseer says he thinks he saw some WIP GK knights, including a land raider variant of some sort. Or a land raider custom kit.

The last boy who made a rape joke around me (directed at me, in fact) I lifted off his feet by his scrotum, sadly the nature of the internet prevents recourse to such wholesome punishments.

Melissia

03-29-2010, 09:27 AM

Someone on the IGMB said they heard the GK Terminators were near completion.

DarkLink

03-29-2010, 12:41 PM

i think cheaper might not be called for... Just better. A lot better.

qft

Necrosis

03-29-2010, 01:03 PM

I predict after all the fantasy stuff during summer it will then go like this: Dark Eldar, Grey Knights/Daemon Hunters, Necrons, Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters. This is just me guessing but gw seems to be release xeno, non-xeno, xeno, non-xeno... etc.

Subject Keyword

03-29-2010, 06:40 PM

*ignores Subject Keyword to avoid rage induction over some stupid crap he said, he knows what it is*

Now your comment to Melissia at the end of your post is disgusting, rude and sexist and bordering sexual discrimintaion. Your comment of: "Look, honey...
One day I'll teach you what actual feminism is, and how it relates to the world around us and the stories we tell around the campfires and hobby shops. I could teach you some other things as well, but that's considered statutory rape in most places."
I think you owe Melissia and many other females on this post a very BIG aplogy for this, to hear you state this and refer things that hint to sex and rape you should be banned from this forum for life.
How dare you justify yourself that you would know more about feminism than a woman, even if you were one yourself.

The last boy who made a rape joke around me (directed at me, in fact) I lifted off his feet by his scrotum, sadly the nature of the internet prevents recourse to such wholesome punishments.

Ok, well, first off I am very sorry. I have a colorful sense of humor and out of context (on places like the internet) it can be misunderstood. Second of all, I am not a "boy" or a "he." I am an insane lesbian. My comment towards Melissia was half unnecessarily antagonistic, half my desire to turn everyone around me to the dark side. Perhaps something like "I could show you what you've been missing with men all these years" would have been more direct and less creepy. Rape is not funny to me, and some very personal experiences in my life that I will not go into have kept it not funny. And Sister Rosette Soulknyt, I "justify" that I know more about feminism because I am very close to a bachelors degree in it. Maybe my classes have got me a bit frustrated...
Again I'm sorry about not being more clear, going a bit too far with a joke, or being hurtful in any way. I know what it's like to be the target of people bullsh*tting, what with all the "all you need is a nice man to blah blah blah" flying around. I seem to get accidentally get other women angry a lot. Does this mean I'm an ineffective lesbian?

Oh, and Eldargal, if lifting me off the ground by my scrotum would make you feel better and make your feelings less hurt, I would be happy to let you get some revenge. Sadly, I do not have a scrotum, so you'd have to get creative.
-Keyword:(

Vhalyar

03-29-2010, 09:36 PM

Fascinating, really.

Back to what this thread is supposed to be. Melissia, when you say that someone heard about GK Termies being nearly finished, did you mean deton8r? Because the way he worded things it sounded more like his own summary of information already known rather than new :(

Someone on the IGMB said they heard the GK Terminators were near completion.

Force21

03-29-2010, 09:43 PM

Yeah I heard on the forum earlier that Grey Knight Terminators were done or something...

anyway I hope the Terminators are cheaper now......points wise...but probably not money :(

same thing with just Grey Knights... they are a little to much points for what they do now...

& I hope they can get more special/heavy weapons now... just the Psycannon & Incinerator does not give them a lot to deal with heaver tanks.

Vhalyar

03-29-2010, 09:47 PM

Standard GK are fine at their current point cost, they just need to have stats that reflect it. Justicars on the other hand should be dropped to around 35, the current cost is ridiculously overkill.

I hope that GW will preserve the feel of being outnumbered when playing Grey Knights. Considering what Phil Kelly did with the Space Wolves, that is to allow them to field an army of elite units, I'm rather confident that he won't drop the ball with the Grey Knights. If Stormtroopers are kept - and I sure hope so - then that's where the support backbone and objective-takers should be found.

Sister Rosette Soulknyt

03-29-2010, 09:55 PM

Well i hope for new termies too, and not just another rumour, i hope for everyone that its true and we all see them very soon, and then with news of SoB to follow.....or is that really wishful thinking to soon lol.

Subject Keyword, thanks for your apologies, i think you did go a little to far. Making comments like those not only hurts yourself but also this Forum, i find it harsh and iinnapropriate in any sense and if Eldargal says she can pick you up i'd believe her, even if you didnt have that anatomy :P

Anyway, can only hope in the coming White Dwarfs GW decide to let us hear about the future for this year, show new miniatures hidden amoungst the pages, i know April is BA April, so guess little chance of any other news.

Azrael71

03-29-2010, 10:26 PM

Even though i am a SM player. My first army was Sob with Tallarns and i hope the WH/DH codex does come as i believe GW will sell a lot of them with the right marketing strategy.

If they do i'm all for it.

Azrael 71

Subject Keyword

03-29-2010, 10:40 PM

if Eldargal says she can pick you up i'd believe her, even if you didnt have that anatomy :P

*shudder*

Seriously though,

sorry.

DarkLink

03-29-2010, 11:49 PM

Standard GK are fine at their current point cost, they just need to have stats that reflect it. Justicars on the other hand should be dropped to around 35, the current cost is ridiculously overkill.

Funny thing is, Justicars cost the standard amount for a sergeant plus a power weapon. +10pts for an extra attack and leadership, and +15pts for a power weapon.

Heck, a SM sergeant with a power fist costs 51pts, and a Justicar is better.

Basic Grey Knights need some special rules that live up to the points that you pay for them, but the Justicar upgrade probably won't change price.

Manowar

03-30-2010, 10:23 AM

Gnoblar with Pointy Stick

03-30-2010, 05:22 PM

It will be really sad if the Inquisition gets removed from 40,000.
It doesn't seem likely, but I suppose GW has just as much right to destroy an army as they do to create one.:(

Melissia

03-30-2010, 05:37 PM

The Inquisition won't be removed from 40k. It is very deeply entrenched in the fluff, and is the basis for just about every single roleplaying game based off of 40k, for example. What they might do is remove the Inquisition as an army from 40k. Which is fine by me, they shouldn't have put the friggin' Inquisition into my Sisters of Battle codex anyway.

DarkLink

03-30-2010, 06:40 PM

Add in the fact he has a storm bolter, is Fearless, can't be pinned, has in-built psychic wards and benefits from the Shrouding, the Justicar actually seems like a real bargoon. Only problem is he dies just as easy as a normal Marine.

Bargain, not bargoon:p.

Regardless, Justicars are well priced, as are GK Terminators. Basic Grey Knights, however, are far too expensive. As the rules currently stand, GKs should be 21, maybe 22pts each (making a Justicar 46-47pts).

However, the Grey Knights are the most powerful Space Marines in existence, including Chaos Space Marines (but excluding special characters). Basic Grey Knights should be the most expensive Marines in the game. But they should have the rules to match.

Dragonstriker

03-31-2010, 06:00 AM

Gnoblar with Pointy Stick

03-31-2010, 08:50 AM

What they might do is remove the Inquisition as an army from 40k. .
Oh, yeah, that's what I meant. Removing the inquisition from the fluff would be like ripping out someone's liver and then asking them to pretend it was never there.

Bargain, not bargoon:p.
I don't know. I kind of like the word bargoon. It's like a pirate discount.

Melissia

03-31-2010, 09:27 AM

I don't really care what happens to them as long as they're removed from my Sisters dex.

The_Ancient

03-31-2010, 11:22 AM

Woah whats with all the Blanche hating? I love his style it maybe a little rough around the edges but i think it really encapsulates the feel of 40k all the weirdness et al.
Other artists may have a crisper, clearer style but none have blanches imagination.

Melissia

03-31-2010, 11:38 AM

Weird != good. His "weird" stuff is more just stupid looking half the time.

Women with legs twice as long as the rest of their body combined, wearing high heels that are bigger than their friggin' heads, and thigh highs that if they had a crotch section could just end up being leather pants with built in leather socks and heels.

That's weird, yes. Good? No, not unless you're into Blanche's (quite frankly, rather creepy) perversions and fetishes. I'm not, it just looks hideous to me.

The_Ancient

03-31-2010, 12:15 PM

disturbed by the grim dark of it all lol

I think its a bit of a bold step to say that because i like his strange pictures that im some kind of pervert

his pictures of inquisition and mechanicus characters are iconic and characterful (and yes sometimes a bit creepy) but definatley give off that the grim dark vibe that we love so much. much better than endless computer drawn "cathedral fresco" type art

Melissia

03-31-2010, 01:40 PM

I don't know about the Inquisition stuff, I don't pay any attention (because I don't care). But for the torsos of the Sisters of Battle armor I think they look more stupid than iconic.

The armor the Sisters of Battle wear have some good parts (the best looking helmets in 40k, for example, and some awesome looking leg and arm armor, and even the sleeves and loincloth all look particularly nice)... but inevitably I am drawn to the craptactular torso with its unnecessary, stupid and moronic looking corset and boob cups.

As much as I occasionally bash Space Marines, I actually like how their armor looks for the most part, there's no glaring obvious crap that sticks out as just plain stupid on that armor. It's very stylized, but at the same time it also looks like it provides actual protection. It looks like proper sci-fi armor.

The same cannot be said of the torso of the Sisters models. It looks like they said "huh, well this armor is kinda good, but come on, they're women, we can't have them wearing armor that isn't sexist and idiotic, how can we ruin it?" and then they added the corset and boob cups. It just doesn't fit with the Sisters of Battle (and you will not be able to convince me otherwise; they are Sisters of Battle, not Sisters of Whoredom), it's mismatched with the rest of the armor and just doesn't fit in stylistically, and it's just stupid looking on a MILITARY UNIT.

The more I think about it the more obnoxious it becomes, and the more I hate John Blanche's ****ty artwork. So I'm gonna go over there and drop it.

Commissar Lewis

03-31-2010, 03:26 PM

Aw but I like the boob cups and corsets. It's kinky, and visually appealing to my male mind and eyes.

DarkLink

03-31-2010, 04:07 PM

Oh, yeah, that's what I meant. Removing the inquisition from the fluff would be like ripping out someone's liver and then asking them to pretend it was never there.

I don't really care what happens to them as long as they're removed from my Sisters dex.

To be honest, I don't think that the Inquisition really belongs on the tabletop. Inquisitors seem purpose-built for RPG's like Dark Heresy, but they just don't strike me as something that would be common on actual battlefields. At most, I could see the Inquisitor as an HQ choice for the IG. And the IG already have stormtroopers. That's about it, personally.

Kahoolin

03-31-2010, 05:05 PM

I think its a bit of a bold step to say that because i like his strange pictures that im some kind of pervert.Someone is making wild and baseless extrapolations on the internet? I never thought I'd see the day...

Hear hear. I think Blanche's art is iconic 40k also, and it looks good, and I'm not a pervert thank you very much. Sometimes artists use exaggeration and distortion to get feeling across. If all art was bland realism then it would be pretty boring.

When I was a kid I hated Blanche's art. HATED it. As I matured though, I came to appreciate it over many of the soulless CG illustrations in more recent GW products. Some of the best of them just about reach the heights of an Osprey reference book (e.g. the Cadians on the uniform pages in the old Guard codex). The rest usually look like comic book art, some good, some poor. Blanche's stuff on the other hand could be in a gallery. If anything it is too powerful and overwhelming to be used often beside "normal" illustrations. It's like a spice in a meal.

@Mel, if you find his distortion of the female form somehow disquieting fair enough, but that doesn't make it bad art. Picasso, Brett Whitely and pretty much every great artist of the 20th century has done the same thing at some point.

eldargal

03-31-2010, 05:11 PM

We actually had a house rule for a while that if playing an Imperial army you rolled a d6, if you rolled a 6 (pr 12 on 2d6 I forget) the Inquisition deemed the battle important enough, for their own reasons ,to tag along allowing the player to select an Inquisition ally from the codex. I think we stopped because the other player then had to go get other models to match point value etc and if they hadn't brought extra it was a real pain. But it gave a nice random/rare feeling to the Inquisition appearances on the table.

I don't mind some of Blanche;s AdMech art, but I do dislike his SoB stuff. I mean there is no way that some of his armour is actually armour, even if the girls are anorexic it would have to be latex.:rolleyes: At least the modelslook like they are wearing power armour, they just need to drop the cup size a bit.

andrewm9

04-01-2010, 05:56 AM

I think the exaggeration is on purpose for the Imperium. The Ecclesiarchy is not permitted to have men under arms so when the Sororitas take the field there is no mistaking them for men. Of course thats just my interpretation. The only model I thougth was too exaggerated was the Canoness becuase of the lines surrounding the cups. I personally think the leather look of the armor is merely something placed over the ceramite.

Melissia

04-01-2010, 08:56 AM

As for the "leather" part of the torso: And I think it's stupid. It doesn't match with the rest of the armor even. It's ugly, incongruous, unnecessary, and really should be removed for something metallic and, well, ARMOUR.

Commissar Lewis

04-01-2010, 11:02 AM

Well if Colonel "Iron Hand" can get a 3+ shirtless, using only his rock-hard abs to deflect bullets and lasers than surely a leatherish corset can do the same?

Nah, I'm just rilin' you up Mel. 'Tis so fun.

Aegis

04-01-2010, 05:32 PM

Commissar Lewis

04-01-2010, 05:51 PM

That's true. He once launched a cluster f-bomb so obscene and vulgar it deflect a Tau railgun projectile, sending the poor little piece of metal home crying.

The_Ancient

04-01-2010, 06:45 PM

steering back around the topic peninsular

. At most, I could see the Inquisitor as an HQ choice for theIG.

This is kind of what i was thinking an imperial agents book where imperial armies/ chaos could take some kind of extra HQ/elites/heavy support choice that might be characterful and add variety. for example you could take an inquisitor as a HQ, rogue traders and assassins as an elite choice or admech pretorians as a heavy support. but yooou know whatever

Boreas

04-02-2010, 05:31 AM

To be honest, I don't think that the Inquisition really belongs on the tabletop. Inquisitors seem purpose-built for RPG's like Dark Heresy, but they just don't strike me as something that would be common on actual battlefields. At most, I could see the Inquisitor as an HQ choice for the IG. And the IG already have stormtroopers. That's about it, personally.

I disagree... I find Inquisitors to add a lot of flavor to armies. That even more true when part of campaigns. Plus, how common are Marneus Calgar, Legion of the Damned or The Sanguinor? Now, should they be part of the Sisters of Battle? Why not! No one is obliged to use the Legion of the Damned, yet it's still in the SM dex.

Phil

Melissia

04-02-2010, 08:23 AM

Why not! Because they are not Sisters of Battle nor the Ecclesiarchy, so they should stay out of my *******ed Sisters of Battle codex?

The Legion of the Damned aren't comparable, sure it was kinda silly to put them in but they ARE still Space Marines, in the Space Marine codex. They still fit.

Gnoblar with Pointy Stick

04-02-2010, 08:58 AM

Blanche's work is a little incongruous with "modern" Warhammer, I'll agree. But I'm not sure I like the "shininess" and clean proportions of more modern Warhammer art anyway. If people are expecting some neon power fantasy piece like this...
http://www.downloadmunkey.net/images/kingmong-02.jpg
And end up getting a more artistic and abstract image like, I don't know, a Blanche piece...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/John_Blanche_-_The_Sentinel.jpg
They're going to wonder what the hell is going on. Yes, there is fetishism in his work, perhaps even fetishism tinged with sexism. But for me, the presence of more artistic visions are leaving gaming in general. I think that's a bad thing, and is especially present in Magic the Gathering these days.

That was Then:
http://www.extensiveenterprisesonline.com/OnlineStore/images/tcgs/mtg/ice/mind_ravel.jpg

This is now:
http://www.shockyatoys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/mtg_jace_beleren_card.jpg

harrybuttwhisker

04-02-2010, 09:12 AM

In isolation it is merely a persons artistic vision and chosen mode of expression, only if people allow it to negatively influence there self beliefs or if it is used to oppress or denigrate does it become sexist.

We all have different ideas on how we envision our hobby that we are passionate about, perhaps we should look to support others in expressing their visions to the pinnacle of there ability. I would rather that than people trying to crush others vision and enforcing there own beliefs upon then.

I don't care what colour the apple is, I still enjoy the taste of apple, perhaps we could make a tasty pie together?

All told my opinion is that the therr should be one book, with three branches from a central spine.

The spine being the agents of the inquisition, the three branches, the three chambers militant. Allow people the flexibility to make a combined inquisition + relevant chamber militant, or stand alone chamber militant armies. That way everyone gets to have a finger in the pie.

Melissia

04-02-2010, 02:41 PM

Commissar Lewis

04-02-2010, 04:42 PM

Weird != "artistic vision"
Weird != good art that's enjoyable to look at
Weird just means weird. Not to say weird is bad. It's just weird.

Blanche's art is certainly weird, on that we agree.

But I think it's crap.

I agree that weird does not mean good or artistic. Which is why I often dislike Burton's movies, but I'm beside the point.

I agree that Blanche's art is definitely not for everyone.

DarkLink

04-02-2010, 08:41 PM

I'll just stick with my firm opinion that "art" is stupid. Art is pretty straight forward, either I like it or not. And I think blanche's stuff looks dumb, so I don't like it.

Kahoolin

04-02-2010, 10:35 PM

I'll just stick with my firm opinion that "art" is stupid. Art is pretty straight forward, either I like it or not. And I think blanche's stuff looks dumb, so I don't like it.What if I like something that you don't mate, am I stupid? ;)

I'm not the type to get angry online (kinda pointless really) but I've actually had to take a few deep breaths recently while reading this discussion. My partner is an artist (as in, exhibits in galleries) and so are a lot of my friends. You have no idea how much prejudice she faces from people with attitudes like yours, DarkLink. Creating a work of art is a very difficult, expensive and unrewarding thing to do, as is facing public criticism when you show it. The reason artists do what they do is because they aren't happy unless they make stuff, and they hope that other people like the stuff they have sacrificed a great deal of blood sweat and tears to give to the world. They are very courageous, focused and thoughtful people, they give far more to the world than the vast majority of TV watching slobs, and they deserve to be happy and have their efforts recognized just like every other person. :mad:

Usually the only thanks they get is from other artists. Everyone else just acts bemused at best, but every now and then some jerk will say that the artist's whole life choice is stupid or pointless or a waste of money and time, or some other thoughtless ****e. Often this is the attitude the media takes, at least here in Australia. Do you have any idea what it's like to spend months creating something beautiful only to have it ignored or laughed at or worse, to be told that you wasted yours and everyone elses time? It takes enormous courage to do that.

Next time you want to judge an artwork maybe try to remember this: it's OK to not like it, and at least Mel for example knows why she doesn't like Blanche's art, but you aren't portraying yourself in a very good light when the best you can come up with is that it "looks dumb" and ""art" is stupid."

EDIT: @DarkLink, sorry for the tone, but this is an issue I feel strongly about and I think it's important to stand up for what you believe in. I know you were probably just making an innocent comment.

Subject Keyword

04-03-2010, 04:03 PM

I love Blanche's work.
And hating "art" is really just close minded, but I can fully understand you getting offended about it (having a partner who is an artist).
I agree with Gnoblar with pointy Stick about the art in Magic the Gathering going rapidly downhill as of late.

Vhalyar

04-03-2010, 04:04 PM

Once again veering off topic.

Perhaps some fantastic news like these by Harry (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4487633&postcount=169) would steer the discussion back to what it's supposed to be? :D

Melissia

04-03-2010, 05:00 PM

Not really, it prstty much says what we already know, Grey Knights are coming late this year.

Vhalyar

04-03-2010, 05:12 PM

You're right, a credible source saying that Grey Knights are coming this year, after a long period of no information, and that someone else's rumors are true is not very good.

Let's go back to talking about rape, violence and defining each other's perception of art then :p

Melissia

04-03-2010, 06:44 PM

We've already had credible sources saying that exact same thing for some time now...

DarkLink

04-03-2010, 07:02 PM

What if I like something that you don't mate, am I stupid? ;)

No, you have every right to like what you want to like. I don't like artsy stuff. I could care less about people "expressing themselves" and such. But I never said I hold those people in contempt. If your friend's an artist, I don't have a problem with that. There is no reason you should think that I would.

Allow me to explain, as you seem to have misunderstood my statement. I don't like, for example, Picasso. I think all that abstract artwork looks stupid. I don't have a problem with picasso himself. I've never met picasso, obviously, so I'm not making any judgements. I just don't like his artwork. (and btw, just because he might have put a lot of sweat and blood into his art doesn't mean I have some obligation to like it).

I have a friend going to college for art stuff. Do I like all of his wierd, abstract art? No, not all of it. Do I suddenly dislike him, despite the fact that he was a good friend of mine? No. Am I somehow rude to him, always getting up in his face about how stupid art is? No, absolutely not.

I never said anything about having a problem with artists. I never said anything of the sort. I simply expressed my opinion on a subject, which I have every right to do so. I don't care for fancy artsy stuff. It's as simple as that. I don't know where you got all that stuff about being prejudiced or rude to artists, as I never said anything of the sort. I really don't get why you seem to be so pissed off and go off ranting. Seriously. Chill.

Kahoolin

04-04-2010, 02:53 AM

Don't worry, I'm chilled, I'm chilled :D I chilled right after I wrote that, hence the edit.

Of course you can like what you want, and you are under no obligation to like something because someone put work into it, but I do think you should respect the work. Not just in art, but every time someone goes to the trouble of creating something. If you don't agree with that then... I just won't discuss it further *shrug*

If you're interested, it was this that set me off:
I'll just stick with my firm opinion that "art" is stupid.That just seems like a clear statement that you don't respect something I deeply respect, and I took issue with it. I hope you can understand that. No hard feelings? :)

Now back to the important discussion: Imaginary space men (and women)!

Boreas

04-04-2010, 04:22 AM

Because they are not Sisters of Battle nor the Ecclesiarchy, so they should stay out of my *******ed Sisters of Battle codex?

Well, they are ordo Hereticus and its not your codex... I still think diversity is a good thing. They could invent another 6-8 SoB HQs, but it would become a bit redundant. It would be more fun to have 4-5 SoB HQ (including 1-2 named ones) and Inquisitors (including a named one). All WH Inquisitors models are wayyyy too nice for them to ditch!

I guess the (probably) upcoming GK codex will tell us towards which way GW leans.

Phil

eldargal

04-04-2010, 04:33 AM

No, they are NOT Ordo Hereticus, they work with the Ordo Hereticus due to a treaty known as the Convocation of Nephilim. The Adepta Sororitas are part of the Adeptus Ministorum aka the Ecclesiarchy (the Imperial Church), The Ordo Hereticus are part of the Inquisition. Two entirely different organisations that work together. Indeed, the Ordo Hereticus was set up expressly by the Inquisition due to fear of heresy amongst the Adeptus Ministorum after the Vandire incident. The Adepta Sororitas are no more a part of the Ordo Hereticus than are the Adeptus Astartes, the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy, the Adeptus Mechanicus or the bloody Tau.
I'm sorry if I sound grumpy but it just annoys me that so many people think the Adepta Sororitas are part of the Inquisition. THe reason being, of course, they were lumped into the same codex for no good reason.

Well, they are ordo Hereticus and its not your codex... I still think diversity is a good thing. They could invent another 6-8 SoB HQs, but it would become a bit redundant. It would be more fun to have 4-5 SoB HQ (including 1-2 named ones) and Inquisitors (including a named one). All WH Inquisitors models are wayyyy too nice for them to ditch!

I guess the (probably) upcoming GK codex will tell us towards which way GW leans.

Phil

AirHorse

04-04-2010, 05:07 AM

I guess a burning hatred of the witch and the heretic combined with working together in combined arms on a semi-frequent basis is no good reason :P It was the WITCHHUNTERS codex, and both of those forces certainly are witch hunters.

Personally I feel that a sisters only codex would ultimately be a bit too thin overall these days given the amount of variety that current edition codices are handing out and quite frankly I would be disapointed in a huge amount of brand new units being added after theyve had a fairly consistent back ground for so long. A few new units, hell yeah! But enough to bring them up to the amount of choices other forces enjoy? I think it would be pushing it tbh. I also think the same of the grey knights before anyone says anything :P

I thought that the inquisition codices were brilliant personally, and I would love an updated set of codices including the inquisition and all the toys they get to play with, but it seems thats not what we will get :(

eldargal

04-04-2010, 05:21 AM

Every chapter of Space Marines has the same purpose and variation of units and they get their own codices. If there was going to be an Inquisition codex it should have had Ordo Hereticus, Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos in it, not Adepta Sororitas.
It is worth noting that Adepta Sororita are NOT purely witch hunters, as Ordo Hereticus are, they defend the Imperium against all its foes, even if their primary focus is hunting heretics. Saint Praxedes vs the Tyranids springs to mind.

I guess a burning hatred of the witch and the heretic combined with working together in combined arms on a semi-frequent basis is no good reason :P It was the WITCHHUNTERS codex, and both of those forces certainly are witch hunters.

Personally I feel that a sisters only codex would ultimately be a bit too thin overall these days given the amount of variety that current edition codices are handing out and quite frankly I would be disapointed in a huge amount of brand new units being added after theyve had a fairly consistent back ground for so long. A few new units, hell yeah! But enough to bring them up to the amount of choices other forces enjoy? I think it would be pushing it tbh. I also think the same of the grey knights before anyone says anything :P

I thought that the inquisition codices were brilliant personally, and I would love an updated set of codices including the inquisition and all the toys they get to play with, but it seems thats not what we will get :(

Melissia

04-04-2010, 10:01 AM

Personally I feel that a sisters only codex would ultimately be a bit too thin overall these days

And for that, you are wrong. (http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Ally&action=display&thread=7887) Yes, your feelings are completely and utterly wrong. This is one of hte few times I'll flat out say an opinion is wrong, as I myself have proven as fact that they can be expanded upon believably and given more, to the point of being equal in the size of their army list to any fifth edition codex. The Sisters of Battle have a great concept, but are very underutilized-- so it's actually quite EASY to expand their army list, and do it tastefully and do it well.

Faultie

04-04-2010, 10:28 AM

And for that, you are wrong. (http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Ally&action=display&thread=7887) Yes, your feelings are completely and utterly wrong. This is one of hte few times I'll flat out say an opinion is wrong, as I myself have proven as fact that they can be expanded upon believably and given more, to the point of being equal in the size of their army list to any fifth edition codex. The Sisters of Battle have a great concept, but are very underutilized-- so it's actually quite EASY to expand their army list, and do it tastefully and do it well.
By tastefully, you mean with a Leman Russ?

I kid, I kid. But seriously, the idea that "they don't have many models/units now, so obviously can't be a new stand-alone codex" is ridiculous. The whole point of giving them their own codex is to be able to flesh them out the way they should've done in 3rd Ed. I would buy up plastic SoBs by the truck load. A Ministorum force with fieldable models? Decent arcoflags, PEs, and updated Sisters models?

Yes, please.

Melissia

04-04-2010, 10:52 AM

The LRV is tasteful :P

Faultie

04-04-2010, 11:10 AM

The LRV is tasteful :P

Quite so! A hint of bleu, or maybe it's Gorgonzola. Is that Cabrales? ;)

Shagrath

04-04-2010, 12:24 PM

personally I love the blanche artwork, and respect it for its position in 40ks history, and design in general.

I actually really agree about the bit about magic the gathering not really being artistic anymore. Wizards is really going for the big bucks with their current design model (not like anyone else we know of course :rolleyes:) conforming to what competitive players, and little kids want(more plainswalkers and timmy cards).

just food for thought :o

DarkLink

04-04-2010, 01:11 PM

Don't worry, I'm chilled, I'm chilled :D I chilled right after I wrote that, hence the edit.

If you're interested, it was this that set me off: That just seems like a clear statement that you don't respect something I deeply respect, and I took issue with it. I hope you can understand that. No hard feelings? :)

No problems here:). I just wanted to make sure that you knew I wasn't trying to be flippant or disrespectful with the "I don't like art" comment. The comment was made mostly in jest over the blanche argument, which I don't care for, in my personal opinion.

AirHorse

04-04-2010, 05:45 PM

Melissia, after having read through the link you provided my opinion hasnt changed at all really. Most of your suggestions, while they have appropriate background, are just reworked guard or space marine concepts shoved into sisters hands.

Im not saying that 40k is original and that they dont reuse concepts to death, but quite frankly I think gw are exploring the variants on power armour and bolters enough with variant marine chapters and if they do a sisters army like youve suggested they will just be stuck in the female marines position they almost got steered into and acts of faith will continue to be their only real gimmik.

That would be a tradegy, I think they have awesome background but im not talking about their background when I say there isnt enough there. We are already getting tired of marine variants and grey knights appear to be scheduled already so I stand by my comment that their codex will seem very thin by 5th ed standards if they get a stand alone codex.

Melissia

04-04-2010, 06:00 PM

Melissia, after having read through the link you provided my opinion hasnt changed at all really. Most of your suggestions, while they have appropriate background, are just reworked guard or space marine concepts shoved into sisters hands.

Thunderfire Cannons are reworked Thudd Guns. Ratlings are reworked Scouts. Leman Russ Demolishers are just LR tanks with the battle cannon swapped for a Vindicator's main weapon. The new Blood Angels Fast Predator with inferno cannon is just a reworked Hellhound. The new Blood Angels flyer is just a reworked Valkyrie. Hell, Imperial Guard Veterans have the ability to take multiple flamers, including a heavy flamer / flamer combo, just like Battle Sisters can, and Imperial Guard Orders definitely seem inspired by Sisters of Battle Acts of Faith.

Shall I go on?

Quite frankly, nothing I say will likely convince you. And you will never, EVER convince me that the Sisters of Battle cannot be made tastefully into a full army of their own. It is pointless to even try, because I've already done it, and no, what I produced is NOT "female Space Marines". If you want to make such an accusation, then by all means produce an argument that backs it up-- preferably in my 3E C:AS thread on this forum or on the IGMB. Otherwise? Drop it. I was very careful to build the codex to NOT be what you accuse it to be, don't think I'd react nicely to it.

Shagrath

04-05-2010, 09:00 AM

Hmmm just noticed that if harry and dpa are to be believed that's 2 phil kelly dexes in a row...

DarkLink

04-05-2010, 10:51 AM

Sisters are a whole lot more fleshed out than Grey Knights, and the Grey Knights have been expanded enough to get their own codex apparently...

And if the Dark Angels warrent their own codex, then Sisters sure do even if you do consider them to be "just another MEQ army". Which they aren't, but I digress.

Shagrath

04-05-2010, 07:04 PM

they will always make more units if the codex isn't its own special snowflake.....or the universe always needs more stuff mysteriously appearing.

HsojVvad

04-05-2010, 07:33 PM

Been away for a while, had a lot to read up on here. Just browsed through Mellissa's C:SA, very well done. Going to go back and read it again when I got more time, but from a quick look, I like it. Stands out on it's own with flavour and individuality.

Gooball

04-06-2010, 07:23 AM

Melissia

04-06-2010, 09:23 AM

I don't give a damn about those factions, but we do know that Grey Knights are getting a codex later this year.

Shagrath

04-06-2010, 10:35 AM

Definitely going to be a droolworthy dex...

Melissia

04-06-2010, 10:59 AM

I might even be convinced by buy some Grey Knights if the codex is good and there's plastic models.

Necrosis

04-06-2010, 11:03 AM

Hrmm just been told by a fellow who works at GW that apparently witch hunters and daemon hunters aren't getting a new codex.
The Xenos order will be though!
(They're putting all three of them into one codex or so i have been told)

First of all never listen to staff.
Second of all, Harry himself has said otherwise.
Third of all, that codex would never work. Having 3/4 different armies being place into one codex would either a. make it the biggest codex out their or b. make it a half *** done codex. Would you imagine how much fluff and units you would need to add in? Not to mention how complicated the rules would be for having 3/4 different armies.

MadCowCrazy

04-06-2010, 10:12 PM

I think what he might have heard about is the Inquisition codex or suppliment thing thats been going around.
Basically a codex focusing on the Inquisition with some Inducted units to bare.

DarkLink

04-07-2010, 04:05 PM

Hrmm just been told by a fellow who works at GW that apparently witch hunters and daemon hunters aren't getting a new codex.
The Xenos order will be though!
(They're putting all three of them into one codex or so i have been told)

This is a misunderstanding on your part.

Yes, technically there will not be a C:WH/DH codex.

Instead, the current WH/DH codices will be dropped, and replaced with the following:

Codex: Grey Knights
Codex: Sisters of Battle
Codex: Inquisition (which is a combined Inquisition codex, including WH, DH and XH)

Some people have heard "no WH/DH replacements" and taken it to mean that the entire Inquisition will be dropped. This is almost certainly not the case.

Some people have heard "combined Inquisition" and thought that that means that the Sisters and Grey Knights will be in the same codex. This is almost certainly not the case.

We're getting a C:GK, C:SoB and C:I, unless something happens to change that, which is theoretically possible, but rather unlikely at this point.

Melissia

04-07-2010, 06:28 PM

If we do get C:I, I'm fairly certain all three people who use pure Inquisition forces will have spaz attacks of joy.

Boreas

04-07-2010, 07:06 PM

This is a misunderstanding on your part.

Yes, technically there will not be a C:WH/DH codex.

Instead, the current WH/DH codices will be dropped, and replaced with the following:

Codex: Grey Knights
Codex: Sisters of Battle
Codex: Inquisition (which is a combined Inquisition codex, including WH, DH and XH)

Some people have heard "no WH/DH replacements" and taken it to mean that the entire Inquisition will be dropped. This is almost certainly not the case.

Some people have heard "combined Inquisition" and thought that that means that the Sisters and Grey Knights will be in the same codex. This is almost certainly not the case.

We're getting a C:GK, C:SoB and C:I, unless something happens to change that, which is theoretically possible, but rather unlikely at this point.

Is there anything firm on this? Seems like "Internet Déja Vu" to me. Some people speculated about this a while ago, it got picked up as a vague rumor somewhere else then got elevated to proper rumor...

Phil

gwensdad

04-07-2010, 07:17 PM

If we do get C:I, I'm fairly certain all three people who use pure Inquisition forces will have spaz attacks of joy.

Do you mean "pure" to mean "no inducted units" or "no GK/SoB"? I'm hoping to run Witch Hunters with inducted Guard this weekend. (Making me #4-yeah! :D)
And I really really want to paint up a Deathwatch team. I just need updated rules/pt costs.

DarkLink

04-07-2010, 08:59 PM

Is there anything firm on this? Seems like "Internet Déja Vu" to me. Some people speculated about this a while ago, it got picked up as a vague rumor somewhere else then got elevated to proper rumor...

Phil

Sisters and Grey Knights are practically confirmed. There are rumors of a C:I, as well.

Personally, I believe it for one very good reason.

We had numerous reliable sources making two claims:
1. Grey Knights and Sisters would be in separate codices.
2. Some other sources, and popular speculation, spoke of a combined Inquisition codex.

A lot of people took the rumors to be contradictory and assumed that the Inquisition was being dropped in favor of separate GK's and Sisters. However, it seems that the "combined Inquisition" was actually hints of a C:I that had neither Grey Knights or Sisters in it. The combined part referred to combined WH/DH/XH, rather than combined Sisters and Grey Knights.

Now, we don't actually know anything for certain beyond about 3 months. Which means we don't know anything for certain atm. But until we get to the end of the year, I'd say we're about as certain as we can be that there will be a Grey Knight codex, and later a Sisters codex. I think it's also a fair bet for a C:I, as well.