Chaos 1500 point TAC competitive list feedback wanted

[fellclaw01]

Looking for feedback for the following list seeking to make it more compeditive

Chaos black legion 1500

Abbadon.

Chaos terminators. 4
Power and chain fists
Total.

Land Raider.
Dirge caster.
Dozer blades
Total.

10cultist
Flamer.
Total.

10cultist
Flamer,
Total.

10 cultist with 10/w autoguns
Heavy stubber
Total.

Chaos space marines. 10 =
2 plasma guns
Rhino
Total. 205

Heldrake
Baleflamer

3 Obliterators

Aegis defence line w/ quad gun.

Total. 1500

[Denzark]

Drop Abaddon. Take a Nurgle Chaos Lord with blight grenades and terminator armour.

Run the cultists in one blob. Put the Lord with them. Drop the Land Raider. Take a second Heldrake.

Use the remaining points (-Abaddon - Land raider = what, 480? + Lord = about 100 ish + Heldrake = 270-is - left = 200 points ) to take another Chaos Space Marine unit.

In fact consider dropping the Terminators.

Not sure if you can do competitive and Black Legion fluffy here old chap.

[fellclaw01]

Actually think this new list is better

Abbadon. 265

Chosen. 5 108
+ lightning claws. 30
+ power fist. 25
+ 2 power weapons. 30
Total. 193

Land Raider. 230
Dirge caster. 5
Dozer blades 5
Total. 240

10cultist 50
Flamer, 5
Total. 55

10cultist 50
Flamer, 5
Total. 55

10cultist 50

10 cultist with 10/w autoguns 50
Heavy stubber 5
Total. 55

Heldrake 170
Baleflamer

Heldrake 170
Baleflamer

3 Obliterators 210

Aegis defence line w/ quad gun. 100

Total. 1500

[fellclaw01]

Ill put together another list with some of your ideas any thoughts on the new list?

[Power Klawz]

Abaddon is a pretty cool guy I guess, but an apex melee beatstick is still a pretty lackluster choice in the modern competitive paradigm (which is kind of an oxymoron I guess, but I digress.)

Melee chosen run into the same problem a large portion of the CSM list runs into, namely its too expensive and not survivable enough to warrant the cost. Even with the land raider they're going to run over precisely one thing at best and then get torn to bits by flashlights unless you somehow manage the perfect assault sequence. (Charge, stay in combat, wipe unit on opponent's turn, charge next turn etc.)

The land raider is pretty fun and might even be a nice spoiler move in a plasma-ridden meta. Due to its exorbitant cost I don't think anyone would call it a top tier choice, but you might be able to make it work with the right passengers, I just don't think that melee chosen are the right passengers. You'd be better off sticking with terminators.

That's a fair amount of cultists, but with their mediocre leadership and weedy nature they won't make it past turn 2 against a fully optimized shooting list. The units needs to be bigger to let them grab an objective and hold it long enough to win the game. 10 of those guys even in good cover aren't going to last long.

For example: 10 cultists hiding in a 3+ cover save environment on an objective, somehow miraculously unharmed throughout the game. A 10 man tac squad adavances. Lets just call it 10 boltguns at rapid fire range. That's 3 dead cultists on average, enough to force a morale test which they have a pretty good chance of failing. Let's say that same tac squad instead shoots with their pistols and charges. That's about 1.5 dead from the shooting, overwatch will struggle to kill a single marine. Tac marines have grenades so they'll attack first with 22 attacks. (2 per tac marine, 4 from vet sergeant with additional ccw) That's another 8.14 dead cultists, leaving you with statistically about 0.36 cultists left, so maybe like a jittering leg or a still blinking, decapitated head or something. My point being that even the modest tactical squad will wipe you out in a single turn given the best of circumstances, so you might want to reconsider the numbers.

I'd probably try to take 4 obliterators in 2 groups of 2, you should also find points to give them the mark of nurgle because it makes them awesomer.

With 2 drakes flapping around I seriously doubt you need the aegis defense line, especially since the only thing that will conceivably be staying back to man that quad gun would be a bs3 cultist.

I don't have my dex with me at the moment so I can't work out precise point values, but at 1500 I guess I'd try to keep a heldrake and 2 obliterators. I'd drop the land raider and run 3 terminators with combi-meltas that I can deep strike in somewhere to make something bad go away. I'd run either a cheap lord or a whatever-you-call-chaos-chaplains with a big blob of 30+ cultists. I'd rock some bolter bros in some rhinos with some plasma spam. Spread marks of nurgle around as necessary. Throw in some bikers with plasma and/or melta and I think you could do worse.

[fellclaw01]

Thanks dude. The initial list is based on what I pretty much have ready to go painted etc the second list just needs me to get the helldrake. Have heaps of CSMs but only 1 rhino but not keen on another

Like some of your ideas like the termies deep striking and trying to work out some good bike setup

Don't get me wrong not really lookin for fluffy want ultra competitive. black legion is purely so I can apply marks as needed etc. the only thing is I only want to use painted units where I can and avoid unpainted stuff and have a heap of projects on the go

Ill write something up in next few days