Why cant my Vanquisher fire HE rounds?!

[Aldramelech]

So Ive got my Vanquisher all nicely painted and ready to go but then I start to wonder "why cant the Vanquisher battle cannon fire a HE round?" Being a bit of a real life tread head I know as much as the next man the huge variation in tank main gun rounds available so you would think in the 41st they'd have figured out how to do the same?;)

[chromedog]

Because they made a standard leman russ obsolete by being able to fire both rounds.
I mean, who would use a standard russ with it's 72" battle cannon round range, when the vanquisher could use its round and had a longer range too?

[Aldramelech]

The Vanquisher and the Battle Cannon both have a range of 72", they are both strength 8. The big V is AP2 the battle cannon is AP3. Large Blast for the Battle Cannon, Extra D6 penetration for the Vanquisher.

This in my opinion gives the Vanquisher a big disadvantage.

Why cant the V fire a HE shell using the small blast template at AP3? That would make it value for the points

[bob]

It's the same reason that the sergeant in your infantry squads can't carry a lasgun.
The same reason you tech priest engineseer can't bring a chimera.

Robin Cruddace (responsible for the guard dex) thinks it's better this way.

By the way can anyone think of a reason for the change in name of the hellgun? it's bugged me for a whilke

[bob]

Sorry double post

[Old_Paladin]

chromedog hit the nail on the head; It's purely a game-play thing.
Each tank has a role in mind. Russ, general purpose. Vanq, anti-tank. Nova, anti-covered infanty.

If I could take the cheaper Russ, give it a couple each of Hi-Ex, Sabot, and inferno shells; why take any other tank?
If the Vanq had Hi-Ex, then the normal Russ is redundant; unless you know ahead of time that you won't face much armour, and the AT shots would be pointless.

This isn't real life, where MBT's cannons are as versitial as possible; so that one kind of tank can do lots of jobs.

[Col.Gravis]

In honesty I hav'nt tried the Vanquisher out under the new codex yet, but at a guess it was to remove making taking the Vanquisher a no brainer over a standard Leman Russ, I mean how much extra would you charge for the Vanquishers special AT shot, at the 180 odd of the old codex it was probably over costed, but put it much less and it's just a case of spare points.

Im not sure I agree with what they've done too it, but it is if that was the percieved problem a solution, though from a 'tankers' stand point it does'nt make much sense really.

@bob, to partly answer a question with a question, why did they change the name to a Helgun in the first place? A Stormtroopers lasweapon was originally the Hotshot Lasgun, it did'nt become a Helgun until 3rd Edition.

[Maturin]

Since the guys who wrote Imperial Armour were treadheads as well, I believe the Vanquisher is supposed to be an analogue to the WWII Sherman Firefly (if you take the Leman Russ as the Sherman). And though the Firefly was equipped with the best Allied (US/UK) anti-tank gun of the war (17 pounder), it didn't have HE shells available until later in the war due to poor HE shell performance.

But in the far future, you can justify anything by the use of STC's, or the loss thereof. :p

[Aldramelech]

If I was a cynical person I could say it was done to sell more tank models........ But the nice guys at GW wouldn't deliberately try and get me to part with my hard earned cash would they?

[Col.Gravis]

If I was a cynical person I could say it was done to sell more tank models........ But the nice guys at GW wouldn't deliberately try and get me to part with my hard earned cash would they?

I would'nt of disagreed entirely until the Demolisher kit, but now I'd not be in the least bit surprised to see the Vanquisher done as a swapable weapon option of the normal Russ kit when it arrives.

[xarius]

its not like gw enjoy stealing your moeny with staggered releases of the same basic kit

[Denzark]

Take one from an IA book instead - still gets both ammo in that list?

[Majorcrash]

I cant say I disagree with anything said here, it like the conquerer what ever was the point of that. I had been taking a vanquisher as part of a squadron with a standard russ, When the screaming Chapilin and the sqaud he joins come flying at me the Russ flattens the squad then the vanquisher pops the chapilin. Also good for killing wayward dreads and the occasional landraider, Had to upgrade it to add plasma cannon sponsons now. does a great job as a secondary executioner.

[Old_Paladin]

Ah, the good old conquerer. The point of it was that it could both move and fire, and fire all its weapons (since it was a heavy weapon, not ordanance). Althought, for the point cost, the exterminator was probably better.

[Xas]

tbh I'd have rather had a vanqu with a s8 ap2 3"blast, 2d6 instead of its current weapon.

as an AT weapon it would feel more realistic (you can deviate and hit other tanks. if your target basically is a shoulder to shoulder tank squadron you couldnt miss even if you tried :) ), have at least a bit of AP use but still not outshine LRBT and LRExec. first has a 5" blast, second has 3 shots.

[Araqiel]

Or if they weren't going to give it any blast they could pump it up to AP1 or even S10. For as many points as you're paying for a BS3 shot you should be getting something that can do more then scratch the paint on a Monolith.

As is I don't think it's really worth it outside of Apoc or where you know you're playing some guy who always brings three Land Raiders.

[Madjob]

its not like gw enjoy stealing your moeny with staggered releases of the same basic kit

Do you have to buy each kit when they come out? Buy the ones you want/need for your army, magnetize them so you can swap out the extra main cannons.

[Aldramelech]

Playing a 1000pt game against unpleasant green things tonight, I'll let you know how the tank fairs.

[Aldramelech]

The Tank in question

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/andyblackmore/100_0208.jpg

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/andyblackmore/100_0209.jpg

[The Plastic Surgeon]

Nice tank, so how did you go with the Green Skins?

I also don't like the fact that it can no longer shoot HE like it used to. I can understand that they do things purely for gameplay reasons, but I think that with all that time on their hands being paid to write the rules, one can be a bit more imaginative to make all those Russ variants useful in their own right without imposing suspension of disbelief shattering (maybe too strong a word, but it shatters it for me!) restrictions.

*shakes fist at his Terminators who are now suddenly too good to hold the Emperor's objectives!)

:D

[Aldramelech]

Thats later on tonight, just hopping it doesn't become a very expensive carrier for a Hvy Stubber! lol

[The Plastic Surgeon]

Thats later on tonight, just hopping it doesn't become a very expensive carrier for a Hvy Stubber! lol

Hey don't diss the mighty heavy stubber! It rocks my world! :p

In one game it did more damage than all the other weapons on an Exterminator!

[Aldramelech]

OK. Turn 1. Main gun hits Ork Killer kan, penetrates with ease, result crew shaken Arrgg! Lascon misses. Turn 2. Main gun misses same target, Las cannon hits, penetrates, result immobilized. Turn 3. No more big Targets so fire heavy stubber at big Orc unit, missed arrgggg! Turn 4. Got bored and Tank shocked big orc unit! Killed 4 and the rest buggered off.
Conclusion? Its a lot of points for a big bulldozer! lol

[The Plastic Surgeon]

OK. Turn 1. Main gun hits Ork Killer kan, penetrates with ease, result crew shaken Arrgg! Lascon misses. Turn 2. Main gun misses same target, Las cannon hits, penetrates, result immobilized. Turn 3. No more big Targets so fire heavy stubber at big Orc unit, missed arrgggg! Turn 4. Got bored and Tank shocked big orc unit! Killed 4 and the rest buggered off.
Conclusion? Its a lot of points for a big bulldozer! lol

LOL! It needs HE shells.

[bob]

OK. Turn 1. Main gun hits Ork Killer kan, penetrates with ease, result crew shaken Arrgg! Lascon misses. Turn 2. Main gun misses same target, Las cannon hits, penetrates, result immobilized. Turn 3. No more big Targets so fire heavy stubber at big Orc unit, missed arrgggg! Turn 4. Got bored and Tank shocked big orc unit! Killed 4 and the rest buggered off.
Conclusion? Its a lot of points for a big bulldozer! lol

How did you kill four with tank shock?

[The Plastic Surgeon]

How did you kill four with tank shock?

Well I suppose they must have done some sort of Death or Glory. Well in this case, just death :p

[Madjob]

Well I suppose they must have done some sort of Death or Glory. Well in this case, just death :p

Well yea, but only one model in a unit can opt to DoG from a single tank shock. What probably happened is that he rolled very low on his fallback and ended up with a few models still stuck underneath the Vanquisher's final position.

[Aldramelech]

Well yea, but only one model in a unit can opt to DoG from a single tank shock. What probably happened is that he rolled very low on his fallback and ended up with a few models still stuck underneath the Vanquisher's final position.

Yep.

[The Plastic Surgeon]

Well yea, but only one model in a unit can opt to DoG from a single tank shock. What probably happened is that he rolled very low on his fallback and ended up with a few models still stuck underneath the Vanquisher's final position.

I'm thinking of my group's house rules (well more like a rewrite!) since we loved the spectre of model after model trying in vain to stop a tank and get squished. Makes for a lot of laughs, especially when its a Terminator squad each taking a turn to do it with powerfists and FAILING against a Rhino....

:D

[crazyredpraetorian]

I have never cared for the Vanquisher...and I really have no use for it's current version. I am amazed that people even bother with it, muchless build armies around it. It is just not consistent enough for it's points!

[The Plastic Surgeon]

I have never cared for the Vanquisher...and I really have no use for it's current version. I am amazed that people even bother with it, muchless build armies around it. It is just not consistent enough for it's points!

It's all about the size of the barrel you see! :p