New Star Wars to suck at the Retcon root.

[Denzark]

So, no Grand Admiral Thrawn, Daala, or a planet landing on Chewbacca's head. On the plus side, no Yuuzhan Vong tosh either.

http://www.businessinsider.com/disney-star-wars-expanded-universe-2014-4

[Houghten]

I don't care what they say about the Wraith Squadron trilogy; it happened and they can't takes it away from us, precious!

[Mr Mystery]

Nothing new. And quite a wise move.

It gives the overly entitled neckbeards with no movie making experience (and likely no work experience at all) a lot less to whine about, such as the casting choices for characters, how a scene should play out etc.

[Denzark]

Do you mean retconning or this info - I haven't seen it before... as to the neckbeards - if you keep sitting on that fence MM, you'll get splinters in the botty...

[Mr Mystery]

Nonsense!

MY CHEEKS ARE LIKE A SHIELD OF STEEL!

[Darren Richardson]

mehh, never read that extended universe tosh any way.....

Still it will piss off a lot of die hard fans.....

Which is good in my books, never really saw what others saw in it, just like star trek, it's overrated...

[daboarder]

WOW

that is....


a stupid move

a very stupid move

I mean there is more material and culture built around the expanded universe than all the films combined,,,,,,and what do the external rights holders think of this, take FFGs for example, most of their stuff is from the EU.....

think of it this way, lucasfilm and the EU has been one of the best examples of colaborative "world building" because they demand that all EU material is consistent with all other EU material.

[Nabterayl]

think of it this way, lucasfilm and the EU has been one of the best examples of colaborative "world building" because they demand that all EU material is consistent with all other EU material.
There's two sides to this move. Fixing the above is one of them. The EU has never been canon to Lucas. Yes, he borrowed from it during Episodes I-III and during The Clone Wars, but it was never real Star Wars - only a potential source of inspiration. The entire complicated hierarchy of Star Wars canon boils down to this:

People who make Star Wars movies only have to be consistent with other movies, but nothing else. (G canon)
People who make Star Wars TV shows have to be consistent with other Star Wars TV shows and the movies, but nothing else. (T canon)
People who make Star Wars anything else have to be consistent with everything else. (C canon)
As a result, even under the current canon regime, new movies or TV shows would automatically trump the entire EU.

What I like about this new move is that they're getting rid of that system. The hierarchy of which Star Wars media could ignore which other Star Wars media was always a product of Lucas running the show. Now that he's not, they're free to say that all Star Wars media have to be consistent with all other Star Wars media, and that's exactly what they have done. They're structuring things internally so they can say to someone designing a prop for a movie in 2025, "Hey, you can't do it that way, because we already know what that object looks like thanks to a comic book in 2018."

It is true that the flip side of this is that everything published up until now is on the chopping block. But that was actually true before this announcement, at least vis a vis TV shows and movies. And I doubt very much that they're going to approach this as a clean slate. As the announcement video points out, and various authors involved in the current EU have testified, people at Lucasfilm (except for Lucas himself) love the EU. Hell, even Lucas mined the EU. LFL isn't going to turn around and say, "Well we don't actually know who invented the X-wing or its model number, because nobody ever said it on screen." But they are going to say (as they already have been doing throughout their TV and film products), "We reserve the right to overwrite stuff that has only been published hitherto." I'm not expecting a blank slate situation - instead, I predict they'll take the position of everything being potentially real until the pressure front of the new EU has touched on the detail in question.

But the flip side is that once the new EU does touch on the detail in question, it's real for everything - books, comics, games, TV, film, etc. That is a huge plus in my book. And two decades of curating the not-really-real EU has given Lucasfilm the institutional experience to actually keep track of all of this stuff.

To me, that's more important than any particular detail of the current continuity. Yes, there are things about the current EU that are personally, fanboyishly important to me. But there are other parts of it that I think are an insult to Star Wars, and I can't imagine I'm the only fan who feels that way. What I really want is for Lucasfilm to take all of Star Wars seriously, and for the first time they've said they're going to do that. If they're prepared to do that, I actually don't want them to just wave a wand and say that the current EU - Yuuzhan Vong, Children of the Jedi, and whatever else you think is garbage - and all, is now set in stone. That would actually suck, and not just because it would mean the next thirty years of Star Wars films are book adaptations.

[daboarder]

except as per lucas's orders, the EU had to all be checked for consistency.

Furthermore the choice to kill of chewbacca was HIS. As in they directly ordered salvatore to kill off one of the main characters to get across the idea that "no one is safe"


I was in a conference call with DelRey and Lucasfilm when the editors expressed that they loved the outline. (paraphrasing here) “This is exactly what we want, but didn’t anyone tell you? You have to kill Chewey.”

I won’t type the next two words that came out of my mouth. After a couple of days of arguments and, well, terror, they had convinced me that they were doing it for the right reasons, and well, George was down with it, and it’s his galaxy far, far away, so I did it.

The responses have been mixed, with some people loving the new direction, other people devastated. I think it might be the only thing I’ve ever regretted; I don’t think I’d go back and do that one again.

So yeah they could say what they wanted but the involvement and effort show otherwise.

Personally if they get rid of all the crap post thrawn and keep the rest then thats a good thing in my opinion.


putting it in financial perspective,

Anything not an x-wing, a-wing, y-wing, b-wing or tie fighter, bomber or interceptor is basically EU content......

Now before "someone" jumps in and tries to say that it is "Disneys material to do with as they will", licence holders have rights, and a decisions by the licenser that drastically affects the value of the licenced material, like say, declaring that its all tosh and now "unofficial" with new "official licences" to be sold is potentially a breach of those rights.
This one is going to be interesting....

[Denzark]

No Tie Defender!!! WTFROFLBBQ? I hate retconning as a matter of principle...

[daboarder]

I hate retconning as a matter of principle...

It has its place, particularly in highly variable inconsistent settings (40k heres looking at you)

But in a setting as tight and constrained as the EU, where the value of the material is a HUGE chunk of the value of the product....

[Nabterayl]

except as per lucas's orders, the EU had to all be checked for consistency.
Yes, that's true. But it only had to be checked with itself. T canon never had to conform with C canon, and G canon never had to conform with anything. Even prior to this announcement you could never object to the contents of a TV episode, say, by using the contents of a book. It was only the books that had to be consistent with each other. Coruscant "remained" Coruscant because Lucas decided to stay consistent with the books, not because he felt obliged to. Similarly, Jango Fett magically became not Mandalorian because the TV show said so, and TV automatically trumped books under the old regime.

[daboarder]

Yes, that's true. But it only had to be checked with itself. T canon never had to conform with C canon, and G canon never had to conform with anything. Even prior to this announcement you could never object to the contents of a TV episode, say, by using the contents of a book. It was only the books that had to be consistent with each other. Coruscant "remained" Coruscant because Lucas decided to stay consistent with the books, not because he felt obliged to. Similarly, Jango Fett magically became not Mandalorian because the TV show said so, and TV automatically trumped books under the old regime.

but the mandalorian armour, its not from the books its from the supporting information of the original trilogy.

[Nabterayl]

The idea that what we know of as Mandalorian armor is Mandalorian comes from Lucas himself - even though it's never said in any of the movies, Lucas' notebooks always referred to a race of supercommandos called Mandalorians. Similarly, despite numerous EU sources stating definitively that Jango Fett was Mandalorian - and, indeed, was Mandalore himself during the period of the Clone Wars - The Clone Wars season 2 flat-out contradicted that, because under old/current canon rules, TV shows are allowed to ignore "canon" that isn't directly in a movie or a TV show. While I applaud the work LFL has done in the printed EU, I think it's kind of dumb that LFL doesn't consider it binding on TV or film. Now, it will be. If a second EU reboot is the price we have to pay to finally get a unified multimedia Star Wars canon, I'm totally down with that. The last reboot wasn't that bad. I doubt this one will be either.

[Necron2.0]

My thoughts on the matter are that the fans have been telling ol' George to go "pleasure" himself for years. Now ... they'll just tell it to a mouse.

[eldargal]

Meh, it isn't like they are going to take peoples books away or anything. I'd be more incensed if the EU were better, but it isn't. There are rare gems and I can still appreciate them as stories so whatever. Plus most things won't be retconned out unless they are directly contradicted and even if they are they remain in the SW Legends banner so they can even keep the EU as n AU and keep it going.


However, Lucasfilm did say some elements from the Expanded Universe like certain characters and organisations might make it into future “Star Wars” movies, books, etc.
I would imagine this would include technology like the TIE Defender and anything else that can be seamlessly integrated without explanation. Stories, characters and that sort of thing will be relegated to Legends.

Frankly EU amounted to 'Let's make a handful of white gary stus look awesome while killing off women and alien characters to make it look like they were in danger'. It's representation of women was almost as bad as the original films and everyone knew Chewbacca was going to cop it when they announced a major character was going to die because as a non-speaking alien he was clearly the most expendable. Don't even get me started on the fact that a 70 year old Han Solo was running around like he was still 30, leading commando raids and all sorts of stuff with no explanation.><

Heck maybe this way we will get some villain villains that don't start out promising and are they portrayed so poorly by certain idiot authors that later authors have to say it was an insane clone in order to justify how ****ing atrocious it was. *cough*Ysanne Isard*uncough*

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Meh, no big loss.
But then I'm no starwars neckbeard and I LIKED the startrek re-boot.

[eldargal]

Meh, no big loss.
But then I'm no starwars neckbeard and I LIKED the startrek re-boot.
I like the first one, the second basically had far too many problems with race and female representation. Liked it watching it, the more I started thinking about it after the less I liked it.

[daboarder]

haha, I always thought the second star trek was funny.

That movie was so phoned in....that spock literally PHONES the other spock to figure out how to beat khan....someone on the production team was very self aware there



Frankly EU amounted to 'Let's make a handful of white gary stus look awesome while killing off women and alien characters to make it look like they were in danger'. It's representation of women was almost as bad as the original films and everyone knew Chewbacca was going to cop it when they announced a major character was going to die because as a non-speaking alien he was clearly the most expendable. Don't even get me started on the fact that a 70 year old Han Solo was running around like he was still 30, leading commando raids and all sorts of stuff with no explanation.><


The EU went out of its way to make sure slavery and xenophobia was a MAJOR point of the empire and a basically one of the main reasons for the rebellion in the first place, In big shiny letters time and time and time again.

It wasn't all a subtle attempt by multiple authors to cover their own xenophobic, mysoginistic backsides.

Points off the top of my head,

Admiral ackbars backstory involves his slavery by tarkin.
Grand Admiral thrawn was renowned because he was made a grand admiral IN SPITE of being an alien (as in he was THAT good that the xenophobes thought they may as well promote him)
And the bacta war plot......that whole krytos trap was a thing.


Edit: took some of the edge off what I typed, if its still too confrontational I didnt mean it to be expressly so, merely pointing things out.

[YorkNecromancer]

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” ― Henry Ford

To those arguing against retconning, a simple analogy:

Would 'Batman Begins' have been improved by sticking to Tim Burton's canon? Would we have enjoyed seeing Christian Bale with batnipples fighting a day-glo, more toyetic Joker played by an increasingly sad-looking Jack Nicholson? There are undoubtedly people who think the answer is a yes. Adam West went on record saying he didn't like the new Batman when Tim Burton went all grimdark.

Here's the thing: some retcons are bad. Some retcons are good. The difference is entirely a matter of opinion, but to make a blanket statement that retcons in and of themselves is bad is facile. The only reason to hate retcons in and of themselves is because they mean a whole load of nerd trivia suddenly became irrelevant and the time spent learning it was wasted.

Hate a specific retcon, sure. For my part, Conan-Doyle probably shouldn't have brought Holmes back from the dead; the later stories were never quite as good, and he was clearly doing it for the money. Spider-man's 'One More Day' arc should never have happened, because it used a ham-fisted Diabolus Ex Machina which included all kinds of unfortunate implications about the value of life.

But retcons are just a narrative device, and they're often necessary, because any given work with more than one author is either going to end up with continuity problems over time and increasingly wonky characterisation and themes, or else it's going to end up with poor characters who never really grow and adapt.

Retcons are a tool and hating them is like hating a hammer. Feel free to, but it's just kind of a weird thing to do.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, the things I love about the EU are tech and culture, and ... a very few characters. And honestly even most of the characters I like, I like more in concept than the way they're actually written or the things they actually do.

Also, let's not forget that this is the second time the EU has been rebooted. Does anybody really miss the era of the Marvel comics, or The Splinter of the Mind's Eye, or the Lando Calrissian Adventures (I admit that the Han Solo Adventures were okay)?

And yet, even those were mined for what came after. Multi-phase lightsabers and the E-11 blaster rifle were taken from The Splinter of the Mind's Eye. The entire arc of the Han Solo Adventures was built into Ann Crispin's Han Solo trilogy in flashbacks, and that series also gave us Z-95 Headhunters. Lumiya, from the Marvel comics, was taken for the Darth Caedus arc.

I expect this reboot will be similar. We'll see a lot of tech and cultures ported over, one or two beloved characters will make it at some point in some form, and almost no plot points.

[Anggul]

Why does it matter to anyone what the owners state to be 'canon'? Them saying it is or isn't doesn't change your enjoyment or perception of it.

For example: If GW state that the Dawn of War novels were canon, it doesn't matter because we all know they're a load of crap and won't recognise them as canon because they make no sense.

It's the person's choice what they do and don't acknowledge as making sense or being better in their eyes, it doesn't matter what Disney say.

[Denzark]

to make a blanket statement that retcons in and of themselves is bad is facile.
Retcons are a tool and hating them is like hating a hammer. Feel free to, but it's just kind of a weird thing to do.


Well I guess I'm clearly facile and weird.

The reason I don't like retcons beyond the surface of wasted time, is the whole 'well this arc never happened. Its all one big fuc*ing holdeck episode, it was all in your mind' It is a touch of arrogance. It says that the new creators didn't like what the old creators did. Which is fine and justified sometimes, or often even.

But I detect 'corporatism' when someone says - yeah do you know what, the EU never happened. it isn't Star Wars, but it is 'Star Wars Legends'. WTF. You can have it as a 're-imagining' in some sort of fudged-up multiverse, but what you went from 1995 (Thrawn) until now thinking is canon, ain't.


I can't even begin describe how disappointing it is. I mean, OK. Do what Aliens did. Just smash us in the face with it - Ripley didn't find Newt after years - Newt dies in the escape pod and Ripley jumps off a bridge with a queen bun in the oven.

But don't condescend to the fans by telling them 'yeah, that is just a 'legend'.

[Nabterayl]

Why does it matter to anyone what the owners state to be 'canon'? Them saying it is or isn't doesn't change your enjoyment or perception of it.

For example: If GW state that the Dawn of War novels were canon, it doesn't matter because we all know they're a load of crap and won't recognise them as canon because they make no sense.

It's the person's choice what they do and don't acknowledge as making sense or being better in their eyes, it doesn't matter what Disney say.
This is the second time I've been involved in a major retcon of a sci-fi IP that I was personally, majorly invested in, and I think the differences are instructive. The first was the Earthsiege/Cyberstorm/Starsiege/Tribes universe. I was involved, to a not insignificant degree, in crafting the official lore of that universe in the Tribes era (if anybody remembers the Seventh Firetruce fiction that Sierra put out, I am that Nabterayl). I loved that property to death. But there were a lot of things about it that simply didn't match up with existing lore (e.g., Tribes lore virtually ignored Cyberstorm lore; I could go on for hours), and it was clear that subsequent products (e.g., Tribes: Vengeance) didn't feel beholden to any of the details that Sierra itself had published about the universe. And that was the critical fact. It may be immature, it may be lame, but I think there is something inherent to the fan experience that it is enhanced when the fan feels that the IP owner takes the IP as seriously as the fan does. This was not true of Tribes. I took Tribes way more seriously than Sierra did, way more seriously than Sierra does.

Contrast this with the case of Lucasfilm. Since 2000, Lucasfilm has had a full-time apparatus to make sure that everything Star Wars fits into the N/S/C/T/G Canon hierarchy. The existence of that hierarchy may be kind of bullsh*t, from one point of view, but from another ... what other company does that? What other company has people whose job it is to officially retcon that which needs to be retconned (e.g., the existence of the "A-wing" in X-Wing the computer game), or to fill in details like the official gender of the Jedi Exile from Knights of the Old Republic II (female), or to sit down with authors before they start writing their novels - before each new multi-novel story arc - to decide where they want the story to go, and who know where it can't go based on what's come before? While much of the actual product that came out of this machine was dreck, Lucasfilm is pretty much the only company ever to go to this much trouble. They are their own fans, in a way that no other IP I can think of is, and you can tell because they put in a huge amount of work into curating their canon the same way fans instinctively curate every canon they adopt. They are so much their own fans that they took a basically non-canon character and made her a central figure in a plot arc 24 years after she first appeared. Though fans may disagree with the artistic decisions that Lucasfilm has made over the years, you have to be daft to think that Lucasfilm doesn't take Star Wars as seriously as any fan.

And that's why this feels so serious to some people. We love Star Wars, in not insignificant part, because for once in our lives the IP owner takes our beloved IP just as seriously as we do. For that to suddenly be tarred with the "Some of this is true, but we aren't sure which parts of it, and won't decide until we have to" brush feels, from a certain point of view, like a reversal of that position. Ignoring that which has been published in the past, regardless of how terrible it is, is the exact opposite of treating an IP like a fan. And fans have loved that Lucasfilm has historically treated Star Wars more like a fan than almost any other IP owner. "What do you mean?" they cry out in horror. "I thought you took this stuff seriously!"

Of course, my own personal take is that they do take it seriously. The EU project will continue, except it won't be the "expanded" (i.e., not real) Star Wars universe anymore. It will just be the Star Wars universe. I choose to focus on the fact that they are actually now taking their canon more seriously, by not making the books third-class citizens. The approach is what endears the company to me, not so much the actual content.


I mean, OK. Do what Aliens did. Just smash us in the face with it - Ripley didn't find Newt after years - Newt dies in the escape pod and Ripley jumps off a bridge with a queen bun in the oven.

But don't condescend to the fans by telling them 'yeah, that is just a 'legend'.
How would they do that? Even only the post-Clone Wars EU has plotted out the major galactic events, almost year by year, for something like 130 years after the end of the First Galactic Civil War.

[Denzark]

How would they do that? Even only the post-Clone Wars EU has plotted out the major galactic events, almost year by year, for something like 130 years after the end of the First Galactic Civil War.



I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. They have announced that what we currently know as the EU, will in the future be known as something along the lines of 'Star Wars Legends'.

[Nabterayl]

I'm not sure I understand what you want them to do (to be clear: I'm not asking this in a combative way; I'm just genuinely unclear what your preferred behavior would be). Just collapse the three main canon tiers into one (effectively, elevate C and T canon to the level of G canon), and go from there, implications for future movie projects be damned?

[Denzark]

Mmmm. I think I would rather have them just proceed with the films as they desire and make absolutely no reference to the EU in terms of whether it is canon or not. I always ran under the impression that George Lucas set out 'rules of engagement' for where the story was going and what subjects the books should avoid, so that they would never clash with the films. It would seem this is not the case! They could have told all new stories outside the existing arcs, its not like I trust the creator of Jar-Jar to make a good fist of it.

[Nabterayl]

I think the problem with that is that unlike 40K, which has filled in basically no major events (through the device of saying, "No matter how big an event this may seem, the Imperium is so vast that it's actually just a drop in the bucket!"), the Star Wars EU has set out the major events of the galaxy for a good long while - and they're specifically called the major events of the galaxy (again unlike 40K, which has reserved the luxury of saying, "Oh well sure, it was a crusade involving hundreds of billions of soldiers. But it wasn't a major event."). So if you want to make more movies after Episode VI, you have only two options: make movie adaptations of the books, or tell stories that are not about the major events of the galaxy.

They're clearly planning to do the second, but they also want to be able to tell stories about the major events of the galaxy. And frankly I don't blame them for not wanting to make movie adaptations of the books. Now, under existing canon rules, they could just do whatever they wanted and it would still trump the published EU. So the published EU is on the chopping block either way. That's why I give them credit for restructuring the very rules of their own canon, to eliminate this idea that book canon is a third-class citizen in the canon world.

[Denzark]

I see what you are saying. But are they not saying CURRENT book canon is not only not a third-class citizen - it is not even substantively of this world as it is 'legend'?

[Nabterayl]

I see what you are saying. But are they not saying CURRENT book canon is not only not a third-class citizen - it is not even substantively of this world as it is 'legend'?
Yes, though as I've said, I expect that in practice what that means is that it's on the chopping block for being overwritten - and thus, how certain it is depends directly on how interested Lucasfilm is in revisiting the time period in question. I think we're much more likely to find out that Truce at Bakura never happened than we are to find that there never was such a person as Darth Bane, for instance.

Also, they aren't saying that they're doing away with the idea of an "expanded universe" in the sense of roleplaying games, novels, comics, and videogames. They're doing away with the idea of an "expanded" universe, in the sense that the RPGs, novels, comics, and videogames aren't "real" Star Wars that the TV and film storytellers have to take into account. They're still going to be publishing RPGs, novels, comics, and videogames (which might overwrite current C canon, it's true).

[Kaptain Badrukk]

I see what you are saying. But are they not saying CURRENT book canon is not only not a third-class citizen - it is not even substantively of this world as it is 'legend'?
Essentially they're taking a long hard look at the ginger stepchild of Lucas and an Ewok ,and deciding to crossbreed JJ Abrams and a Wookie instead.
But as a sop they've given Ginger Lucawok a dog house to shelter from the coming storm in.

[Denzark]

Eloquently put... :)

[Psychosplodge]

Nothing new. And quite a wise move.

It gives the overly entitled neckbeards with no movie making experience (and likely no work experience at all) a lot less to whine about, such as the casting choices for characters, how a scene should play out etc.

No, its an appalling move. It's basically saying we were happy to take your time, money and enthusiasm when it suited us, but now you can all **** off while we do whatever we want.

[Nabterayl]

So ... same question, really. What do you think they should do? Just elevate the entire EU to G canon?

[Psychosplodge]

IDK.
Maybe make the EU books into a quality series like GOT, or Band of Brothers or something.
Or make the Thrawn trilogy.

[eldargal]

The EU went out of its way to make sure slavery and xenophobia was a MAJOR point of the empire and a basically one of the main reasons for the rebellion in the first place, In big shiny letters time and time and time again.

It wasn't all a subtle attempt by multiple authors to cover their own xenophobic, mysoginistic backsides.


That has nothing to do with my point though. I'm not talking about in-universe stuff I'm talking about how female characters were treated. There were fewer of them, they mostly had poor characterisation and they had more than their fair share of casualties. They were basically interchangeable cutouts much of the time, and antagonists were worse. You had Isard who started off as an incredibly cunning, existential threat to the New Republic who became a raving loon which was so bad it had to be retconned that she was a clone and the real Isard was still about. Then you had Daala who started off as basically competent but quickly became infamous in the fandom for being utterly, absolutely incompetent and wasting military resources like they were going out of fashion. Contrast to Palleaon who despite doing bloody nothing but stand around oohign and aahing at Thrawn was built into a dignified, respected father figure for the Empire.

The EU had a terrible, terrible record with women. There are exceptions of course like Bria Tharen who had loads of character growth and agency in the Han Solo trilogy and some of the major characters and fan favourites like Leia and Winter were usually depicted well. Though Leia could be a bit of a prop at times. I have much more faith in Disney (if not JJ Abrams) to do it better.

[Nabterayl]

IDK.
Maybe make the EU books into a quality series like GOT, or Band of Brothers or something.
Or make the Thrawn trilogy.
I think the problem with that is that the EU books aren't good enough to support a quality series.

[Psychosplodge]

True of a lot of them.

Maybe something like a Kyp Durron Spin off?
Or A rogue or Wraith squadron one?

[Nabterayl]

So ... I guess my feeling about that is that it's no better than what they already propose to do. If you aren't going to elevate the entire existing EU to G canon and base your film and TV plans off of that (which I think would ultimately result in a lot of mediocre or terrible films and TV shows), then you're cherry picking which parts of the EU to give the "real" imprimatur to and which not, based on whether you think it will make good film or TV. I don't see how that's any better than deciding what would make good film or TV, and cherry picking the parts of the existing EU that are compatible with it to give the "real" imprimatur to, which is what it sounds like they're going to be doing.

[Psychosplodge]

Or they could have done the revolutionary thing and left it the **** alone

[Nabterayl]

Sure, in which case our films would either be terrible, or set like 150 years after Endor.

I'm not blind to the fact that this is a cash grab - they want to make films that people will see, and post-Legacy films or yet more Old Republic prequels probably don't fit that bill. At the same time ... again, look at the last reboot. The EU that most of us grew up with is a lot better than the EU that came before, and why? Not because the authors were any better, but because there was a department at Lucasfilm making sure that the EU was planned and curated. Sure, it was a parallel universe to the movies and the TV show, and sure, most of it was still bad, but they took it seriously and we got a better product than what had come before.

The way I see it, now they're doing the same thing. They're taking it even more seriously, and I don't see any reason to expect that to result in a worse product than what we've already got.

[Psychosplodge]

No by leave it alone, I meant no more new films.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, I suppose. But I have to admit that I am excited to see if they can do it better this time around. I mean, I suppose I have less skin in the game since my favorite part of the EU has already been quasi-retconned out of existence, but I keep thinking back to the previous EU and thinking, "Man, wouldn't it have sucked if they had never quashed that stuff in the name of leaving established canon alone?"

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Do you mean retconning or this info - I haven't seen it before... as to the neckbeards - if you keep sitting on that fence MM, you'll get splinters in the botty...


He'd be the perfect Dark Angel.

[Arkhan Land]

Im going to go read through Tales Of the Bounty Hunters today, **** disney

[Psychosplodge]

I know I still have the issues over Fett not being the who he was and the hatchet job of them trying to straighten that out.
But the EU for me only runs from the Crispen Solo books onwards...
I suppose I'll watch them when they get on tv so i'm not paying for it.

The short story compilation? Is that the one that has Fett and Solo facing off as old men?

[Nabterayl]

I know I still have the issues over Fett not being the who he was and the hatchet job of them trying to straighten that out.
But the EU for me only runs from the Crispen Solo books onwards...
I mean, I think that's a real problem they have. I'm pretty sure most fans are like you and me - we have a part of the EU that we actually care about and either think is good or are willing to forgive for other reasons, and we think the rest of it ranges from mediocre to an insult to the very memory of Star Wars. Given that, I really don't blame them declining to just set the whole thing in stone. They have a chance to finally make the EU real, and I can totally get why they'd look at the whole thing and say, "... you know what, guys? Maybe ... maybe we don't want to use our set-in-stone spell on this."

[Psychosplodge]

But you know they're going to release new books, and still use the ABY dating system

[Nabterayl]

Well yeah, of course. Which makes me feel great. I mean, as I said - there are pretty much no EU plot points or characters that I am attached to, and I think those are the most likely things to get axed. I wouldn't mind Mara Jade getting Lumiya'd, of course, but pretty much everything else can go as far as I'm concerned The rest of it - the tech, the dating systems, the astrography, even the cultures - I imagine are going to stay pretty much as they are.

[NockerGeek]

I love Star Wars, although I've never gotten too deeply into the EU novels/comics. Loved the West End Games d6 RPG materials, though, as well as the X-Wing/TIE Fighter games. While I can understand why people are upset by this move, and even though I had my own bits of raging against things Lucas changed in the god-awful prequels (still mad that Bevel Lemelisk got replaced with Geonosian engineers *hugs his copy of the Death Star Technical Manual*), I understand how this can be good for the future writers to clean house and create a fixed baseline for what is and isn't canon; it also doesn't prevent writers from taking "Legends" content and working it into the new canon.

As for me, I have one hope for all of this, something that might actually get me checking out the new EU canon materials - stop having the entire galaxy constantly revolve around the Skywalker clan. Having some focus on them? Sure. But seriously, it seems like every important event in the galaxy involves Luke and Leia and their respective spawn, even going to the Star Wars Legacy comics set a century later. It's a huge galaxy - tell other peoples' stories already!

[Nabterayl]

as for me, i have one hope for all of this, something that might actually get me checking out the new eu canon materials - stop having the entire galaxy constantly revolve around the skywalker clan. Having some focus on them? Sure. But seriously, it seems like every important event in the galaxy involves luke and leia and their respective spawn, even going to the star wars legacy comics set a century later. It's a huge galaxy - tell other peoples' stories already!
qft.

[daboarder]

That has nothing to do with my point though. I'm not talking about in-universe stuff I'm talking about how female characters were treated. There were fewer of them, they mostly had poor characterisation and they had more than their fair share of casualties. They were basically interchangeable cutouts much of the time, and antagonists were worse. You had Isard who started off as an incredibly cunning, existential threat to the New Republic who became a raving loon which was so bad it had to be retconned that she was a clone and the real Isard was still about. Then you had Daala who started off as basically competent but quickly became infamous in the fandom for being utterly, absolutely incompetent and wasting military resources like they were going out of fashion. Contrast to Palleaon who despite doing bloody nothing but stand around oohign and aahing at Thrawn was built into a dignified, respected father figure for the Empire.

The EU had a terrible, terrible record with women. There are exceptions of course like Bria Tharen who had loads of character growth and agency in the Han Solo trilogy and some of the major characters and fan favourites like Leia and Winter were usually depicted well. Though Leia could be a bit of a prop at times. I have much more faith in Disney (if not JJ Abrams) to do it better.

honestly thats the most conspiratorially, tin foil hat junk I've read. You picked out either

1) bad writing
2) 2 dimensional characters
3) character you just dont like

And are arguing that its a conspiracy against women.....

Did it ever occur to you that its just bad writing and 2 dimensional characters? I mean you make no mention as the others do that the whole galaxy revolves around the skywalkers. You ignore that whoever the protagonist is they have roughly a 50/50 chance of becoming a jedi at some point, and you seem surprised when bad things happen to the bad guy....

look at it form the other side.

Does the character kell tainer mean that the books are inherently mysandrist?

At least you dropped the xenophobia

[Psychosplodge]

Well yeah, of course. Which makes me feel great. I mean, as I said - there are pretty much no EU plot points or characters that I am attached to, and I think those are the most likely things to get axed. I wouldn't mind Mara Jade getting Lumiya'd, of course, but pretty much everything else can go as far as I'm concerned The rest of it - the tech, the dating systems, the astrography, even the cultures - I imagine are going to stay pretty much as they are.

I meant though what will happen if you're talking about x event 10 years ABY. DO you mean from the books? The films? the no doubt new books that will accompany the films? They've literally killed it for me. On the plus side I suppose I now know more or less exactly how much shelf space my books need as I doubt there'll be owt to add to it anymore.


(still mad that Bevel Lemelisk got replaced with Geonosian engineers *hugs his copy of the Death Star Technical Manual*),


I didn't even notice that had happened, is that in the prequels or prequel related books?

[daboarder]

huh, so thats the schmuck that left the exhaust port straight as an arrow

[eldargal]

honestly thats the most conspiratorially, tin foil hat junk I've read. You picked out either

1) bad writing
2) 2 dimensional characters
3) character you just dont like

And are arguing that its a conspiracy against women.....

Did it ever occur to you that its just bad writing and 2 dimensional characters? I mean you make no mention as the others do that the whole galaxy revolves around the skywalkers. You ignore that whoever the protagonist is they have roughly a 50/50 chance of becoming a jedi at some point, and you seem surprised when bad things happen to the bad guy....

look at it form the other side.

Does the character kell tainer mean that the books are inherently mysandrist?

At least you dropped the xenophobia
There is nothing conspiratorial about it. Most writers were male, most male writers prioritise male characters without realising it, the result is fewer and less well developed female characters. Some writers bucked the, Ann Crispin and Timothy Zahn for example and some others. It is absolutely bad writing but when bad writing consistently ruins female characters and not male characters you have to ask why and the answer is male writers prioritising male characters without realising it. It's quite simple really, fewer female characters means less opportunity for well developed characters and a greater impact when they are killed off and/or written badly. It isn't a conspiracy, it is patriarchy. Most men are simply unaware of it.

I also never said anything about xenophobia, I said it was obvious who was going to die of the main cast because alien characters were less priority than human characters. It has nothing to do with real world xenophobia and nothing to do with in universe xenophobia. I mean let's see:

Luke Skywalker
Han Solo
Princess Leia
Chewbacca
Lando Calrissian

Which of these do you really think was going to be in danger? It was obvious, as soon as I heard about one of the main characters being bumped off from one of the con panels I knew it was going to be Chewbacca and the forums and fandom were basically united in that belief. The only people who questioned it were Chewbacca fans, understandably enough.

[Psychosplodge]

Statistically? Lando - only based on every film ever

[eldargal]

Statistically? Lando - only based on every film ever
Too popular.:) Star Wars: the franchise where black men are safe(r) because they have aliens to pick on instead...

[Mr Mystery]

I don't care about retconning. I really, really don't.

What made the original trilogy so good?

1. I was probably about 4 the first time I saw A New Hope.
2. I was completely unaware of further films until my Bro got the disassembled C-3PO for his Birthday, and a friend of the family explained that's from the second film.
3. I had no idea what was going to happen when I first saw each film.

Prequels? Well, we kind of know who Sidious is. We really know what Anakin becomes, and indeed what becomes of the Jedi Order. No real surprises, which is why those that did exist felt a wee bit contrived, even if they're really no worse than Luke and Leia being bro and sis etc.

Now, the sequel trilogy? No idea where they're going with it. Nobody does. Fresh pastures. This allows for decent cliff hangers. Remember the first time you saw ESB? How awesome was that ending? The good guys spent that entire film getting their collective heads kicked in, and Han may well be dead. We can get that this time around, or something like it.

[Psychosplodge]

No, we know the first film will kill off Han Solo.

[Mr Mystery]

Says who? Internet Orang-Utan Big Fat Harry Knowles types?

Or are you being silly?

[eldargal]

I'm still hoping we will see Boba Fett remove his helmet to reveal Meryl Streep with a big scar over one eye... Or Helen Mirren, whatevs.

[Psychosplodge]

Says who? Internet Orang-Utan Big Fat Harry Knowles types?

Or are you being silly?


It was reported as a condition of Harrison Ford signing up for the film?

[Mr Mystery]

Aye right it was.

[Psychosplodge]

Aye right it was.

Sarcasm?
I'm pretty sure I saw it somewhere semi-reputable.

[Mr Mystery]

No winged simians have erupted from my colon as yet.....

[Psychosplodge]

Simians? not porcines?

[Mr Mystery]

It is normally a variety of airborne chimp.

[Denzark]

It might have been a Kowakian Monkey Lizard. But now the EU has been kiboshed we'll never know what one of those actually is.

[Mr Mystery]

Except for Salacious Crumb.

[Denzark]

Yeah but I think that only comes out in the EU books - what Salacious Crumb is. Now he'll just be a relic from when effects of aliens from non-specified breeds and worlds were done with latex not CGI.

[eldargal]

Yeah but I think that only comes out in the EU books - what Salacious Crumb is. Now he'll just be a relic from when effects of aliens from non-specified breeds and worlds were done with latex not CGI.

Not necessarily, it is implied that it is mostly stories and characters that will be retconned. Other elements such as technology and most species will probably remain unchanged. It is inconceivable that twi'leks would cease to be twi'leks, for example, despite that term not being used in the films.

[Psychosplodge]

Not his point.
I think what 'Zark is getting at is that you only learned what type of creature salicious crumb was if you read the EU books.
If you just watched the films it was just an alien.

[eldargal]

Ohh right, yes. The same with twi'leks and togruta I think. No reason to assume they will cease to be kowakian thingamies, twi'leks or togruta because of it though.

[Denzark]

Psycho gets me (I am not hugely clear today) - I hope the authors in the future use the technology/xenology if not the story arcs. But my precise problem with this grand retconning is that the first one to write on the subject could (unlikely but could) just say 'Yeah I decided Twilek is just a name for a sect of pleasure girls/dancers. No one needs to know what race they are - I kept the name as a HOMAGE' or something equally fatuous.

[eldargal]

Actually I forgot twi'leks are named in the Clone Wars teevee show which is canon. But the issue with other species and whatnot remains. Togruta were too I think.>< Don't mind me, terrible memory... I wonder what type of canon STar Wars The Old Republic is.

[Mr Mystery]

Howitzer I'd imagine.

[eldargal]

Hur.:p

[Nabterayl]

Psycho gets me (I am not hugely clear today) - I hope the authors in the future use the technology/xenology if not the story arcs. But my precise problem with this grand retconning is that the first one to write on the subject could (unlikely but could) just say 'Yeah I decided Twilek is just a name for a sect of pleasure girls/dancers. No one needs to know what race they are - I kept the name as a HOMAGE' or something equally fatuous.
While this would suck, I don't really think that's going to happen. Think how much of the technology and xenology got brought in from the last grand retcon - almost all of it. And I feel pretty confident that the people in charge of things love the EU.

[NockerGeek]

I didn't even notice that had happened, is that in the prequels or prequel related books?

In the prequels. Near the end of Attack on the Clones, when the clone army shows up and there's the big battle with spider robots and such, Count Dooku is getting ready to make his escape, and the Geonosian leader hands over the plans for their "Ultimate Weapon" so that the Jedi don't discover them - and the holographic display makes it clear it's the Death Star. Dooku makes his escape (after making Anakin stumpy) and hands the plans to Palpatine.

They did some canonical juggling where Tarkin and Lemelisk and such were still involved after the fact, but it annoyed the hell out of me when I saw it in the theater.

[DrLove42]

http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html

Cast for the film has been announced.

IN addition to Ford, Hamill, Fisher, Baker, Daniels and Mayhew....we have

John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, Oscar Isaac, Andy Serkis, Domhnall Gleeson, and Max von Sydow

Besides Serkis and passing on Gleeson, can't say I know any of them

[daboarder]

so, money on serkis playing the new "chewbacca"

[Mr Mystery]

Max Von Sydow......

*flails excitedly*

HAIL MING!

[Mr Mystery]

John Boyega - Attack The Block. Decent actor!

Domnhall Gleeson - One of the Weaselys in Harry Potter

[DrLove42]

so, money on serkis playing the new "chewbacca"

Mayhew is there for Chewie.

Serkis will be Jar Jar Binks son :P

[eldargal]

http://starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-cast-announced.html

Cast for the film has been announced.

IN addition to Ford, Hamill, Fisher, Baker, Daniels and Mayhew....we have

John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, Oscar Isaac, Andy Serkis, Domhnall Gleeson, and Max von Sydow

Besides Serkis and passing on Gleeson, can't say I know any of them
13 main cast, two women and two PoC.><

[Denzark]

What is a PoC?

[daboarder]

Mayhew is there for Chewie.

Serkis will be Jar Jar Binks son :P

Thats what I was referring to

[Nabterayl]

What is a PoC?
Person of color; i.e., a non-white person.

[Psychosplodge]

John Boyega - Attack The Block. Decent actor!

Domnhall Gleeson - One of the Weaselys in Harry Potter

Decent actor and attack the block in the same sentence? :confused:

[eldargal]

So apparently tehre is another castmember yet to be announced (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-episode-vii-casting-699924) and thank god it is a woman. Rumours are it is Lupita Nyongo as Asajj Ventress which would be the greatest thing in the history of ever. Brings the gender ratio from 1-5 to 1-3.6 or 27%.><

[daboarder]

wouldnt she be, you know ancient.....

she is at least as old as obi-wan kenobi would have been

furthermore, that casting choice would be odd for a character that is portrayed with pale skin.

[eldargal]

Depends, not all passing for human species age the same in SW. Having said that I think it is nonsense too, if only because Asajj Ventress is a big fan favourite and everyone wants her in the next film.

Not necessarily, her skin isn't just pale it is grey and Hollywood has a dsiturbing tendency to cast black actors and actresses in roles where their skin gets coloured something else.

[daboarder]

Personally Im almost willing to bet that we'd see a return of the emperor at some point, after all he is the bad guy in all the films.

a female villian would be cool, but I just dont see it happening.

Hell they may lift isard from the books...that would be boss

[eldargal]

Isard would be fantastic, in her first appearances she was every bit as threatening as Thrawn if not as cunning on a tactical level.

[daboarder]

so I've been reading about starwars rebels....

Jedi....

Really....

So its set 5 years before the battle of Yavin....

And has 1 jedi and 1 apprentice....but they insist that they AREN'T going to upstage luke skywalker as the last jedi

So....5 years...not a huge amount of time

[eldargal]

Supposed to be a young Padawan that survived Order 66 though, so not exactly a 'proper' Jedi i thought. I mean a bunch of them survived the purge, Skywalker was never the last Jedi anyway.

[daboarder]

Supposed to be a young Padawan that survived Order 66 though, so not exactly a 'proper' Jedi i thought. I mean a bunch of them survived the purge, Skywalker was never the last Jedi anyway.

yeah a padawan.

Gotta disagree though, skywalker is highlighted specifically as the last jedi, in numerous sources. its just wierd, I dont think the series needs a jedi presence at all. Ideally it should show exactly what the galatcic civilization was like when the jedi were a myth, and the senate was still a thing (as it was only disbanded in ANH)

[eldargal]

A heap of them survived though (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Jedi_Purge#Known_survivors_or_unaccounted_Je di_as_of_the_end_of_the_Purge.3B_1_BBY). Most by pretending not to be Jedi, I guess you could argue Skywalker was the onl one who was trained by a Jedi Master/Knight in an official capacity and had never turned his back on the order like others (Ahsoka Tano and a female Master whose name I forget. Thracia something).

[Psychosplodge]

Someone told me the yesterday the missing Lando is because the young Black actor's character is a result of an affair between Leia and Lando and Han shot him as a result....
I suppose its better than just ignoring him.

[daboarder]

ha so dont buy that.

god it would be just what starwars didnt need, bold and the beautiful style drama

[Psychosplodge]

Starwars does soap opera...

[Gotthammer]

god it would be just what starwars didnt need, bold and the beautiful style drama

You mean like a forbidden love affair, secret children separated at birth, a love triangle between a beautiful rich girl and her two suitors (who are also best friends), a sudden dramatic reveal of parenthood and the long lost siblings reuniting? Nah, Star Wars would be terrible with any of that stuff in ;)



https://31.media.tumblr.com/c4219f2b08d3d767776611e3fbd0efc1/tumblr_n4zddhpQDS1rncd2so1_400.gif

[Mr Mystery]

Someone told me the yesterday the missing Lando is because the young Black actor's character is a result of an affair between Leia and Lando and Han shot him as a result....
I suppose its better than just ignoring him.

There's totally a 'shot first' joke in there. Anyone care to indulge?

[Psychosplodge]

Spoiler (http://tallymarx.tumblr.com/post/84782236037/i-dont-even-know-how-to-properly-respond-to-this)

[daboarder]

aww man, sean bean is going to die again :(

[Psychosplodge]

Shhh it's a secret...

[eldargal]

I just realised, because the Clone Wars teevee series is canon but video games are not, that means Shaak Ti doesn't canonically die on Felucia three years before the battle of Yavin, hurray!
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110917020136/starwars/images/d/de/ShaakTiTCW-SWE.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

Well, it's the first day of filming! And around 19 months until we gets to sees it up on the big screen.

Now, simply question. Who do I have to fellate to get tickets to the premier, because I'm totally willing to take a shot in the mouth for that.

[eldargal]

Personally I think I'll just use money and connections but your plans is legitimate also.

[Psychosplodge]

EG just take Mystery with you so he doesn't end up dead in ditch after trying to acquire tickets ;)

[eldargal]

I will have like 8 little girl cousins I will have to try and find tickets for so Mr M is on his own.:p

Edit: Oh and I guess I should consider getting tickets for the boy cousins too...meh.

[Psychosplodge]

lols

[Mr Mystery]

Personally I think I'll just use money and connections but your plans is legitimate also.

I has money. But not connections (or indeed shame it would appear) :( That is my issue.

[eldargal]

There might be a charity ticket auction or something?

[Mr Mystery]

True enough.

Though like a derpyderpderp, totally forgot I do have a contact of sorts. MrBradysir. Works for Panini, edits Spiderman. Get's press screenings.

He likely can't bag me a ticket directly, but I'm willing to be he'll be more in the loop of where to look than most.

[Gotthammer]

Personally I think I'll just use money and connections but your plans is legitimate also.


Hey ;)

http://24.media.tumblr.com/c272d65c39b0e0baf21fc036ff9fa4ea/tumblr_n1kbsvBcQ21rnptwjo3_250.gif

[eldargal]

You want a ticket also?:p

[Mr Mystery]

Yes would be my guess!

EG, I know it's impressing somewhat, but is there any way that I could blag a tip off if you're able to source them?

Really wanna go to the premiere!

[eldargal]

Can't make any promises but I'll keep it in mind.:)

[Wolfshade]

Do we know if it is being shot in 2D or pointless darknening 3D?

[Psychosplodge]

I would imagine the latter, the fad is still with us unfortunately.

[Mr Mystery]

Do we know if it is being shot in 2D or pointless darknening 3D?

They have cancelled the 3Dification of the others, so you never know.

However, I would like to point out that stuff shot in 3D is much better than stuff converted to 3D. Case in point - Dredd. Truly awesome 3D film.

Might watch it tonight.

[Wolfshade]

Gravity is the only film I have seen where it was better in 3D, the rest, it didn't add to the spectacle.

[Psychosplodge]

All 3D is good for is lowering the image resolution and a migraine.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

All 3D is good for is lowering the image resolution and a migraine.
And jacking up the price, don't forget jacking up the price!

[White Tiger88]

And jacking up the price, don't forget jacking up the price!
Now how cold we forget that?

Also... WTF No thrawn,daala or vong? F-frsking u lucas & Disney

[daboarder]

They have cancelled the 3Dification of the others, so you never know.

However, I would like to point out that stuff shot in 3D is much better than stuff converted to 3D. Case in point - Dredd. Truly awesome 3D film.

Might watch it tonight.


Dredd was cinema genius in itself.

God why do the americans always can great sci-fi?

[Psychosplodge]

And jacking up the price, don't forget jacking up the price!

Oh yeah that too. Its so long since I went to the cinema I forgot they did that.

[Wolfshade]

All 3D is good for is lowering the image resolution and a migraine.

Digitial did enough to lower the quality. Apparently, to get the equivalent colour response you would need a digital 37K compared with the current 4K stuff...

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah but the resolution of 3d is apparently lower than any 2d equivalent film.

[Wolfshade]

Oh yes, but all 3d films are digital, and digital films when compared with 35mm for instance are a tiny fraction of the resolution, so dropping a little from digital 2d to digital 3d isn't that big a loss then compared with analogue film.

[Psychosplodge]

shh you can't dis digital, the techheads will have an angry flashmob

[eldargal]

Now how cold we forget that?

Also... WTF No thrawn,daala or vong? F-frsking u lucas & Disney

They are still there, just as an Alternate Universe instead of an Extended Universe. Good solution really, makes it easier to ignore the whole Vong thing.><

[Mr Mystery]

Godzilla director to tackle Star Wars spin off film (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27533605)

Sounds promising!

[White Tiger88]

They are still there, just as an Alternate Universe instead of an Extended Universe. Good solution really, makes it easier to ignore the whole Vong thing.><

Aw but Jacen Solo owning EVERYONE was awesome..........

Also this should be made cannon well they are at it...


http://youtu.be/Y7CRatBZBaY

[Mr Mystery]

More casting announced! And both ladies.

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/star-wars-episode-vii-adds-lupita-nyongo-gwendoline-christie.html

Brienne............BRIENNE OF DARTH!

[White Tiger88]

More casting announced! And both ladies.

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/star-wars-episode-vii-adds-lupita-nyongo-gwendoline-christie.html

Brienne............BRIENNE OF DARTH!

Well at least we know she will die randomly.........

[Mr Mystery]

We also have pics from the set released or 'leaked' (funny that. Just put 'leaked' on something, and as soon as people have stopped mind-vomiting at the association with Julian 'truth and clarity for all, except for me' Assange, all the Nerds get a boner).

I'm not linking to the or posting because spoliers. But they're out there.

[eldargal]

More casting announced! And both ladies.

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/star-wars-episode-vii-adds-lupita-nyongo-gwendoline-christie.html

Brienne............BRIENNE OF DARTH!
Really happy with that, maybe someone at disney has realised that close to half the SW fandom is girls.

[Mr Mystery]

I've got my digits and appendages crossed we'll run into Ventriss.

[eldargal]

I hope so, hope they keep in mind that she is an anti-hero now and don't making her a villain or bumping her off.><

[Mr Mystery]

I'd quite like her to become more of a hero. After all, she's learned both side of the Force, to one degree or other.

Could be useful to Luke in avoiding the arrogance of the last Jedi council...

[eldargal]

Yup, I mean she has witnessed the fall of both the Jedi Order and the Sith hopefully they won't have her do something stupid like try and re-start the Sith or something.

[Mr Mystery]

Not sure she was that interested in Sith myself.

Certainly knew the odd trick, but Tyranus most certainly left her quite disillusioned!

[eldargal]

I do hope they do something interesting with her. She was failed by the Jedi and betrayed by the Sith while being trained by both so they could do some very interesting thing with her.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

And I feel in time her beef will be more Sith, who utterly manipulated her, then sent her to her death, than the Jedi who merely a bit useless for her.

[bfmusashi]

I kind of hope they give Ventriss something to do. That whole turn with the Night Sisters was a trudge, but her life as a bounty hunter was a pretty rad direction. Still hoping for Asoka to turn up and tell the little Skywalkers "Hey, I knew your pop-pop!"

[eldargal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeT0CCQ1yqo

[eldargal]

Bullied girl gets gifted Stormtrooper armour: (http://www.chicagonow.com/portrait-of-an-adoption/2014/06/arent-you-a-little-short-to-be-a-stormtrooper-the-passing-of-the-armor-to-a-bullied-little-girl/)
http://www.chicagonow.com/portrait-of-an-adoption/files/2014/06/Allison-8-e1402949328799.jpg

Allison used to love to go to school. But two years ago, when her big sister moved on from elementary school to junior high, Allison found herself alone when she became the target of relentless bullying.

Allison is eleven years old. She loves Spiderman and Star Wars. The other kids mock her for carrying a Spiderman lunch box. Allison is taunted, ostracized, and even physically attacked by her peers.

[Mr Mystery]

That's pretty awesome. Good on whoever was responsible for that.

Always like to see someone helping those affected by bullying.

[Gotthammer]

That's really cool :)

[Mr Mystery]

]Oooh, shiny! (https://forbiddenplanet.com/121792-star-wars-lego-the-ghost/)

https://dyn0.media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/121792.jpg.size-600_maxheight-600_square-true.jpg

[DarkLink]

So there's a trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLyNMSkTiGg

[Mr Mystery]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75847000/jpg/_75847962_bigpic_lego.jpg

That's cool that!

[Mr Mystery]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg5YN3LAGw4

Yay!

[eldargal]

First Star Wars trailer to pass the Bechdel test...

[Mr Mystery]

I think Guardians does too!

[Mr Mystery]

http://www.thewolfpackpodcast.com/uploads/3/2/1/7/32178979/9442710_orig.jpg

*sounds the Eldargal whistle*

[Wolfshade]

Thes aren't the action figures you are looking for

[eldargal]

Yay! Can't think of the last time we got all the female characters (when there has been more than one) in a teevee show maincast in the same wave.

[Mr Mystery]

A Twi-Lek and someone in a Mandalorian helmet no less!

[eldargal]

Trying to think of the last sensibly dressed female twi'lek figure we got and I'm not sure there was one, ever. This is because Clone Wars had a huge female following by the way, and the creators of the show actually listened to them. The ysaid they would do better with female representation in the show from the start this time and they have done so, and clearly teh toy company is paying attention as well.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Always nice to see diversity.

Especially in Star Wars. After all, The Cantina Scene from A New Hope show a species diverse Galaxy, without them just being obvious 'bloke with ridges #354' ala Star Trek. So to not follow that up with gender diversity does seem odd (though given when it was made, not unexpected. Plus, Leia was pretty groundbreaking).

Just need them to continue to remember this. And it seems they have - Gwendoline Christie's role was apparently written for a guy, then Gender swapped by JJ Abrams!

[bfmusashi]

So, we're not going to be all cynical and assume these ladies will suffer the same fate as Young Justice Artemis?

[eldargal]

Not announced until wave 4 and then cancelled? This is wave 1 so hopefully not.:)

[Wildeybeast]

Trying to think of the last sensibly dressed female twi'lek figure we got and I'm not sure there was one, ever. This is because Clone Wars had a huge female following by the way, and the creators of the show actually listened to them. The ysaid they would do better with female representation in the show from the start this time and they have done so, and clearly teh toy company is paying attention as well.

Mission (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mission_Vao).

[eldargal]

She didn't get an action figure though, did she?

[bfmusashi]

Well, Artemis was Mattel, and this is Hasbro, so I guess the more appropriate 'we ain't getting no girl toys' response is they'll be delayed six months :)

[Psychosplodge]

Anyone see Mark Hamill's Kenobi style contractually obligated beard this morning?

[Mr Mystery]

Yep.

Kind of suits him!

[eldargal]

http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/07/B0572T050_DAD_SWHeroMillenniumFalcon_life42.jpg
http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/07/B0572T050_DAD_SWHeroMillenniumFalcon_life32.jpg
So going to get one of these even without interior detail. Some washes and paint a few bits maybe and it would make a great prop.

[Mr Mystery]

It has no interior detail? No point in owning it then....

Though I understand Hasbro aren't getting the license for the new films....

[eldargal]

Good prop though, the similar sized kit with interior detail costs like 4 times as much.

[Mr Mystery]

I guess.

Just a bit baffled why no interior detailing.

[eldargal]

Expense. It's just a big piece of moulded plastic, to add interior detail would cost a lot more and as a result would drive the price up a lot.

[Mr Mystery]

Timeline is being tweaked, and simplified (http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2014/08/report-star-wars-timeline-system.html)

BBY/ABY has been ditched, instead with Year Zero kicking off with the blockade of Naboo.

Which makes a certain amount of sense, as that's the earliest proper proper canon now, and also the first time we encounter old Whiney McBowlcut.

[Caitsidhe]

The new Star Wars stuff couldn't possibly suck as bad at the last three films. It has nowhere to go but up so I'm willing to wait and see.

[Mr Mystery]

Biggest difference?

We're potentially in for more 'I am your father' and 'you are my sister' moments. Prequels by and large couldn't have that, as we kind of already knew most of it. Some of the general fleshing out, like Palpatines machiavellian schemes was excellent, others (no Whiney McBowlcut, you didn't invent C-3PO) were bollocks.

Plus, II and III are often unfairly knocked. II in particular, god awful acting from the two main characters aside, was a satisfying enough film. I mean, mass Jedi combat. Who doesn't like that!

[Tyrendian]

Plus, II and III are often unfairly knocked. II in particular, god awful acting from the two main characters aside, was a satisfying enough film. I mean, mass Jedi combat. Who doesn't like that!

yeah I'm almost tempted to say those were at least decent films as long as no one was required to do any serious acting - the action sequences weren't bad at all (especially Yoda ping-ponging about was fun to watch)

[Mr Mystery]

Ahh, Yoda and his dole fiddle.

Walks with a cane.

Soon as no one else is about, dole pole down, and makes like Flubber.

Bad guy legs it. Friendlies incoming. Legs suddenly giving him gyp again!

[eldargal]

Calendar simplification makes sense especially now that everything post Battle of Endor is an AU rather than EU. Not sure it will catch on for the EU/AU stuff as it has been tried and BBY/ABY thinking is quite hard to break.

There are rumours there will be a scale, interior detail toy of the SW:Rebels ship released too so yay.

[Mr Mystery]

Huzzah!

Wonder if we'll get an X-Wing version? That'd be acecakes that.

[eldargal]

I hope so, FFG seem very quick on the uptake so cashing on on Rebels might be something they would do.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup. Plus, it's a sort of mid-sized ship so far as I can see, so possibly a new class to boot.

[eldargal]

It's a bit bigger than the Falcon/YT-1300. same width roughly but the Ghost/VCX-100 is ten meters longer.

Also another bit of kudos to SW Rebels, the governor of the world the series is set on is a woman.

[Mr Mystery]

I thought it looked smaller. Ah well!

Just went to Google it, and Bing threw up an adult content warning on VCX-100 alone! Eeep!

[eldargal]

Lol, weird. Here is the Wookieepedia page (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ghost_(starship)). I don't want to know why that would trigger an adult content warning>< You may be thinking of the YT-2000 light freighter which looks similar to the VCX-100 but is in fact smaller than the Falcon:
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090826000658/starwars/images/a/ad/YT-2000_SotG.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

I was just going off the pics. Somehow seems smaller than it is.

I r excite anyways. Rebels looks promising, and (I've not seen Lost Tale yet, so please no spoilers!) I really, really hope Ahsoka and Ventriss show up in it. I would love them to team up as bad *** bounty hunter types. It would be acecakes!

[eldargal]

I ship Ahsoka and Ventress.:p

I'm really looking forward to it too, hour long first episode airs in October.

[Mr Mystery]

I really hope it's up to Clone Wars scratch. I know the voice acting could on occasion be naff, but the plots were fun, and engaging (especially Season 5. That was really brilliant).

[eldargal]

Apparently people who have seen an extended preview of the first episode saif the voice acting was a bit stiff on a couple of characters at times but otherwise excellent and it is really, really beautiful.

[Mr Mystery]

Odd voice artist I can deal with.

It's when it's the majority of the cast, such as many anime dubs that I give up.

[Denzark]

Lol, weird. Here is the Wookieepedia page (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ghost_(starship)). I don't want to know why that would trigger an adult content warning>< You may be thinking of the YT-2000 light freighter which looks similar to the VCX-100 but is in fact smaller than the Falcon:
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090826000658/starwars/images/a/ad/YT-2000_SotG.jpg

This looks like the Azameen family freighter from Xwing alliance...

[Mr Mystery]

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060524002454/starwars/images/1/15/Ewok005.jpg

Never forget the Towani family!

[Denzark]

Oh my giddy aunt.

[Mr Mystery]

Always go with your childhood opinion. I really liked, and indeed still like, the Ewok movies. They were fun, and good fare for plonking me and my Bro in front of to make us sit still for an hour and a half :)

No they're not fantastic story telling, yes they're often a bit too cutsey for their own good. But they're decent little adventure movies!

[Houghten]

This looks like the Azameen family freighter from Xwing alliance...

That's no coincidence. The Otana is a YT-2000.

[Denzark]

Aha cheers houghten

[eldargal]

That's no coincidence. The Otana is a YT-2000.

Yup.

Also, **** yes:
http://www.gamewire.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ArmadaBoxLeft.png

Also also, a new extended preview of SW Rebels:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZn_TrwbPN8
Some of the voice acting is a little stilted at times, but then this is the first episode. Sabine sounds find but then she only gets like 2 lines hehe.

[Mr Mystery]

Aargh! My pocket!

[Psychosplodge]

That looks a bit one sided. There's no way a nebulan B and a corellian corvette should be able to take on even the smallest Imperial star destroyer...

[eldargal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgoDwquiwRM
Hera is the best(est)
Chopper is adawble. Like so adawble I can't even.
The other chap is fine.

[bfmusashi]

That looks a bit one sided. There's no way a nebulan B and a corellian corvette should be able to take on even the smallest Imperial star destroyer...

I'm sure there's a B-wing in there somewhere :)

[Mr Mystery]

I'm sure there's a B-wing in there somewhere :)

Plus, X-Wings carry torpedoes. Use the cruisers to knack off it's shield, and then coup de grace TO THE FACE with a bunch of Proton Torpedoes :)

[eldargal]

The Victory still carries TIE squadrons that can defend it from torpedo attack though.

God I'm so excited for Star Wars Rebels.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm just excited for moar and moar and moar Star Wars. Absolutely loving being a Nerd right now, and I'm love it pretty hard most of the time anyways!

[eldargal]

I just hope Disney realise they can't just sell SW to boys because a huge portion of the fanbase are women. They are doing better with women than Marvel are with their films really and toys too but I worry they will **** it up somehow.><

[Mr Mystery]

Going on Rebels, and it's decent female representation? I'd say it's looking good.

Plus, there is that rumour that Gwendoline Christie's character was gender switched by the senior production staff when they realised there weren't enough lasses in the film.

[eldargal]

Yup the EpVII gender ratio was looking quite good last time I checked, like over 40%.

SW rebels is looking reasonably good. Three guys, two women and a droid. Oh and first major retcon, Luminari Unduli survives Order 66 (she isn't shown dying in the films) and is captured by the Empire and the team in Rebels launch a rescue attack, it was in one of the trailers on the Star Wars youtube channel.

[Charistoph]

Oh and first major retcon, Luminari Unduli survives Order 66 (she isn't shown dying in the films) and is captured by the Empire and the team in Rebels launch a rescue attack, it was in one of the trailers on the Star Wars youtube channel.

How is this a retcon if they don't show here dying in the films and then show her being captured later? Sure, the only two Jedi we actually see escape are the ones we see in Empire Strikes Back, but that doesn't mean a few laid really low, either. A lot can happen in the 23-ish years it took for Vader to off himself and Palpatine. The EU had quite a few cases of Luke and company finding either lost Jedi or the remnants of them before they were finally caught.

And also, how "canon" is Unleashed? For a time it was treated like Shadows was.

[eldargal]

She was killed in the comics, which were B-canon, now its in the Legends/EU canon. Now she is shown to explicitly survive Order 66.

Unleashed is also Legends/EU canon I think, not proper canon. Which happily means Shaak Ti is still alive too, worst ****ing thing that game did was sexualise the hell out of her then kill her.

[Charistoph]

Unleashed is also Legends/EU canon I think, not proper canon.

So like Shadows where it was "A-canon", but then was converted to Legends later. Got it.



Which happily means Shaak Ti is still alive too, worst ****ing thing that game did was sexualise the hell out of her then kill her.

Yeah. That was a rough fight. Contrasting that fight with her apprentice later shows how much confidence can help make a woman sexy.

Oddly enough, she was not very sexualized before that. Those brown robes really don't do anything for a woman's figure, but I did find Luminara intriguing. Guess it's the gothic/period style her robes were done in that helped.

[bfmusashi]

How is this a retcon if they don't show here dying in the films and then show her being captured later? Sure, the only two Jedi we actually see escape are the ones we see in Empire Strikes Back, but that doesn't mean a few laid really low, either. A lot can happen in the 23-ish years it took for Vader to off himself and Palpatine. The EU had quite a few cases of Luke and company finding either lost Jedi or the remnants of them before they were finally caught.

And also, how "canon" is Unleashed? For a time it was treated like Shadows was.

She died on panel in a comic book. It was about as canon as anything else in Star Wars, which is to say only until it was inconvenient.

[eldargal]

That was what annoyed me, they abandoned her established look just to sexualise her and then bumped her off for Reasons it was a train wreck. You had Obi Wan weaing the same ****ing robes in the desert for decades but no can't have a woman wearing sensible clothes in a video game, lets put her in something really revealing...

[Mr Mystery]

Wonder if we'll be seeing Lando in the new films.

I hope we do. Could do with more character development!

[bfmusashi]

They could just drop this whole conversation into the movie and I'd be happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMJNQT2w7yc

[Denzark]

I bloody well hope not...

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/leaked-stormtrooper-helmet-designs-allegedly-show-episode-viis-imperial-infantry.html

[Mr Mystery]

I kind of like it.

[bfmusashi]

I want to see the whole outfit before I judge, and I totally see that working in the movie.

[Mr Mystery]

Put my finger on it's appeal.

It's very art deco, a style of which I am a fan!

[eldargal]

Short SW: Rebels clip focusing on Sabine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dSJRKB8x9E

[eldargal]

SW: Rebels premiere dates (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=122034):

Monday, September 29: "Star Wars Rebels: Spark of Rebellion" one-hour movie will be available to verified users on WATCHDisneyXD.com and the WATCH Disney XD app for smartphones and tablets. It will also be available on Disney Channel SVOD.

Friday, October 3: Premiere telecast of the one-hour movie "Star Wars Rebels: Spark of Rebellion" (9:00 p.m., ET/PT) on Disney Channel.

Saturday, October 4: "Star Wars Rebels: Spark of Rebellion" will be available on Disney XD VOD and for purchase through Apple iTunes, Amazon Instant Video and Google Play.

Monday, October 6: "Star Wars Rebels: Spark of Rebellion" (8:00 p.m., ET/PT) premieres on Disney XD.

Monday, October 13: "Star Wars Rebels" (9:00 p.m., ET/PT) series premieres on Disney XD.

Tuesday, October 14: "Star Wars Rebels: Spark of Rebellion" will be available to own on DVD in retailers nationwide. The DVD includes the movie, a free Ghost 3D model ship, four "Star Wars Rebels" shorts, plus a never-before-seen piece that takes you deeper into the world of "Star Wars Rebels" and the upcoming season.

[eldargal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pxyXtBuXHM
New video thingy, plus three 50 second shorts you can see on Star Wars youtube channel as well if you want.

[eldargal]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/f442ebe28376e614bda78d2f60f21373/tumblr_n9iabaEVIh1ti4vuro1_500.png
http://33.media.tumblr.com/d5c462c07c76d2471bd16f6511c321dd/tumblr_n9iabaEVIh1ti4vuro2_500.png
http://33.media.tumblr.com/f32c6e8adbaae51f67a06e5ef5b53b31/tumblr_n9iabaEVIh1ti4vuro3_500.png
http://31.media.tumblr.com/dec10373ff05e42a58bad3f67efe9188/tumblr_n9iabaEVIh1ti4vuro4_500.png

[eldargal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ4ViJOkZTs

[Psychosplodge]

Half a falcon and maybe an e-wing?
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29144135)

[Mr Mystery]

Definitely an X-Wing, not an E-Wing. Dual cannon on each wing just about visible, and nowt over the top of the canopy.

[Psychosplodge]

Looked a bit small for an X-wing. I thought the Ewings third cannon was underslung?

[Mr Mystery]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080621100705/starwars/images/5/5d/E-wing_SotG.jpg

Nope. Also, E-wings dakka isn't mounted on the wing tips.

[Psychosplodge]

I stand corrected.
It still looks narrow for an xwing

[Mr Mystery]

It's the new model, where the wings split along a verital rather than horizontal plane.

[Psychosplodge]

Not seen one of those.

- - - Updated - - -

It could be a Z95

[Mr Mystery]

http://www.starwarshq.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/star-wars-episode-vii-x-wing-700x473.jpg

http://www.seanpaune.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/star-wars-x-wing-episode-vii-2.jpg

There you goes :)

[Psychosplodge]

How weird looking.
And down to two engines?

[eldargal]

This takes me back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z9XTeeA43o

[Mr Mystery]

How weird looking.
And down to two engines?

Those split as well. Looks like, is actually four.

[Mr Mystery]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-giXpJU3DkqY/VBBvtyu9U-I/AAAAAAAAE0o/UJKEE9SCLWE/s1600/BxKVcdBIcAACM6N.jpg%2Blarge.jpg

Another one has surfaced - apparently shot over RAF Greenham Common. I guess they're making good use of existing hangers.

Possibly standing in for Yavin?

[DWest]

I stand corrected.
It still looks narrow for an xwing
It's because the tarp is a lot wider than the actual model, makes the wings look bigger in proportion to the hull.

[Charistoph]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-giXpJU3DkqY/VBBvtyu9U-I/AAAAAAAAE0o/UJKEE9SCLWE/s1600/BxKVcdBIcAACM6N.jpg%2Blarge.jpg

Another one has surfaced - apparently shot over RAF Greenham Common. I guess they're making good use of existing hangers.

Possibly standing in for Yavin?

Maybe, but Yavin was a forest moon like Endor, wasn't it? I'm thinking Dantooine which has settlements more plains-based.

[Psychosplodge]

Another one has surfaced - apparently shot over RAF Greenham Common. I guess they're making good use of existing hangers.

Possibly standing in for Yavin?

They'll have to do a lot of CGI to make it Yavin.


It's because the tarp is a lot wider than the actual model, makes the wings look bigger in proportion to the hull.

Didn't think of that, it makes sense.

[Mr Mystery]

Would it be that much CGI? Mostly just a back drop, which they have certainly used in all six prior movies. Either built on set or added post production.

[Psychosplodge]

There are only three star wars movies ( IV, V, and VI.)

[Mr Mystery]

No, there are eight and well you know it.

Episodes I-VI, and the vastly underrated Ewok movies.

[Psychosplodge]

Sorry I forgot the Ewok movies, loved them as a kid. But I still don't know where you're finding three more?

[eldargal]

Four, there is also:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100610100747/starwars/images/9/91/TCW_soundtrack.jpg
Edit: Oh its the soundtrack poster, grr. Whatevs.

[Psychosplodge]

*snort*

[Mr Mystery]

Sorry I forgot the Ewok movies, loved them as a kid. But I still don't know where you're finding three more?

You know, I kind of want to meet another woman that has a kid or two, just so I can be responsible for showing them Star Wars for the first time.

I've infected one sprog with the Transformers virus (former Boss' son. Was apparently in floods of tears at the death of Optimus Prime!)

[Psychosplodge]

Who wasn't?
You could just spawn yourself :D
Just be less responsible... ;)

[Mr Mystery]

I still struggle to listen to 'The Death of Optimus Prime' when it comes up on my playlist. I totally want that played at my funeral.

And nah, I will remain responsibly irresponsible ta!

[eldargal]

First reviews of Star Wars Rebels are very positive. (http://www.mtv.com/news/1936176/star-wars-rebels-review/)