Unremembered Empire

[Jmaximum]

Most likely spoilers, so read at your own risk.






I am about half way through the book, and still no explanation as to why Curze is pretty much a demon prince trapped on Johnson's ship. there was no transition for this in Vulkan Lives.
And I am really confused as to how Curze is now a prisoner on Johnson's ship, where mere moments ago Vulkan was Curze's prisoner on his ship.

[Lord Asterion]

Most likely spoilers, so read at your own risk.






I am about half way through the book, and still no explanation as to why Curze is pretty much a demon prince trapped on Johnson's ship. there was no transition for this in Vulkan Lives.
And I am really confused as to how Curze is now a prisoner on Johnson's ship, where mere moments ago Vulkan was Curze's prisoner on his ship.


This is covered in some short stories, I felt the same until reading them cleared it up

[Blood Shadow]

Pretty sure it gets covered at some point, DA attack the night Lords kick their arses several times, play cat and mouse, Kurze eventually trapped....kind of the gist I think

[daboarder]

Pretty sure it gets covered at some point, DA attack the night Lords kick their arses several times, play cat and mouse, Kurze eventually trapped....kind of the gist I think

prince of ravens I believe.

Was a bit more surprised that there was no mention of sevatar on unremembered to be honest.

actually vulkan lives prince of ravens and unremembered all have a really skewed time setting, they were released in almost the most backwards order possible.

[Tyrendian]

Prince of Crows is the right name daboarder ;)

[Katharon]

Was a bit more surprised that there was no mention of sevatar on unremembered to be honest.

Actually he is mentioned, though quite literally only briefly. It's a passing sentence that can be easily forgotten for anyone who hasn't read the book recently.

[Lord Asterion]

http://www.blacklibrary.com/our-ranges-horus-heresy.html

This seems new, list of HH Books, Audio dramas and short stories in a rough chronological order!

The afterword of Unremembered Empire mentions all the books it ties in together, i think its a really important part of the series as it sets the stage for the next part of the Heresy, a pivotal moment in the history, you get to know where a lot of people are and what they're going to do, its like Isstvan, the next big marker for the series.

[daboarder]

http://www.blacklibrary.com/our-ranges-horus-heresy.html

This seems new, list of HH Books, Audio dramas and short stories in a rough chronological order!

The afterword of Unremembered Empire mentions all the books it ties in together, i think its a really important part of the series as it sets the stage for the next part of the Heresy, a pivotal moment in the history, you get to know where a lot of people are and what they're going to do, its like Isstvan, the next big marker for the series.

Its also the authors loophole for allowing procrastination.

The "unremembered empire of guilliman" means that they can now right books for an entire period of history that has no cannonical precedence, meaning they can be more flexible about how much and exactly what they add.

still waiting to see if this will be a good thing, or merely a means to milk the story line as much as possible

[Dalleron]

Even given that the list is a "rough guide" to some sort of chronological order to the HH, it seems off to me. Why would you read a book about Lorgar building the Abyss to attack Ultramar without reading why he builds it, something started in The First heretic. And for what it's worth, you could probably read Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons in either order, as they seem to cross over enough to be simultaneous in my eyes.

And I agree, there is stuff missing in Unremembered Empire, but you can gleam it from the internet if you're persistent. The book itself kinda seems out of sorts in the HH. I don't think it offers anything to the plot other than being a great read and possible character development.

[Jmaximum]

Prince of Crows is the right name daboarder ;)


Where can one find this short story?

because it feels like without reading that, the transition from Vulkan Lives to Unremembered makes no sense.

[Lord Asterion]

As long as you accept that the Lion captured Night Haunter at some point (and got rid of one of his close advisors who was in the DA books but doesn't appear in The Unremembered Empire), then you're good to go, but the short stories about the DAs are the best stuff about them in the Heresy Series.

But, Prince of Crows is in Shadows of Treachery, the one where the advisor is gotten rid of is in The Primarchs

[daboarder]

As long as you accept that the Lion captured Night Haunter at some point (and got rid of one of his close advisors who was in the DA books but doesn't appear in The Unremembered Empire), then you're good to go, but the short stories about the DAs are the best stuff about them in the Heresy Series.

But, Prince of Crows is in Shadows of Treachery, the one where the advisor is gotten rid of is in The Primarchs

are you talking about nemiel?

he gets his head knocked off in the primarch anthology....by the lion....for like no reason

edit: ahh right last line

[Dalleron]

Nemiel was basically trying to call the lion for going against the Treaty of Nicea, which the Lion knew. He was busy saving his ship and needed they psychers to do so. Even I was like whaaaaat? when it happened.

[Jmaximum]

I've read The Primarchs and Shadows of treachery, but I don't remember Lion catching Curze. And it feels like that book should have been published between Vulkan and Unremembered.

[daboarder]

I've read The Primarchs and Shadows of treachery, but I don't remember Lion catching Curze. And it feels like that book should have been published between Vulkan and Unremembered.

its not so much captured....

Prince of crows details the end of the thramas crusade where the night haunter becomes separated from his fleet upon the lions flag ship, which then translates into the warp.

Hence the haunter skulking around the ships bowels in UE

[Jmaximum]

I am going to have to reread Prince of Crows, I guess.
But, so far I am enjoying Unremembered.

Up to the part where Curze made planetfall on macragge and is wreaking havoc in the Fortress.

[daboarder]

I am going to have to reread Prince of Crows, I guess.
But, so far I am enjoying Unremembered.

Up to the part where Curze made planetfall on macragge and is wreaking havoc in the Fortress.

There is one just before prince of crows...can never remember which anthology its in, but it is form the DA perspective, it involves sevatar butchering one of their champions and then the lion returning the favour to haunter....

can NEVER remember the damned name of that one

[DWest]

There is one just before prince of crows...can never remember which anthology its in, but it is form the DA perspective, it involves sevatar butchering one of their champions and then the lion returning the favour to haunter....

can NEVER remember the damned name of that one
"Savage Weapons", by ADB, in the Age of Darkness anthology.

[Bob821]

It says in The Unremembered Empire that two years have passed between Vulcan escaping Curze and him turning up. One of those vague time in the 'warp' things.

I got so mad about the way Curze is written in The Unremembered Empire. He seems to have become a total CC and tactical genius while his brothers have all turned in to total spanners who can't even take him down together in a fortress one of them built surrounded by their own legions. And Vulcan finally going mad is total pump as well. Having been tortured for long time my Curze using a prison designed to make Vulkan made he keeps it together until using his own teleportation device. Total pump. One the worst IMO right up there with the total bilge water that was the 'Primarchs' short story collection.

[Jmaximum]

Yeah, I just finished the book.
Very disappointed that Vulkan is inexplicably driven mad when he had escaped Curze and was still sane. If anything, Vulkan was more sane at the end of Vulkan Lives because he won against Curze. I gather suffering through atmospheric reentry probably sucks, but it could not have measured up to the tortures of the mind Curze inflicted on Vulkan.
I too was bothered by Curze being stealthier than Corax, and deadlier than Angron. He seemed written as if he was possessed or turning in to a demon prince, but when he is eventually killed by M'Shen, Curze seems to almost be a sympathetic character. And the coincidence that he ends up back on Macragge after killing the demon Ushpethkar? So then how the heck does that resolve?
Also, why was that demon hunting Damon Pyrantis in the first place? Makes no sense.

And at the end, I really did not like that they leaving it hanging if Vulkan is resurrecting or not. Although, if he does, I wonder if the fulgerite spear in his chest becomes one of the relics used in M40K.

[plawolf]

Yeah, the match up between Cruz and Gulliman+The Lion is just silly. One on one it would have been an even match, two on one it should have been over in moments.

Gulliman nearly getting assassinated by a single squad of Alphas also seems pretty lame.

But the worst thing about UE for me is just what an absolute chump Abnett made Vulcan into.

He is a frigging Primarch for crying out loud, he may be mad, but just look at bloody Argon, being mad doesn't make a Primarch less dangerous, quite the opposite! Yet Vulcan gets killed stupidly easily by just about every character in the book.

Abnett has a great eye for detail, and capturing insight into human nature. But he just doesn't get space marines, never mind primarches.

Abnett should really stick to human characters and leave the space marines and primarches to people like McNeil or ADB.

[T-bud]

And at the end, I really did not like that they leaving it hanging if Vulkan is resurrecting or not. Although, if he does, I wonder if the fulgerite spear in his chest becomes one of the relics used in M40K.

IMO Vulkan will be mortal now, on his last life if you will.

[Jmaximum]

Well, it took the Cabal to put Grammaticus on his last life.
Unless Vulkan can regen after getting shanked with the spear, I think he is done for, although they elude to him having a single heart beat at the end.
I get Guilliman being surprised by the Alpha's: he was already distraught about something, and they were wearing the armor of men he knew and trusted. he knew something was up when he challenged the sergeant about the sword. I just hope that does not imply that character is dead. I liked him the book (forgot the title) where this sergeant set the precedent for painting helmets red for leadership, rather than censure.

[Lord Asterion]

Well, it took the Cabal to put Grammaticus on his last life.
Unless Vulkan can regen after getting shanked with the spear, I think he is done for, although they elude to him having a single heart beat at the end.
I get Guilliman being surprised by the Alpha's: he was already distraught about something, and they were wearing the armor of men he knew and trusted. he knew something was up when he challenged the sergeant about the sword. I just hope that does not imply that character is dead. I liked him the book (forgot the title) where this sergeant set the precedent for painting helmets red for leadership, rather than censure.

Grammaticus isn't a born Perpetual, its only the Cabal that made him one, so they should be able to take that away.

And Guilliman doesn't think like the Alphas, he is still trying to play catch up at that moment, he's on the back foot after the betrayal and Calth, the Alpha squad take advantage of that to try and put him on his guard, to what end, who knows.

[bfmusashi]

Grammaticus isn't a born Perpetual, its only the Cabal that made him one, so they should be able to take that away.

And Guilliman doesn't think like the Alphas, he is still trying to play catch up at that moment, he's on the back foot after the betrayal and Calth, the Alpha squad take advantage of that to try and put him on his guard, to what end, who knows.

I thought he was found by the Cabal after his first death in that Alpha Legion book.

[Katharon]

I thought he was found by the Cabal after his first death in that Alpha Legion book.

He was killed in the run-up to the Unification Wars and the Cabal scooped him up and recruited him, making him a perpetual after the fact.

[bfmusashi]

I was under the impression perpetuals worked like Highlanders, but without the There Can Be Only One. You don't know you are one until you died and I'm a little confused by your comment. How can they make him a perpetual when he's already survived dying?

[AirHorse]

I think he meant he survived dying because the cabal made him a perpetual!