What relics did the new ig get?

[Vangrail]

Wondering what relics the new guard got. If anyone can inform me that would be awesome!

[Chaoschrist]

- The tactical auto-relinquary of Tyberius; any succesfull doubles rolled on Ld for orders makes all orders auto-pass from bearer.
- The laurels of command; codex units within 6" can choose to pass or fail morale
- Kurov's Aquilla; codex units within 6" have prefered enemy. Bearer may re-roll Ld once per turn.
- Blade of Conquest; +1S, AP3, master-crafted, melee
- The Emperor's Benediction; 12", S5, Ap4, Master-crafted precision shot pistol
- The deathmask of Ollanius; 4+ invul, It will not die and Fear.

[lobster-overlord]

And the "Price Tag of WTF!!!!" :-)

[Vangrail]

I like the mask and thats about it lol.

[Lord Krungharr]

The Mask is cool, but I think the Laurels is the best one, it's like Marneus Calgar's rule but very cheap for the effect. So no more running from casualties from shooting, or from assault. Have a Space Marine IC in the squad too and they can't be Sweeping Advanced, so it's like Hit and Run all of the sudden (if they lose combat that is...when have Guardsmen ever lost combat?:p). Of course if they had a blob of 50 with Power Axes, Ministorum Priests, and some good allied characters, they might not lose combat!

[Tyrendian]

Trooper Oll made it in there? nice nod to HH :)
the Aquila doesn't seem half bad either, but that probably fails on the price front I'd guess?

[Anggul]

I like them, they're cool, fluffy and useful I think. I suppose it depends on the points cost, but they sound good.

[Mad Cat]

The problem I see is that company command squads are already a top target for the enemy to shoot. The enemy will slay the warlord, turn off the orders, eliminate attached characters like the master of the fleet, not to mention destroying a BS4 unit with a few plasmas or a lascannon and a regimental standard to keep the chaps happy.

This is all fine and a chimera or camo cloaks + ADL will help, but buying these expensive relics just makes your CCS more of a target and more of a points loss when it dies. I shouldn't expect to get more than 1-2 turns use out of the relics.

[Anggul]

The problem I see is that company command squads are already a top target for the enemy to shoot. The enemy will slay the warlord, turn off the orders, eliminate attached characters like the master of the fleet, not to mention destroying a BS4 unit with a few plasmas or a lascannon and a regimental standard to keep the chaps happy.

This is all fine and a chimera or camo cloaks + ADL will help, but buying these expensive relics just makes your CCS more of a target and more of a points loss when it dies. I shouldn't expect to get more than 1-2 turns use out of the relics.

Yeah, I guess you want to use them as a cheap source of orders that are as well protected as possible.

[daboarder]

The problem I see is that company command squads are already a top target for the enemy to shoot. The enemy will slay the warlord, turn off the orders, eliminate attached characters like the master of the fleet, not to mention destroying a BS4 unit with a few plasmas or a lascannon and a regimental standard to keep the chaps happy.

This is all fine and a chimera or camo cloaks + ADL will help, but buying these expensive relics just makes your CCS more of a target and more of a points loss when it dies. I shouldn't expect to get more than 1-2 turns use out of the relics.

This is why you cant make kitchen sink command squads. if your turning them into buff units then don't give them the plasma guns, spend those points elsewhere so the opponent has to deal with the damage dealers or the buffers but cant do both by killing a single unit.

[Anggul]

This is why you cant make kitchen sink command squads. if your turning them into buff units then don't give them the plasma guns, spend those points elsewhere so the opponent has to deal with the damage dealers or the buffers but cant do both by killing a single unit.

That makes sense, you can either have the kind of commander who stands back, overlooks the battle and directs from afar, or the kind who leads in the fight and gets stuck in blowing stuff up while directing the troops around him.

[crazyredpraetorian]

The deathmask of Ollanius; 4+ invul, It will not die and Fear. + Ogryn! Still way over priced but hilarious.

[Patrick Boyle]

The deathmask of Ollanius; 4+ invul, It will not die and Fear. + Ogryn! Still way over priced but hilarious.

:confused: Ollanius is an Imperial Army trooper who was present at the Emperor's duel with Horus. After Horus mortally wounded the Emperor it was the distraction provided by Ollanius's charge that gave the Emperor his window to kill Horus. He has nothing to do with Ogryns.

[This Dave]

Late to the party but finally got my codex. The Emperor's Benediction bolt pistol seems like a decent buy for a Lord Commissar since it's only 5 points. But since he's an IC and already gets Precision Shots what does having that rule on the weapon do? Or is it just another thing that should have been left off?

[Nabterayl]

Characters don't actually get Precision Shots. What they get is a rule that states "if any of your character's shots roll 6 To Hit, these are Precision Shots" (emphasis added). Thus, you can see that actually having the Precision Shots rule means that every successful hit you make is a Precision Shot.

[This Dave]

Characters don't actually get Precision Shots. What they get is a rule that states "if any of your character's shots roll 6 To Hit, these are Precision Shots" (emphasis added). Thus, you can see that actually having the Precision Shots rule means that every successful hit you make is a Precision Shot.

Damn, that definitely makes it worth the 5 points then. Thanks!

[Blood Shadow]

Am I right in thinking though that the order "Take Aim" only gives precision shot on a 6?

I think it's clear that the relic pistol makes every shot a "precise" shot, unfortunately it's lord commissar only and it replaces his existing bolt pistol. I was kind of hoping to give an IC gunslinger with a plasma pistol too, but that's not possible....hitting precisely with AP2 would be quite useful....but alas no...

[Nabterayl]

Am I right in thinking though that the order "Take Aim" only gives precision shot on a 6?
You are not, actually! As the character rules make clear, a Precision Shot has nothing to do with rolling a 6. A Precision Shot can be allocated to a model of the firing player's choice if it hits at all. Characters have a special rule that makes their 6's to hit Precision Shots, but that rule is not Precision Shot itself.

So Take Aim! makes every successful hit a Precision Shot.

[Blood Shadow]

So Take Aim! makes every successful hit a Precision Shot.

That's quite a crazy order then...do precision shots roll over? So if you allocate say 6 shots the Melta gun guy and 3 to the pf serg do the excess wounds roll over to the squad if they're killed on the first attempt (imagine the serg fails LOS).

[Nabterayl]

It doesn't come up. Allocating and resolving wounds one by one is the default way to handle things. You only use the faster methods when they're identical to the "real" way to resolve wounds. So you would allocate shots one by one to the melta gun guy until he's dead (assuming he's your #1 priority), then one by one to the sergeant until he's dead, and if you weren't going to be allocating any more shots to specific models, you could then roll all remaining saves and kill from the front.

[Gleipnir]

It doesn't come up. Allocating and resolving wounds one by one is the default way to handle things. You only use the faster methods when they're identical to the "real" way to resolve wounds. So you would allocate shots one by one to the melta gun guy until he's dead (assuming he's your #1 priority), then one by one to the sergeant until he's dead, and if you weren't going to be allocating any more shots to specific models, you could then roll all remaining saves and kill from the front.

Yes and no, nothing in the rules for precision shot requires you to allocate them one by one, the firing players simply chooses the model they are allocated to rather than the standard method of allocating, only the existence of mixed saves or a character would require things to be done one by one, which admittedly almost every unit contains at least 1 character

[Nabterayl]

Gleipnir is technically correct about that. The FAQ on using the "mixed saves" rules for characters is sufficient in my mind to demonstrate that the "mixed saves" method is in fact the base method of wound resolution, which I should have mentioned is not something that everybody necessarily agrees with.

[Gleipnir]

Not so much the base method but a method that is kinda forced on you so long as characters are in the unit, realistically the errata that changed it to include characters probably could have been written as units with characters with models in range for Look Out Sir rolls, but I'm sure they just didn't want to complicate it, so stuck with the simplest language.

Good catch on the Take Aim order seriously overpowers things when you can essentially snipe out the nastiest models in a blob, did you see anything in the rules limiting the number of orders that can be issued to one unit?

Example: Get Back in the Fight, followed by one of the other Shooting or Running Orders

[Nabterayl]

Not explicitly. However, the codex does say "Unless an order causes the ordered unit to make a shooting attack or Run, receiving it does not prevent the ordered unit from acting later in that phase," which implies to me that the usual restrictions on how many shooting attacks you can make, and running and shooting, are still in place. In addition, orders specify that they're resolved before any further orders can be given. So while you can theoretically give multiple orders to the same unit, you can't issue "Take Aim!" to the same unit multiple times in the same phase, nor can you issue "Take Aim!" to a unit to give it Precision Shots, and then issue "First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!" so that they get more Precision Shots than usual.

[Gleipnir]

So when the order issued at the start of the Shooting phase says wait for it to be resolved does that refer to the leadership test or when the order says Must shoot or must run you simply resolve the leadership test and use the unit to shoot, run etc, and that is considered to be resolving the order.

[Nabterayl]

So when the order issued at the start of the Shooting phase says wait for it to be resolved
I must not be seeing this. I don't see any orders that aren't resolved immediately. What's the passage you're looking at?

[Blood Shadow]

I think it's pretty clear, you roll to hit wound, work out saves etc...then remove models... then make another order ...and so on...

Whilst it's not 100% clear pretty sure this is what's meant when they say "immediately make a shooting attack"... When it's resolved get on with the next order...

[Gleipnir]

Reason I was asking is I thought allowing a unit to Take aim and ignore cover in one go would be way OP.

I believe the rule line that says

"Unless an order causes the ordered unit to make a shooting attack or Run, receiving it does not prevent the ordered unit from acting later in that phase, whether the order was successful or not."

...means that orders that force you to make a shooting attack or run are resolved immediately in their entirety while orders like Get back in the Fight or in the case of Militarum Tempestus, who has two orders that give Fleet and Crusader respectively they could receive multiple orders only so long as it was one of those.

[Blood Shadow]

I'd say it was a maximum of one order per unit... But your right nothing RAW to stop this

[Nabterayl]

Reason I was asking is I thought allowing a unit to Take aim and ignore cover in one go would be way OP.

I believe the rule line that says

"Unless an order causes the ordered unit to make a shooting attack or Run, receiving it does not prevent the ordered unit from acting later in that phase, whether the order was successful or not."

...means that orders that force you to make a shooting attack or run are resolved immediately in their entirety while orders like Get back in the Fight or in the case of Militarum Tempestus, who has two orders that give Fleet and Crusader respectively they could receive multiple orders only so long as it was one of those.
My bad ... just spotted the following in both the AM and MT codices:

"Orders cannot be issued to embarked units or units that previously received an order that phase (whether or not that order was successful" (emphasis added).

[Gleipnir]

ah that's what I was looking for thanks Nab

Can you tell I just got my book today :)