Starting Necrons and Want Some Advice

[Chapter Master Jake]

Im starting necrons and id like to know what would be a few good choices to add on after my compulsory Lord and two warrior squads. I was thinking of expanding to a trio of wraiths for close combat and a tomb spider for some firepower but im not sure. What is your advice?

[Necron2.0]

Im starting necrons and id like to know what would be a few good choices to add on after my compulsory Lord and two warrior squads. I was thinking of expanding to a trio of wraiths for close combat and a tomb spider for some firepower but im not sure. What is your advice?

My single nashiest unit in my entire army is a vanilla overlord with a full court (five lords and five crypteks), and one of the crypteks upgraded to a Harbinger of Despair with a Veil of Darkness. That's it, no other upgrades. The overlord, the five lords and four of the crypteks carry staves of light ... three shots each (S:5, AP:3), that's 30 shots. They deep strike in and annihilate things.

It is a risky tactic and I would never use them without scarabs for back-up, so if I were you I would forget that and go scarabs. I cannot imagine not having at least two full units of scarabs.

[Chapter Master Jake]

That sounds like Apocalypse stuff, I'm talking about simple, regular games of about 1000 to 1500 points. I need advice on where to go after I get my compulsory HQ and 2 Troops. As I said, I'd like to at least have something that can counter in close combat (Canoptek Wraith squad or a squad of Flayed Ones?) and something dangerous at ranged like a Canoptek Spyder, squad of Deathmarks, or a Destroyer squadron.

I just got my Necrons Codex today and I'm looking through it so I'm definitely not familiar with the new units, but that's why I'm here. :)

[buggle]

I'd recommend getting a triarch stalker and team it with a ghost arc, a full ghost arc firing at the same target as the stalker will get 30 shots short range with 're/rolls.

[Tyrendian]

Wraiths are very decent, but should probably be fielded in packs of six with a Destroyer Lord to take some hits... or maybe Scarabs plus Spyders... and stay away from Flayed Ones, they are seriously bad imo
not sure where you're coming from with the Spyder providing firepower? for that, I'd go with an Annihilation Barge or two, which will also cover you for Anti-Air, more or less... or a couple of Tomb Blades, which have the benefit of mobility but aren't very durable
the full court Necron2.0 mentioned is perfectly fine for a normal game, and hurts quite a bit - but it's 425pts without any kind of durability or melee capacity, hardly any range to compensate for Deep Strike scattering, and will struggle to kill many core units - those often have a 2+ save... fun choice, sure, but a bit expensive for my tastes
The Stalker I haven't tried myself (just too little in the way of firepower it brings itself for the points), but as a force multiplier it's certainly nice, and a Ghost Ark is also always helpful to ferry around and refill your warriors

[Necron2.0]

That sounds like Apocalypse stuff, I'm talking about simple, regular games of about 1000 to 1500 points. I need advice on where to go after I get my compulsory HQ and 2 Troops. As I said, I'd like to at least have something that can counter in close combat (Canoptek Wraith squad or a squad of Flayed Ones?) and something dangerous at ranged like a Canoptek Spyder, squad of Deathmarks, or a Destroyer squadron.

I just got my Necrons Codex today and I'm looking through it so I'm definitely not familiar with the new units, but that's why I'm here. :)

No, I don't play Apocalypse, although most games I play are in the 2000 point range. I would still recommend as many scarabs as you can. They are freakin' nasty for close combat, and are a mobile wall of cover for your troops. Actually, since you haven't really mentioned the quantity of your current selection, my specific advice would be:

1) 1 HQ - any non-named, without upgrades
2) 2x Warriors - FULL units
3) 2x Scarabs - FULL units
4) 2x Triarch Stalkers with twin-linked heavy gauss cannons
5+) Cry "HAVOC" and go nuts

Addenda: Actually, once you get passed the Scarabs it becomes more of a crap-shoot as to what to get next. The Triarch Stalkers I mentioned give you the potential of twin-linking every shot in your army (so you want the biggest mass of regular schmoes you can get prior to getting them), and the heavy gauss cannon option gives them range, so they can stand back from the front lines. However, Ghost Arcs would be useful too, in that they can regenerate your troops back to their full strength rather quickly (bearing in mind, they can still be taken as a "transport" for a 20 Warrior unit, even though the unit itself could not actually be transported by it). I don't have any Annihilation barges in my army, but I do have two Doomsday Arcs (pie plates -o- death). I also have two full units of Wraiths, and am putting together one full unit of Flayed Ones. Flayed Ones won't win you any games, but they are cheap, they can infiltrate, they can deep strike, you can field them in MASSIVE numbers, and they've got a grip-load of melee attacks. They are perfect in objective games.

[Chapter Master Jake]

Wraiths are very decent, but should probably be fielded in packs of six with a Destroyer Lord to take some hits... or maybe Scarabs plus Spyders... and stay away from Flayed Ones, they are seriously bad imo.

I do like the Canoptek units, meaning Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spyders. In particular I like the Wraiths, being so cheap for some decent close combat units. Scarabs I've never seen used so I don't know how well they work but I'll look around at the Spyder/Scarab combo. Could you tell me why you think Flayed Ones are seriously bad? Deep Strike, Infiltrate, up to 20 units in a block with 3 attacks each (that's SIXTY ATTACKS!) at strength 4. That's potentially an entire platoon of guardsman, if they still come in squads of 20, dead 3 times over. I haven't played in years, and this is my first army in 2 or 3 editions so I could be wrong in my excitement, but I've always been a fan of a ton of attacks. (My Chaos army would be remiss without a Khorne Lord at the head with the killy axe of many deaths on a charge in a squad of Berserkers.


Not sure where you're coming from with the Spyder providing firepower? For that I'd go with an Annihilation Barge or two, which will also cover you for Anti-Air, (more or less...) or a couple of Tomb Blades which have the benefit of mobility but aren't very durable.

I saw the twin-linked particle beamer and thought one or 3 Spyders with that would make a pretty tough, balanced firebase for cheap, but I see now they're more a close combat/melee support role. I'm wondering now as I looked in the codex, what is the role difference between Tomb Blades and Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers? Destroyers just seem to be a relic of the past Necron codex now that we have Tomb Blades and Scythes. I could be wrong of course but please enlighten me! The Annihilation Barge looks pretty awesome, but again, it seems the only difference is points cost while it's basically the same role depending on the size of the game/points amount.


the full court Necron2.0 mentioned is perfectly fine for a normal game, and hurts quite a bit - but it's 425pts without any kind of durability or melee capacity, hardly any range to compensate for Deep Strike scattering, and will struggle to kill many core units - those often have a 2+ save... fun choice, sure, but a bit expensive for my tastes

At first I was confused about this but now I see Lords aren't separate from Overlords. I suppose this is the era of the death of "Lieutenants" leading armies. If anything I'll take a couple Crypteks and/or Lords for slightly larger games such as 1500-2000 points. It's interesting to see how they've relegated the old Lords into a command squad type role but can also break away and lead specific squads.


The Stalker I haven't tried myself (just too little in the way of firepower it brings itself for the points), but as a force multiplier it's certainly nice and a Ghost Ark is also always helpful to ferry around and refill your warriors.

I assume you mean the Triarch Stalker? The unit is certainly a large, scary model but it seems to be best served as a support unit in larger games, just like the Scythes. As for the Ghost Ark, would it be worth taking one for every Necron Warrior squad?

[Necron2.0]

I assume you mean the Triarch Stalker? The unit is certainly a large, scary model but it seems to be best served as a support unit in larger games, just like the Scythes. As for the Ghost Ark, would it be worth taking one for every Necron Warrior squad?

I amended my previous post with comments on these (see above).

[Tyrendian]

I do like the Canoptek units, meaning Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spyders. In particular I like the Wraiths, being so cheap for some decent close combat units. Scarabs I've never seen used so I don't know how well they work but I'll look around at the Spyder/Scarab combo. Could you tell me why you think Flayed Ones are seriously bad? Deep Strike, Infiltrate, up to 20 units in a block with 3 attacks each (that's SIXTY ATTACKS!) at strength 4. That's potentially an entire platoon of guardsman, if they still come in squads of 20, dead 3 times over. I haven't played in years, and this is my first army in 2 or 3 editions so I could be wrong in my excitement, but I've always been a fan of a ton of attacks. (My Chaos army would be remiss without a Khorne Lord at the head with the killy axe of many deaths on a charge in a squad of Berserkers.

their main problem for me is their lousy initiative plus lack of mobility beyond Deep Strinking. And when you Deep Strike a 20-cron blob of 4+ Save dudes right in front of your opponent's army, you are just begging for Blasts and Templates - even after you use your run moves to spread out a bit... And each of them will hit as hard as an Ork on the charge, for more than double the cost and you're not even scoring. In a Dark Harvest list (from ForgeWorld IA12) they are at least troops... All in all, you usually have way better options to spend your points on, like Scarabs and Wraiths


I saw the twin-linked particle beamer and thought one or 3 Spyders with that would make a pretty tough, balanced firebase for cheap, but I see now they're more a close combat/melee support role. I'm wondering now as I looked in the codex, what is the role difference between Tomb Blades and Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers? Destroyers just seem to be a relic of the past Necron codex now that we have Tomb Blades and Scythes. I could be wrong of course but please enlighten me! The Annihilation Barge looks pretty awesome, but again, it seems the only difference is points cost while it's basically the same role depending on the size of the game/points amount.

Spyders with particle beamers are quite a decent all-round anchor for your line, since T6 is not all that easy to break in melee while still providing some firepower as an added bonus. If only that bonus wasn't quite so expensive... 225pts for three of those fellas isn't all that cheap sadly...
I'm not really sure myself what the role of Destroyers is supposed to be when compared to Tomb Blades... Blades just seem to do anti-Infantry much better and can still threaten Power Armour... and the Heavy Cannon ones are just way too expensive for what they do, especially because even our basic Troops can trouble a Land Raider, which would be their only selling point...
Night Scythes and Annihilation barges are indeed very similar when it comes to firepower and durability (the latter very much depends on the opponent) - Scythes are much more mobile but can sometimes struggle to fire at the same target more than once, while ABarges have the advantage of actually starting the game on the board...



At first I was confused about this but now I see Lords aren't separate from Overlords. I suppose this is the era of the death of "Lieutenants" leading armies. If anything I'll take a couple Crypteks and/or Lords for slightly larger games such as 1500-2000 points. It's interesting to see how they've relegated the old Lords into a command squad type role but can also break away and lead specific squads.

the Royal Court is indeed quite a fun tool to add to your army, especially the Crypteks, with each of the Harbingers bringing something unique to the table - from cheap almost-Lascannons spread through your squad (Destruction) to very good short range anti-Vehicle (Storm) to teleporting a squad around at will (Despair with Veil of Darkness). The latter is nice both for an actual Royal Court as a unit and for 20-Cron blocks of Warriors - and especially for Deathmarks, since the Harbinger of Despair's staff (can't recall the name) will benefit from the Deathmark's Mark and essentially become a Fleshbane AP2 template


I assume you mean the Triarch Stalker? The unit is certainly a large, scary model but it seems to be best served as a support unit in larger games, just like the Scythes. As for the Ghost Ark, would it be worth taking one for every Necron Warrior squad?

An Ark for each Squad is certainly possible, but can get kinda expensive... I usually have one squad of 10 (or 9 if someone wants to join them) that will actually ride in the Ark, and a larger block that walks/teleports around without an Ark of their own, with the Ark trying to stay near them for repair purposes as long as that's viable/fits my plans

[John Bower]

Night/Doom Scythe too, pretty decent and those 4 t/l S7 shots can bring pain to bear, that's without the death ray if you take the Doom Scythe. And the best bit is you don't need to magnetize it either, the 2 variants both just slot in quite tightly so can pick and choose as you want. Tomb Blades can be pretty good too, fast bikes that punch (in my experience) above their weight. They die fairly quickly but soak up some fire in the meantime.
If you're taking Scarabs (and I 2nd the opinion you should) then take the spider to go with them, she'll generate more as long as she is within 6" of them, and she is an MC which can put some pain down in support of the little guys.

Underwhelming units for me have always been; C'tan shard (always seems to find himself out of the way or shot to bits early on) and the Monolith (it's a bit of a fire magnet and a good marine or Eldar player will shut it down straight off the bat).

[Chapter Master Jake]

So as far as I can see thus far, I'm looking at a mix of troop blocks and Canopteks.

Compulsory: 1 Overlord, 2x Necron Warrior squads with Ghost Arks
Fast Attack: 1 Canoptek Wraith squad (3 or 6 strong), 2 full Canoptek Scarab squads
Heavy Support: 3 Canoptek Spyders, 2 Doomsday Arks
Elites: 1 Triarch Stalker, 2 Deathmark squads (5 strong)

How does that sound for a balanced, "Do all" army? Maybe a Cryptek and a Lord? Perhaps a couple Immortal squads for scoring firepower?

[Tyrendian]

A few more troops certainly wont hurt, and (depending on how common Land Raiders are in your neck of the woods) maybe swap out the DArks for ABarges? The Arks are just too easy to hide from I find, what with zero mobility if you want your one shot to actually be good... the Barges will also provide decent Anti-Air, which you currently are decidedly lacking, and you can include a squad of five Immortals for each Ark you swap out - funny that I only now noticed how the points match up exactly for that...

[Chapter Master Jake]

So, I assume now Doomsday Arks are made more for bigger games with bigger enemy tanks/walkers? It just seems to me with a gun so powerful and things like Baneblades, Land Raiders, Trygons, Stompas, and Wraithknights, that it's seemingly necessary to have such a high strength, low AP beast at your back.

I'll certainly take that advice though with the Annihilation Barges, certainly are cheaper, allowing for MORE UNITS! :D

Also, I'll even take a look-see again at the difference in use between Destroyers and Tomb Blades. At a cursory look at the weapon options and points costs it seems that the Tomb Blades are infantry hunters and the Destroyers are tank hunters, for the fast attack section.

So what should my first opponent be I wonder... Orks, Eldar, Marines, or Army.

[Tyrendian]

So, I assume now Doomsday Arks are made more for bigger games with bigger enemy tanks/walkers? It just seems to me with a gun so powerful and things like Baneblades, Land Raiders, Trygons, Stompas, and Wraithknights, that it's seemingly necessary to have such a high strength, low AP beast at your back.

It can certainly prove useful, if only to deny a part of the table to your opponent because they don't dare to move into its firing arc - but said art is sadly limited by the fact it can't really move and shoot like a Vindicator or even the infamous Riptide can, meaning it's easy to hide from its scary gun (if you play with any kind of decent terrain that is). For that killer gun you might alternatively think about Death Croissants (sorry Doom Scythes) - even better stats on the Death Ray, better at hitting multiple vehicles albeit maybe a little less scary against heavy troops, very nice secondary gun with credible anti-air should you need it, and being a flyer it's mobile as heck and can be hard to deal with. Plus the kit is more or less automatically modular to be used as a Night Scythe whenever you want, which is next to impossible with the Ghost/Doomsday Ark

[Maelstorm]

* Annihilation Barges are the best return on points invested in the codex, and can double as anti-air support.
* 2x Despair-teks attached to 5 Deathmarks in a Night Scythe = Delete key for almost any unit in the game.
* 2x Storm-teks attached to 13 Warriors in a Night Scythe = Delete key for any vehicle in the game
* AV13 wall (Annihilation Barges, Command Barges, Ghost Arks) will make your HQ's and Warriors immune to Strength 4/5/6 weapons (80% of the weapons in the game)
* Destroyer Lord (Toughness 6) attached to Wraiths (Toughness 4) for tanking Strength 8/9/10 hits while Mindshackle scarabs will cause Riptides and Wraithknights to wet themselves
* Overlord on a Command Barge (Fast skimmer) wielding a Warscythe can flip vehicles like pancakes - Add Mindshackle Scarabs to make Riptides and WraithKnights wet themselves.
* Min units of Warriors in a Ghost Ark make great floating bunkers
* Tomb Blades (Jet Bikes) can be fun but suffer with Scout Armor
* A Deep striking Monolith is the only effective way to get a C'tan into close combat.
* The Doom Scythe - Any vehicle that wields a Death Ray has to be fun!
* Destroyers can reliably kill 7 models with a 3+ save every turn - but suffer from being in a unit of 5 models.
* Scarabs - even a unit of 6 will cause your opponent to rearrange their deployment plan to kill them - a great distraction unit
* Doomsday Ark - I've tried 3 in a 1850 list - together they killed a combined 7 troops (scatter). :p Not worth the points at all.
* Canoptek Spyders - 50 points for a Monsterous Creature that makes free 15 point Scarab bases? Why not!
* Resurrection Orbs - Best saved for Warrior mobs larger than 10.
* Triarch Stalker - An expensive way to get the expensive Doomsday Ark to hit anything reliably.
* Wraiths - Always add a Destroyer lord for Preferred Enemy "Everything"
* Flayed Ones - alas, I want them to work and the new models are hideous compared to the metal sculpts - The only way I've made them effective is attaching a Destroyer Lord with an Orb to a unit of 20. They can all Deep strike together with the D-lord out front to tank heavy shots and Look out Sir the rest. The Orb allows 50% of your casualties to get back up!

Hope that helps!

[Chapter Master Jake]

I've never been partial to Destroyer Lords myself just by the oddness of the unit. It's basically a lord with a jump pack, but for an army that's main purpose is foot slogging and flank raiding, it's a bit of an expensive scooty unit. I'd rather just pay the extra points for a Catacomb Command Barge and ripping holes in the enemy with my Overlord's (or Phaeron's) Warscythe or Staff of Light.

On a side note, I do feel like I'm part of a minority who enjoys the idea of Tomb Kings in Space rather than an army of T600's. I do wish at some point that I can find a tactically beneficial way to run a "monsters and chariots" type of Necron army with a mostly mounted force, using Scythes, Arks, Barges, and Tomb Blades on the side, like an ancient egyptian army. The whole visual theme of the Necrons is a mixture of Crop Circle designs, skeleton robots, and ancient egyptian royalty.

So far, I have amended my original goal-list to this. Points value not calculated as of yet.

HQ: Overlord with Hyperphase Sword, Semipiternal Weave (here's to wishing we could give our Overlords Dispersion Shields)

Elites: Lychguard Squad, 10-strong with Hyperphase Swords, Dispersion Shields and Night Scythe (Pricey HQ guard)

Troops: 4 Necron Warrior Squads at 10 strong with 4 Ghost Arks, 2 Immortal Squads at 10-strong and 2 Crypteks with Harbinger of the Storm, Ether Crystals, and Lightning Fields

Fast Attack: Canoptek Wraith Squad at 6-strong with Whip Coils, 2 Canoptek Scarab Squad at 10-strong

Heavy Support: Canoptek Spyder Squad at 3-strong, 2 Annihilation Barges

[Tyrendian]

I've never been partial to Destroyer Lords myself just by the oddness of the unit. It's basically a lord with a jump pack, but for an army that's main purpose is foot slogging and flank raiding, it's a bit of an expensive scooty unit. I'd rather just pay the extra points for a Catacomb Command Barge and ripping holes in the enemy with my Overlord's (or Phaeron's) Warscythe or Staff of Light.

On a side note, I do feel like I'm part of a minority who enjoys the idea of Tomb Kings in Space rather than an army of T600's. I do wish at some point that I can find a tactically beneficial way to run a "monsters and chariots" type of Necron army with a mostly mounted force, using Scythes, Arks, Barges, and Tomb Blades on the side, like an ancient egyptian army. The whole visual theme of the Necrons is a mixture of Crop Circle designs, skeleton robots, and ancient egyptian royalty.

So far, I have amended my original goal-list to this. Points value not calculated as of yet.

HQ: Overlord with Hyperphase Sword, Semipiternal Weave (here's to wishing we could give our Overlords Dispersion Shields)

Elites: Lychguard Squad, 10-strong with Hyperphase Swords, Dispersion Shields and Night Scythe (Pricey HQ guard)

Troops: 4 Necron Warrior Squads at 10 strong with 4 Ghost Arks, 2 Immortal Squads at 10-strong and 2 Crypteks with Harbinger of the Storm, Ether Crystals, and Lightning Fields

Fast Attack: Canoptek Wraith Squad at 6-strong with Whip Coils, 2 Canoptek Scarab Squad at 10-strong

Heavy Support: Canoptek Spyder Squad at 3-strong, 2 Annihilation Barges

mostly solid list, just a few pointers:
the Hyperphase Sword is absolute garbage on an Overlord - there is literally no reason why you'd ever want it instead of a Warscythe
Mindshackle Scarabs are way too good not to take
Lychguard are beyond expensive... that unit there is 550pts without the Lord, which is ridiculous considering its no-more-than-decent offense and no-more-than-good defense
only one of the same Harbinger artifact per Royal Court, which you can only have on of because of only one Overlord
All in all, that list as you've got it there is around 3000pts - way too much for a normal sized game...

[Maelstorm]

mostly solid list, just a few pointers:
the Hyperphase Sword is absolute garbage on an Overlord - there is literally no reason why you'd ever want it instead of a Warscythe
Mindshackle Scarabs are way too good not to take
Lychguard are beyond expensive... that unit there is 550pts without the Lord, which is ridiculous considering its no-more-than-decent offense and no-more-than-good defense
only one of the same Harbinger artifact per Royal Court, which you can only have on of because of only one Overlord
All in all, that list as you've got it there is around 3000pts - way too much for a normal sized game...

I agree with @Tyrendian - Mindshackle Scarabs are way too good not to take, and can prevent your opponent getting Slay the Warlord in CC.

Regarding Lychguard: I've delivered a full unit with a Destroyer Lord (Preferred Enemy "Everything!") via Night Scythe into the enemy lines. They came in Turn 2 and were whittled down to 4 models (including the Destroyer Lord) before they were able to get into CC just 2 inches away. At the end of the first round of CC there were just 2 Lychguard and the Destroyer Lord remaining. For 690 points out of an 1850 list delivered spot-on ready for CC, I would have expected... something, anything!

2 Basic Overlords (toss one with MSS and WS into a Command Barge to eat Riptides/WraithKnights) unlock 2 sets of Crypteks. The multiplying factor of Cypteks cannot be overstated.

Example:
5x Deathmarks and 2x Despair-teks in a Night Scythe are as close to a broken unit as Necrons are going to get (2x AP1 Templates, wounding anything on 2+) . If you're bored and want a short game - take 2 or 3 of this unit (510 or 765 points) and gut the heart out of your opponents forces the turn they come in.

[Tyrendian]

2 Basic Overlords (toss one with MSS and WS into a Command Barge to eat Riptides/WraithKnights) unlock 2 sets of Crypteks. The multiplying factor of Cypteks cannot be overstated.

A basic Overlord doesn't scare a Wraithknight that much tbh, as it's more or less guaranteed to kill you once it passes its MSS test, which it stands a bit less than a 50% chance of doing, and the Lord will struggle to do anything meaningful himself, with even his Warscythe wounding on 5s against 6 wounds. Having a DP with black mace instagib himself is priceless though!

[Maelstorm]

You are correct, the Wraithknight will fail a Mindshackle scarabs test more than 50% of the time.

At Initiative 5 Mindshackle Scarabs cause a Wraithknight will auto-hit itself d3 times and wound on a 2+
At Initiative 2 An Overlord with a Warscythe (4 Attacks on the charge) will hit on a 4+ and wound on a 5+ and has Armourbane, ignoring the Wriathknights 3+ save.

= 2-4 wounds per round on the Wraithknight. It's fun to watch a Wraithknight slap itself around.

A Necron Overlord on a Catacomb Command Barge (AV13 Fast Skimmer) with Mindshackle Scarabs racing 30" on Turn 1 will panic your opponent.

[Dave Mcturk]

i play against necron armies: and they are very solid and nasty until you break them up.

imo the best 'glue' unit that causes multiple threats and holds them together and doesnt just wither and die if it gets caught is the wraith, in 6's with no extras - keep it simple. these things can tie up just about anything and are very manouverable and survivable.§