Death From Below? - Hydra Plastic Kit Review

[Kesher]

It's been a long time coming, but the 'Guard finally have a plastic Hydra model!


http://youtu.be/fl43LgbVHXM

[Ssyrie]

and here I thought they brought back the mole mortar

[Mystery.Shadow]

Hail Hydra!

[MajorWesJanson]

Hail Hydra!

I don't think GW could have picked a better time for the Hydra kit to come out if it tried.

[Tudd Fudders]

Too bad it's probably one of the worst anti-air options now that they nerfed it beyond belief.

Better to just take more Leman Russ Exterminators and just hope for 6 with TL. Atleast it can shoot at ground troops and will survive longer.

Sabre platforms forever otherwise.

[This Dave]

Too bad it's probably one of the worst anti-air options now that they nerfed it beyond belief.

Better to just take more Leman Russ Exterminators and just hope for 6 with TL. Atleast it can shoot at ground troops and will survive longer.

Sabre platforms forever otherwise.

So, other than making it Open Topped what did they nerf on it? From what I've seen it still has exactly the same rules as before.

[Mr Mystery]

Doesn't have the tracky nice thing that it did before.

But still. Tudd is way off. Do I fancy hitting you on a 4+ with re-rolls, or a 6+ with re-rolls. I wonder which is more efficient?? And how survivable does it need to be once all enemy aircraft have been swatted from the skies?

[Gleipnir]

Never been a huge fan of vehicles with Skyfire weapons w/o Interceptor, always feels like you would get a better points investment out of getting another flyer instead or fortification options

[Tudd Fudders]

So, other than making it Open Topped what did they nerf on it? From what I've seen it still has exactly the same rules as before.

They removed the ignore jink saves aswell. Your better off just buying a aegis with a quad gun. To get it to its original state you have to add a enclosed crew compartment for 15 points and it still has no ignore jinks.

Mystery

And yes 6+ reroll is better because the exterminator can be used effectively for ground units and will probably live when the actual flyer comes in.

The hydra will hilariously die to most flyers when they come on now. A smart player would prioritize taking them out or just stay out of their 48in range. The vendetta is still better at AA even with the point increase.

They are terrible at what they do, and if it's not ironic that a dedicated anti air platform doesn't have interceptor I don't know what is.

[Defenestratus]

They are terrible at what they do, and if it's not ironic that a dedicated anti air platform doesn't have interceptor I don't know what is.

Well look at it this way - you could be like the firestorm with its str 6 guns for more than double the price of the hydra AND not be able to get more than 1 per heavy support slot :P

[Tudd Fudders]

Honestly, the reluctance to give interceptor to anyone but Tau freely is really odd.

[DR.V]

The hydra will hilariously die to most flyers when they come on now. A smart player would prioritize taking them out or just stay out of their 48in range. The vendetta is still better at AA even with the point increase.
sorry Tudd I have to point out that the Hydra has a 72in range so it can cover most of the table.

[Garradh]

I'm sticking with an Aegis. I don't think the Hydra is awful, I just think the Aegis is better for the benefits it provides the army as a whole at its cost. If I didn't have an extra 35 points I would play a Hydra. And yes it got nerfed from last edition to this edition, it needed to be.

[Garradh]

it needed to be.

Okay let me elaborate - it needed a change. I would have preferred a price increase over a nerf.

[daboarder]

I think the hydra is fine. Stick it in a hull down position and nab a 4+ cover save.

Im glad they are no longer handing out interceptor like candy. Its a very powerful rule and sticking it on AA that readily outranges most fliers and kills them I one go is far too much.

[Tudd Fudders]

sorry Tudd I have to point out that the Hydra has a 72in range so it can cover most of the table.

Oh looked there, I just figured all autocannons are 48in.

Either way I stand by my opinion that it's terrible. Especially compared to a 50pt lascannon sabre platform with sky fire/interceptor on t7 w2 sv3+ model.

[daboarder]

Oh looked there, I just figured all autocannons are 48in.

Either way I stand by my opinion that it's terrible. Especially compared to a 50pt lascannon sabre platform with sky fire/interceptor on t7 w2 sv3+ model.

you'd have a point if sabre platforms weren't almost universally accepted as pretty much some of the most broken pieces of kit in the game.

[deinol]

Honestly, the reluctance to give interceptor to anyone but Tau freely is really odd.

The problem is tying shooting at ground targets to skyfire + interceptor. That makes them reluctant to make good anti-air guns, because then they are good anti-anything guns as well. I know they were trying to save on special rules, but if groundfire was a separate rule from interceptor, we could at least in theory have some viable anti-air.

[Tudd Fudders]

you'd have a point if sabre platforms weren't almost universally accepted as pretty much some of the most broken pieces of kit in the game.

They are if your opponent just sits there and acts like they are broken. All it takes is someone to figure out they have LD7, can easily wipe out crew by shooting behind the gun, and will lose close combat against even pathfinders that there is a clear counter. Go look at the IG list from LVO, that was super broken and it still lost to some DE Beastmasters.

Forgeworld arguably puts more thought into their rules atleast. Heaven forbid they make a useful unit that has a clear game design behind it and is efficient. The best you can say about the hydra at this point is, "Well atleast I can make a Wyvern instead."

But then you just should get Thudd guns since you will save money at this point...

[Psychosplodge]

I don't like it.
It looks more like a toy than a model. Buts whats worse is the far superior FW one has gone "out of stock" hope it hasn't been discontinued.

[Cadian122]

I don't like it.
It looks more like a toy than a model. Buts whats worse is the far superior FW one has gone "out of stock" hope it hasn't been discontinued.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I rang Forgeworld last night, it's gone gone gone :-(

That being said, I like the current model, not as much as the FW one, but oh well. While I am unhappy at the changes, I still think that it's worth it if you have the heavy support slot free - I have found so far that my opponents are more worried about the vendetta, the Leman Russ tanks and my artillery more than a single hydra in my army.

[Psychosplodge]

I suspected as much :(

[MajorWesJanson]

Sad to see the FW Hydra gone, though not too much lamenting. It was an ancient model, less detailed and harder to build than their more recent stuff. I have one, and it will make a good command tank to lead a squadron of 2 plastic ones.

[Psychosplodge]

But it looked like a proper model and not a toy...

[MajorWesJanson]

But it looked like a proper model and not a toy...

What, just because the plastic one is open topped? The plastic model is quite cool looking, and takes enough design cues from the FW one that they plausibly look like variations on the same STC.

[Psychosplodge]

IDK tbh its just the new style, I'm having the same feeling looking at the riptide, the oversized wraithknight, the teletubby marines.
Maybe its just GW have taken an artistic turn I no longer "get".
The option to buy the FW one would have been nice. Not that it really matters I'm probably never going to expand my guard or ever field it even if I did...

[StingrayP226]

My biggst dissappointment as a new player at the Hydra is that it seems to be undergunned and ill equipted for a Sci Fi ADA vehicle. The Russian Tunguska (several years old tank) looks more capible at ADA work due to the built in radars (yes 2 of them...) and the ZSU-23 seems to be on par if not a little better due to its integrated radar.

Sadly these are not even premier Air Defense tanks... the SA-6 system blows these out of the water!

[This Dave]

My biggst dissappointment as a new player at the Hydra is that it seems to be undergunned and ill equipted for a Sci Fi ADA vehicle. The Russian Tunguska (several years old tank) looks more capible at ADA work due to the built in radars (yes 2 of them...) and the ZSU-23 seems to be on par if not a little better due to its integrated radar.

Sadly these are not even premier Air Defense tanks... the SA-6 system blows these out of the water!

If you want an SA-6 take one of the air defense Manticores from Imperial Armour Aeronautica. It's a mobile SAM launcher.

I can actually see the Guard using something like a Hydra over something high tech and possibly better. Not just the cost to produce but the sheer randomness of the flying threats they have to face. Not just aircraft but living aircraft, winged monsters, and flying tanks. Continuous fire rather than four and done is more useful in a sustained battle without easy resupply. You can reload Hydras from the dozens of Autocannons any Guard army has in it. The missiles might be good for rear area security to keep the REMFs safe but the guns are better front line weapons.

[Lord Asterion]

My biggst dissappointment as a new player at the Hydra is that it seems to be undergunned and ill equipted for a Sci Fi ADA vehicle. The Russian Tunguska (several years old tank) looks more capible at ADA work due to the built in radars (yes 2 of them...) and the ZSU-23 seems to be on par if not a little better due to its integrated radar.

Sadly these are not even premier Air Defense tanks... the SA-6 system blows these out of the water!

This is the best air defense platform available to give to the Astra Militarum, not the best the galaxy has, and the Mechanicum has lost a lot of knowledge over the years, who knows, originallly the Hydra might have been a Clay Pidgeon Shooting machine rather than a frontline weapons platform!

[StingrayP226]

The Tunguska has both the SA-19 and 2 30mm ADA guns... it was first deployed in 1982. These systems are not overly super amazing complex. The SA-19 is radar guided so if you can pick it up on radar she can fire the missile at it. Also as far as guns vs missiles... ya Missiles tend to be longer ranged, more capible, and harder to counter. Flying monsters would lack countermeasures to defeat many of the threats... now locking on might be harder but you have more time because the missile's range.

Also your saying a large empire that knows how to make giant warships and high powered lasers cannot build an ADA tank made by the Russians in 1982?

[Lord Asterion]

The Tunguska has both the SA-19 and 2 30mm ADA guns... it was first deployed in 1982. These systems are not overly super amazing complex. The SA-19 is radar guided so if you can pick it up on radar she can fire the missile at it. Also as far as guns vs missiles... ya Missiles tend to be longer ranged, more capible, and harder to counter. Flying monsters would lack countermeasures to defeat many of the threats... now locking on might be harder but you have more time because the missile's range.

Also your saying a large empire that knows how to make giant warships and high powered lasers cannot build an ADA tank made by the Russians in 1982?

Thats exactly what i'm saying, have you read the fluff? The Leman Russ is a tractor with a big gun bolted on top, the Mechanicum don't make new things and unless they have found the plans for something, they struggle to figure it out. They lost all knowlegde and have been trying to regain it for over 10,000 years, the idea of inventing new things is heretical to the Imperium.

[deinol]

The Imperial Guard are WW2 British Army in Space. If you want a wargame that actually reflects modern warfare, 40k is not the game for you.

Real air support should be so fast that it flies across the battlefield in less than a turn, and would be better represented by orbital bombardment rules.

[Gleipnir]

Yeah I've always thought Flyers in 40K behaved more like Helicopters, in how they move and fight, and not just the Hover variants.

[deinol]

Fun with math.

Let's assume one foot on the game table is equal to 1000 feet on the battlefield. This is way larger than the actual scale of the minis, but let's pretend the game table is much more abstract.
This makes the standard 6 foot game table 1.1 miles wide.
It takes a jet traveling Mach 1 6 seconds to fly over the battlefield.
It takes an F-14 at top speed about 3 second to fly over the battlefield.

The game makes a lot more sense when you realize that a Storm Talon is an attack helicopter.

[Mr Mystery]

Thats exactly what i'm saying, have you read the fluff? The Leman Russ is a tractor with a big gun bolted on top, the Mechanicum don't make new things and unless they have found the plans for something, they struggle to figure it out. They lost all knowlegde and have been trying to regain it for over 10,000 years, the idea of inventing new things is heretical to the Imperium.

Yup. Look at some of the toys the Legions get in Horus Heresy. Mechanicum can kind of ish sort of in a pinch make the odd one or two. And that's at the currently known zenith of their powers and resources.

And even if they do know how to make a SA-randominteger equivalent....it's far from being widespread knowledge. Perhaps a single Forgeworld. Enough to put tasty toys in the hands of....well, it's own forces. And that's about it.

[Lord Asterion]

Fun with math.

Let's assume one foot on the game table is equal to 1000 feet on the battlefield. This is way larger than the actual scale of the minis, but let's pretend the game table is much more abstract.
This makes the standard 6 foot game table 1.1 miles wide.
It takes a jet traveling Mach 1 6 seconds to fly over the battlefield.
It takes an F-14 at top speed about 3 second to fly over the battlefield.

The game makes a lot more sense when you realize that a Storm Talon is an attack helicopter.

A standard game of 40K probably only lasts about 5 minutes in universe, I guess the Flyers are looping and diving and climbing all over the place rather than going in a straight line then!