Question about Terminator bases.

[Israel5236]

Ok so this is my question, if I use the old Terminators on 25mm bases do I have to change them to 40mm because the new ones are on 40mm bases?

From what I read of the rules it sounds like whatever bases came with the model that's what you may use as long you don't change it "Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with plastic bases. If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game. Some players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases. As mounting your models on different sized might affect the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game your opponent does not mind." - Page 3 of the small 40k 5th rulebook.

[DarkLink]

Right, if you've got the old models, don't sweat it too much. Not too big of a deal, unless you're headed off to 'ard Boyz or something, and even then it'd be a matter for the tourney organizers to decide.

[plasticaddict]

In casual play it normaly dosen't matter, but in tournament play it can be an issue if your opponent wants to make it one. Last year at 'Ard Boyz I was informed that all models must be on the correct size base as currently used. Usnig your Terminators as an example, they would have to be on 40mm bases even tough they came with 25mm ones. The same applies to IG heavy weapon teams, if you order a Steel Legion squad the missile team still comes on two 25mm bases and you have to rebase them to 40mm to be "legal". The same applies to putting a model on a larger base than currently used, that is also a no-no.

[Faultie]

Models, as per the rules, use the bases they're supplied with.

If someone wants to do otherwise, that's their own house rules. If it's their house, they can do such, but just know that it is not RAW, but merely their own equivalent of Fandex'ing.

[Lerra]

I would suggest basing them on 40mm bases just to avoid the headache, though. I played with 25mm bases for a while but I got tired of comments like "You only won because you have the wrong base sizes and that terminator squad should not have gotten a cover save," etc.

A cheap and easy solution is to buy some 40mm poker chips, spray them black, and glue the 25mm bases on top of the poker chips.

[plasticaddict]

Models, as per the rules, use the bases they're supplied with.

If someone wants to do otherwise, that's their own house rules. If it's their house, they can do such, but just know that it is not RAW, but merely their own equivalent of Fandex'ing.

No true if GW puts it out as a tournament rule. "bases they are supplied with" can be interpreted to mean, bases they are currently suppiled with.

[Gotthammer]

Funnily enough if you buy the 2nd ed Deathwing metals online they still come with 25mm bases due to being slottas.

If it's a tourney and you fear a hassle just throw some bigger bases and blu-tac in with the rest of your kit.

[BuFFo]

Ok so this is my question, if I use the old Terminators on 25mm bases do I have to change them to 40mm because the new ones are on 40mm bases?

No you don't.

Keep them on the old bases if you wish.

[nojinx]

In casual play it normaly dosen't matter, but in tournament play it can be an issue if your opponent wants to make it one. Last year at 'Ard Boyz I was informed that all models must be on the correct size base as currently used. Usnig your Terminators as an example, they would have to be on 40mm bases even tough they came with 25mm ones. The same applies to IG heavy weapon teams, if you order a Steel Legion squad the missile team still comes on two 25mm bases and you have to rebase them to 40mm to be "legal". The same applies to putting a model on a larger base than currently used, that is also a no-no.

I don't know when it started, but I have been modeling my daemon princes on 60 mm round bases (the same size as my greater daemons - that may be the reason) for some time now. Chaos Daemon Princes come with 40 mm bases (or did the last time I bought one). Do my DPs need to be on 40 mm bases?

Come to think of it, what do I use for chariots in 40K? WFB chariot bases?

[plasticaddict]

You would need to rebase your DPs to be legal in tournament play(unless you have your opponents permision). As for a chariot base, if there isn't a current model produced use your best judgment.

[nojinx]

I am noticing now that the Nurgle DP is shown on a 60 mm base in GW's literature. I thought the box set comes with the smaller size. Can anyone verify?

[Lerra]

Daemon Princes come with a 40mm terminator base, but GW often models them on 60mm bases. The model is too large for a 40mm base, imo. The feet hang over the edge and if you put wings on the model it looks sort of silly on such a small base.

[Faultie]

No[sic] true if GW puts it out as a tournament rule. "bases they are supplied with" can be interpreted to mean, bases they are currently suppiled with.

When I buy/bought a model, it is/was supplied with a base. I'm not playing with *potential* models, I'm playing with actual models. As such, if they come in an unopened GW box/blister and are provided/supplied with bases, those are the bases they are "currently supplied with", not some potential bases that alternative potential models might be equipped with in another unopened box/blister from GW.

If there are models in my army, they "must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game." Which bases? Well, since they're Citadel miniatures, then they "are normally supplied with a plastic base." Done, and done. Changing base size requires opponents consent.

As I mentioned, rules to the contrary are house rules. If you're in someone else's house (i.e., at their tournament), use their rules if you want to lay there. GW doesn't run many tournaments, and many tournaments don't use GW's suggestions/"tournament FAQs"/house rules/etc., so their tourney suggestions are also house rules (like GW's FAQs).

Any money spent converting to medium bases is money spent to cow-tow to someone else's desires, not to follow the rules. Complains might say "just spend the money and there won't be issues." What they mean is "just do what I want, and I'll stop bіtching about it."

[plasticaddict]

When I buy/bought a model, it is/was supplied with a base. I'm not playing with *potential* models, I'm playing with actual models. As such, if they come in an unopened GW box/blister and are provided/supplied with bases, those are the bases they are "currently supplied with", not some potential bases that alternative potential models might be equipped with in another unopened box/blister from GW.

If there are models in my army, they "must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game." Which bases? Well, since they're Citadel miniatures, then they "are normally supplied with a plastic base." Done, and done. Changing base size requires opponents consent.

Your argument is with GW, if they put out a torunament rule that requires a model to be on the "correct" size base and they clarify it to mean "the currently supplied base with new models" then that is the rule regardless of what the rulebook says. Tournament rules are diffenert than normal play rules. In a tournament you are commonly required to have your models painted with three colors and based, there is nothing in the rule book that requires you to have your models paintedand based your models. Casual play is one thing, organized play is something else and the rules are different. I don't particaularly like the rule but I understand it. I am currently in the process of rebasing twenty Steel Legion missile teams for my oldest sons army so there will be no (potental) trouble in the local tournament scene.

[crazyredpraetorian]

No true if GW puts it out as a tournament rule. "bases they are supplied with" can be interpreted to mean, bases they are currently suppiled with.

The problem with that line of thinking is that GW runs very few tournaments, most are independently run and have their own interpretation of the rules.

[plasticaddict]

I am speaking of the RTT and 'Ard Boyz format tournaments. Indy GTs have their own rules but follow a common format.

[Israel5236]

Well thank you all for the feed back but I believe I can use the small ones I knew before I asked but as far as it goes with your local gaming store if they don't have a house rule about it, well than the rule is whatever bases came with THAT model when first bought.

[Conspyre]

While it's true that some Terminators are supplied with 25mm slottabases, it's been the case that Terminators are on 40mm bases since the plastic models were released, at the least (I can't remember if the GK terminators were originally on 40mm, but I think they were). One can make the argument that their models were supplied with 25mm bases, and so they can use them, it's a pretty clear case of modelling for advantage, given that it is much, much easier to successfully Deep Strike a unit on smaller bases. If that's not the reason to keep the smaller bases, then what is it? It takes hardly any time to re-base them properly and avoid the discussion in the first place.

[Lerra]

GW's 40mm bases are expensive. It would have cost me $50 to order 40mm bases for my Deathwing army. Also, if you have nice custom bases that are painted, it can be a lot of time, too. I have my nice custom 25mm bases glued to ugly poker chips right now . . .

I wouldn't call it a case of modelling for advantage if people chose to keep the 25mm bases. Most people run terminators in a land raider and very few use the deep strike rules in 5th ed. Also, it's easier to avoid templates with larger bases, and you can string a unit out farther to hold or contest more objectives.

[plasticaddict]

. Also, it's easier to avoid templates with larger bases, and you can string a unit out farther to hold or contest more objectives.

How do you figure? The larger bases mean each model is easies to hit with a template and if you spread out with 2" between models it's very hard to miss a cluster of Termies with a blast template. By having the models on a smaller base you make it easier to deploy out of a transport as each model needs less space.On smaller basses you make it harder (although not much) for your opponent to get maximum models in BTB for assault. Units of smaller based models can take better advantage of cover. There are many reasons that could be brought up to object to your models not being on the 40mm bases.

As far as cost goes: 10, 40mm plasic bases cost $4.50 from GW; 9, 40mm magnetic bases cost $10.99 or 40+ economy bases for $10.00 from Gale Force 9. It's just not that expensive to put the models on the currently issued size base when you consider how much you have already invested in your army, both cash and time, to eleminate any potential problems.

[BuFFo]

Lerra is correct. The larger the Base size of a unit, the less you get Blasted and Templated.

[plasticaddict]

Lerra is correct. The larger the Base size of a unit, the less you get Blasted and Templated.

Using unit coherency to maximum effect you don't get much of an advantage on base size, however with larger bases your unit covers more area and is easier to hit with blast weapons. If you cluster your models in a deepstrike formation and are hit on the center model everyone is hit if you have 25 or 40mm bases however with a scatter roll you are more likely to still hit part of the unit with 40mm bases because it covers a larger area. That is why proper base size is important and why there are rules to determine what the correct size base is. You can put your models on any size base you want but if you play in a tournamnet be prepared to get called on anything that is not on the "correct" size base. "Correct" being what the tournamnet organizers say it is regardless of your personal opinion. It dosen't matter to me what size base you put your old Terminators on but someone else may not be as easy going and call you on it. Losing a unit out of your list because you don't want to conform to the standard would suck worse than rebasing them will.

[rle68]

exscuse me if GW sells both type of temrinators whos to say which one is right and which one is wrong?

ill be damned ill let some snivelling crotch cricket tell me the models i just bought and painted didnt come on the right bases he might end up with a death wing termy in his nether region

[Faultie]

It dosen't matter to me what size base you put your old Terminators on but someone else may not be as easy going and call you on it. Losing a unit out of your list because you don't want to conform to the standard would suck worse than rebasing them will.
Once again, if someone wants to not play the rules, and wants to fanfic/house rule it, that's fine if you're at their house. However, that has nothing to do with them being "easy going" or calling anybody on anything.

More accurately, some people may complain and you should call them on it. "Conform to the standard" means put them on the bases the rules require. Unless the standard is to break the rules or use houserules, in which case you have the choice of playing in that community or not.

[BuFFo]

It dosen't matter to me what size base you put your old Terminators on but someone else may not be as easy going and call you on it.

Well, that someone needs to learn to read the rules before foolishly putting my Terminators on the spot.


Losing a unit out of your list because you don't want to conform to the standard would suck worse than rebasing them will.

I wouldn't lose a terminator unit because I know how to read rules. That person enforcing house rules on marine players would lose opponents because NO ONE would want to play him.

[plasticaddict]

To Faultie and Buffo: If GW requires it, as they did at 'Ardboyz last year, then it is not a house rule nor is it out of place for your opponent to make you use models that conforms to their standard. I have seen models removed from the table for not meeting WYSIWYG and this falls in the same category. Would you allow your opponent to call a lascannon a missile launcher, or a razorback a rhino? In a frendly game yes, but you can't count on friendly games in tournament play. Calling your opponent on WYSIWYG is your option, one that most of us don't exercise, however it is stilll there and proper basing is part of it.

[Faultie]

To Faultie and Buffo: If GW requires it, as they did at 'Ardboyz last year, then it is not a house rule nor is it out of place for your opponent to make you use models that conforms to their standard. I have seen models removed from the table for not meeting WYSIWYG and this falls in the same category. Would you allow your opponent to call a lascannon a missile launcher, or a razorback a rhino? In a frendly game yes, but you can't count on friendly games in tournament play. Calling your opponent on WYSIWYG is your option, one that most of us don't exercise, however it is stilll there and proper basing is part of it.
You have proven that: Medium Bases are required at 'Ardboyz (which also allows and requires many things that don't conform to standard play, and which GW has even ruled otherwise in Errata and FAQ). Any rules that are contrary to RAW, are House Rules.
Rules as written is still that the supplied base is "proper basing". WYSIWYG has little to do with this (these are seperate rules). GW requiring something at a given tournament is not the official rules, nor are even GW's FAQs, which are 'Studio House Rules' (according to GW, not me). Sorry, but it still doesn't matter about your opponent, it matters about whose House Rules you're using. If you don't want to use house rules, and you play a tournament where they are very RAW-oriented, then either way works, depending on which Terminators.

[plasticaddict]

House rules are what are agreed upon by players, GW determining that for a given event you must meet a standard is not a house rule but it is required, it meets rules as intended not rules as written. Those that believe that rules as written are the only rules and do not allow for common sense to enter the game are the kind of people I avoid playing. Putting your terminators on the current standard base size isn't much to ask and meets rules as intended. As for 'Ardboyz having many different rules I can't agree with that, They may have rules not commonly enforced but they aren't out of the norm.

[Force21]

I think you should just put them on the 40mm bases & then you would have no problems at all...


It is just like Ogryn...they were on the small bases & now they have em on 40mm's.


I think most models that has the Bulky, Terminator Armor, etc. rules are made on the 40mm bases & if they are not then probably next model release they will... so...get some 40mm bases & you will be fine.

[rle68]

i would agree with you on the larger base rule if they didnt keep selling old style termies with smaller bases

i can go to mail order and order right now termies on small slot bases today.. if i buy them and they come supplied with slot bases i paint them and show up would you dare open your mouth and say im cheating?

who is right ? which set is the right set.. ill agree with intent is uniformity the idea was they had to have the size base they cam with in 4th you could go bigger but you couldnt make the bases smaller.. thus we have intent you want to make it a crime to use the bases supplied with ..

plastisaddict
"""As far as cost goes: 10, 40mm plasic bases cost $4.50 from GW; 9, 40mm magnetic bases cost $10.99 or 40+ economy bases for $10.00 from Gale Force 9. It's just not that expensive to put the models on the currently issued size base when you consider how much you have already invested in your army, both cash and time, to eleminate any potential problems. """

this is the stupidest thing i have ever heard as if the models were not expensive enough as it is now you advocate having to spend more money cus the cheap *******s at gw wont repackage the stuff they currently sell.. i say hell no and id tell you take a hike.. if it comes with that base thats the base it goes on period.. you dont like it .. then go home

[plasticaddict]

rle68, I would agree if you were ordering current range product and they came that wa. However ordering collector or classic range products is outside of the current rules and should conform to the newest standard.