Horus Heresy: Actual Game, or Prestige Buy?

[ElectricPaladin]

I've been wondering about this whole "Warhammer 30k" thing, and I realize that it's come down to one big question: is this an actual game that people actually play, or is it basically a prestige buy, something you buy to paint and paint to display and display so people know that you own it?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking the display mini. Sometimes, for some folks, it's worth it to buy a model because the mini is so beautiful that you just have to paint it, and then show it off. That's part of the visual art side of this hobby, and it's fine. I don't mean any disrespect.

But, think about it like this:
• Warhammer 30k has a much smaller following than 40k.
• In any game with a smaller following, arranging games takes a lot of work.
• Any kind of limitation - trying to be fluffy about who fights who, or following a campaign track - adds to the complexity and the difficulty of lining up games. Fighting out the Horus Heresy seems to be a big part of Warhammer 30k.
• We are (mostly) all adults here, and need to balance our playing time with our painting time, and that with our jobs, families, and other hobbies.

All this adds up to a situation where I feel that this is a legit question: is Forgeworld's Horus Heresy series a game that people actually play, or are people acquiring, painting, and modeling up Heresy-era armies for fun and prestige?

My personal experiences tell me nothing. The Heresy series hasn't really caught on where I am - not even as a prestige thing - so I have no data. I am hoping that BoLS's broader community can help to clear this up.

[Charon]

Vote for prestige buy.
While the models are nice and are an optical upgrade to my 40k Word Bearers they are quite expensive and its even more space marines than the regular 40k.

[eldargal]

Can I vote for 'irritating distraction from xenos projects'?:p I think it is a bit of both really, it's a real thing but also even more of a prestige buy than FW stuff is ordinarily.

[Arkhan Land]

Although I do think its wildly overpriced, being a fan of historical battle games I can always appreciate the idea that a contingent meta-verse has previous eras with their own units/dilemas/story, though tbh I kind of woulda wished for something from maybe age of strife, or specifically a pre-heresy crusade, much longer periods of time rife with far fewer fluffy specifics but the HH also deals with the one of the most important turning points for most of the 40k storyline, so why not deal with that.

I think this era is amazing to explore, but truthfully it perhaps could have been wrapped up in a matter of beautiful illustrations only books with some novels too (which came out anyways) and probably provide as much detail on the era without having to buy a bgillion lil resin dudes and their whips, but it is nice to be able to see the jerks in 3d. But this brings us to EP the OPs big final question, does anybody play this?
I dont know, I'm not a store hangout-er but I have never-ever seen a 30k game played but I have seen a lot more outrider sqauds in normal 40k armys , they look beatiful, and Ive even seen some of the "New Old" tanks from the HH series within modern armies, they also look about a dozen times better than the standard kits and its always nice to see some variety.

on that note I dont see myself playing 30k anytime soon, even though I have enough RT raiders and rhinos to paint up in old legion schemes and have built enough plastic mk6s and converted mk4s to do it I see them moreso as being cool additions to the near spiritual devotion to legacy and lasting technology that befits an army fielding weaponry sometimes in excess of 20k years old

[Nogle]

It's started out as PRESTIGE, but has grown. This year is the second year that Adepticon has a 30k tourney. A few of us in Buffalo have started playing and a store in Erie, PA allows 30k in their 40k tournies. The best one has placed so far is 3rd. Right now the list has a hard time with flyers and having all of it's special/heavy weapons concentrated in single squads.

My world eaters were started when the "Schwartz" emperors champ came out 10+ years ago. It's always been a counts as army and now we have rules. The trick is to collect the army with other 40k codex's in mind. Right now I'm working on Sternguard/seekers and some thunderwolves(always wanted some). Also thinking about Berserkers/30k tactical marines with ccw/blood claws

[Vangrail]

I vote prestige buy because the difficulty of actually playing a 30k game. Now personally id love to start an army I would do Iron Hands even though i play sons of medusa in normal 40k. That being said in my store we allow 30k vs 40k just before the game explain units and just have fun with it. Just mainly have to remember 30k squads pack a lot of fire power.

[Denzark]

I'm sure if I could be arsed to look back through BoLS of yore, I would find comments such as 'If GW did HH it would be a license to print money'. So to call it a vanity project is a little harsh I think. I think the foregworld route was interesting and GW have attempted (either deliberately or not) to make it more integrated into 40K by the '40K approved' stamp in the FW books. You can use your contemtors etc.

As to the whole game, I have never heard it referred to as 30K. It is a supplement to 40K is it not? You can't play without 40K BRB?

In terms of players, I have never seen a game of this going on. I would think someone would never get into a new game system without anticipating they could actually get a game - especially at those prices. So I think you can split players in 2 - those who agree with friends/gaming group to make a concerted effort to get into HH - thus they know they will get agame - and those who go in on speculation - so thinking they might now and again convince someone to put a 40K codex up against a legion list. There may be people who buy HH for prestige - but I think they would be outnnumbered by people who buy say, the 40K fortress or a full set of Zone Mortalis for prestige reasons.

In short I think HH is for amateurs in the true sense of the word - for the love of it. Rather than 'pro' gamers showing off.

[Nogle]

thought original post used vanity, just followed suit. my mistake,edited my original post

[Denzark]

Nogle - its no biggy and it is admittedly a possibility...

[SquigBrain]

Also, realize there are folks out there buying the models to use in their regular 40k marine armies. Veterans using "ancient relic armors, sacred to the chapter" and so on.

[DWest]

I'm going to go with something in between; it's WH40K as they've always *wanted* it to be played; huge, epic battles, with crazy high-powered stuff kept in check mainly by fluff and a sense of sportsmanship. It's just that it would be impossible to convert regular 40k to run that way, so they decided to tackle three birds with one stone; re-tool the rules, explore this mythic period of the lore, and make all the shiny crack for the flagship faction.

When they finally get the Heresy rounded off, what they need to do is the Rhana Dandra, let the Eldar take front and center for a time (also Orks and Necrons, depending on who wants to be petty enough to take advantage of the end of everything to settle some old scores).

[hisdudeness]

30k is the fluff 40k. If you play Marines is it a much better version of the game. Tons of options (more than the entire 40k line put together) and difficult to field WAAC lists.

[Sevatar]

30k is the fluff 40k. If you play Marines is it a much better version of the game. Tons of options (more than the entire 40k line put together) and difficult to field WAAC lists.

Indeed.

check out this forum, seriously tons of people play: http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com

on the forum people have set up COUNTRY WIDE EVENTS to play 30k.

Also you can play 30k against 40k, no reason you can't, and if someone refuses then they are being irrational.

[Bigred]

Poll added - I couldn't resist *tee-hee*

[Darren Richardson]

Poll added - I couldn't resist *tee-hee*

Trust you Bigred...

As for My 2 pence worth.

I think that those who collect and build an army are most likely to be in it for the game, those who buy just one or two models are most likely in it for the prestige, just so they can show off their modelling/painting skills....

Neither aspect is wrong and we should be grateful that FW are producing such beautiful figures....

I just wish I could afford them at this moment in time.....

Not to mention have the room for them as well, my Space Marine company is taking most of my spare space up at the moment :D

[Anggul]

I'm sure many people would love to play but it's so overpriced for no reason that most can't afford to. There's no good reason for them to be that expensive. They shouldn't cost any more than the usual Tactical Marine kit. You get less stuff with nothing spare for conversions and no alternative weapons or indeed anything, it's all much more simplistic, and they cost far more. Bizarre, you would think making them a comparable cost to the usual Marine kit would get them a lot more sales, but it's not something that's going to change. Their use of resin is pretty redundant in all but a few cases by now, they could make almost all of their stuff out of plastic, certainly the HH stuff which is actually more simplistic than the 40k Space Marine stuff.

[crandall87]

For me it's a prestige buy but I would play it if I knew anyone else with a 30k army. I do a lot of people who use the forgeworld models and parts for their regular 40k armies though

[Daniel Williams]

Actual game 100%. As time goes on and there appears to be no end in sight to the Taudar monopoly on winning (it's not universal but let's be serious, if 2 equally skilled gamers meet, if one has tau or eldar they'll win), more people will move towards 30k due to it's balance. Is it perfect? No. But IMO it's preferable to at least have a fighting chance before you see all those riptides and jetseers lined up opposite you.

As for specific chapters/legions, I myself have gone 30k because the C:CSM is worthless in terms of producing a Night Lords list, at least with the aesthetic that I want. I'm sure it will apply to Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion in the coming months too. The fact is, you can have a fluffy list, that is rather solid. Granted it won't stand up to the full on cheese in most cases but it's decent.

Not to mention the models are stunning. Expensive? Yes (much more than necessary tbh) but that's the way it is.

[Az Alderson]

prestige buy for the sheer quality of the kits, but also useable due to the rules becoming available. I think its a part of 40k history that players have always desired to play, and now they can, plus with GW releasing some other characters/factions/units that are part of the wider 40k universe and history, theres more choice within the game now. Ive recently started collecting FW kits after many years of wanting them, and as much as i like display pieces, i love that i can use them in a game if i wish :)

[Benjamin Blanchard]

Personnally, I've played more since last year with Legion list than with the new Space Marine codex. Just because we have the rules and already existing 40k SM armies we use to try the different Legions. Because with my friends we are all long Space Marine players, we love the 40k fluff, and playing with the original Legions is an old dream, the only thing we said to ourselves when we heard the HH gaming books was 'Hey, we surely won't have a true Legion army with the right models before long, because it's Forge World and it'll cost much, but who cares ? Let's give it a try !'

Last year 40k SM codex is very nice, but it's not that much new : just Centurions and the 2 AA tanks really are. The tactics are just a coming back of the 4th ed system to customize your army rules. But the Legions, even when you take just the vanilla list there's many new units, new weapons/equipment, and even many of the existing ones have been revamped. So for us, concerning the Horus Heresy, we have focus on the play before really thinking of representing it the real way.

[Baneblade]

I think it is rather balanced, especially the Lords of War rules. In HH no more than 25% of an army can be a Lord of War. Also when the rules came out in the 5th edition I recall people stating how cheap point wise the normal legion marine is compared to the normal chapter marines. Since then with the new edition and the new marine codex dropping the points HH legion marines no longer look to be cheap.

[Brother Garrod]

Viable game ?
Absolutely.
We regularly have games up at the local gaming club , there are around 6 or 7 of us with growing ( or established ) heresy armies , weird and wacky units , superheavies , you name it
with the way workshops plastic ( and the hopefully soon to be gone finecast ) prices are going , foregeworld is no longer ' that' expensive in comparison

[AnEnemy]

The only marine army I use is my Legion list. Its very viable. Although it suffers from the most common problem with FW. People without FW don't want to play it often.

[hisdudeness]

To everyone saying they would play (mor)e 30k if there were more 30k player just so what I did...start a campaign.

I got tired of running low point games (I have 2500 world eaters) or people saying they will start a 30k list some day. So I started a 30k escalation campaign. We are running our HQs for the first mass game and will move to 500, then 750 and so on until we all have 2500-3000 points of legions. We are even running it at a local GW with support from the manager.

By August we will start running the campaign out of book 1. I have around 10 people playing Saturday so far. But 30k is fine against any 40k army.

[Matthew J Wheelden]

I've been wondering about this whole "Warhammer 30k" thing, and I realize that it's come down to one big question: is this an actual game that people actually play, or is it basically a prestige buy, something you buy to paint and paint to display and display so people know that you own it?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking the display mini. Sometimes, for some folks, it's worth it to buy a model because the mini is so beautiful that you just have to paint it, and then show it off. That's part of the visual art side of this hobby, and it's fine. I don't mean any disrespect.

But, think about it like this:
• Warhammer 30k has a much smaller following than 40k.
• In any game with a smaller following, arranging games takes a lot of work.
• Any kind of limitation - trying to be fluffy about who fights who, or following a campaign track - adds to the complexity and the difficulty of lining up games. Fighting out the Horus Heresy seems to be a big part of Warhammer 30k.
• We are (mostly) all adults here, and need to balance our playing time with our painting time, and that with our jobs, families, and other hobbies.

All this adds up to a situation where I feel that this is a legit question: is Forgeworld's Horus Heresy series a game that people actually play, or are people acquiring, painting, and modeling up Heresy-era armies for fun and prestige?

My personal experiences tell me nothing. The Heresy series hasn't really caught on where I am - not even as a prestige thing - so I have no data. I am hoping that BoLS's broader community can help to clear this up.

Its an interesting point that you make. In my local store we started with afew people getting the odd kit. Palantine blades here, Angron there, command group over by the door. Than one person had a little World Eaters army. Slowly other forces seperate from each other collected my people who didnt know each other started to appear all very cool little forces only 1k points max.
Then about a month after gamesday last (September/October 13) the bug cought the "
core" of the gamers they all went mad I am guilty of catching it myself. Now we have about a dozen or more Heresy armies being collected in store. Gaming between them is still limited but increasing.

What started out as a prestige buy for a small few has spiraled into a well developed craze with me and my fellow players.

[Vash108]

The rules are quite balanced and he player base is growing.

[Learn2Eel]

The two main deterrents for 30K taking off are a) it is Forge World and we all know the exceptions some store take with it and b) it costs a lot more than a standard GW army, unless of course you live in Australia/New Zealand.

In my local Games Workshop store, for example, we have only two regulars actively collecting 30K armies, and one of those regulars is the store manager. I'm personally waiting on Thousand Sons' rules before I jump in.
I will vote that it is a proper game though as the rule-set just blows the 40K rule-set out the window in my opinion.