What happened to real war gamers? when did they get replaced with this.....

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Where did all the real gamer's go? What happened to them? Ever since they released the chaos codex each new codex or supplement has been met with this delusion of the sky is falling and its Ragnarok..
First it was the Nerf to broadsides.... ya that really happened.
Then it was the i can't ever play my eldar again.... silly interwebs.
then there was a glimmer of hope when the marines came out. Yet you still had those who said the book was useless and couldn't compete... look at torrent of fire results and tell me marines can't compete...
Then there was the releases of stronghold assault and escalation and the "oh god the sky is falling its the end of 40k as we know it"
we had the nerd rage fest over tyranids and look at them now... new data slates tons of option and a damn good book... overreaction much?
I don't even want to get into knights GW introcudes a new faction to the game and from all the chatter you'd think they just sent willis and afflack up to space to blow up an asteroid...
Now we already have a vocal minority bemoaning the guard release and we know nothing of rules we have only seen a handful of models but enough that they can already say the entire release sucks.....

When did this happen? where are all the real gamers? where are the people who play this game for fun knowing that you have a 50% chance to win each game you play just as you can loose 50% of the games you play. When did gamers get replaced with these doomsayers? where are the people who play these games to have fun and to hang out with their friends and other like minded individuals? Are they silent because they are afraid of the interwebs and nerd raging backlash? OR are they truly all extinct and have been replaced with this whiny version who if they can't win every single game they play then the games broken and your list is cheesy or your a waac gamer or even better you just have more money then me and i cant compete in your arms race... I remember the days when if you even got to see a titan on the battlefield you were completely geeked to face one.

Guess i'll have to call net geo and have them do a documentary on the extinction of gamers and the invasion of doomsayers.

[Arkhan Land]

I think theres an extinction of narrative players, "Gamers" are the problem, recently several of my friends have gotten into 40k and its interesting seeing how they handle what I refer to as the "the true nature of warfare" some of them have kept up with it and keep working on their armies despite consistent losses to a specific army on a regular basis or th elike, others have cut and run for their usual battery of xbox/playstation games where despite infinite losses they can keep "Spawning In" until they finally win the game/level or just have to wait 2 minutes for another round of the same crap

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

@arkhan I can certinally see that point of things but seriously anyone who's played this game knows there will always be ups and downs. i just never remember things being this bad in any of the other editions where you have this constant complaining and whinning that they armies are ruined and unplayable. Just because my friend plays his tau doesn't mean i suddenly throw in the towel and go oh damn i cant win the world is over i quit. i try different list different armies heck i pulled out an armoured company list and with it being he hasn't seen tanks in a long time i had him surrender by turn 3. his firewarriors and tau just couldn't handle all that av14. then when i played him with a different list his tau had changed to be a more balanced force and the game was great.

This whole attitude of the world is ending before a book is even played and before the book is even digested is just sickening.

[George Labour]

AS much as I hate to sound like an old man when I say this I put some of the blame on the Xbox gamer culture bringing it's often vitriolic couch potato anarchist attitudes into other hobbies. If you compare comments about new 40k releases to the whiny self absorbed, and downright ignorant rants about this or that game's latest DLC, or sequel then you'll find that much of it almost seems to be copy pasted from a singular source with a few keywords changed. Apparently people not understanding how money is used in our society or that they are not entitled to anything they can't do themselves is a universal disease of the mind.

HOWEVER it is worth noting that whiny imbecilic squealing from those who think their right to an opinion is a license to be obnoxious is actually not new to the wargaming hobby. But the proliferation of easily accessible social media that also provides the anonymity to let people act like spoiled five years olds does make it seem all the more odious as it's now much harder to ignore. Especially since they can now band together in faceless cliques for mutual protection and to provide 'evidence' that they're in the right.

It's also never going to go away since there's no real way to hold these children (of all ages) accountable for their antics. At least not until someone invents a way to punch morons over the internet.

[DWest]

Personally, I do play the game for fun, but I would also like a set of rules competent enough to have a 50/50 chance on the table, where if I lose the game it's because I made a mistake in how I played, rather than a mistake in choosing a faction because I liked the look of it.

Is there a lot of cynicism and bitterness right now? Yeah, there is. The Tyranids codex by itself is not a damn good book, or even kinda good. Yes, we have dataslates that make it pretty playable, but that means either 1) GW didn't bother checking to see if what they wrote was competent and released a quick bunch of fixes to get the book to work; or 2) they intentionally gutted the book as released to jack up the price; or 3) they aren't even aware there's a problem, and we as players randomly got lucky. Plus, you still have to deal with the community's skittishness about dataslates which means you might show up to a game and not be able to play your army, while a faction whose book didn't get messed up is still fine. That takes a lot of the fun out of playing for fun.

Now, take how well this release hasn't gone, and then look at the strangeness of the rumors surrounding the IG release, and do you wonder why people are getting worried about what's going to happen? And the only answer you trolls can give is either "suck it up" (why yes, I'd love to be exiled from the hobby I enjoy and have put considerable time and effort into by a random decision by an idiot on the other side of the Pond) or "go play Warmahordes lol" (why yes, I'd love to drop everything and buy into a completely different game system with a completely different setting just to maybe eventually have a decent gaming experience).

[Ebsolom Dhaark]

Well said! I couldn't have put it better myself:)

[Nurglitch]

An historical epiphet for 'war-gamers' has been 'Grognard' or "grumbler" after Napolean's Grenadiers of the Imperial Guard. And it's the Veterans of these games that tend to grumble the loudest.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

And how typical of bols and their gestapo acts they remove this thread and stick it in no mans land but will leave up page after page or petulant children whinning and complaining about a minatures game.... This might actiually be enough to make me delete bols and just stick with the forge the narrative guys and some of the other pod casts instead of dealing with this yes move this post down to no mans land but leave up post after post of whiny complainers.

[George Labour]

To be fair this isn't really a 40k thread so much as a 'why do jackarses play these games too' thread. :P

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Personally, I typically find the most annoying faction of a fandom is the division that's convinced everyone else is doing it wrong :P

[ToHitMod]

People moaning is nothing new, its alway been part of the hobby, its just the internet has allowed the moaners and whiners to bunch together and convince each other their complaints are relevant, previously, you'd just have a few people in a group and they'd be the outsider and told to pipe down, now they've found each other and the whining echos

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I rarely ever moan about the hobby, only the hobbyists...

[Denzark]

And how typical of bols and their gestapo acts they remove this thread and stick it in no mans land but will leave up page after page or petulant children whinning and complaining about a minatures game.... This might actiually be enough to make me delete bols and just stick with the forge the narrative guys and some of the other pod casts instead of dealing with this yes move this post down to no mans land but leave up post after post of whiny complainers.

Catch yourself on Romulous, don't be a numpty. First of all, BoLS has one of the lightest touch modding anywhere in terms of 40k/wargames sites. Secondly, the Oubliette is a slightly shabby dirty cracked yet undeniable jewel in the crown of BoLS. If you aren't happy with the move maybe you should consider deleting BoLS and sticking with the Forge the Narrative Guys and other podcasts.

Do you not see the irony in making a whiny complaint whilst slagging off whiny complainers? Don't let the door hit your botty on the way out.

[Deadlift]

Basic rule of thumb.

Those that are most dissatisfied are usually the most vocal, they may seem to speak for the majority but in the grand scheme of things aren't. The internet has always been that case.

Those who get on and enjoy the game generally don't feel the need to argue with those that don't and just get on and enjoy the game, whilst ignoring the negativity.

Walk into any of my local GW stores and it's hard to believe what we read on here and other forums sometimes. Folks there seem to be living a golden age of 40k and loving every minute of it. Whilst I don't always "like" GWs release schedule and rules, there's so much more to love and enjoy about the hobby.

[Mr Mystery]

What Deadlift said. Spot on.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Thirdeded.

[DWest]

Walk into any of my local GW stores and it's hard to believe what we read on here and other forums sometimes. Folks there seem to be living a golden age of 40k and loving every minute of it. Whilst I don't always "like" GWs release schedule and rules, there's so much more to love and enjoy about the hobby.

Sadly, for me, BOLS is the place where I get the love and enjoyment of the hobby (even if it should be BOSL somedays, for Bell of Sore Losers); it's my FLGS where I get stuff like the army of flat green White Scars starting the game in my deployment zone, or the "oh, your flyer's wingtip might be half a millimeter over the edge of the table, it's a wreck now!" or the Eldar player who still tries to play by 2nd ed rules, and do just insane things like claim holo-fields grant 3++ to his tanks.

[Chris Copeland]

What Deadlift said! Hear, hear! This really does seem like a Golden Age of gaming!

[Darren Richardson]

Well said Deadlift..

Most "REAL Wargamers" (tm) are acutally making their models, painting them up and gaming with them, between real life and their hobby, I doubt they get much time to post on messageboards :)

Myself, sadly I'm one of those who can't complete the "REAL Wargamers" (tm) triangle, hence the posting almost daily :D