Of Codex Issues and Dataslates....

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Bit of a tenuous link here I'll freely admit, but without further ado, off we go.

So, ever since the current Chaos Codex came out, we've heard Chaos players expressing dissatisfaction with their Dreadnoughts, feeling they took second place to the shiny new Daemon Engines, and lacked toughness for a casual walk across the table. Common remedy requested? Drop Pods/Dread Claws, like their Imperial brothers, in order to get dropped closer to the enemy.

Far from an unreasonable request, I'm sure most will agree.

What do we now have? Helbrute Dataslate, which amongst two others, includes (apparently) a trio of Helbrutes teleporting onto the board. Which is, more or less, give or take, one of the Chaos player's main issues with the unit addressed and rectified. Yes, it could well have been put into the Codex from the outset, but then that can be said of any of the Dataslates, and it is a downside. But the upside of Dataslates? They don't take up any FoC slots. So with this, you can have your three Helbrutes, and your usual stuff from whichever slot they normally occupy (not a Chaos player, so not that up on their organisation).

Is this a sign of things to come, or a momentary blip of happenstance? Let's also consider the triumvate of Nid Dataslates. Outside of usual Codex organisation, but seemingly quite well received (again, not counting that they could have somehow been incorporated into the Codex).

What might we see next? Is there anything you want to see 'Slated' in the future?

[DrBored]

It's tough to say what's going to come out in the future. I foresee a lot of one-off model releases being coupled with Dataslates though.

The main thing about these Dataslates is that they boost sales. What do you need for those Helbrute formations? Most likely 3+ Helbrutes. Many players would have gotten one from Dark Vengeance and maybe one of the new ones when they hit... but who would buy three? Well, now that you can do interesting stuff with them, people might be much more willing to put down the money for that third model.

Same thing with the Tyranid stuff. Especially the stuff with Lictors. How many people would start a Nid army with a bunch of Lictors? Well, now that there's a big old dataslate that covers them, people are much more willing to invest in a bunch of the kits, instead of just the limits the FOC allows.

So, I think we'll see more along those lines. Potentially some Dataslates in the future when the Aspect Warriors for Eldar get replaced with plastic. Maybe Dataslates that will cover new ways to use Bullgryns or Ogryns to help boost those sales. I could even see another Chaos Dataslate coming out for whenever the Chosen get released.

I guess we'll see. I'm eager for the Helbrute Dataslate. It looks like there are going to be some fluffy and interesting rules to go along with this great new kit!

[Mr Mystery]

Another thought strikes me, using the CSM and Nid dexes....they're both rather vanilla in terms of representing the forces. You can assemble a wide variety of builds should you wish, but they don't get perks as such.

Dataslates seem to shake that up, particularly for Tyranids by providing a Slated core to your force, without gobbling up FoC choices. So for a seeding swarm, take the relevant Slate for the perks, with the back up of you choice.

Could also be the main route of thinking behind them?

[daboarder]

ahem

Maybe we should wait until its released before we draw conclusions about what hellbrutes can and cannot?

That being said I'm of the opinion that properly organized dataslates can do wonders for a boring codex, offering templates to build a force around.

The leviathan 2 slates have been the best they have released, Not because of scoring gargoyles, but because they feel like a tyranid army should feel and they basically allow "themed" forces to actually be effective.

I'm looking forward to the brute slates and could see myself using any of the 3 (based on the background description)

In my dream world it will go like this

Mayhem pack (2-4 brutes): deepstriking (potentially T1 ala pods)
Cult (1 brute, 2 cultist squad): Brute is scoring, gets bonus save form cultists, can target cultists with insanity rolls.
murder mcaawesomepack (3-5 brutes): one brute is the "leader" gets the daemon engine rules, allows re-roll of insanity results, if he dies, all brutes make insanity rolls next turn

[Mr Mystery]

I'm just going off what we've seen, namely the ability to field Deepstriking Helbrutes, as seen in the iBooks taster.

[daboarder]

I'm just going off what we've seen, namely the ability to field Deepstriking Helbrutes, as seen in the iBooks taster.

I was making a joke mystery.....

[Mr Mystery]

Smilies, bunghole! :p

[daboarder]

Smilies, bunghole! :p

what happened to the deadpan smilie? I always like that one

And what the heck is wrong with the forum, I keep getting double post warnings and my editing doesn't re-direct properly

[Eldar_Atog]

So when you want to take something from one of the dataslates, you just pay the points for it? It doesn't take a slot on the FOC?

I haven't used any of the dataslates yet so I wasn't sure how they worked.

[Pyredragon]

My problem with dataslates is I'm beginning to think codex's are being made bland on purpose to necessitate their purchase. It honestly feels way too convenient that Tyranids dropped and was hailed as one of the worst designed and blandest books, while magically on the day of release we were told dataslates were already on the way. And now IG are getting a day one supplement?

I don't trust any company. Yes they are out to make money, but they can make said money without being a dick.

We'll just have to wait and see if that was actual incompetence with Nids, or the shadow of something worse to come.

[Mr Mystery]

For me, it depends how it plays out.

For instance, Tyranid Vanguard. From what I can gather, it's not something they could necessarily do with the Codex, and still have it flexible enough for other types of forces. So right there, I'm happy to pay for the base codex, and any data slate which allows me to super-theme my force.

[DrBored]

I'm more concerned about the MiniDexes more than the Dataslates. Dataslates take things out of FOC slots and build new, more interesting rules for them, rules that, quite frankly, you wouldn't see in a normal Codex.

The MiniDexes, for Legion of the Damned and Inquisition, seem like chunks out of a Codex that should have stayed with the Codex...

Besides, Dataslates are cheap enough compared to the hobby to ignore. The Mini-Dexes are what really hurt as expensive as they are.

Supplements I'm not so worried about. Again, they add things that you wouldn't normally see in a Codex, unless you're Space Marines.

[magickbk]

I like the idea of being able to make effective tweaks without a full Codex release. I don't think that dataslates should come out with a new codex release unless they somehow open up new units for another army without using up the allied detachment slot, that just smells like something that was missed when the codex was written.

[Mr Mystery]

Mini-dexes do have their place.

For instance, Legion of the Damned one? Likely unnecessary if you are fielding a Codex Space Marines force. But IG, GK, SoB, SW, DA, BA? Allows me to attach them.

They let me build a list matching my interpretation of the background. And that's something I look forward to.

So far, I've only picked up Iyanden, and I really like that book. As a background centric hobbyist, I was happy with the price as I got a lot of brand new background to obsess over, and should I fancy a Ghost Warrior heavy army, the option to go full Iyanden, with a couple of small 'rewards' for doing so. And I do mean rewards, rather than incentives. To me, an incentive would be to make a variant Codex noticeably better than it's parent. A reward is a little bonus for going background matching.

Splitting hairs? Depends on your point of view!

[daboarder]

For me, it depends how it plays out.

For instance, Tyranid Vanguard. From what I can gather, it's not something they could necessarily do with the Codex, and still have it flexible enough for other types of forces. So right there, I'm happy to pay for the base codex, and any data slate which allows me to super-theme my force.

I kinda disagree Mystery.

There honestly isn't too much in either set of dataslates that couldn't have been in the codex. ie:

lictors, brood size 1-5, deploy individually, units within 6 are at -1 Ld

Stealers: special rule x, my infiltrate within 6 of units if in area terrain

Gants, gaunts and gargs: Endless swarm rolled into the base profile

Tervigon: Heck we had a rumour about spawning options, easy

that kinda really leaves the bio-bombs, warriors nodes and artillery slates....

Not saying that was the goal, GW has written bad nid books before, but if the trend does continue I'd say thats where it started.

as to supplements, well I've thought they should bring those back since 4th, really livens up the release scehdule slipping those in between full books.

[Mr Mystery]

Haven't read it yet to be honest.

But the main difference is that those 1-5 Lictors, and their perks, don't go scoffing up your other Elite slots, which has been a common issue with the last couple of Nids books, namely certain units which are by no means all that bad, being overlooked in favour of their slot stable mates which are just that little bit better.

For instance, by the time I'd taken my Venomthropes (essential!), Hiveguard (what's not to like!) and Zoathropes (EAT MIND BULLETS!)....oh....right...erm.....Troops section? (previous book, sold army a while back). But now, I can have my Lictors, and my Hiveguard, and my Venomthropes, and my Zoanthropes. Points allowing!

It's arguably giving those 'close but no cigar' units a second innings, and as your opponent, more variety for meeeeeeeeeeeeee! (which I am obviously in favour of!)

[Charon]

But the main difference is that those 1-5 Lictors, and their perks, don't go scoffing up your other Elite slots, which has been a common issue with the last couple of Nids books, namely certain units which are by no means all that bad, being overlooked in favour of their slot stable mates which are just that little bit better.

With all this Formations and Datalates around I would not be overly surprised if the FOC gets deleted in a rumored "not 7th edition" anyways. While im OK-ish with dataslates fixing codex issues (tyranids patched them surprisingly well), the formations really bother me to a certain extent as they are making armis with available formations not only ignore FOC but also rewarding them for doing so.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

I look at them this way they are a luxury part of the game. their legal for all regular games and for that i am thankful. If you told me I had to face the same boring spam list over and over again or i could fight a list that has some suppliment love and maybe a data slate I will take on that challenge any and every time. Even books liek inquisition which i thought could have been done better open up some serious options. sure they are slate and suppliments that are better then the other's it's going to happen. but for me its well worth it. I know that when i face an opponent it will actually be different each and every time. it rewards diversity.

[Mr Mystery]

Once everyone has one, it will be less of an issue I'd imagine. Certainly would for me!

It can be a bit rubbish as a Necron player, as I have to wait for my shiny new toys!

[DrBored]

Once everyone has one, it will be less of an issue I'd imagine. Certainly would for me!

It can be a bit rubbish as a Necron player, as I have to wait for my shiny new toys!

I do kinda feel bad for Necron, Grey Knights, and Dark Eldar. You guys waited a long time for your Codexes, and they came out and were awesome for a brief flash, then 6th came around and everyone started getting these hardbacks and supplements and stuff...

But then, it makes me excited for those players too, especially Necron and Dark Eldar. I'd love to see both those armies get some sort of psuedo-superheavy or fortification!

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

@mystery. But that's just it your necrons will get a new shiny codex and toys. they they will get some data slate loving as well and i mean i guess they could even do suppliments for them as well covering some og the major characters and their dynasties. I look at it as the options are unlimited its really up to the designers to go buck wild on this one and give us some great books.

[Charon]

I do kinda feel bad for Necron, Grey Knights, and Dark Eldar. You guys waited a long time for your Codexes, and they came out and were awesome for a brief flash, then 6th came around and everyone started getting these hardbacks and supplements and stuff...

But then, it makes me excited for those players too, especially Necron and Dark Eldar. I'd love to see both those armies get some sort of psuedo-superheavy or fortification!

Actually I dont even have a problem with that. Sure a few matchups are pretty rough but I really love DE the way they are. The army may be completely binary and alphastrike dependent, but I really like the theme and feel of the fast and deadly raider force. I am really afraid that GW will eventually mess their theme up in a future codex.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

I can Agree with charon easily on DE they are still considered a spoiler army. their a match up that can decimate an unprepared foe. even with their haydays in 5th many people haven't faced them. so with that being said they can do alot of damage to anyone they face. all that poision and tons of dark lances they are still a nightmare to face. i pitty the fool who underestimates dark eldar especially dark eldar in a skilled player.