Question about transports outflanking

[vutall]

Hello all. SO I have a question. If a transport vehicle outflanks, does it count as moving for the purposes of disembarking?

[Jwolf]

Yes, as entering from reserve we treat all units as having been just off the board edge and moving onto the board. So no, you can't drive onto the board in a Rhino, jump out, and assault.

[vutall]

I see. Now what if instead of outflanking, you just do a regular scout move? Since its after deployment, but before movement, does that still count as moving for disembarking?

[Xai]

I see. Now what if instead of outflanking, you just do a regular scout move? Since its after deployment, but before movement, does that still count as moving for disembarking?

No, since the scout move is done before the first turn is started.

[BuFFo]

I see. Now what if instead of outflanking, you just do a regular scout move? Since its after deployment, but before movement, does that still count as moving for disembarking?

Yes it does. Whenever a vehicle moves (pivoting aside) the unit inside counts as moving.

[vutall]

hm. conflicting answers. anyone have a clear ruling on this and perhaps a ref?

[Xai]

Well I checked the rule book, under Scout it says:


...after both sides have deployed (including infiltrators), but before the first player begins his first turn, any scouts may make a normal move. This is done exactly as in their Movement phase, except that during this move, scouts must remain more than 12" away from any enemy.

When I look at the rules for disembarking, it says
A unit that begins its Movement phase aboard a vehicle can disembark ... If the vehicle has not yet moved, then the passengers may disembark and move normally.

When I look under the Heavy Weapons rules, it says
"Remember that if any models move, their whole unit counts as having moved for that turn..."

Comparing these rules, the Scout rule says specifically before the first player begins his first turn, and the Heavy Weapons rule says unit counts as having moved for that turn, and the disembarking rules state A unit that begins its Movement phase ... If the vehicle has not yet moved, it would seem that the Scout rule happens before the turn is counted, and thus would not affect disembarking or heavy weapons.

[StrikerFox]

Comparing these rules, the Scout rule says specifically before the first player begins his first turn, and the Heavy Weapons rule says unit counts as having moved for that turn, and the disembarking rules state A unit that begins its Movement phase ... If the vehicle has not yet moved, it would seem that the Scout rule happens before the turn is counted, and thus would not affect disembarking or heavy weapons.

agreed!
scout move is done before EITHER of the players first turn.. so you could be going second and still scout move if you wanted to, and not count as moving when its your turn. (even for shooting or assaulting purposes) reason? because its not even a "turn" yet.

[BuFFo]

agreed!
scout move is done before EITHER of the players first turn.. so you could be going second and still scout move if you wanted to, and not count as moving when its your turn. (even for shooting or assaulting purposes) reason? because its not even a "turn" yet.

I never said the unit would be counted as moving during the 'first turn' after moving during scout moves.

The unit would be counted as moving during the scout move. But since there is no shooting during your scout move, this entire discussion is rather pointless eh?

But since the OP was not clear on this, by the way he wrote his question, the only logical assumption would be that he is asking if the unit counts as moving during the scout movement, and not the first turn.

People here are getting their answers mixed up due to not really knowing what the OP is asking.

1) During your scout move, if you move a vehicle, then the scouts inside can only get out, but they cannot move any further. Thats the point I am making. What I was trying to say had nothing to do with shooting, since you can't shoot pre game normally anyway.

2) During your scout move, if for some reason you don't move your transport, the unit inside can get out, and then move normally since the vehicle has not moved. Why would someone do this? Who knows.

3) Regardless of who moves in the scout phase, once the first turn for that player starts, both units can move and shoot as normal, like any other unit.

[StrikerFox]

I never said the unit would be counted as moving during the 'first turn' after moving during scout moves.

The unit would be counted as moving during the scout move. But since there is no shooting during your scout move, this entire discussion is rather pointless eh?

But since the OP was not clear on this, by the way he wrote his question, the only logical assumption would be that he is asking if the unit counts as moving during the scout movement, and not the first turn.

People here are getting their answers mixed up due to not really knowing what the OP is asking.

1) During your scout move, if you move a vehicle, then the scouts inside can only get out, but they cannot move any further. Thats the point I am making. What I was trying to say had nothing to do with shooting, since you can't shoot pre game normally anyway.

2) During your scout move, if for some reason you don't move your transport, the unit inside can get out, and then move normally since the vehicle has not moved. Why would someone do this? Who knows.

3) Regardless of who moves in the scout phase, once the first turn for that player starts, both units can move and shoot as normal, like any other unit.

true point :)

i guess perfect example of this is tau pathfinders.

[vutall]

Well, thanks a ton all! That really helps me to figure out my strategy for my Air Cav list.

[BuFFo]

true point :)

i guess perfect example of this is tau pathfinders.

Oddly enough, this past saturday, this very thing happened to me.

My friend scouted his Devil fish (or whatever the pathfinders ride in) and got his guys out into some area terrain before the game...

I hate smart Tau players :(

[vutall]

So wait..... does this you could potentially scout move your valkyries, deploy the guardsman inside, then on your turn move, shoot, and assault (Don't ask why I am assaulting with guardsman. It will make your head hurt)

I mean, with clever scout moves and the right deployment, that puts you only 12' from an enemy if they were right on the edge...

Still thinking its better to outflank though. I need peoples opinions on the air cav tactics. I meen, I have 6 valks in a 2k point game, with nothing else on the board...

[BuFFo]

Yes.

Move your Valk 12", then deploy your scouting passengers.

Turn 1, shoot your opponent up.

Then on your opponent's turn, lose everything you scouted.

;)

[Xas]

thats the trick with my airborn grey knights.

stick them in valks/dettas, scout, "land" (remove from base to stop rules lawyering) 12" from the enemy with your back facing him.

in your turn dissembark 2,99" move 6" charge 6".

tricky and only for special people who deserve it but fun :)

[StrikerFox]

thats the trick with my airborn grey knights.

stick them in valks/dettas, scout, "land" (remove from base to stop rules lawyering) 12" from the enemy with your back facing him.

in your turn dissembark 2,99" move 6" charge 6".

tricky and only for special people who deserve it but fun :)

that sounds damn brutal..

[AdamHarry]

Yes it does. Whenever a vehicle moves (pivoting aside) the unit inside counts as moving.

Pivoting counts as movement for disembarking. pg 67 of the rule book under the disembarking section, 2nd bullet.

"If the vehicle has already moved (including pivoting on the spot), the passengers may disembark, but may not move any further in that movement phase."

It goes on to say that the unit can also shoot, but not assault.

[BuFFo]

stick them in valks/dettas, scout, "land" (remove from base to stop rules lawyering) 12" from the enemy with your back facing him.

Actually you have it wrong. You cannot remove your Valk from the base during a game unless its destroyed/wrecked or immobilized.

What you do is just deploy 2" horizontally from the valks hull and stick your knights on the ground anyway. If your opponent says anything tell him hes an idiot.


Pivoting counts as movement for disembarking. pg 67 of the rule book under the disembarking section, 2nd bullet.

"If the vehicle has already moved (including pivoting on the spot), the passengers may disembark, but may not move any further in that movement phase."

It goes on to say that the unit can also shoot, but not assault.

Thank you for correcting me.

[StrikerFox]

[QUOTE=BuFFo;4903]

What you do is just deploy 2" horizontally from the valks hull and stick your knights on the ground anyway. If your opponent says anything tell him hes an idiot.


QUOTE]

HAHAH..

but seriously, just think if they are grey knights, they are in power armor.. they can survive a drop from that height... may break a leg... but they can survive! lol

but yeah, you cant remove the base unless as buffo said.. :P