crimson slaughter dex

[Jin'thal]

So I have to ask...am I the only long time chaos player that is less then impressed with this supplement?

The new rules for possessed create a mean melee unit IF you can get them into melee without getting gunned down. The 3++ will definitely help that happen but with the state of the game these days I have to wonder how feasible they will be vs the heaviest shoot armies...especially with a squad of 10 unit ten clocking in at 260 points.

No new rules for helbrutes either...which is a shame since the new kit looks fantastic.

Like every other chaos player I know I would have much rather seen a legion book of some kind. It seems the typical gw attitude of f@#k chaos is still ever present... particularly after the current knight fiasco. (Crossing our fingers for a daemon Knight or some chaos usable variant)

Chaos players I'd very much like to hear your thoughts here...

[daboarder]

eh, It has grown on me.

The new rolls for possessed help them with their biggest problem, which was alwasy how to get an expensive 2+ Sv model to combat, rhinos dont work this edition but beasts, shrouded or a 3++ help.

The only problem now is that once they get there they are a bit...meh, because they don't have the old "aggressive table"

the Hellbrute is coming in a dataslate, and depending on the rules boost they get and the numbers required for it, you ccould really start seeing them come back.
Pure wishlisting, but if the slate give them Daemonforge, daemon, IWND in a choice of 2-5 dreads, you will start to see a LOT of them, partiularly because they wont be eating slots.

the warlord traits are no worse than ours, mostly better really, the only one thats a bit hairy is the FC/Rage one, IF you buy the relic that already give that....

The real meat of the list is the relics
Divination (THANK CHRIST WOO HOOO!) so our sorcerers are finally a force to be recond with, 1Ksons players are also extatic as they can now run paired sorcerers (1 with relic, one with tzeentch mark) for all sorts of hillarious shenannnigans

the rest are pretty good, Dark apostles will be getting a HUGE buff out of this with the ability to buy them aritficer armour with IWND and a better crozius

so whether you just want a replacement for your black legion solar sorc, or actually want to try running a Dark apostle in a cultist swarm, the CS will let you do it.


the only drawback is you cannot Buy VotLW (note units that already have it are still eligible for purchase)

[Sly]

I really like the 2+/IWND option also. The relics are really good in this supplement, probably enough to ditch the Burning Brand in order to get them.

[Jin'thal]

I actually did not know about the pending dataslate on helbrutes, The black library entry states "This dataslate presents detailed background for these unique Chaos war machines, and three new Helbrute Datasheet Formations, providing new ways to field your Helbrutes in games of Warhammer 40,000." Helbrutes need some basic rules revamping...a couple of extra add on rules for having multiples of them on the table would not be enough for me to invest in the new kits unless they were pretty outstanding add ons. Even if they did get Daemonforge, Daemon and IWND its still a walker and Crazed makes them too unreliable, the only saving grace is that they are relatively cheap point wise but for 50ish more points you could take a havoc squad kitted out and probably spew more death downfield with better range then a basic Helbrute.

We can win games with what we have....but I just don't see anything new coming anytime soon that would make me veer away from the killer nurgle list combos or flying circus lists that seem to annoy the hell out of anyone you throw them against for competitive play.

[DarkLink]

I think this is actually a pretty solid list, simply because it helps cover a lot of the weaknesses of the core CSM codex. Divination access alone is a huge deal. BTW, was there a relic weapon? I just so happen to be restarting my Khorne CSM army, and I'd definitely like a 2+ IWND Juggernaut Lord. If I have to stick to a Lightning Claw/Power Fist combo, so be it, but if they have a cool relic weapon I'll do that.

[daboarder]

I think this is actually a pretty solid list, simply because it helps cover a lot of the weaknesses of the core CSM codex. Divination access alone is a huge deal. BTW, was there a relic weapon? I just so happen to be restarting my Khorne CSM army, and I'd definitely like a 2+ IWND Juggernaut Lord. If I have to stick to a Lightning Claw/Power Fist combo, so be it, but if they have a cool relic weapon I'll do that.

Yeah the relic sword is the one with the kill count.

at the end of each assualt phase figure out how many models have been killed over the course of the game

1=+1S, 3=Ap2, 5=+1S 10=ID

The instant death is pretty unlikely (except for a khornate jugger lord ;))

but the others boostsa are both good and achievable.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

I for one am very exited we just got a new player in a gaming group he was going to do iyanden and then saw teh dark vangane box set and heard about crimson slaughter and jumped at the chance. for me it means when we do campaigns i will actually have an ally to back up my world eaters and death guard companies finally...( we have a tson's player but he abandoned them this summer for the greater good... commy bast**d)

[TheCreator]

I'm excited and angry about the new artifacts. I'm excited they exist, are super fluffy, are useful and bring more builds to the table. But I'm angry THAT THEY WEREN'T IN THE MAIN CSM DEX IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Tzeentch is the god of fate/time/prophecy and his sorcerers get access to Divination now? What?

[Bigred]

How could I not add a poll?

Come on guys - the OP was begging for one :)

[daboarder]

can we get some variance on the responce for that one bigred, I like the book. But there are other things I would have prefered and it doesn't solve ALL our problems

[Deadlift]

It's a nice addition, but would have preferred "insert legion / chaos god" instead.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm excited and angry about the new artifacts. I'm excited they exist, are super fluffy, are useful and bring more builds to the table. But I'm angry THAT THEY WEREN'T IN THE MAIN CSM DEX IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Tzeentch is the god of fate/time/prophecy and his sorcerers get access to Divination now? What?

He was possessed by a LORD OF CHANGE.


I am loving this new supplement, it makes a viable CC army, which I like. Kranon is awesome, he's like a renegade Commander Shepard.
All the background is superb, love the colour scheme, and the alterations are truly flavourful.

[DrBored]

He was possessed by a LORD OF CHANGE.


I am loving this new supplement, it makes a viable CC army, which I like. Kranon is awesome, he's like a renegade Commander Shepard.
All the background is superb, love the colour scheme, and the alterations are truly flavourful.

If Commander Shepard was covered in spikes and horns and schizophrenic, yeah, I suppose.

But, I did enjoy reading the fluff and story of the Crimson Slaughter. I like the twist with the Dark Angels, their combat tactics, and generally the idea that they're haunted, and that it's very visible on the battlefield. That's just cool.

The fact that everyone gets Fear is nice. Won't do much good against Space Marines, but against almost every other army (esp. Orks and Imperial Guard when they hit the tables in their new forces) it's going to be very useful!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

He isn't far off.

http://www.cheatcc.com/imagesfeatures/renegadevsparagonnavigatingmasseffect_00.jpg

[crandall87]

It's not a bad supplement. As mentioned before the relics are really good. I like the random element that the possessed have in this book and the main codex. Is it viable competitively? Not really but they are fun to use in casual games because of the random element and of course the models look really nice.

I know a lot of people (myself included) would like Legion supplements but I feel that these early supplements are kinda limited and at the moment we're not seeing any new models specifically for them (the helbrute is new but not specific for this book). It looks like that will change soon when the IG (or should I say AM) get their supplement shortly after their new codex releases in the coming weeks. Hopefully when the other legions do get done we'll see new models released with them. All I really want though is an Emperors Children suupliment that allows the army to take sonic weaponry in most units.

[DrBored]

It's not a bad supplement. As mentioned before the relics are really good. I like the random element that the possessed have in this book and the main codex. Is it viable competitively? Not really but they are fun to use in casual games because of the random element and of course the models look really nice.

I know a lot of people (myself included) would like Legion supplements but I feel that these early supplements are kinda limited and at the moment we're not seeing any new models specifically for them (the helbrute is new but not specific for this book). It looks like that will change soon when the IG (or should I say AM) get their supplement shortly after their new codex releases in the coming weeks. Hopefully when the other legions do get done we'll see new models released with them. All I really want though is an Emperors Children suupliment that allows the army to take sonic weaponry in most units.

I'm with you there.

I'm still holding out hope that the various Chaos God Codices will be made, and my evidence is as follows...
There are 8 particular kits that are in desperate need of an update...
Keeper of Secrets, Noise Marines, Great Unclean One, Plague Marines, Lord of Change, Thousand Sons, Bloodthirster, Khorne Berzerkers...

See a pattern? One cult troop, one plastic greater daemon. It'd be all too easy for GW to release a supplement or mini-dex that combines elements of Chaos to create god-devoted codices, and then to release brand new kits for those Chaos factions. They'd be printing money at that point.

[m3g4tr0n]

Not really worth it.

Although...Helbrute Murderpack does sound hot.

[Eldar_Atog]

It's a nice addition, but would have preferred "insert legion / chaos god" instead.

Yeah, I don't care about the fluff of the crimson slaughter but it looks like the books has some nice things in it for a variety of factions

[lupo1982]

I was all Happy btu after reading it i was meh,
PRO
2+AS IWND is a good relic for a Chaos lords(couse chaos aparently haven0t artificers)
Possesed troops is very characteristic
Possessed table is better than original
Divination sorcer can give a good boost to Maulers!( if u plan a shooting army)
CON
Except 2 relics the rest is useles IMHO
no relics viable for DEmon princes
No other characterization of chapter
SEmi-unkonw chapter(REALLY GW? IRON WARRIOS , NIGHT LORDS,ALPAHA LEGION !!!!)
as Chaos marines, only 1 kind of LR and no other tranport apart the ridocolus rhino(i mean can't we trade that **** with some chimeras?)

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Your getting alot from the new book literally we have a player who is jumping in on a campaign with the new crimson slaughter he hopes to have his force playable this weekend. I for one think anything that makes more chaos players is a good thing. while i understand there are those who wanted other suppliments. We need to look at it this way. we got a suppliment IF it sells well then perhaps GW will consider giving us our legion suppliments earlier rather then later. I look at it like this also we now have an additional option to ally with. you can now ally chaos with daemons with black legion and now crimson slaughter. it opens up the option for us more thats what i am taking away from the book. i know my world eater's and death guard are looking forward to watching them march next to them. so anything that will allow me allies when i'm butchering ultramarines cadians vostroyans and krieg makes me happy

[Marshal_Loss]

It's nice overall, more options for Chaos are great, but it's still yet another example of GW not handling Chaos correctly. All of these artifacts are lovely but should have been in the main codex, or have been made available to them. Forcing us to pick and choose between supplements just to get access to a few items (whereas something like a 2+ armour save really should have been in the main codex) is just being a dick.

[ToHitMod]

It's nice overall, more options for Chaos are great, but it's still yet another example of GW not handling Chaos correctly. All of these artifacts are lovely but should have been in the main codex, or have been made available to them. Forcing us to pick and choose between supplements just to get access to a few items (whereas something like a 2+ armour save really should have been in the main codex) is just being a dick.

But they're relics owned by the Crimson Slaughter, so they should be in their supplement.

[daboarder]

he is referring to the fact that having a relic as your only non terminator access to a 2+ save is a bit ridiculous.

And he is right, Fleshmetal should have been an option for all HQ characters are roughly 20-25 pts. that wouldn't prevent the relic form existing with its IWND bonus

[ToHitMod]

I dunno, I think Chaos Space Marines should have to rely on the few suits of Terminator armour they have for a 2+ save, they wouldn't be as likely to have Artificer Armour, some are lucky to have functioning power armour as it is.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

hmm i go back and forth on that one. i mean it all depends on the warband and legion when it comes down to wargear. i look at say iron warriors they have factory worlds under their control they are undoubledly one of the best supplied legions still in existance and their gear would always be to a high standard. they keep close ties with the mechanicus so i could see them as having access to what ever they needed really. now a warband like the world eaters i could see that i mean really who can get them calm long enough to effect repairs with out being killed lol

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I hate what the Chaos Legions have done to the hobby. Quite frankly. They were broken as all hell two codicies ago, and I for one am glad that they were toned down a bit.
To all of you who moan that Chaos is utter balls, I ask you one question... Why are you playing them then? Waiting on for some broken combo to come out so that you can rejoice in your WS10 S10 A50 characters again? No.

This is not how Games Workshop rolls anymore. Do you notice how allies work, so that you can include a variety of models? This is all because Games Workshop wants you to have themed armies. There are no broken combos in 6th. Only standalone powerful units... (ie Heldrake, Chapter Master with Eternal Shield and The Burning Blade, Wraithguard, The Swarmlord, etc)

I am glad that the Legions have not yet been updated, if they are taking their time to make them nice and balanced, so be it.
I'll be over here with my troops choice, survivable, Possessed and my amazing characters, with awesome background, and you can all rot in your complaints.

Chaos whinging is almost a bandwagon thing nowadays, even more annoying than Eldar players were.

Take from them everything! Leave only corpses!

[DarkLink]

Well, the whole idea behind fleshmetal is that some daemon warped their armor to meld it to the Marine. It's just a different way of getting a 2+ from Artificer Armor.

[daboarder]

I hate what the Chaos Legions have done to the hobby. Quite frankly. They were broken as all hell two codicies ago, and I for one am glad that they were toned down a bit.
To all of you who moan that Chaos is utter balls, I ask you one question... Why are you playing them then? Waiting on for some broken combo to come out so that you can rejoice in your WS10 S10 A50 characters again? No.

This is not how Games Workshop rolls anymore. Do you notice how allies work, so that you can include a variety of models? This is all because Games Workshop wants you to have themed armies. There are no broken combos in 6th. Only standalone powerful units... (ie Heldrake, Chapter Master with Eternal Shield and The Burning Blade, Wraithguard, The Swarmlord, etc)

I am glad that the Legions have not yet been updated, if they are taking their time to make them nice and balanced, so be it.
I'll be over here with my troops choice, survivable, Possessed and my amazing characters, with awesome background, and you can all rot in your complaints.

Chaos whinging is almost a bandwagon thing nowadays, even more annoying than Eldar players were.

Take from them everything! Leave only corpses!

wow man, calm the hell down. Where is the whining?

Or do you really think a pair of comments about artificer armour to be "whining"

edit: seriously your post is the most aggressive thing in this thread


I dunno, I think Chaos Space Marines should have to rely on the few suits of Terminator armour they have for a 2+ save, they wouldn't be as likely to have Artificer Armour, some are lucky to have functioning power armour as it is.

depending on the warband/legion, chaos actually has more suits of terminator plate than your average Space marine chapter, becuase horus was ensuring all the good stuff got shipped his way.

Don't get me wrong, chaos terminators are some of the best in teh game with marks and customization, and our characters are the most likely to be rocking a suit of it too (best gear for the boss and all) but flesh metal would have been nice, particularly for opening up HQ options, and that is something you will see with people now having access to the daemonheart relic.

No longer are lords largely constrained to survivabillity or options, now we can have both like our contemporaries.

expect to see so much daemonheart that you get sick of it.

[DrBored]

wow man, calm the hell down. Where is the whining?

Or do you really think a pair of comments about artificer armour to be "whining"

edit: seriously your post is the most aggressive thing in this thread



depending on the warband/legion, chaos actually has more suits of terminator plate than your average Space marine chapter, becuase horus was ensuring all the good stuff got shipped his way.

Don't get me wrong, chaos terminators are some of the best in teh game with marks and customization, and our characters are the most likely to be rocking a suit of it too (best gear for the boss and all) but flesh metal would have been nice, particularly for opening up HQ options, and that is something you will see with people now having access to the daemonheart relic.

No longer are lords largely constrained to survivabillity or options, now we can have both like our contemporaries.

expect to see so much daemonheart that you get sick of it.

Sorry, that made me giggle a little. Chaos Terminators are the best? Why don't we see them on the table, like, at all then? :P

[daboarder]

because no terminators are really very tough to shooting these days. But you do see more chaos terminators than most because they are cheaper.

[Chumbalaya]

There are no broken combos in 6th.

You wanna try that one again, slick?

[DarkLink]

Sorry, that made me giggle a little. Chaos Terminators are the best? Why don't we see them on the table, like, at all then? :P

Because Terminators in general are pretty bad. Chaos Terminators are one of the least terrible options, though. Grey Knights, and to a lesser degree THSS Terminators, are the only other ones that really qualify as good.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

wow man, calm the hell down. Where is the whining?

Or do you really think a pair of comments about artificer armour to be "whining"

edit: seriously your post is the most aggressive thing in this thread

That's probably because I'm shouting the Crimson Slaughter warcry.

Also, I don't have enough time to scour through every post finding any mention of someone going "why is it not the Legions blahblahblah"



You wanna try that one again, slick?

Yeah sure. I've beat Taudar on multiple occasions, have bested the Necron Deathstar, felled a Knight Titan with a Powerfist, shot down a Heldrake with one snap firing Lascannon (and I did the same to a Daemon Prince who was Enfeebled and a Stormraven carrying Crowe, and the ensueing explosion killed him), destroyed the Grey Knights, slaughtered a full wound Wraithknight with one of my Imperial Knights on 1 hull point, etc etc.

Nothing is unstoppable, you just have to know how best to kill them and actually play the game.

[Charon]

slaughtered a full wound Wraithknight with one of my Imperial Knights on 1 hull point

Wow... what an accomplishment... I mean rolling at least one 4+ followed by a 2+ with only 3 attacks is a heroic deed...



Nothing is unstoppable, you just have to know how best to kill them and actually play the game.

Half of the Stuff you mention is pure luck (or do you plan to snapkill heldrakes as "best" core tactic to kill them?) and the other half is just statistics.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Now, without further dues, as I do have some time on my hands here are some of the Legion moaners' posts:


Like every other chaos player I know I would have much rather seen a legion book of some kind. It seems the typical gw attitude of f@#k chaos is still ever present... particularly after the current knight fiasco. (Crossing our fingers for a daemon Knight or some chaos usable variant)


I'm excited and angry about the new artifacts. I'm excited they exist, are super fluffy, are useful and bring more builds to the table. But I'm angry THAT THEY WEREN'T IN THE MAIN CSM DEX IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! Tzeentch is the god of fate/time/prophecy and his sorcerers get access to Divination now? What?


CON
Except 2 relics the rest is useles IMHO
no relics viable for DEmon princes
No other characterization of chapter
SEmi-unkonw chapter(REALLY GW? IRON WARRIOS , NIGHT LORDS,ALPAHA LEGION !!!!)
as Chaos marines, only 1 kind of LR and no other tranport apart the ridocolus rhino(i mean can't we trade that **** with some chimeras?)


It's nice overall, more options for Chaos are great, but it's still yet another example of GW not handling Chaos correctly. All of these artifacts are lovely but should have been in the main codex, or have been made available to them. Forcing us to pick and choose between supplements just to get access to a few items (whereas something like a 2+ armour save really should have been in the main codex) is just being a dick.


Seems GW are hell bent on not doing the chaos legions as a standalone codex. So no Death guard, World eaters, Thousand Sons or Emperors Children. Rumours are Crimson Slaughter are next.


Still no legions? So still no money GW-morons. Who cares about the next renegades.


Come on guys I think GW are really missing the mark here with this release. Sure it's going to be cool if proven, but we all know what will happen if and when the big 4 get their own codex/supplement. The excitement from the fans will be massive. I don't know their plans or release schedule but I do know what the majority of players in my area do want to see in the form of chaos supplements and judging by what's written over the internet they aren't alone in clamouring for the Legions / God Aligned rules.


Boo that it isn't the Legion or God-Specific stuff we've been SCREAMING about for YEARS.


So, no retooling of much. We'll probably get some wargear and some IC shenanigans and... continue to despair. Awesome.


Now, before people who don't play Chaos Marines are quick to fob off complaints about new releases, here's a scenario I'd like them to consider for a moment:

Imagine that what you really, REALLY want above all else is a holiday to, let's say, Cancun (as a randomly picked example). You've been wanting this for, say, 7 years now. And on a regular basis, you've been stating this fact quite clearly to your family/friends/significant other/whoever is the one to facilitate this.

Now, imagine that, on no less than 3 occasions to date, your family/friends/significant other/whoever is the one to facilitate the holiday has come to you and said 'Okay, I know you're really wanting a holiday - so I've booked as a trip to Anchorage/Montreal/Vermont/anyplace which is as far removed from where you're actually wanting to go on vacation as possible'! Yes, you'd be a bit disappointed, wouldn't you?

Then, you get wind that your family/friends/significant other/whoever is the one to facilitate the vacation are planning another trip - and you pick up suggestions that, yes this time they have finally LISTENED and PAID ATTENTION to what you ACTUALLY WANT, and are planning that vacation to Cancun!

But then - lo and behold - the new vacation is announced, and again, it's not Cancun, it's nowhere that's anything like Cancun, again it's somewhere that's the opposite to it - not warm and sunny, but cold and icy.

So if that was you, let down all those times before despite having made your express wishes very clear, you'd be forgiven for complaining about it, wouldn't you?


Quite obviously, this scenario relates to Chaos Marine players - what the overwhelming majority of us have been saying for the last few years is that we want rules to represent the Chaos Legions as they now exist in 40k, and we want them to not only play like they truly capture the feel of that, we want them to be effective in games (so we're not just reliant on Heldrake-Cultist spam anymore).

Now, there is NO WAY that the GW design team can say they don't know about this desire - I attended Games Day in 2011 and 2012, and spoke to Jervis, Mat Ward and Phil Kelly and stated this fact to them. *In fact I spoke to Phil Kelly when the current Chaos 'dex had just been announced, and we talked about representing Legions, and he pretty much said he had written it with players being able to field forces representing the Legions in mind (Sadly Phil, it didn't live up to your intentions...).

So it's not like GW doesn't GET what Chaos players are wanting for their army. It's just... I don't know if they're ignoring it, or have some misguided idea about what is better for Chaos Marines in 40k they're working towards.

Now, I should make it clear that, although I'm a Chaos Marine player, my army isn't a Legion one, so it's not like I'm wanting Legion rules for my army - but having played through two average and no better Chaos Codices since 2007, I can totally appreciate why the vast majority of Chaos players want these Legion rules.

At the same time, yay for a new Chaos model, but it's a shame it's for a unit which isn't as good as it could be... I'm waiting for the rumoured Plastic Obliterators with more anticipation than the Helbrute...

[DrBored]

Now, without further dues, as I do have some time on my hands here are some of the Legion moaners' posts:

Your point?

I've said this a couple times now, complaining about other people complaining is just more complaining, and you're really just fanning the fires. People come to the Internet to vent, it's easy, they get to remain anonymous, and sometimes they'll find those with similar opinions. If you can't handle that, well, what are you complaining about?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Anonymous? When you have a name?

Seems legit.

[bfmusashi]

There was whining, the whining was denied, evidence of whining was provided, and the whining has been proven to exist.

[daboarder]

There was whining, the whining was denied, evidence of whining was provided, and the whining has been proven to exist.

I guess you cant read either mate. Of the above 10 quotes, 4 of then are from this thread (which has 30+ posts) and two of those are taken out of context to make them appear worse.

[Eldar_Atog]

There was whining, the whining was denied, evidence of whining was provided, and the whining has been proven to exist.

Also... There was whining about the whining, the whining about the whining was denied, evidence of the whining about the whining was provided, and the whining about the whining has been proven to exist.

Can we continue with the conversation about the supplement now?

[DarkLink]

Yeah sure. I've beat Taudar on multiple occasions, have bested the Necron Deathstar, felled a Knight Titan with a Powerfist, shot down a Heldrake with one snap firing Lascannon (and I did the same to a Daemon Prince who was Enfeebled and a Stormraven carrying Crowe, and the ensueing explosion killed him), destroyed the Grey Knights, slaughtered a full wound Wraithknight with one of my Imperial Knights on 1 hull point, etc etc.

So? The only one here that might be considered OP is the Taudar, and they're overrated anyways, plus a ton of people who play it aren't actually very good players. But the actual broken combo armies in the game aren't on your list.

[DrBored]

Also... There was whining about the whining, the whining about the whining was denied, evidence of the whining about the whining was provided, and the whining about the whining has been proven to exist.

Can we continue with the conversation about the supplement now?

I love you right now.

But anyway! I will reiterate, I think the Supplement is worth it. When I get a chance to dig in, playtest some things, and get models on the table, I think we'll discover some pleasing things. Again, we can ally with not only Chaos Daemons, but also Chaos Marines, IG, and have a few Dataslates (Belakor and soon Helbrutes) to combine into it, which could produce some juicy, even some fluffy combinations.

Just gotta get some playtests in against not-Space Marines so I can see how good it is to have Fear for everything on my side of the table!

[Eldar_Atog]

I love you right now.

But anyway! I will reiterate, I think the Supplement is worth it. When I get a chance to dig in, playtest some things, and get models on the table, I think we'll discover some pleasing things. Again, we can ally with not only Chaos Daemons, but also Chaos Marines, IG, and have a few Dataslates (Belakor and soon Helbrutes) to combine into it, which could produce some juicy, even some fluffy combinations.


Lol, thanks :)

I'm on the fence about buying it right now. On one hand, some of the rules are things I could use with my Thousand Sons. They could use all the help they could get.

On the other hand, I have nothing invested in this Crimson Slaughter army. It sounds like they worship Khorne and he's always been the most boring of the chaos gods to me. Is their whole back story about a group of space marines that just fell to Khorne worship or is there more going on in the background?

[daboarder]

Lol, thanks :)

I'm on the fence about buying it right now. On one hand, some of the rules are things I could use with my Thousand Sons. They could use all the help they could get.

On the other hand, I have nothing invested in this Crimson Slaughter army. It sounds like they worship Khorne and he's always been the most boring of the chaos gods to me. Is their whole back story about a group of space marines that just fell to Khorne worship or is there more going on in the background?

they've fleshed the army out rather nicely. They are far less one dimensional than they were when dark vengeance dropped

[DrBored]

Lol, thanks :)

I'm on the fence about buying it right now. On one hand, some of the rules are things I could use with my Thousand Sons. They could use all the help they could get.

On the other hand, I have nothing invested in this Crimson Slaughter army. It sounds like they worship Khorne and he's always been the most boring of the chaos gods to me. Is their whole back story about a group of space marines that just fell to Khorne worship or is there more going on in the background?

Khorne actually has very little to do in their background.

Here's the long and short of it if you don't mind a little spoiler.

They cleared out a bunch of chaos cults, and started hearing voices. Well, the voices drove them a bit bonkers, so they cleared out more cults, and in the killing, the voices stopped... for a short period of time. So, they kept killing to quiet the voices in their heads, and as they got worse and worse, phantasmal apparitions started appearing on the battlefield, like poltergeists and such (explaining their 'Fear' effect in rules). The rest I'll leave for you to discover.

But yeah, they don't worship any particular Chaos God, it's just that during and shortly after they kill something is when they experience a brief reprieve from the voices driving them mad.

It was a fun read, explains their rules, and develops them nicely as an undivided group, in the thralls of Chaos without actively worshipping Chaos.

[bfmusashi]

I guess you cant read either mate. Of the above 10 quotes, 4 of then are from this thread (which has 30+ posts) and two of those are taken out of context to make them appear worse.
He only had to provide one example to prove his point. By your math he has provided four. Your condescension is unearned and belittles us both.

[daboarder]

He only had to provide one example to prove his point. By your math he has provided four. Your condescension is unearned and belittles us both.

really? so a single post is enough to go of on a diatribe that serves little purpose in the thread?

sure thing mate.

[DarkLink]

You have read daboarder's signature, right;). Besides, the condescending attitude a lot of people have for pissed off CSM players is just as bad. That's a sword that cuts both ways.

[daboarder]

You have read daboarder's signature, right;). Besides, the condescending attitude a lot of people have for pissed off CSM players is just as bad. That's a sword that cuts both ways.

hmm maybe it is time to change that one

[Tyrendian]

hmm maybe it is time to change that one

why? it's still true... ;)

[Eldar_Atog]

Khorne actually has very little to do in their background.

Here's the long and short of it if you don't mind a little spoiler.

They cleared out a bunch of chaos cults, and started hearing voices. Well, the voices drove them a bit bonkers, so they cleared out more cults, and in the killing, the voices stopped... for a short period of time. So, they kept killing to quiet the voices in their heads, and as they got worse and worse, phantasmal apparitions started appearing on the battlefield, like poltergeists and such (explaining their 'Fear' effect in rules). The rest I'll leave for you to discover.

But yeah, they don't worship any particular Chaos God, it's just that during and shortly after they kill something is when they experience a brief reprieve from the voices driving them mad.

It was a fun read, explains their rules, and develops them nicely as an undivided group, in the thralls of Chaos without actively worshipping Chaos.

Hmmm.. That is a lot more interesting than the little blurb people in my gaming group were talking about. Plus the ghosts following them around works well with my army of dust, ashes, and bone :)

[Mr Mystery]

Seems pretty well received this book.

And as a background junkie, I welcome anything which explores a new avenue to heresy! Chaos had become a little staid.

[DrBored]

Hmmm.. That is a lot more interesting than the little blurb people in my gaming group were talking about. Plus the ghosts following them around works well with my army of dust, ashes, and bone :)

Oh definitely. Divination + Fear + Thousand Sons + Tzeentch Daemon allies will make for a very powerful list.


Seems pretty well received this book.

And as a background junkie, I welcome anything which explores a new avenue to heresy! Chaos had become a little staid.

Oh yeah. I was actually surprised with the fluff here. I knew Chaos was pervasive, but reading the fluff you really get this feeling that it can work slow as well as fast. That's the beautiful thing about this fluff and this warband, is that the fall of the Crimson Sabres is slow, steady, and they show you every major decision along the way.

[DarkLink]

It also address a lot of CSM's weaknesses. Divination alone turns a lot of their units that were bad or mediocre into solid units. All they really need is to give the non-Fearless CSM some sort of ATSKNF equivalent (Stubborn, Fearless, something like that), and most of the problems go away.

[KrewL RaiN]

Oh yeah. I was actually surprised with the fluff here. I knew Chaos was pervasive, but reading the fluff you really get this feeling that it can work slow as well as fast. That's the beautiful thing about this fluff and this warband, is that the fall of the Crimson Sabres is slow, steady, and they show you every major decision along the way.

I loved the read too. They dont worship Chaos at all, yet Chaos goads them around and twists their minds.

[White Tiger88]

Wait can Crimson $#(@ers still take typhus and them? Because if you mix in possessed troops and plaguemarines....dear god!

[daboarder]

yes they can.

Only plague marines, Khorne bezerkers and noise marines may buy VotLW, but their is no restriction on units that already have it such as the thousand sons or the special characters.


why you think possessed are good I'm not sure though. They are essentially 26 pts assault marines to most things shooting at them or fighting them in combat

[White Tiger88]

yes they can.

Only plague marines, Khorne bezerkers and noise marines may buy VotLW, but their is no restriction on units that already have it such as the thousand sons or the special characters.


why you think possessed are good I'm not sure though. They are essentially 26 pts assault marines to most things shooting at them or fighting them in combat

Possessed have lots of melee attacks thats why i like them!

[daboarder]

they have 2 attacks, 3 on the charge. Exact same as an assault marine.


If you like them, then sure go for it.

[daboarder]

Someone being reasonable? It can't be.

*faints from shock*

- - - Updated - - -



Question.

If they don't worship chaos directly how come they have so many possessed?

Boofhead, **** off and find somewhere else to troll

[DarkLink]

Nids and CSM players will stop complaining when GW stops treating them like red-headed step-children. Which, considering the new toys in the Skyblight formation and this codex, might actually happen some day.

[DrBored]

If they don't worship chaos directly how come they have so many possessed?

Actually a legitimate question.

The 'Possessed' are those that have given themselves up to the temptations of the warp and have allowed daemons into their bodies. In some cases, it's the individual marine giving up to the voices in his head, in some cases it's the voices in his head convincing him that this is the right thing to do, and in other cases it's a ploy for more power so they can keep slaying their enemies.

You don't have to actively worship and prostrate yourself to the Gods of Chaos to receive blessings from the warps. The Gods of Chaos are very active in their meddling in that way, and there are many other kinds of daemons besides all very eager to get into the body of a Space Marine so they may reap a bounty of blood across the galaxy.

[Clockwork]

I read it more like the CS Possessed where people being possessed by the phantoms themselves as it tends to occur when the battle is at it's peak and the phantoms are running amuck with poltergeist style activities (leveraging objects, statues weeping blood, ect). It'd explain the different table as well.

[DrBored]

I read it more like the CS Possessed where people being possessed by the phantoms themselves as it tends to occur when the battle is at it's peak and the phantoms are running amuck with poltergeist style activities (leveraging objects, statues weeping blood, ect). It'd explain the different table as well.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Reading it again, I see there's even a part that mentions how sometimes the Possessed will return 'mostly' to normal after the battle.

[The Girl]

Two temporary bans and a closed thread in only 24 hours... calm it down, folks.

Don't argue with trolls. Report them, and go about your business. If you really, really, really need to pick that fight take it to PMs.

Thank you.