Disapointment with anticipated Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum releases.

[Harley]

So lately I’ve been pretty disappointed by GW’s releases and especially with this new Imperial Guard book. I’m not trying to offend anyone or incite frustration, but am instead just speaking my mind and own opinion. It’s a real downer when something new comes out that you’ve waited years for, and while you should be excited, counting the days and planning new purchases, you just kind of shrug your shoulders and look to alternatives.
Watching Games Workshop releases lately has been like watching a basketball game where one team keeps Michael Jordan and Shaq on the bench but in the meantime sends out Joe the Plumber in hopes that maybe he could have some hidden talent and bring something new to the team. New releases, like the Knights, are often crippled by self-imposed limitations such as the inability to ally with Chaos or lack of good rules, such as in the case of the new Hellbrute.

The IP has sooo much potential. GW has a virtual license to print plastic money. Players would buy up tons of Plastic Steel Legion, Guardsmen in greatcoats, Ollanius Pius, dynamically posed Marbo, not to mention the other ignored models/armies like Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Chaos Legions, or greater Daemonprinces (Keeper of Secrets anyone?). Besides Space Marines, these characters get some of the most attention from fans in the form of artwork, fanfiction, and chatter yet have been ignored for over a decade while GW is on it’s quest to find something new, the next big thing. However, like the Emperor on the Great Crusade, they seem to be forgetting the awesome things they still have around them… and like the Heresy, it’s biting them in the arse.

What I’m looking forward to :
First, the Storm Troopers look great. While I would have preferred more dynamic poses over the stocky, rugby player stances GW is typical for, these models were probably #1 on most serious Guard player’s wanted list. Hopefully the rules reflect this as currently Storm Troopers are some of the worst victims of Codex power creep and are outclassed point for point by most any 6th edition unit. Essentially you are paying 1 more point than a Space Marine per model for a soldier that has a worse armor save, worse stat line and less special rules, for a marginally better gun and optional special ability.
As far as the name change, it’s not a big deal. We all know it has to do with copyright and if it makes GW feel more secure, so a rose by any other name… I am only hoping that many of the issues with Infantry are fixed in this new codex as there are many quirks with the current book that make them operate sub par. Unfortunately I have this sinking feeling that Orders will change to a Once Per Game mechanic, to the detriment of the army, as Infantry lists are already underpowered and unfeasible.

What I’m not looking forward to:
As a tread head, a person who loves armored vehicles and owns almost 30 GW vehicles and tanks, I can honestly say the Taurox is not in the least bit appealing. The last thing the Guard needed is what appears to essentially be a support vehicle with a weapon strapped on it, which doesn’t fit the current aesthetic of the other vehicles. It will simply look out of place next to Leman Russ’ and Chimeras. I’m sure there will be claims of “wait, you’ve only seen one photo in a magazine, it will look different in reality”. That’s just it, it’s a professional photo of a professionally painted model in a magazine. If that can’t sell a model, then holding some black primed pile of plastic a player cobbled together at the FLGS is hardly going to be any more convincing. If the box art can’t sell me then it’s a failure as a marketing piece. If it doesn’t look cool it’s a failure as a model in a game which is intended to be aesthetically pleasing.

As for the Hydra Flakk tank, I’m on the fence. It looks great… but isn’t it too little too late? The flyers one really needs to worry about are armor 12, which a Str 7 Autocannon really has trouble being effective against (and at AP4 you have a 50% chance of being relatively non-effective even with a penetrating hit). Add in that they have evidently made it open topped makes this metal box even less appealing. Hopefully they will move this to Fast Attack as otherwise this Heavy Support choice is just another carrot in the way of your meat and potatoes; the big tanks of the Imperial Guard.
Lastly are, Ogryns, a unit which rarely ever sees play currently due to poor rules and expensive, outdated models. Is this what IG players were really wanting/needing, a quirky unit that most people don’t really ever talk about? With the new Ally’s rules in 6th edition, there are better close combat units easily available. A cheap Inquisitor with some Henchmen comes to mind, a unit which could easily take out a squad of Ogryn and look better while doing it or a Captain with some Assault Marines… the options are there. Maybe it’s a British thing but does GW really think that what players want is a new model of some flabby, fat, bald guys with make shift armor? If I want to see that I can go to the local LARP club night. Nurgle fans aside… these do not follow the Rule of Cool.

So unfortunately, GW has probably lost any sales to me on this entire new release despite the fact that I had actually held off buying any other new kits in anticipation. Dreamforge’s Eisenkern troops or Raging Heroes’ TGitG are just much more appealing than anything GW is coming out with lately and if it’s a matter of having GW tourney legal models I can just settle for the cheap plastic Cadians which GW has decided suffice for their primary IG troop choice, despite looking like something out of Space Balls.

So, not intended to ruffle any feathers but just find a common ear and put in my $0.25 and before anyone has the chance to say it, yes I'm waiting for the actual release comes out to pass any judgement but for now will not be putting any money on preorders and instead probably opting into Raging Heroes.

TL;DR, Not impressed or excited about what we have seen so far from new Imperial Guard. Won't be pro-ordering and wish that wasn't the case.

[magickbk]

I always withhold judgement until I see clear pictures of something, or get to see the model in person. Almost every recent release has suffered from instant hate, but it has turned out that initial pictures were at odd angles, or it was difficult to judge proportions with nothing to use to judge actual size, or the paint job wasn't very flattering.

The other thing to keep in mind is how much misinformation is in the wild even just a week or two before the books hits hands.

I will paint any model that is cool, convert anything that doesn't fit my theme, and just hope for good rules.

[Eldar_Atog]

I would suggest not making a rush to judgement. Just wait till the new rules are actually in your hands before you make any other buying decisions. For now, just save some money back and wait till after the stuff actually hits the stores.

We all know how it goes. You want your army to get a good release. It's easy to fall into the pre-release worry trap :)

[DarkLink]

You could make a WWII British themed army with the shortbus and praetorian guard, though.

[Arkhan Land]

I understand your frustration on some these releases, as people have said well hold off to see how the releases go for total judgement.

that said... yes, the New Figures/Army and the Taurox seems like a large un-aesthetically fitting fluff/Universe exspansion that seems unnecsary considering all most IG players wanted was plastic Hydras, Stormtroopers, and an Attack Fighter.

and yes, it sucks that some of the most clear winners for release as plastic kits wont happen now because of the similar products developed by 3rd party companies.

I hate to admit it but short of some real suprises we havent heard about,
it looks like the Imperium also has a Mycetic Spore sized hole in its release heart. Thank copyright lawyers everywhere.


We arent going to get plastic steel legion because too many companies make 3rd party gas mask heads. and thats the ******* truth.

while im personally not super bummed, let him be bummed i he wants to be bummed.

[daboarder]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_termsuse

no its not, there is no over the top exaggeration used to prove or highlight a point.


to the OP, if you really like the old regiments like vlhallans, steel legion, etc. Diver into 3rd party, its the only way you will be satisfied and some of the ranges are fantastic.

[Eldar_Atog]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_termsuse

And even if he is... Is your sarcasm going to help anything? All it does is make you appear to be a troll with nothing positive to add to the conversation.

The OP might be worrying about this a little too much but I can understand it. If he has been playing for a long time, then he has probably built up a large collection of guard models. You probably know how much of an investment a Guard army is in both time and cash. While other armies only have 30-40 models in a medium army, Guard can easily have 100 model count armies. Plus vehicles aren't cheap either.

Most of us have been there.. that's why the you see the general message of "Wait till the rules and models are actually in stores".

[daboarder]

Removed - http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_termsuse

I am scratching my head at the last statement though.....im not complaining about nids....because we got some nice fun and good options in the slates.....so do you expect me to complain when GW is fixing what they broke? Or do you just have a chip on your shoulder and were teying to insinuate that I was some sort of un fluffy WAAC gamer

Edit: oh and fir the record if you got more involved in the other parts of the hobby you would have seen some pretty positive nid posts

[John Bower]

Even if the vehicle is real and not a kitbash; I reserve judgement on that for now. I don't think from the rumours I'm seeing it's intended as part of the IG codex (sorry Astra Militarum; bog this I'm still going to call them Guard). It's for another codex entirely the Tempestus or whatever they're called. Now it does look as though some models do cross over (storm troopers for one) and that may be a GW thing of making more money from us. We'll have to wait and see on that till it/they are released and WD gives us more info.

[GrauGeist]

I don't much like the new truck. Nor the Ogryns. Nor the name change, so I'm largely with the OP.

My IG is Tallarn metal, and my armor starts with 1st gen Russ & Chimera kits. Thing is, the new truck won't even convert into something I'd want to field. It's terrible.

Oh well, my wallet is fine with that.

[lobster-overlord]

and this is also only the first wave. what about the possibility of more over the rest of the month?

[DarkLink]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_termsuse

Reported.

[Pyredragon]

I'm in agreement with you Harley in my worry about the fate of the IG codex.

Some things I disagree with you, I am excited to get new ogryns, I like the look and can't wait to make my own Sloth to protect da commanda! The Taurox, eh, I'm not sure yet... maybe I'll try making it into a halftrack or keep it a tread. I am guessing though that the speculation on the Hydra Flakk tank dual kit is off, my guess, it's gonna be packaged with Basilisks and honestly I think three of them should be sufficient to get my opponents out of my sky.

What I'm worried about though is the loss of options because GW doesn't put them in a box. Regiments getting stripped down to infantry and heavy weapons teams. Sgt Bastonne being removed from the book, one of my favorite heroes. I never considered orders becoming a once per game mechanic but thanks for that nightmare. The Leman Russ issues not being addressed. The possible removal of Rough Riders, another unit I adore.

All this has me on pins and needles. I shouldn't dread the release of my favorite army, the one that invokes memories of storming the couch with my army men.

I would like to recommend though Harley that you give this site a look if you're in the market for cool alternat sculpts. http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/ They also just released a 10 woman guard squad, which I'm picking up so I can add my own Lt. Mira to my ranks.

Also http://puppetswar.com/ is a great place for alternate bits and bobs.

Anyway, I want you to know you're not alone in being worried. Lets just hope all these fears are unfounded and we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief next month... and if all those nightmares come true... well, you can always play space marines with confidence that GW won't screw over their poster boys.

[Mr Mystery]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_termsuse

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4676542056237433&pid=1.7

[completeHook]

As regards the Taurus picture someone mentioned somewhere that it wasn't in the GW house style.

I've had a close look at it and I am inclined to agree with this.

GW only publish photographs of models on glass when they are presenting them as cut outs against a white background or against the abstract pattern on the new style boxes, they don't use glass when doing their diorama shots. The Taurus is shot against the battlescape background like the old box art has but has a reflection on the ground, it doesn't fit. Even if the image was was based on one originally shot on glass and the background added in the ground is usually obscured by swirls of dust.

More damning is this, it is unclear whether the dark line across the front of the turret is a shadow cast by the the punisher/assault cannon or part of the camouflage scheme. I know, it's a reproduction of a magazine page but look at the contrast between the highlight from the backlight and the dark area across the top and the bottom of the front of the turret. Follow the light cast from the backlight out of the frame to where the light is, now look at the line across the turret, see how it falls in the place you would expect the shadow from that gun to fall.

There are too many things wrong with this picture, I think it is a hoax.

[eldargal]

I too am disappointed. Disappointed it isn't a Dark Eldar release.

*drops mic, leaves*

[Harley]

no its not, there is no over the top exaggeration used to prove or highlight a point.
to the OP, if you really like the old regiments like vlhallans, steel legion, etc. Diver into 3rd party, its the only way you will be satisfied and some of the ranges are fantastic.
Thanks, I’m looking into some. Like I said, I was really hoping GW would use this opportunity to modernize some of their awesome older ranges in their IP. As a long time Sisters of Battle player as well, I have come to hate modelling and painting metal miniatures… all the chipping , bending and breaking if dropped. If only Valhallans, Steel Legions etc were plastic they would be worth a big investment.

I'm in agreement with you Harley in my worry about the fate of the IG codex.
Some things I disagree with you, I am excited to get new ogryns, I like the look and can't wait to make my own Sloth to protect da commanda! The Taurox, eh, I'm not sure yet... maybe I'll try making it into a halftrack or keep it a tread. I am guessing though that the speculation on the Hydra Flakk tank dual kit is off, my guess, it's gonna be packaged with Basilisks and honestly I think three of them should be sufficient to get my opponents out of my sky.
What I'm worried about though is the loss of options because GW doesn't put them in a box. Regiments getting stripped down to infantry and heavy weapons teams. Sgt Bastonne being removed from the book, one of my favorite heroes. I never considered orders becoming a once per game mechanic but thanks for that nightmare. The Leman Russ issues not being addressed. The possible removal of Rough Riders, another unit I adore.
All this has me on pins and needles. I shouldn't dread the release of my favorite army, the one that invokes memories of storming the couch with my army men.
I would like to recommend though Harley that you give this site a look if you're in the market for cool alternat sculpts. http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/ They also just released a 10 woman guard squad, which I'm picking up so I can add my own Lt. Mira to my ranks.
Also http://puppetswar.com/ is a great place for alternate bits and bobs.

Anyway, I want you to know you're not alone in being worried. Lets just hope all these fears are unfounded and we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief next month... and if all those nightmares come true... well, you can always play space marines with confidence that GW won't screw over their poster boys.
Thank you, Victoria miniatures has some really cool stuff. I really want those Inquisitors haha. :D

OP said "Unfortunately I have this sinking feeling that Orders will change to a Once Per Game mechanic, to the detriment of the army, as Infantry lists are already underpowered and unfeasible."This is an over the top exaggeration used to prove his point that the IG release is disappointing.
Actually it’s an observation based on every Imperial release in 6th edition, where special abilities have turned into 1 use per game mechanics, such as Adepta Sororitas acts of Faith, and Space Marine Chapter Tactics. It’s very likely that IG Orders will be handled the same.
Either way, if my opinion offends you, I made it very clear that was not my intention. While, like myself, you are welcome to your own opinion, there’s no need to be rude about it and openly hostile.

[Arkhan Land]

I hope we get back strategy cards so I can "look out sir" my commanders wounds, un-summon style!

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

um sm rules are not one offs.... only the ultra marines are everyone else gets to use them the entire game....

[ToHitMod]

And the Soroitas squads get one each to use each game, unless they take the Simulacrum for 10 points, its not a really Use Once ability. So, sorry, you weren't exaggeratingbased on nothing, you were exaggerating based on your incorrect assumptions about how other rules worked, so you decided to rant before you checked your facts, which is much better.

[DarkLink]

Which is a big red herring, because while technically you can get a second use, it's still extremely limited and overall a pretty bad ability. More importantly, this is all speculation. He is concerned that it might happen, because, yes, some abilities have become one use only or something similar. I personally wouldn't be too worried about that, but since this is just speculation there really aren't any facts to go off of, and it's perfectly fine to hold an opinion like that. Meanwhile, mods have already deleted one of your posts, and from your rhetoric in this post and in a couple of other threads it doesn't sound like you took that as a warning. Go read the forum rules, and come back for a friendly, civil debate on the matter. All you need to do is say "I disagree with you, and this is why", rather than "you're a ****ing *******".

[silashand]

I too am disappointed. Disappointed it isn't a Dark Eldar release.

*drops mic, leaves*

Well, there is that :)

To the OP, I too am disappointed. Not really keen on any of the new models except the Hydra, and I still think the FW one looks better. The Taurox is obviously meant to be an MRAP, but a really poor design attempt IYAM. I definitely won't be adding any to my army. I was really hoping for them to fill out the actual guard range in plastic because many of the non-Cadian regiments (particularly Steel Legion) are quite popular. Oh well, I guess I will wait on Dreamforge to release the rest of their APCs variants.

[Harley]

Well, there is that :)

To the OP, I too am disappointed. Not really keen on any of the new models except the Hydra, and I still think the FW one looks better. The Taurox is obviously meant to be an MRAP, but a really poor design attempt IYAM. I definitely won't be adding any to my army. I was really hoping for them to fill out the actual guard range in plastic because many of the non-Cadian regiments (particularly Steel Legion) are quite popular. Oh well, I guess I will wait on Dreamforge to release the rest of their APCs variants.

I agree. Beware the FW Hydra though as it is possible they may cease production on them with the new one available. They stopped making the FW Manticore after the GW plastic kit came out. Also, the barrels on the FW model are almost always terribly droopy or warped.

[This Dave]

I agree. Beware the FW Hydra though as it is possible they may cease production on them with the new one available. They stopped making the FW Manticore after the GW plastic kit came out. Also, the barrels on the FW model are almost always terribly droopy or warped.

Yes but when it was available you could get that kit and a Hydra platform and switch weapons between the two. Convenient!

[silashand]

I agree. Beware the FW Hydra though as it is possible they may cease production on them with the new one available. They stopped making the FW Manticore after the GW plastic kit came out. Also, the barrels on the FW model are almost always terribly droopy or warped.

I already have two of the FW ones and the barrels on both were fine :)...

I also have two platforms to be able to swap between them :D

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Salamander are not one use
Fists are not one use
raven guard are really not one use
white scars are not one use and iron hands are not one use...
forge world hapter tactics minus 1 chapter are not one use....

ultra marines are the only really one use them and the red hunters

i wish people would actually look at read a codex before they start to scream the sky is falling...
there is no reason to believe IG will suddenly be full of one use skills or powers... i for one am excited and will wait to read the book digest the rules and then i will formulate my opinion.. I refuse to be a lemming and just go over the cliff with the rest of the interwebs like the rest of people. (look at tyranids.. suddenly after a few formation which boost model sales they beomes vicious)

[Harley]

Salamander are not one use
Fists are not one use
raven guard are really not one use
white scars are not one use and iron hands are not one use...
forge world hapter tactics minus 1 chapter are not one use....

ultra marines are the only really one use them and the red hunters

i wish people would actually look at read a codex before they start to scream the sky is falling...
there is no reason to believe IG will suddenly be full of one use skills or powers... i for one am excited and will wait to read the book digest the rules and then i will formulate my opinion.. I refuse to be a lemming and just go over the cliff with the rest of the interwebs like the rest of people. (look at tyranids.. suddenly after a few formation which boost model sales they beomes vicious)

You are missing the point which was to use an example for illustrative purpose of an ability which was unlimited use being moved to a 1 time use in a new edition.

Do I think they will do this? No, I never said so. But I am concerned that it COULD happen, and hope it will not. As I stated, IG infantry lists are not currently viable and hopefully they will be again.

Humorously enough, rules were not the primary focus of my original post, yet it is what has been blown out of proportion the most. The main point is that the models are not very appealing, a problem which has been shared by many other IG fans. Even if the rules are AMAZING, the models won't sell us and as several have stated, will only leave us buying from Raging Heroes, Victoria, or Dreamforge. GW does have monitors which peruse forums, I hope at least a little of this trickles up to them... if at least the sales figures do not.

[Harley]

stuff

Let me know the next time you see an IG Infantry list win a GT, a local tourney, hell even a local league. Of course they are playable, they function, but do they do it well? No. For that matter, face a Tau infantry list against an IG infantry list and the Tau will win every time. That part of the codex is in sad need of updating. While I think it's fluffy that the only thing a platoon is good for is cannon fodder it is unfortunate for those who you see try to play these lists. Point for point every unit's role can be done by something else in the world of 40k, better and cheaper due to codex creep.

As for the models, I'm sorry my opinion and several others is different from yours. That is just how the world works, there's no reason to be rude about it.

[Harley]

... read through thread after thread of nothing but complaints gripes and general whinning on a grand sale over a minatures game...

Oh, but I thought you had yet to see this large portion which does not like the new models. :rolleyes: haha

As others have said, we know we can use other models, but we are disappointed in the new GW IG models (or lack of specific ones). Not sure why that doesn't sit well with you.

[DarkLink]

Yes because its so rude to not want to read through thread after thread of nothing but complaints gripes and general whinning on a grand sale over a minatures game...

Insulting people for having their own opinion is rude, and just as importantly against forum rules. Chill out.

[DrBored]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_termsuse

Complaining about complaining is just more complaining. You realize that right?

The Internet is great for complaining. It lets people vent their frustrations to people, whether they understand or not.

Getting all worked up about people complaining about a game is just as bad as people complaining about the game in the first place. Birds sing, rain falls, and people complain about stuff.

[DrBored]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/faq.php?faq=termsmaster#faq_termsuse

Wow, you are just full of rude. Since you really have nothing constructive to contribute, and clearly nothing nice to say, I think you're going right to Ignore Town.

[DarkLink]

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its probably a duck.

Kind of ironic. A little while ago, I told someone who sounded a lot like you "the first time someone calls you a horse, call him a jerk. Second time someone calls you a horse punch him in the nose. But the third time someone calls you a horse, well, maybe it's time to go shopping for a saddle."



if you think thats rude then thats your problem and not mine.

Actually, it's the mod's problem, which doesn't really bode well for the thread if it keeps getting trolled.

[MajorWesJanson]

Son of Romulous, there are plenty of civilized ways to express your dissent or opposition to an idea or opinion on the internet. What you are doing is shouting out incendiary language in the hope of provoking a reaction. You can't do that then claim the high ground. It's like lighting a house on fire then trying to claim you are a hero for getting the people inside out.

[DarkLink]

So, for one, you're completely missing his point. Secondly, while it may annoy you, people are allowed to have a negative opinion of a GW product, and they are allowed to discuss that opinion here, no matter how inconvenient you seem to find it.

[The Girl]

Gimme a break

Sure... 7 day ban enough for you? I can make that longer if you need more time to contemplate.

Everyone else: if y'all can get this back on the rails I'll leave the thread open.

[DarkLink]

No problem.

So, about them IG? The shortbus reminds me of a combination of a WWII truck (https://www.google.com/search?q=british+wwii+trucks&safe=off&rlz=1C1LENN_enUS484US484&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=U-4nU_OAAZPDoATvvYCACQ&ved=0CEUQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=653#q=wwii+trucks&safe=off&tbm=isch) and snow track (https://www.google.com/search?q=truck+snow+tracks&safe=off&rlz=1C1LENN_enUS484US484&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=cu4nU6TZM9TsoATCr4L4CQ&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=653)s.

[daboarder]

I always figured it was one of these

http://cdn.defencetalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Protected-Mobility-Vehicle-bushmaster.jpg

[Denzark]

It looks a little action force/GI joe to me - Snow Cat?

[Arkhan Land]

this might sound kinda dumb but, I dont know what it is about the design but whenever I look at the taurox I expect indiana jones to be climbing all over it before he kicks that ****'s butt, something about it reminds me of That truck

[SquigBrain]

It needs wheels. Desperately.

[This Dave]

It needs wheels. Desperately.

I really wish GW would come out with track units for vehicles that actually have clearance. These things with skirts that drag the ground have got to make for a REALLY bad ride.

[SquigBrain]

I really wish GW would come out with track units for vehicles that actually have clearance. These things with skirts that drag the ground have got to make for a REALLY bad ride.

Comfort is Heresy!

I'm imagining that the treads actually have some give to them, but that would mean that a Leman Russ couldn't cross a speed bump. :P

[Harley]

this might sound kinda dumb but, I dont know what it is about the design but whenever I look at the taurox I expect indiana jones to be climbing all over it before he kicks that ****'s butt, something about it reminds me of That truck

Yes THIS!

So does anyone have any good conversion ideas for the Taurox. Can't honestly see myself buying one but with the plethora of good 28mmish vehicles out there, there are bound to be some that would make a great replacement.