2,000 pts of THEMED Raven Guard

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Hey guys, I recently decided on Raven Guard as a new army to start. This is my first attempt at a list so I'm totally willing to break it apart and rebuild it. The purpose of this list is to be very themed. I have therefore tried to incorporate gunships, speeders, Jump Infantry, and scouts, while leaving out tanks of any kind. I won't ever use this army in a tournament, just friendly play for fun.

Shadow Captain Shrike (warlord) - 185 pts

Scout Squad x5 - 115 pts
Camo Cloaks
Sniper Rifles
Land Speeder Storm

Scout Squad x5 - 115 pts
Camo Cloaks
Sniper Rifles
Land Speeder Storm

Tactical Squad x10 - 200 pts
Veteran Sergeant
Flamer
Heavy Bolter
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad x10 - 205 pts
Veteran Sergeant
Melta Bombs
Flamer
Multi-Melta
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad x10 - 170 pts
Veteran Sergeant
Melta Bombs
Flamer
Multi-Melta

Vanguard Veteran Squad x5 - 190 pts
Jump Packs
1 Lightning Claw per fig
Melta Bombs

Vanguard Veteran Squad x10 - 255 pts
Jump Packs
x2 Grav-Pistols
Melta Bombs

Land Speeder Squadron x3 models - 215 pts
x2 additional Multi-Meltas
x1 additional Typhoon ML

Stormtalon - 140 pts
Twin-Linked Lascannon

Stormraven - 260 pts
Typhoon ML
Hurricane Bolters
Extra Armor

TOTAL = 2,050

So I'm 50 points over, not sure where to take it from here. My two biggest questions: does this list follow the fluff appropriately? And does this list win me a few games in some friendly match ups?

My intention is for the squad of 5 Veterans with Lightning Claws to go with Shrike and by my main melee combat unit. The Tac Squad without a transport is going to join the battle via the Stormraven (that's just so epic, I can't pass that up, especially cruising across the field and having the marines drop to the ground via Skies of Fury). The Scouts are just disruptors I guess, so perhaps I can skimp there...??

Thoughts?

[ElectricPaladin]

So, first of all, I don't recommend starting to learn list building at 2k. It's just way too easy to fit in all the expensive toys, and you get bad habits. Build your first lists at 1.5k. Heck - try building a 750 list! That is how you learn how to build lists in Warhammer 40k.

I'll come back in a minute with thoughts on your 2k list, though.

[ElectricPaladin]

Scout Squad x5 - 115 pts
Camo Cloaks
Sniper Rifles
Land Speeder Storm

Scout Squad x5 - 115 pts
Camo Cloaks
Sniper Rifles
Land Speeder Storm

Sniper/camo scouts are an odd choice for land speeder storms. Camo scouts want to sit in cover where their camo cloaks can give them a great cover save; storm scouts want to be in their ride (remember, you don't benefit from your camo cloak in a vehicle!). Sniper scouts want to sit in one place; storm scouts want to be scooting around (remember that sniper rifles are Heavy weapons and can only fire Snap Shots if you move). Remember that scouts have the Infiltrate USR, which means that they don't need a ride to get into position.


Tactical Squad x10 - 200 pts
Veteran Sergeant
Flamer
Heavy Bolter
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad x10 - 205 pts
Veteran Sergeant
Melta Bombs
Flamer
Multi-Melta
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad x10 - 170 pts
Veteran Sergeant
Melta Bombs
Flamer
Multi-Melta

I don't like multi-meltas in drop squads. You're going to need to hit with a snap shot if you want to come out of the drop pod and kill something. If you want to equip these guys to drop behind an enemy tank, you want to turn the flamer into a meltagun and give the sergeant a combi-melta. The multi-melta can stay - why not? You could get lucky - but you want a meltagun.


Vanguard Veteran Squad x5 - 190 pts]Jump Packs
1 Lightning Claw per fig
Melta Bombs

Vanguard Veteran Squad x10 - 255 pts
Jump Packs
x2 Grav-Pistols
Melta Bombs

Looks good to me. I don't use vanguard vets much myself - they're still really expensive in my codex.


Land Speeder Squadron x3 models - 215 pts
x2 additional Multi-Meltas
x1 additional Typhoon ML

Stormtalon - 140 pts
Twin-Linked Lascannon

Stormraven - 260 pts
Typhoon ML
Hurricane Bolters
Extra Armor

I like land speeder squadrons in single-purpose squadrons. I'd go all multi-meltas, or all typhoons, or whatever.

The storm raven is nice. If you're looking to free up some points, you can turn the extra armor into heavy bolters. Typhoon launchers are great, but you can save some points and still put a lot of bolter rounds into infantry.

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Thanks EP, I appreciate the feedback!

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Sniper/camo scouts are an odd choice for land speeder storms. Camo scouts want to sit in cover where their camo cloaks can give them a great cover save; storm scouts want to be in their ride (remember, you don't benefit from your camo cloak in a vehicle!). Sniper scouts want to sit in one place; storm scouts want to be scooting around (remember that sniper rifles are Heavy weapons and can only fire Snap Shots if you move). Remember that scouts have the Infiltrate USR, which means that they don't need a ride to get into position.

Yeah, I'm really not sure at all how use Scouts, never played them or against them. My thought is that they'll seem harmless enough that they can just sit somewhere most of the game and take potshots at who might be hurt the most by a lucky Precision Shot. In the meantime, after most of the carnage has happened, they are scoring and can grab an objective. As far as the LSS goes, I wasn't thinking of keeping them in there and shooting while moving, but rather using a turn to make sure they get good position, then I can use the speeder to zoom around and take a few more shots. If the speeder is still around by turn 5, it can pick up the scouts and transport them to objectives to score. But your point is well taken, I might just drop the LSS altogether.



I don't like multi-meltas in drop squads. You're going to need to hit with a snap shot if you want to come out of the drop pod and kill something. If you want to equip these guys to drop behind an enemy tank, you want to turn the flamer into a meltagun and give the sergeant a combi-melta. The multi-melta can stay - why not? You could get lucky - but you want a meltagun.


Yeah, wasn't exactly sure what to do here, since I feel like the marines are mostly going to be targeting other infantry. Heavy Flamers though aren't an option for tac marines. Part of me thinks it might be best just to save the points and not even get a heavy weapon, maybe doing like you said and getting a combi for the sergeant instead.


Do you think this list will be competent in some friendly games? My experience with Dark Angels is that marines die so easily in combat. I kinda feel like there's not much power to this list and that I'll have a hard time dealing with heavy hitters.

[ElectricPaladin]

Yeah, I'm really not sure at all how use Scouts, never played them or against them. My thought is that they'll seem harmless enough that they can just sit somewhere most of the game and take potshots at who might be hurt the most by a lucky Precision Shot. In the meantime, after most of the carnage has happened, they are scoring and can grab an objective. As far as the LSS goes, I wasn't thinking of keeping them in there and shooting while moving, but rather using a turn to make sure they get good position, then I can use the speeder to zoom around and take a few more shots. If the speeder is still around by turn 5, it can pick up the scouts and transport them to objectives to score. But your point is well taken, I might just drop the LSS altogether.

Scouts are... interesting. In an army defined by being hard to kill, they are quite squishy, so they tend to attract a lot of opportunity fire from weapons that wouldn't bother the rest of your army. They can score... technically... but they depend on cover to survive, and Ignores Cover is quite common in today's 40k.

I think you have the right instinct with sniper scouts. I've always thought that throwing scouts into combat is a waste of time. Sniper scouts can Infiltrate into position, somewhere they can threaten an objective, but still contribute to the battle. Just make sure to support them with more viable, durable threats, or they'll simply get wiped out!


Yeah, wasn't exactly sure what to do here, since I feel like the marines are mostly going to be targeting other infantry. Heavy Flamers though aren't an option for tac marines. Part of me thinks it might be best just to save the points and not even get a heavy weapon, maybe doing like you said and getting a combi for the sergeant instead.

So, the thing about Warhammer 40k is that one squad can only be in one place at one time. As a result, it's usually best to kit them out to take on one kind of target.

If you want an anti-infantry tac squad, I recommend flamer and heavy bolter. Apparently, the way the math works out, a heavy bolter firing snap shots is about as good as a bolter firing normally against most targets. The heavy bolters higher ROF will also make the squad better at taking charges in Overwatch. I agree that heavy flamers on tac squads would be awesome - they would instantly have been my choice for heavy weapons! - but alas.

Heavy bolters have the advantage of being... are they free in tac squads? Super inexpensive, in any case.


Do you think this list will be competent in some friendly games? My experience with Dark Angels is that marines die so easily in combat. I kinda feel like there's not much power to this list and that I'll have a hard time dealing with heavy hitters.

I think that your list is a good start - a sea of 3+ bodies, some cool toys, lots of scoring vectors. Your combat units are flexible and hard hitting, especially thanks to the effects of Raven Guard Chapter Tactics. I'd have to read a battle report to know for sure, though.

[Nabterayl]

Throwing this out there for consideration - how do we feel about trying to squeeze in a few locator beacons into the drop pods? Raven Guard jump troops can land within the locator beacon bubble, and next turn jump 12" and still have their jump packs available for a charge. I assume at least one of these vanguard veteran units is going to be paired with Shrike, but does this seem like a worthwhile capability to add? I don't know much about jump troops in practice, which is why I'm asking rather than recommending.

[ElectricPaladin]

Throwing this out there for consideration - how do we feel about trying to squeeze in a few locator beacons into the drop pods? Raven Guard jump troops can land within the locator beacon bubble, and next turn jump 12" and still have their jump packs available for a charge. I assume at least one of these vanguard veteran units is going to be paired with Shrike, but does this seem like a worthwhile capability to add? I don't know much about jump troops in practice, which is why I'm asking rather than recommending.

Limiting or eliminating scatter is always a good idea, if you can pull it off.

[Nabterayl]

I meant more like, what do people think of using that as a way to deliver the jump troops? As it stands right now, they're just deploying in the deployment zone (unless NSO's opponents are willing to let a squad infiltrate with Shrike, in which case I assume one of them is doing that most of the time). Intuitively that strikes me as not a great idea, but as I am primarily an ork player, I don't have a lot of firsthand experience with deep striking, so I might be missing something here.