Rate my Chapter 1498 points

[Xaric]

Deep strike squad (575 Points)

Chapter Master
Boltgun
Relic Blade
Artificer Armour
Swaping the Bolt pistol for The Primarch's Wrath
Melta Bomb

Libranrian
Mastary lv 2

Honour Gaurd (6)
Chapter Banner
Relic Blade (5)
Thunder Hammer
Drop pod

Ground Squad One (205 Points)
Tactical Squad (10)
Plasma gun
Multi-Melta
Sgt using Bolt pistol and Chainsword
Melta Bomb
Rhino

Ground Squad Two (113 Points)
Scout Squad (5)
Camo Cloaks (5)
Land Speeder Storm
Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support Squad One (290 Points)
Centurion (3)
Missile Launcher (3)
Twin-Linked Lascannons (3)
Omniscope

Air Support Squad One (125 Points)
Stormtalon Gunship
Skyhammer Missile Launcher

Air Support Squad Two (125 Points)
Stormtalon Gunship
Skyhammer Missile Launcher

Ground Support Squad One (65 Points)
Whirlwind


My own creation of a chapter using Salamanders Chapter Tactics under the name Shrouded Flame
They mostly are craftsmen and miner's as a chapter providing for the Imperium of man Rare ores for the production of master crafted gear but this mostly force's them into alien area's.

Main Enemy Orc's (They feel they are too reckless when they craft and it puts too much to waste)

Tactical Combat Doctrines (Fluffy Combat Doctrines)

These are more of Fluff rule set to make the game more interesting and are (optional).

You get to use each TCD once in the battle and you can only have one if you use one it will replace the old one and one must also be used by turn 3 or the unit will be branded. (Subjected to a punishment after the battle)

Following a TCD
Tier 1 the Unit gains 3 seals at the end of the battle.
Tier 2 the Unit gains 1 seal at the end of the battle.

Failing to Follow a TCD will Brand a unit this means they loose all seals in that battle and can not gain any. (Subjected to a punishment after the battle)

There is no Tome core TCD's due to he is part of the Chapter Keepers unit.

Artisan Core or Chapter Keeper
Spearhead Strike = The Chapter Keeper with his unit will deepstrike onto the battle in turn one to lead the strike.
Artisan Of the Forge = The Chapter Keeper or a Artisan can command any of the other Core's to Aid him.

Shield Core
Bunker Down = All units lead by a Member of the Shield Core on a objective will hold this till they are wiped out.
"We will be your shield Brother's" = A Shield core unit can leave his post to aid a unit of the Blade Core.

Blade Core
Impaling charge = All units lead by a Member of the Blade Core After deploying will mark a target to kill.
"Hold them in place My Brother's" = Killing targets that are attacking a Shield Core.

Fist Core
The Hammer = All units of the Fist Core wiping out a enemy unit.
The Anvil = All units of the Fist Core wiping out a unit that shot at another core but the unit of the core still stands.

Restrictions (fluff reasons)
No Terminator Armor to prove your worth to make it as a honour guard you must craft Artificer Armour as they feel terminator armour is too outdated and use centurion armour instead for non honour guard.
No Dreadnoughts let the dead rest they have for filled there duty in there eyes (respectful of there dead)
No bikes they feel they would struggle due to the chapter are made up of craftsmen and miners so mostly in areas with to much dangerous terrain so they use Land Speeders instead.
Scouts are very rare due to not being able to deal with the toxic's of some mining expedition so they stick to tatical marines.

When advicing me to Change's to the list please read the restrictions before hand and when rating provide a reason of its Pro's & Con's due to I could learn why they are or are not employed in a list or stuff I could just be missing that is important.

FAQ
As i am new to space marines i have some questions that i did not understand

Can models have both a bolt pistol and a boltgun as well as a melee weapon of sorts
Some wargear entry for CSM have in brackets but in the SM codex it does not.

Just to clarify if i am reading this correctly with Typhoon Missile Launcher they have 2 missles for the hole game?
I am assuming it does but unsure as i have never used flyers before.

Does the missile rule for flyers apply the same way to Missile Launcher tactical marines?
I am assuming it does not but just to check with everyone else i cant see any entry in my BRB.

Escort Craft rule
I dont understand it saids the unit must not be in deep strike but it will follow a unit that comes on? is there another method of bringing a unit onto the field other then deep striking please point me to the page.

I think thats all i got for FAQ ill update if more comes up.

[Anggul]

Yes, models can have multiple weapons. Bolt Pistol+CCW+Bolter is a great, versatile loadout for a model to have, as it means they're good at both range and close combat.

No, the Typhoon Missile Launcher is a weapon by itself, it's Heavy 2 so fires 2 shots per turn.

No, it's a flyer rule. Also it's important to note, as with the previous question, that Missile Launchers aren't 'Missiles', so that rule doesn't apply when flyers use them.

Look at the reserves and Outflank rules, Deep Strike is just a type of reserves. Most units in the game can choose to start off of the board and move on from your table edge when you successfully roll for their arrival as you do with Deep Striking. Think of Deep Strike as reserves but from almost anywhere.

[Xaric]

ah thank you for clearing that up for a sec there i was thinking no one was going to respond because i have a kit here and i dont want to assemble it till i know clearly about the rules

[This Dave]

As for the models with Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and CCW it is possible but nothing in the regular SM codex can get this combination that I'm aware of. Marines have to swap their weapons when they buy upgrades, so they can only have two at a time.

Other than that your list looks pretty solid. The only suggestion I would make (and this is based on personal preference not an expert opinion or anything) is to swap out the Missile Launchers in the Tactical Squads. You already have good heavy weapon support from the Centurions and air defence for the Storm Talons. Instead I would take something like Heavy Bolters (as they can be fired decently on the move even doing Snap Shots) or just give them Meltaguns or Flamers to both go with the Salamanders theme and they're effective against Orks.

[Xaric]

Sounds like a good idea dave but i might use a grav gun just need to work out the salvo rule insight would be also welcomed at the moment it sounds like a weapon designed for taking out units with high armour that normal would not normaly be able to hurt being AP 2 that is and wounding the the enemys armour value.

Ok updated them with grav guns changed the payload of the gunships and addid a whirlwind because pie plates = fun :)

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I like the theme behind the army and behind the restrictions you've put in place!

First of all, is this a list of a certain point value you are trying to actually use in a game? If so, there aren't enough troops to give you a fighting chance... If you aren't looking to using scouts or bikes, you will need lots of tactical marines to hold any objectives; maybe if your 3 squads were full 10 man units (then being able to combat squad) you would be better off...

Also with the tactical squads, you should equip the sergeant with a combi plasma to take advantage of the salamander chapter tactics where characters all get 1 master crafted weapon (this means you will most likes avoid 'gets hot!' on them too). I would drop the missile launcher with flak (it's way overpriced and means you have to dedicate the whole squad to shooting that air unit, which you'll probably miss anyway and only hurt with the one S7 shot) and add a plasma gun to match the range of the sgt's combi; with the rhino it's important to be able to fire and move the transport.

The Centurions should always have the omni-scope; split-fire is underrated and can be used for so many things, like popping 2 vehicles at once, or firing 2 models at vehicles and the third at a swarm (with its missiles firing as frag and not krak), etc - bottom line is find the points for it no matter what the load-out.

Stormtalons are great with almost any load-out but some will argue that the extra points for typhoon missiles over skyhammers aren't worth it. I like 3 S7 shots over 2 S8; that's up to you though and what you plan on shooting at (usually S7 is sufficient unless you're AV 12 or T8 hunting, which your Stormtalons probably won't be with your Centurions on the field).

You may have to check, but if the relic blade isn't two-handed, take a bolt pistol with it rather than bolter so you can get an extra attack.

The Assault Marines might be better off in a pod without jump packs so that you can just throw away that squad after using its double flamers just in case you don't want the Chapter Master's expensive pod coming in turn 1 - in that case, send it down empty or just drop it down to 5 and drop melta bombs but keep flamers? Honestly, it's hard to be effective with just one or two pods.

Hope that helps! I like the theme and concept so far though.

[Xaric]

Thanks for the advice The Clincher I will look into this as for points value no I am designing a armory system with my own chapter fluff they are broken up into 5 Chapter Cores.

Chapter Keeper (Grand Master)
Artisan Core (Leaders of the 4 cores)
Tome Core (Librarians, Techmarines)
Shield Core (Tactical Marines, Honour Gaurd)
Sword Core (Assault Squads, Stormtalon Gunship)
Fist Core (Centurions, Whirlwinds)
I was going to add a sixth core called Axe Core for super heavy's but we don't really have any. Might add this idea if i get my hands on some Knights. :P

The cores also have a internal rank system for Squad Leaders
Great-(Core name) (Sgt name)
Standard (Just for anyone belonging to the core)

The reason I did not give the sergeant a combi weapon is because I wanted him cheep but I thort the mastercraft can work for his chainsword?.

Now about the Omni-scope I did not even know it did that so I will most likely add that sounds like something I must have.

Stromtalons I made a update on them removed the typhoon missiles to free up points to get a Whirlwind when I found out it could fire even if it did not need a LOS for its low point cost it is a god send in my eyes.

Relic blade is two-handed I was going to take a bolt pistol but when I found this out might as well just take a boltgun.

As for the assault marines I was going to have them in reserves so I can use escort with one of my gunship's but I might lower the squad number and remove the melta bombs as I have enuth anti tank.

As for the drop pod due to sticking the Warlord in just a rhino it would get blown up before it got up the field so using deep strike tactics I can get a lib and CM with a unit full of melee and boltguns in there half range behind enemy lines that was my reasoning for it also pod coming in turn 1? I always thort deep strike had to come in on turn 2?

[This Dave]

Normally all Deep Strike reserves start on turn two. Drop Pods have a special rule that half of them come in on Turn one then the rest show up as normal.

[Xaric]

Sounds even better then they will spearhead the battle due to there high armor also rapid fire bolters as a distraction wile the tactical marines move up and secure the objectives. I put a Deathwind Launcher on the drop pod after all they hate orcs so that weapon suits its rule when the spearhead lands.

For this I will now add to my list Tactical Combat Doctrines (almost like the Ultramarines) special fluff rules in my army that co-exists with the rules in the codex to prevent rule braking its like i am making my own codex at this rate.

[Xaric]

I have updated the list from advice taken from this forum post
Combat squads can a unit of 10 in a rhino become 2 squads of 5 I can't seem to find this FAQ people was talking about or the page in the Codex.

Can I stick Space Marine helmet's on the scouts also I HATE PAINTING SKIN I can never get it right and put one shoulder pad on them would this be allowed or would people call it power armor?

[This Dave]

Sounds even better then they will spearhead the battle due to there high armor also rapid fire bolters as a distraction wile the tactical marines move up and secure the objectives. I put a Deathwind Launcher on the drop pod after all they hate orcs so that weapon suits its rule when the spearhead lands.

For this I will now add to my list Tactical Combat Doctrines (almost like the Ultramarines) special fluff rules in my army that co-exists with the rules in the codex to prevent rule braking its like i am making my own codex at this rate.

Don't waste the points on a Deathwind launcher for a Drop Pod. They seem like a good idea but they have one major flaw. Because they're a Blast weapon they can't fire on the turn they land as the Pod can only fire Snap Shots and you can't do that with a Blast weapon. Also as it's such a short ranged weapon you risk hitting your own squad on a scatter.

[Xaric]

ah i see ill change that right away then

[Dave Mcturk]

Don't waste the points on a Deathwind launcher for a Drop Pod. They seem like a good idea but they have one major flaw. Because they're a Blast weapon they can't fire on the turn they land as the Pod can only fire Snap Shots and you can't do that with a Blast weapon. Also as it's such a short ranged weapon you risk hitting your own squad on a scatter.

another great example of well considered and play tested rules ! :D

[This Dave]

Don't waste the points on a Deathwind launcher for a Drop Pod. They seem like a good idea but they have one major flaw. Because they're a Blast weapon they can't fire on the turn they land as the Pod can only fire Snap Shots and you can't do that with a Blast weapon. Also as it's such a short ranged weapon you risk hitting your own squad on a scatter.

another great example of well considered and play tested rules ! :D

Well, it worked okay when the model first came out last edition. And it is okay if you land a Dreadnought with the thing as even though it can't shoot the turn it lands it is unlikely to hurt the Dread if it scatters onto it. Plus the enemy is usually too busy with the Dread to bother with the Pod so it can start shooting things.

[Dave Mcturk]

like ooh look drop pods and content for my fire dragons to fry... :cool:

[Xaric]

dave i take it you meen helturkey right? this is why i bring gunships

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

i've always run deathwind missiles on my pods its a choice and if you play them agressivly then move your troops away you can use them to clear away hidden troops and actually make your opponent deal with them... 2 shots from a storm bolter is meh a large blast even with only 12 in range can still casuse some serious damage and if you drop that in the middle of you opponents lines they now have to deal with it before it gets to shoot heck one template can make its points back in a heartbeat

[Xaric]

Ok now I am wondering should I take the centurion devastator squad or just a devastator squad? The reason for this for my troop choice I have no multi-melta and the only way to get one is by buying a devastator squad kit so it is buy that and have spare parts with the centurion devastator squad (that **** is expensive yo) or just stick with a Devastator squad.

Setup so far i have:

Centurion Devastator Squad 290 points
3x Missile Launchers
3x Twin-Linked Lascannons
Omniscope

Devastator Squad 245 points
10x Space marines
2x Lascannons
2x Missile launchers
Rhino

I have got rid of the whirlwind and replaced it with a Imperial Bastion with a Icarus Lascannon (110 points) for the Sgt to use and the rest of the Devastators sit on top with him have the other 5 spaces marine combat squad and put them in the Rhino for added firepower or if I get the mission that heavy can hold objectives not sure if this is braking any rules never really used combat squads or fortifications if someone could clear that up that would be great.

The reason for it the weapons can all fire at the same range I have a question can the Icarus Lascannon fire at another target from the rest of the squad or do they still shoot at the same target also if I intercept a unit coming in via reserves can the other members of the unit still fire? or do they just fire at the unit that was intercepted?

[Gleipnir]

Ok now I am wondering should I take the centurion devastator squad or just a devastator squad? The reason for this for my troop choice I have no multi-melta and the only way to get one is by buying a devastator squad kit so it is buy that and have spare parts with the centurion devastator squad (that **** is expensive yo) or just stick with a Devastator squad.

Setup so far i have:

Centurion Devastator Squad 290 points
3x Missile Launchers
3x Twin-Linked Lascannons
Omniscope

Devastator Squad 245 points
10x Space marines
2x Lascannons
2x Missile launchers
Rhino

I have got rid of the whirlwind and replaced it with a Imperial Bastion with a Icarus Lascannon (110 points) for the Sgt to use and the rest of the Devastators sit on top with him have the other 5 spaces marine combat squad and put them in the Rhino for added firepower or if I get the mission that heavy can hold objectives not sure if this is braking any rules never really used combat squads or fortifications if someone could clear that up that would be great.

The reason for it the weapons can all fire at the same range I have a question can the Icarus Lascannon fire at another target from the rest of the squad or do they still shoot at the same target also if I intercept a unit coming in via reserves can the other members of the unit still fire? or do they just fire at the unit that was intercepted?

Since your talking Salamander chapter tactics here, Centurion Devastators are able to move and shoot where standard less expensive Devastators tend to remain immobile in cover to be effective.

Imperial Bastion is okay for a Fortification, I prefer an Imperial Bunker w/ an emplaced Quad Cannon on the battlement(Less expensive, I give up an Emplaced Heavy Bolters fire arc + 2 model fire point for 2 forward fire points that accommodate 6 shooters rather than the 2 you get from a Bastion facing), keep in mind an opponent can destroy a building but typically can't destroy cover, which is one of many reasons defense lines remain popular.

A model in base contact with the Icarus Lascannon can use it instead of its own shooting attack, if it uses it to Intercept it cannot fire in the following shooting phase, if it uses gun emplacement during the shooting phase it would fire at the same unit as the rest of the models in his unit, unless it had a rule that allowed him to do otherwise, Split Fire for example. Keep in mind that if you are using the updated building rules in Stronghold Assault, a Lascannon turret on a battlement is now an emplaced weapon so is fired from inside the building not its battlement(which is no longer for rules purposes considered part of the building itself, but treated as topmost level of ruins that is treated as an access point to the building it is a part of.)

[Xaric]

The other reason I am taking the IB is because I have 2 ML and 2 Lascannons and I needed the Sgt to have something with equal or more range so he doesn't become a wasted shot the other 5 marines I plan to now stick them in a razorback as a combat squad at least they can capture objectives if I roll the mission that heavy selections can hold objectives if not just have them add shots. But 5 models that can destroy a AV 14 model at 40+" is what I need them for.

Also wound count The main problem with centurions they are 3 models that's 6 wounds wile if I take a devastator squad I get 3HP for the razorback and 10 wounds on top means more body's that can fire also more wounds to soak up before they feel they can get to objectives on my side.

I have one question fluff wise can I say they drop pod the IB as a outpost to start a search for rare ores and what not I love having the narrative in a game it makes the game feel less static and more fun.

[Xaric]

Ok now for the final product i did some changeis to the list as a hole so i felt the need to post a brand new fresh part of my list hope you guys like it

Chapter Master (200 points)
The Primarch's Wrath
Relic Blade
Artificer Armor
Melta Bomb

Libranrian (90 Points)
Mastary lv 2

Tactical Squad (205 Points)
Space Marine Sgt with Space Marines (4)
Plasma Gun
Melta Bomb
Space Marines (5)
Multi-melta
All in a Rhino

Scout Squad (113 Points)
Scout Sgt with Scouts (4)
Camo Cloaks (4) (The kit olny came with 4 and i refuse to buy another box just for 1)
Sniper Rifle (5)
Land Speeder Storm

Vangaurd Veteran Squad (250 Points)
Veteran Sgt with Veterans(4)
Jump packs (5)
Storm Shield (4) (The kit olny came with 4 and i refuse to buy another box just for 1)
Plasma Pistol (4)
Grav-Pistol
Relic Blade

Stormtalon Gunship (125 Points)
Skyhammer Missile Launcher

Stormtalon Gunship (125 Points)
Skyhammer Missile Launcher

Devastator Squad (280 Points)
Space Marine Sgt with Space Marines (4)
Lascannon (2)
Missile Launcher (2)
Space Marines (5)
Razorback
Stormbolter
Hunter-Killer Missile

Imperial Bastion (110 Points)
Icarus Lascannon

Tactica
The chapter master will join the unit in the Razorback making it full troop cap with his mastercraft bolter and the other 5 space marines they all share the same range. The Devastator Squad will sit on top of the Imperial Bastion with the Sgt manning the Icarus Lascannon as a primary anti-tank unit the Librarian will join them up there to provide supportive ability's to stop enemy's assaulting them also able to man one of the bolters putting the Bastion at full use.

The Rhino and Razorback will come in from reserves being escorted by both Stormtalon Gunship. The Vanguard Veteran Squad will deep strike behind enemy lines to lay on the hurt and possible distraction units and with the stormshields can hope to live long enuth for the rest of the units to move up.

The scouts will camp half way up the field using a ruin to snipe key targets and the land speeder storm will be the harassing unit.

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

Scout Squad (113 Points)
Scout Sgt with Scouts (4)
Camo Cloaks (4) (The kit olny came with 4 and i refuse to buy another box just for 1)
Sniper Rifle (5)
Land Speeder Storm


The kit actually comes with a "rolled up" cloak that can go on top of the one guy's back, so you do get enough (and I don't actually think you can choose anymore to NOT equip the entire squad in the new codex; it says you may give the squad cloaks for 2pt. per model... I am pretty sure, I'll check). Also, I don't think a landspeeder for the heavy weapon scouts (rifles are heavy) is good because they can't shoot well if in it, and if it's on it's own, it's just gonna die and not do much. I'd drop it or put it with a 5-man close combat/combi melta & bomb unit, or bolter scouts (remember open topped; you can shoot out of it or assault out of it). I'd then equip it with a heavy flamer if filled with bolter scouts, or multi melta if a melta squad.

As for the devs on the bastion, I'd give them all lascannons because of the range difference. They don't have an option to move closer, and if you play "hammer and anvil" you won't have range to vehicles castled up in the far edge of their board with the missiles (skyrays, IG tanks & artillery, etc.)

I've only had luck with hunter killer missiles in mass numbers... otherwise they are a pretty big points sink in my opinion... I'd drop 'em. Instead, I'd give the razorback a better weapon, like t-link las or las/plas combo.

Not sure if you can put the vanguard vets in a dedicated transport or not, but if you are planning on deep striking them, consider a drop pod instead. Although the jump packs give them mobility once on the ground, they arrive all "bunched up" and you could get wiped by large blast templates right away; with a pod, you can at least spread out to avoid such a thing. Also, the pod is MUCH more forgiving in terms of mishaps, landing in terrain, etc. Against intercepting riptides you'll want to disembark the pod as close to them as you can so they can't put that template on you - just a thought. Also for the vets, if they can all take grav pistols, I'd do that over plasma (not sure if they can), it's better almost 100% of the time when in pistol form. You can then hit a wraithknight pretty hard actually if you drop right on him (T8) or immobilize a vehicle. Also, since you have a bunch of points already invested in them, you might want another good weapon in there so you can actually contest with a high toughness model in close combat - add a p. fist or axe in there.

For the Tac squad(s) I prefer a combi-plasma on the sgt. rather than a multi melta because it matches the the range of the other plasma gun, and gets you some precision shooting (while the rhino moves).

[Xaric]

Ah just found it really hard to tell what it was at first glance

[Gleipnir]

Tactica
The chapter master will join the unit in the Razorback making it full troop cap with his mastercraft bolter and the other 5 space marines they all share the same range. The Devastator Squad will sit on top of the Imperial Bastion with the Sgt manning the Icarus Lascannon as a primary anti-tank unit the Librarian will join them up there to provide supportive ability's to stop enemy's assaulting them also able to man one of the bolters putting the Bastion at full use.

Problem with this, if you are playing with BRB Fortification rules instead of Stronghold Assault, the Librarian needs to be inside the IB to manual fire its Heavy Bolter, thus would not be able join the units on the battlement,

If you are using Stronghold Assault rules everything would need to be inside the IB to manual fire the Heavy Bolter and the Icarus Cannon but the IB only has additional Fire Points for 2 models typically to a facing

[Xaric]

i dont have stronghold assault so thats all good :D

[Gleipnir]

Sadly you may as well learn to play with it, since its likely to become standard in the BRB as well very soon.

[Xaric]

Haven't you heard the next rule book will be a set of core rules these books like escalation will be extensions to the rule books because from what has been going around the 7th edition book will be like the same cost of a codex.