Half-cooked house rule overhaul requiring feedback before testing.

[Telepfenion]

As a foreword, this post is part of attempt to clear my mind about subject so I could progress to other projects. There has been few elements I have found puzzling for long time but trigger to make this dominant was talk that tried to say that helmets are pratically useless in 40k because so many low AP weapons around. Last straw, I guess.

2nd edition would be my choice should its supplies in good condition be more easy to get across. Terminators were real horrors on battlefield, and so was Howling Banshees if they got to combat, Imperial Guard just kept shells raining down and so on. Quantity wasn't automatically better than quality.

But I also like 6th edition, even though most newer codexes still remains unfamiliar for me. There is some units I just don't like (Wraithknight, Centurios, Necron Barges etc) because they feel out of place but that isn't the point out here...

My focus was locked to shape things a bit, giving bit more weight to off-table, alter few odd-spots and give forces more personal feeling - and make helmets count.

Any feedback and notes are welcome - as well as point change suggestions as lack of solid knowledge would do no good - before making summary of all. Once about solid, chances that rest of group will accept to at least play-test them are notable higher. Thank you for your aid.

So it begins...

Shooting Phase
Cover saves: Cover saves are additional save model can take after failed armour or invunerable save result.

This will benefit melee forces as well as armoured forces due additional protection. One of those things even rest of group have find bit odd; yet another save is simpler than Ballistic reductions as used in WHFB.

Assault Phase, Fighting sub-phase
All attacks hits on 4+.
Side with higher Weapon Skill gains additional attacks equal to difference of Weapon Skill values. If splitting attacks against multiple enemies with various Weapon Skills, use highest Weapon Skill present for purpose of extra attacks.

Weapon skill is rather marginal statistic to compared others. In 2nd edition, it was critical to determine who got beaten and how badly - mechanic is rather slow, though, so it won't suit conflicts with high model count. Changed variant would give elite unit some boost against weak masses, thus balancing Quality vs Quantity issue.

Unit Types
Cavalry
Movement: Cavalry may move up to 12”. When moving through Difficult Terrain, cavalry doubles distance rolled.

6th edition oddball - why mounts are treated like vehicles? Mounts are more or less auto-piloted and self-aware transport without intention to accidentally crash objects.

Sky Infantry
Examples: Vespids, Swooping Hawks, Gargoyles, Winged Ripper Swarms
Sky infantry follows rules of Flying Monstrous Creatures with following exception: Sky infantry does not have Swooping Hunters, Dive, Grounded Tests nor any special rules listed for Flying Monstrous Creatures.

While Swooping, Sky Infantry have Far from the Ground, Flock Block, Jink, Skyfire and Vector Dancer special rules.

Far from the Ground
Flying unit is always considered being in open, it can't 'go to ground' or provide cover for other units. Additionally, unit may not hold or contest objectives.

Flock Block
Flying Sky Infantry may only assault flying enemy target normally impossible to be assaulted. All attacks performed have Gets Hot special rule. Should either side fail morale check, unit is Grounded instead Falling Back. Regardless the outcome, side who assaulted consolidates.

Bikes
Jet Bikes
Jet Bikes may be treated as Sky Infantry.

Vehicles
Skimmers
Take the Height
Non-heavy skimmers may optionally take height, which must be declared before moving. Until beginning of player's following turn, vehicle ignores dangerous terrain, even if skimmer starts or ends within it, is Hard to Hit (see Flyers) and may not be rammed or assaulted.

However, skimmer gains no cover from terrain or other models nor can provide cover for other models. Additionally, vehicles Ballistic Skill is reduced to 1, it may not ram, no passanger may shoot or assault while vehicle has Take the Height and if it becomes Immobilized, Wrecked or Explodes, it will Crash and Burn (see Flyers).

Third dimension - airspace - has become rather active. However, as far as I know, all flying non-monstrous creatures or fliers still act like ground-bound beings. Just because flying isn't automatically better option than not, option should be still there. After all, many flyers can act as skimmers, even that isn't optimal for them, either... Wonder if this has something to do with the fact that these options mostly affect only Xenos forces?

Psykers
All psykers are considered having Auspex special rule.

Deny the Witch
Voluntary test between psyker and target iniated by target.
Both Psyker and target(s) roll d6 and add their psyker levels to result.
- If Target rolls equal or better, power does not affect that model.
- If Psyker rolls higher, Target is affected by power and suffers Perils of the Warp.
- Character with Psychic Hood successfully Denies the Witch, all models in same unit are considered as they would have succeed as well, even if not tried.
- If multiple Psychic Hoods are present in same unit, one success is enough to negate all
harm, including Perils of the Warp caused by failed tests.
- Brotherhood of Psykers act together like single psyker, independent character within their unit does not benefit from success unless brotherhood also have psychic hood.

Deny the Witch is one of the rules causing lots of arguments, and seen sort of unfair because using psychic powers already means that one is invested points for psyker who risks own safety to use its powers that one couldn't even choose freely. Warp should be dangerous.

Now... Anyone is free to try to Deny the Witch as prior but with twist: Failure will most likely kill non-psyker. This also helps sorting out affected and non-affected models within unit, as usually only non-affected remain.

Altered / New Universal Special Rules
Forward Deployment
Units using Forward Deployment aren't deploymend during normal deployment. After all other forces are deployed but before rolling who goes first, unit with Forward Deployment may be placed anywhere on table as long as they more than 12” away and Out of Sight of their enemy or futher than 18” away and seen. If both sides have units using forward deployment, roll a dice to see who goes first.

Forward Push
After rolling Who Goes First but before first Start of the Turn, all units with Forward Push can perform single move action. Simply treat this Turn 0 Movement Phase in which only units with Forward Push special rule can move .

Infiltration
Infiltrators may be places as using Forward Deployment special rule. Alternatively, infiltrators without dedicated transport may be placed in Ongoing Reserve.

Unit that has any weapons with Silenced special rule can use those during shooting phase while unit is still in Ongoing Reserve. Place one model to any single terrain feature. This model is mere marker and used only to determine ranges, covers and Lines of Sight for shots of hidden snipers. This doesn't affect where unit may be placed once it is revealed.

When infiltrators arrives from Ongoing Reserves, they are technically revealed, wanted or not. Player nominates single terrain feature and place unit there in normal unit coherency. No model may be placed within 2” of any enemy vehicle or flying models or within 6” of any kind of other enemy units. If unit cannot be placed anywhere on table, it is automatically destroyed.

Revealed unit may not move during movement phase on turn they are revealed but otherwise they are free to act (shoot, assault etc) as normal.

Scout
All units with scout special rule have also Infiltrate and Outflank special rules.

Instead rolling Reserve roll while outflanking, player may try Counter opponent instead. Unit will roll 2d6 and if result is equal or less than number of models with Scout special rule in unit (capped at 10), test success. If test fails, unit loses models equal to difference test failed.

For each successful counter unit, player may force opponent to re-roll one Reserve roll during opponent's next turn. This may be used to prevent reinforces to arrive or to reveal infiltrated unit still hiding.

One Man's Army
Gives Outflank special rule. Model may Counter opponent's reinforces (see Scout special rule) and is always considered being ten models strong for purpose of Counter test.

Acute Senses
Acute Senses add 6” to distance where no revealed enemy infiltrators can be placed. Acute Senses have no effect while model is embarget or flying.

Auspex
No revealed enemy infiltrators can be placed within 12” from model with Auspex.

Mechanic Sight
Model is immune to effects of Blind.

Silenced
Unit that is hit with silenced weapon must take Pinning test with 3d6, ignoring lowest. Silenced special rule has no effect once unit is revealed.

Sniper
Sniper weapon have Precise Shot, Rending, Silenced, Split Fire and Careful Aim special rules.

Careful Aim
Model may reduce its Ballistic Skill to minimum of 1 and target will suffer equal penalty to their cover saves. Alternatively, if model or weapon has also Rending special rule, model may increase Rending level equal to Ballistic Skill penalty instead reducing target's Cover save.

If multiple models in unit use this special rule, all models with same Ballistic Skill and target must use same penalty and effect.

These special rules are made to enchant off-table and surprise elements within the game - and counter them. Sniping becomes actual threat, so does pinning until snipers are revealed. And usually same units, that can have those sniper rifles are often the ones most suitable to reveal them. Note that snipers aren't automatically wounding enemies on 4+ anymore, so one must usually sacrifice some of accuracy if trying to harm tough target.

Rending
To Wound roll of 6+ always wounds model with toughness value while armour penetration rolls of 6+ cause additional d3 points worth of penetration. All rending hits have AP 2 unless original value is better.

Each extra level of rending adds +1 to Wound roll total to determine whenever hit rends. If total is 8+ for man-sized or 10+ for Monstrous Creatures, shot is counted having Instant Death special rule as well. To Wound roll of 1 always fails to rend, regardless bonus added to roll.

For example Rending (+2) causes Rending wounds on 4+ and has Instant Death on result of 6. It is still not potent enough to instantly slay Monstrous Creature.

This is used to bring extra punch for sniper shots carefully aimed. However, it works with other weapons too, similar to boosted Killing Blow in WHFB. I could image that genestealers would easily have rending +1 or +2 and Nemesis Force Weapons rending (+4) against daemons for example.


Generic Items and Strategems
Power Armours (Includes terminator armour etc)
All failed armour saves made with power or terminator armour are are re-rollable.

This would heavily increase survival of marines etc and act like walking tanks, shrugging off all but most dense small-arm fire. Again, quality to quantity issue being pushed towards quality. Effect between scouts and battle-brothers would be notable.

Helmets
All models wearing helmets gains +1 to their cover saves against blasts if Gone to Ground.

Going ground against centered bombardment would become more reasonable option. I bet more marine sergeants would learn to wear their helmets too! Or at least carry them with model...

Pre-Set Objective
Player may have any number of Pre-Set Objectives for 100(?) points each
When placing objective, player may nominate which strategem object has instead mysterious object being randomly rolled later on.
Player may nominate only objects he or she places, not what opponent places.
Because lists are made prior the mission is rolled, it is fully possible that player may not use all or even single Pre-Set objective he or she has invested in.

Paying points to ensure that receiving AA-nest, better cover or maybe proof that opponent won't place too many models top of objective thus ensuring open zone for Deep Strike later on etc.Of course, you may pay for nothing.



Armies

Tyranids
Endless Swarm
There is no way to count them. There is no way to miss them.

All units of Hornagaunts, Termagaunts, Gargoiles and Ripper Swarms have Endless Swarm special rule while within Synapse range. Endless Swarm have following effects:
- Excluding template weapons, every shot against swarm hits automatically.
- No cover saves can be made.
- At end of any phase, unless unit is completely wiped out, all slain models are replaced back to unit.

Flying Synapses
Synapses at ground won't cover flying creatures and visa verse.

Tyranids are said to come in swarms one simply cannot miss. Endless Swarm would be rather simple way to illustrate the horde. They lack two defensive layers of protection but should even single model survive, all firepower directed to them was not enough to slow the swarm. This special rule would allow Tyranids to be played totally differently than other armies while still staying loyal to backstory.

Necrons
Living Metal special rule
- No extra dices can be rolled for penetration rolls.
- Any hit with strength above 8 is reduced to 8.
- All penetrating hits are reduced to glancing hits on 2+ unless caused by template or blast weapon.
- All penetration rolls causes loss of d3 hull points instead normal effect.
- Slow and Purposeful (Walkers only) and Deep Strike special rules.
- It Will Not Die special rule, but roll d6 for each lost hull point instead just one

Idea is that all Necron forces that aren't flayed ones would become walkers or skimmers. For example...

Necron Warriors
Armour 10/10/10 Walkers squadrons, max 3 vehicles per squadron
May claim objectives
Each 'Walker' has 8 / 12 hull points (Warriors acts as wound tokens) and 6 / 9 attacks.
4”x2” base for 8 hull points, 4”x3” base for walker with 12
Weapon: Salvo Remaining Hull Points x 2 / Remaining Hull points (Technically rapid fire
Living Metal special rule

Another army that could work completely different from other forces. Marching forward n formation, simply ignoring most of incoming fire. As immune to anything with strength 3 or less, it could turn up difficult matchup for poison-heavy forces.

Orks
Waaaagh!
As long as Ork Warlord is alive, player may call Waaagh at any part of any player's turn. When doing so, all orks gains bonus attacks equal to remaining wounds, +3 to run or charge distance rolled and And They Shall Know No Fear special rule. Waaagh last until beginning of next player's turn.

This would allow ork player notable boost for combat capacity and / or prevent forces from fleeing and being cut down after destructive turn.

Mobbed Waaaagh
Units with model count less then eleven may use their number instead leadership value.
Units of eleven or larger gain Fearless.
Units of sixteen or larger gain Counter-Assault
Units of twenty-one or larger gain Fleet
Units of twenty-six or larger gain Crusader

While warlord is key to unleash army-wide Waaagh, bigger the mob, bigger the benefits. All these abilities would allow orks to push forward while on foot and would encourage player wield larger mobs.

Dedicated Trukk Transport
Mobs may have up to 3 Trukks as dedicated transport.
These trukks acts like squadron; all orks must embark or disembark at same time
When (emerancy) disembarked, mob must be placed in unit coherency.
If not possible, mob is split
Splinter mobs acts like own units but uses original mob size to determine if below half strenght etc.

As far I'm aware, lack of big mobs is usually due lack of trukk's transport capacity. 6" disbarking radius from opentopped vehicle allows unit coherency quite effectively.

All (Chaos) Space Marines
Models with power or terminator armour wearing helmet gains Auspex and Mechanic Sight

Did I mention issue with helmets? Those aren't around just for trophy collecting. Anyway, both added rules adds layer of extra protection as ambushing marine of any kind would become rather difficult as well as immunity to blind, which would becomes really lethal when combined altered close combat.

Chaos Space Marine
Legion tactics
How their tactics work in Horus' Heresy if any?

Eldar
Witch Blades and Shining Spears to have Strength x 3 instead Armourbane Seriously... Armourbane works fine if one or two hits to be dealt with it, not when dozens...

Reserve Nanipulation
Roll all reserve rolls at once, and spread results as wished. Any Counter re-rolls caused by opponent are affected once spreading is done.

Similar to one Eldar had in Planetfall. Ability to get sneak-peaks to future surely helps with proper timing

Vyper Jetbikes
Vyper Jetbikes to follow moving rules of Jetbikes instead Fast Skimmer
Ability to replace turret with platform for free – platform would give vyper transport capacity of 1.
Guardian Jetbikes being able to include one Vyper Jetbike for each four jetbikes squad has.

Not sure why Vypers are kept as poor man's landspeeders, even though more like attack bike or personal transport.

Harlequin's Kiss
Ignore this one. I just think Fleshbane, Monofilament and Instant Death would make Kiss reflect lore far better than current rending...

Imperial Guards
Special Weapons
Plasmaguns and Meltaguns limited only for Platoon or Company command and Storm Troopers. Democharges would become available for all units with special weapon choice.

Plasma and melta weapons are rare stuff but yet single veteran squad can wield more melta than tactical squad of Salamanters if understood right. Democharges are deadly yer inaccurate while easy to access... Perfect for troops like Imperial Guard. Again, quality over quantity issue.

List of Commands
Various commands for Junior (and thus Senior) officer to pick their like. Basically forming army's doctrines. Because affects one unit at time, and no more than one command per officer can usually given unless lucky command call, commands tend to balance themselves out rather nicely.

Written some ideas up when there was conversation about "What you wish to see from coming IG codex" and it my attention escaped that direction then. But from shooting to close combat and getting reinforces to AA-training and bombardments...



Dunno. In general, power armoured forces will become extremely durable, melee specialists far more lethal - daemons will love their fear ability, should enemy subject for it... IG would get even more versitality, (Dark) Eldar and Tau become fast with grav-tech, Orks would get larger and more aggressive and Tyranids and Necrons would become unique forces to fight with (and pretty opposite for each others).

How it seems to you? Any idea how to scale points for such alternatives? Or is there cave-eats I just don't notice?

Thank you very much from reading and potential aid.

With best wishes,
Telepfenion

[YorkNecromancer]

The helmet issue was originally an abstraction - by having a model without a helmet, it allows the player to quickly identify squad leaders. But here's the thing: if you like helmets/hate the idea of men without them, then have helmets on your guys, but leave the rest of us alone - this is your issue. Helmetless models aren't about realism, they're about characterful modelling opportunities and let's be fair - 40K has MUCH bigger issues with realism than the helmet thing. (Like cavalry. You've modified rules for cavalry without asking why they are being used at all; I've watched footage of the last cavalry charge that took place. It was in world war one, and those men rode bravely forwards... right until the artillery reduced them to nothing. Not even bodies were left. And swords - there is a reason no modern army sends its men into combat with swords as standard; they're functionally useless on the modern battlefield, because even a pistol gives you more reach. I could go on, but seriously, I can count the number of realistic things about the 40K universe on one hand, and I wouldn't even have to use all my fingers.)

If you really want to get into the helmet thing, in the 'Deathwatch' RPG, it actually matters: if you don't wear a helmet, you gain a bonus to your leadership (on account of how inspirationally brave you are), but don't have any armour on your head, which may well lead to your death. Of course, as a Space Marine, you already have a bulletproof skull (remember the bone-thickening implant all Astartes have) as well as a layer of subdermal kevlar in the form of the Black Carapace implant.

Lots of these rules just seem like they'd really slow play down - the double cover save thing would be a ****ing nightmare, just because it's another round of ****ing dice-rolling. Some of these are genuinely interesting (the endless swarms rule comes to mind), but so utterly counter to the way 40K is played, it basically turns the game into something that isn't 40K. There's also the fact that there are so many changes here, you've got no way to know how they will interact with each other. In your desire to create balance, all you may have done is create a different kind of broken.

Play some games with your friends, trialling one change at a time. Playtesting is a laborious, time-consuming process, hence why so many games are super-broken.

[Telepfenion]

Thank you for your read-through and reply.

Helmet issue wasn't model-bound, at least originally. It was indeed about literally not having helmets at all, instead just models lacking it for visual purposes. But agreed, making it YGWYS-issue was jerk move. Thank you pointing it out.

Cavalry issue. Hmm. I can agree you to certain point, cavalry charges are out of place; however cavalry itself is reasonable source of mobility. Although fan of rough riders, I haven't like their lances. I have always seen them more like dragoons - mounted infantry. Local fauna is usually most suitable for whatever terrain they live in while most land-bound vehicles would have trouble while off-road.

Also must thank you about pistol note. Back in 2nd edition, you were actually free to use pistols instead other close combat weapons, and have always wondered why that rule didn't press to newer editions. I would believe change would give certain support in gaming group.

Double cover? Hmm. Well, yes and no. Only one cover save is possible, but it is additional to armour save like No Pain is. So, in case model is allowed for both cover and + / ++ save, then there is additional benefit but otherwise it is old same. I don't see it would take any longer than it takes in WHFB and it rather fast even with modifiers once you use to it. Of course, cover could be transfered to Ballistic Skill penalties instead, which would result no additional rounds of rolling - assuming shooting wouldn't had "7+ to hit" as Fantasy does - but would require more math to be carried out.

I guess it is sort of matter of taste. You would have liked 2nd edition needle weapons, harlequin kisses and thunder hammers - all of them wounded automatically. But I can understand the easiness of D damage, only hitting requires is far simpler than three or five rounds of rolling.

Agreed. This needs lots of play-testing but then agian, not sure if solid enough even to be tested yet. Although I would like it to get tested as a whole, at least roughly whole, as certain elements tent to support each other. But... lets see what others have to say.

Thank you again for the reoly. It had few critical notes I would have missed otherwise.

With best wishes,
Telepfenion

[Da Gargoyle]

I rather think you bit off more than you could chew for this mate. You are mixing amendments to codex rules with the more general rules and it would appear you have tried it with armies you do not understand.

For example a witch blade and shining spear are two totally different weapons. I suspect you meant witch blade and singing spear. If you reduce their strengths to S x 3 you remove the capacity of the wielder to damage any vehicle because his maximum strength is 9. As far as multiple attacks are concerned with armourbane, all Eldar psykers that are not special characters like Eldrad, have a base attack of 1. Only Warlocks move in multiples, and so it is unlikely that psykers will generally take out a vehicle by themselves. Psykers being the only Eldar to carry witchblades or singing spears. Shining spears are jet bikers with souped up las lances.

The same for Orks. You don't get mobs of 30 on the battlefield because they are a nightmare to handle. With a 2" coherency they are a magnet for template and blast weapons, which also tend to be ranged weapons unless you talk flamers. If you want bigger mobs in transports then you can drop up to twenty in a battle wagon. The thing I miss is mobbing up. When a mob broke it could join another mob if that mob was within distance and level or behind it. Now that was a great rule.

With IG, sure your veterans can tool up with assault special weapons. But where in the fluff did it say they were rare? They are specialist weapons that every army has. And to balance it out each veteran squad is an independant unit, cost more than the normal guardsman and is still a fragile model in the over all scheme of things.

I think you should work on smaller chunks of the project and then, check it against the current rules, and play test for balance. For example your "Forward Push" rule already exists and has in all the editions since 3rd. It is called the Scout rule. If a unit has the Scout special rule, it deploys last, anywhere within a minimum of 12" of the enemy out of sight or 18" within sight and then can redeploy within 6" of its original deployment point without dangerous terrain test or difficult terrain tests and before the first turn starts.

What do you play. Given the way you want to seriously over power space marines, I suspect it is them. Bear this in mind. In a weekend tournament, I fielded a 750 point Eldar force against a DA Death Wing Coy, same points. The Death Wing had 12 Terminators 1 of which was the Warlord. & five marines. I had Wraithguard, Rangers, Guardians, Warlocks on Bikes, a Serpent and Spiritseer. The DA won a minor victory on secondary objectives. My Spiritseer realised he had missed opening time at the pub and ran of the board to get the drinks in. I was left with an imobilised Serpent and Guardian squad, He had half of one DA Termy squad and his Warlord, we both held an objective and both could still damage each other. That is balance and that is what you don't want to upset with house rules.

[Da Gargoyle]

By the way, Yorknecromancer, you were slightly off with the last recorded cavalry charge. At the start of WW II a myth sprang up about Polish Cavalry charging German Tanks. This was the result of German journalists getting to the battle late and winging it with the report.

What actually happened was the Poles found a German supply column and charged it in the flank. The column was caught unprepared and copped a hiding. However unit of panzers, those little mark IIs with the twin machine guns in the turret turned up and saved the day for the German column. The Poles, themselves caught in the flank withdrew, like any sane person, but some fought a rearguard to allow the rest to break off the action. When the journalists got there they saw the panzers and infantry mopping up and invented the story.

Cavalry can still be used if that is all you had. It was never meant for full frontal assaults on prepared defenders, just ask Lord Cardigan or Marshall Ney. But if a force is wavering or dis-organised, that is the time to hit them with cavalry. So I reckon any cavalry with mounts instead of vehicles, should be given the Outflank Rule, allowed to charge when it shows up and have the Furious Charge rule.

Telepfenion, Cavalry has penalties moving through dangerous ground because animals are unpredicatable. They can mis-step or trip. They can run into a tree if they get spooked and shy or bolt. And just because the animal can fit under a branch doesn't mean the rider will.

[Da Gargoyle]

Vis a vis the helmet thing. Just talk to any Ork and they'll tell you that trophy hunting is exactly what helmets were meant for.

[Telepfenion]

Vis a vis the helmet thing. Just talk to any Ork and they'll tell you that trophy hunting is exactly what helmets were meant for.

Hahahaha! Thanks, Of course I forgot ask orks about the helmets... Silly me.

Yep. YorkNecromance got that clear that I bite way too much at once. Bonus side, though, I got subject off my mind – it will be much easier to be objective about stuff than when my focus was locked on it.

And yes, some forces are rather unfamiliar for me but mixing shining and singing spears was pure mistake by naming. And although currently Warlocks are now a days split more effectively, Seer Council assaulting high AV vehicle like Land Raider will result lots of hits and each hit must be roll separately.

Hmm. Guess rolling technique could speed things up bit but in masse it would be still potentially seven rounds of rolling (three in case of AV 14).

Mobbing up.. Oh, that one! Mobs become rather... colourful in terms of gear but it indeed had certain orkish flavour in. I understand big mobs are targets for blasts, which surely makes sense. However, correct me if wrong but big mobs are orky, but people don't play big mobs because game mechanism favour smaller ones? So, why rewarding having big mobs is a bad thing?

Have to check rarity issue but most likely in 2nd edition material, most likely Gear book. After all, idea of rarity of those weapons is rather old concept. If it turns out to be incorrect, I have to kick myself to butt – been refused to use those with IG forces because rarity issues.

And yes, aware of Scout move is same as Forward Push; however, as far as I'm aware, no model can have access to move without being scout, which also includes outflanking and infiltration. Splitting rule gluster allows more precise handling of those.

Heh. Frankly, Space Marines is the only army I have refused to play. However, currently they present average line all the other is compared instead elite special force. With changes, they would become durable force that would be hard to ambush but point cost of marine would go up (rough estimated guess) +60-75%. It may seem a lot but about 70 points per one-wound model in infantry squad isn't nothing new in 40k... But you got quality with those points. Of course, 2nd edition was indeed worked out from totally different perspective then newer editions which mainstreamed lots of elements.

Your sample is good point, though. Have understood game works rather nicely in smaller battles where options are really limited, forcing to make choices that prevent packing up enough of everything to deal whatever comes across. Storywise loss of ten terminators is still huge blow for chapter – but at least against Eldar. Should they have suffer so heavy number of casaulties against cultists or mere imperial troops, it would have been twisting the blade.

Eldar would actually become really lethal against power armoured as bladestorm would negate biggest bonus price increase would grand for power armoured models. So... How many of those dead ten dead terminators were slain by that rule?

With best wishes,
Telepfenion

[Houghten]

Big mobz iz da only way ter play, unless yer Evil Sunz. Den yez can trim 'em down so's dey'll fit in da Battlewagon.

[Ducky]

Having looked at it briefly I do believe its a case of TLDR, whilst the GW rule book can be annoying the goal is to remain as close to the source rules as possible. With this in mind the changes you make to rend could be good is might just be a little superfluous unless there is a niche in mind.

On weapon skill I would propose a simpler system would be to treat it the same as Ballistic skill but for close combat attacks, this would make high WS units very powerful in combat.