The Land Speeder Missing Weapons Options

[ElectricPaladin]

I was flipping through my copy of Codex: Blood Angels and I saw something odd - the land speeder has two equipment options that are not present in the box. The rail-mounted gun can be a heavy bolter or a multi-melta (both in the box), but it can also be a heavy flamer (not in the box). The chin-mounted gun can be heavy flamer or an assault cannon (both in the box), but it can also be a multi-melta or a heavy bolter (not in the kit).

Now, the fact is that none of these weapons options are really all that attractive in a typical game... but I play a lot of variants, and I have to admit that some of the missing options would be neat. I mean, a land speeder with two heavy flamers in a Cities of Death environment? Screw your cover! Two multi-meltas in a game of Spearhead? Screw that tank in particular! Boom! :D

The conversions don't seem particularly hard to carry off - The body of a heavy flamer and a multi-melta are similar enough that I can just swap the barrels and have a pretty convincing heavy flamer for the rail and multi-melta for the nose, and I can more or less do the same thing to turn the nose-mounted assault cannon bit into a heavy bolter. Before I start sharpening my knife, though, I have a few questions...

1) Is this oddity present in the newer version of the kit?

2) Is this disparity still present in the newest Space Marine codex (since we already know that variant marines tend to follow the C:SM version)?

3) Is there anything else I should know before I start spending money on bits?

[Darren Richardson]

Ok C:SM says all Landspeeders are armed with A Heavy Bolter as standard.

They may trade in the Heavy Bolter for a Heavy Flamer or a Multi-Melta

And any Landspeeder make take one of the following options as well
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Flamer
Multi-melta
Typhoon Missile Launcher
Assault Cannon.

From Gamesworkshops Website

This box set contains one multi-part plastic Space Marine Land Speeder. This 60-piece kit allows you to assemble any of the three Land Speeder variants, including the Tornado and Typhoon pattern Land Speeders. This set contains all of the weapon options allowed by Codex: Space Marines including: an assault cannon, a heavy flamer, a Typhoon missile launcher, a multi-melta and a heavy bolter. Also included are Chapter symbols for the Blood Angels, the Dark Angels, the Ultramarines and the Space Wolves.

Hope this helps EP

Edit:

looking closely at the pictures though, I only see an underslung Assault Cannon on any of the models shown.

[Darren Richardson]

ah looking through an old 2004 catalogue I notice the older LS Typhoon kit had metal components for an underslung Assualt cannon AND Heavy Flamer, so I assume that the writers have allowed for older models to be usuable.

which makes a change :D

Edit:

Looking through the old 1991 catalogue, Landspeeders back then all came with Heavy Bolters & either a Multi-melta or a Plasma Gun!

[Darren Richardson]

looking through the 2002 SM Collectors Guide, the classic (2nd Ed) Landspeeder had a Top Mounted Heavy Flamer and came with an underslung Multi-Melta as standard.

[Wolfshade]

looking through the 2002 SM Collectors Guide, the classic (2nd Ed) Landspeeder had a Top Mounted Heavy Flamer and came with an underslung Multi-Melta as standard.

I don't know what you mean, mine has the top Heavy Flamer and the bottom multi-melta...
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b489/_wolfshade_/40k/IMAG0918_zpsjz4ygmqw.jpg

[Darren Richardson]

I don't know what you mean, mine has the top Heavy Flamer and the bottom multi-melta...
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b489/_wolfshade_/40k/IMAG0918_zpsjz4ygmqw.jpg

Wolfshade that's the 1st ed landspeeder, this is the 2nd Ed version

7609

Edit: Sorry don't know how to get the picture bigger.

[Wolfshade]

I know (all) :)

I was just showing that mine had the top mounted flamer ;)

[Darren Richardson]

I know (all) :)

I was just showing that mine had the top mounted flamer ;)

Dooh!

I feel for that one hook line and sinker Wolfy...

I forgot the older versions you could interchange them!

[Storm96]

The new C:SM has all the same weapon options as the one listed in C:BA. The current Space Marine Land Speeder kit comes with top mounted heavy bolter or multimelta and an underslung assault cannon or heavy flamer. And of course the typhoon launchers. There is no top mount heavy flamer nor underslung multimelta or heavy bolter included in the kit. Now I imagine conversions aren't too difficult but it would've been nice if all weapon options for all locations were present. I have many many land speeders and the ones not finished yet are the ones with dual weapons (dual hb, hf and mm). Ive just been too lazy to convert weapon positions.

[ElectricPaladin]

Honestly, the only conversions I'm likely to do are the upper flamer and the lower multi-melta. A dual flamer speeder for chasing light infantry out of cover and a dual melta for tank hunting are just too good to pass up. A dual heavy bolter speeder.... eh... why wouldn't I just want either an assault cannon for anti-infantry or a typhoon launcher for range?

[YorkNecromancer]

why wouldn't I just want either an assault cannon for anti-infantry or a typhoon launcher for range?

Because against anything except MEQS, three Land Speeders with dual heavy bolters is a far superior anti-infanty choice. Consider: 6 shots per turn with a 48" threat bubble (12" of movement + 36" for the bolter). You'll be wounding on between 2+ and 3+ with no saves apart from cover saves. In every respect, a dual Heavy Bolter is the superior of the Assault Cannon against non-MEQs. Yeah, against MEQ or TEQ, go with the Assault Cannon every time. But against light infantry, dual Heavy Bolter takes the win.

Now, there will still be people going 'Meh. There's plenty of anti-infantry that's more damaging'. To them, I say:

THAT'S WHY THESE ARE DEADLY. That attitude right there.

Because dual Heavy Bolter Land Speeders just scream 'Meh', everyone underestimates them, especially with all the other madness on the table. If you play your cards right, make a big show of how 'Oh, I know they're no good, I just play them because <insert lie here>', then while they're dealing with the THSS, suddenly they have 18 shots of death that utterly shred whatever light infantry the enemy are holding objectives with; remember, that 12" movement can get you around the back of cover much quicker than you think... especially if you 'made the mistake' of moving your Speeders out into the 'middle of nowhere' for a turn.

Not to mention: compare the points cost between Assault Cannon/Missiles vs Dual Heavy Bolter. Three dual HB LS's is the equal of a single Dreadnought with an Assault Cannon! That means if they die, who cares? They offer cheap and cheerful firepower, which is something often lacking in the SM army.

TL;DR: the dual Heavy Bolter Land Speeder is an underestimated death machine when taken in squadrons of three. Play them as cheap and disposable light infantry harrassers, and they'll easily win their points back. Use them for enfilade attacks; the enemy will never see it coming, because in this day and age, who uses Land Speeders with Heavy Bolters?

[ElectricPaladin]

Because against anything except MEQS, three Land Speeders with dual heavy bolters is a far superior anti-infanty choice. Consider: 6 shots per turn with a 48" threat bubble (12" of movement + 36" for the bolter). You'll be wounding on between 2+ and 3+ with no saves apart from cover saves. In every respect, a dual Heavy Bolter is the superior of the Assault Cannon against non-MEQs. Yeah, against MEQ or TEQ, go with the Assault Cannon every time. But against light infantry, dual Heavy Bolter takes the win.

Now, there will still be people going 'Meh. There's plenty of anti-infantry that's more damaging'. To them, I say:

THAT'S WHY THESE ARE DEADLY. That attitude right there.

Because dual Heavy Bolter Land Speeders just scream 'Meh', everyone underestimates them, especially with all the other madness on the table. If you play your cards right, make a big show of how 'Oh, I know they're no good, I just play them because <insert lie here>', then while they're dealing with the THSS, suddenly they have 18 shots of death that utterly shred whatever light infantry the enemy are holding objectives with; remember, that 12" movement can get you around the back of cover much quicker than you think... especially if you 'made the mistake' of moving your Speeders out into the 'middle of nowhere' for a turn.

Not to mention: compare the points cost between Assault Cannon/Missiles vs Dual Heavy Bolter. Three dual HB LS's is the equal of a single Dreadnought with an Assault Cannon! That means if they die, who cares? They offer cheap and cheerful firepower, which is something often lacking in the SM army.

TL;DR: the dual Heavy Bolter Land Speeder is an underestimated death machine when taken in squadrons of three. Play them as cheap and disposable light infantry harrassers, and they'll easily win their points back. Use them for enfilade attacks; the enemy will never see it coming, because in this day and age, who uses Land Speeders with Heavy Bolters?

Mental note - do the conversion so I can field my land speeders with dual heavy bolters. I stand corrected.

[Darren Richardson]

Mental note - do the conversion so I can field my land speeders with dual heavy bolters. I stand corrected.

Mental note to self: must buy some landspeeders for my Marine army now :)

[Blood Shadow]

I love taking 3 2xHB landspeeders not only are they often ignored until the first time they shoot but they also have a great record for me vs. Daemons, Nids.

It's a great way of piling high volume shots into your list, I also play IG and love the LR Punisher but its AP is - not AP4.

With BA you can have a Libby cast prescience on these things too 18 Str5 AP4 Twin linked kicks the *** off any Hurricane bolter.

The 2x Multi melta landspeeders for me are deepstriking kamikaze, taken in units of 2 normally for x4 MM is guaranteed to take something down, I often use locator beacons to make this as accurate as possible so 18" from your drop pod you can melta anything you like and much more point efficient than sternguard.

The MM guys will not be ignored however drop two MM in someones face and they will notice.

It's always been a preference for me to take MM landspeeders over attack bikes, they are way more mobile, can DS and can't be shot by poison, las guns etc. One turn using heavy weapons on the landspeeders is less shots for the stormraven to take, with the bonus of having opened our enemy's tin cans

[Da Gargoyle]

If I'm reading this right, the preference for the Dual HB is because you get a Hi Speed skimmer with 6 x S5 AP4 shots for 60 points. And apparently the nutters out there are ignoring them. Even in squadrons of 3? It's a relief they are not twin linked.

Not me, with 10 armour & 2HP, they are likely to be my first target for First Kill victory points. Either my Falcon, SL, SH and PL or a Serpent can pump out enough S6 or better shots to glance the whole squadron to death first turn. Unless they outflank of course. That is what I would think is the best use, they are not a target 1st turn, they turn up and blast away at the poor bloody infantry.

[ElectricPaladin]

...Unless they outflank of course...

Well, they can't outflank, but they can Deep Strike, and with the ability to move 6'' and still fire all weapons and 36'' of range, they can also come in from my table edge and probably still reach their target. So, reserving them is still a good option.

[Blood Shadow]

and with the ability to move 6'' and still fire all weapons and 36'' of range, they can also come in from my table edge and probably still reach their target. So, reserving them is still a good option.

Landspeeders are fast skimmers so they can move 12" and fire 2 weapons or arrive by DS and fire two at BS4.

I will never claim that this is a durable unit, but I normally roll with a Landraider or Storm Raven or IG Medusas....these guys can pop in and around, they're designed to be a nuisance....but lets not underestimate the jink save they get too!

Math hammer suggests you'd need 6 Str6 hits on average to down one Landspeeder so 18 Str6 hits to take out the squadron. And that's hits...not shots.

If one fast attack choice can draw that fire power it's done it's job. I'd really like to mess about with three squadrons of 3 Landspeeders supporting an Inquisitorial detachment in chimeras all with dual heavy bolters and heavy bolter servitors shooting out the hatch lol....

It's not the best weapon in 40k, not the most surviveable platforms either....but they can be very useful and are massively underrated

[Katharon]

Edit:

looking closely at the pictures though, I only see an underslung Assault Cannon on any of the models shown.

Because only a mentally damaged person would put a heavy flamer on something that fragile.

[Brakkart]

As an easy option for a dual heavy bolter option for my LS squadron I used the twin linked heavy bolter that comes on the Ravenwing accessories sprue that you can get from GW Mail Order. I have the co-pilot/gunner magnetised on all my speeders, and have one with this weapon and just use it as two seperate heavy bolters rather than a single twin linked one.

[Storm96]

Points as well. AC is 30, Typhoon is 25 while the HB is only 10. While I agree with you on the better weapons than the HB, there may just come a time when you're trying to squeeze points for something else and there it is. Most of mine are MM with either AC or Typhoons. Some are twin HF and Twin MM. I have 15 Land Speeders total in my Ravenwing company anyways, so I can spare the lone twin HB. Though after reading York's and Blood's remarks I think I might be magnetizing more.