My Little Thread of Noob Questions

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Hey guys, I'm going to have lots of noob questions come up as I continue to learn the game. So to all those of you with patience, I would appreciate your help :D

Here's how we'll kick things off:


In the SMs codex, I'm not clear what it costs for a pair of Lightning Claws. The entry says "Lightning Claw" (singular) 15 points. So does it cost 30 to have a pair of Lightning Claws? The rule for the entry states that "A model can replace his bolt pistol and/or Melee weapon with one of the following."

I'm wanting to put a Pair of Lightning Claws onto a Veteran. I'm assuming it's 30 points, but I can see how both interpretations of the rule could work.

Is it possible to have just one Lightning Claw?

Thanks!

[ElectricPaladin]

A lightning claw is a single weapon - it costs 30 to have two. It's possible to have just one claw, but like a power fist, you can't get an extra attack for having two melee weapons or a weapon + pistol because the claw is a Specialist Weapon. The benefit of having two is the bonus attack.

EDIT: Have you settled on a chapter yet, you feckless dilettante? :p

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Haha, yes, I'm going with Raven Guard. They have the total package for me: fluff, look, rules that add mobility.

So with the Specialist Weapon rule, wouldn't a model get an extra attack with a pair of Lightning Claws since both Claws have the Specialist Weapon rule? Shrike for instance, has a base Attack value of 3, so I assumed it would get bumped up to 4 with a pair of Lightning Claws.

[ElectricPaladin]

Haha, yes, I'm going with Raven Guard. They have the total package for me: fluff, look, rules that add mobility.

Awesome. If you want any advice on painting black, by all means ask for it. Black is a bear... almost as hard as white or yellow.


So with the Specialist Weapon rule, wouldn't a model get an extra attack with a pair of Lightning Claws since both Claws have the Specialist Weapon rule? Shrike for instance, has a base Attack value of 3, so I assumed it would get bumped up to 4 with a pair of Lightning Claws.

Yes.

It's best to think of it this way:

• Do you have a melee weapon? Splendid. You can use its stats in close combat.
• Do you also have a pistol or a second copy of the same melee weapon? Great! you get an extra attack in melee.
• Do you have a second melee weapon, but it's different than the first? Don't worry, you still get an extra attack, but you have to decide which melee weapon to swing with (you can't use both).
• Wait a second... is one of these weapons a Specialist Weapon? Uh oh... you don't get the bonus attack unless both of your melee weapons are Specialist Weapons.

[Nabterayl]

• Wait a second... is one of these weapons a Specialist Weapon? Uh oh... you don't get the bonus attack unless both of your melee weapons are Specialist Weapons.
EP's absolutely correct with everything he said. Let me add that if you're looking at this and saying, "Wait a minute ... does that I mean I could get the bonus attack even if I have two different Specialist Weapons?" the answer is yes. Two lightning claws gets you the bonus attack, but so does a lightning claw and a power fist (two lightning claws is, of course, cheaper).

Also, glad you were able to decide on a chapter!

[ElectricPaladin]

EP's absolutely correct with everything he said. Let me add that if you're looking at this and saying, "Wait a minute ... does that I mean I could get the bonus attack even if I have two different Specialist Weapons?" the answer is yes. Two lightning claws gets you the bonus attack, but so does a lightning claw and a power fist (two lightning claws is, of course, cheaper).

A second lightning claw is a good way to cheaply get a second powerfist attack... it also gives you the option to swing with either the powerfist or the lightning claw, which is a great tactical benefit.

[This Dave]

A second lightning claw is a good way to cheaply get a second powerfist attack... it also gives you the option to swing with either the powerfist or the lightning claw, which is a great tactical benefit.

Although it's an affront to the Omnissiah my Techmarines are now getting a single Lightning Claw now instead of the traditional Omnissian Axe. Since Servoarms have changed to a Specialist weapon and the LC is the same points cost I might as well to get an extra attack with it.

[Houghten]

Call me cynical, but I think it probably won't last past 6th.

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Okay, next noob question:

In the codex, what does "X" stand for in the entry for Sniper Rifle under the Strenght column? Trying to determine what Scouts can do. Never used them before and seems like they're extremely fluff appropriate for Raven Guard.

[Asuryan]

X means it has a special rule for that attribute. for snipers it means they wound any model with a toughness on a 4+, with other rules for the sniper rifle in your BRB.

[ElectricPaladin]

The full sniper rules are...
• Always wounds on 4+ regardless of the target's Toughness.
• Rends (AP 2) on a natural 6 to wound.
• Vs. vehicles, counts as Strength 3, but if you roll a 6 to penetrate, you get to roll an additional d3 (thus, if you get VERY lucky, a sniper rifle can pen up to AV 11 and glance up to AV 12).

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Next question:

A Land Speeder Storm can transport 5 models, but the codex entry doesn't make any mention of a pilot, nor can I find anything about that in the transport rules. If I have a unit of 5 Scouts take a LSS as a dedicated transport, and then they disembark after a turn or two, is the Speeder then stationary and unusable until a unit embarks again? Or is there a pilot that remains in the Speeder that can continue to move and fire the weapons?

[ElectricPaladin]

Next question:

A Land Speeder Storm can transport 5 models, but the codex entry doesn't make any mention of a pilot, nor can I find anything about that in the transport rules. If I have a unit of 5 Scouts take a LSS as a dedicated transport, and then they disembark after a turn or two, is the Speeder then stationary and unusable until a unit embarks again? Or is there a pilot that remains in the Speeder that can continue to move and fire the weapons?

Pilots don't count as people, though the storm's model makes that unclear.

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

So.....still not sure if the speeder can continue to move/shoot without an embarked unit.

[ElectricPaladin]

So.....still not sure if the speeder can continue to move/shoot without an embarked unit.

Sorry - I was posting from my phone and am very tired.

Yes, the vehicle can always do what it wants with or without a crew. The storm ambiguifies this because it's modeled to have five scouts in it, including the pilot and the gunner. However, even when the vehicle is empty, it can still move and shoot. Consider that, despite the eccentricities of land speeder storm model in particular, all vehicles have a driver and - if they have weaponry - either a gunner or a machine spirit or servitor slaved to the gun who fires the gun even when there are no passengers embarked on the vehicle.

[Dave Mcturk]

The full sniper rules are...
• Always wounds on 4+ regardless of the target's Toughness.
• Rends (AP 2) on a natural 6 to wound.
• Vs. vehicles, counts as Strength 3, but if you roll a 6 to penetrate, you get to roll an additional d3 (thus, if you get VERY lucky, a sniper rifle can pen up to AV 11 and glance up to AV 12).

for their points kroot snipers are the best in the game !

but still sniperz generally work like this ...

shoot 36" if anything happens to wander in range of your hiding place, hit and wound less than 33%, {most trained snipers would die laughing at that kill rate}... [never mind mostly trying to NOT shoot at something that close !]... and occasionally your gw equivalent of a heavy sniper round might get an AP2 on a rend ... ok most snipers could be really lucky and just throw handfuls of '6's to wound... but at a roughly 11% chance its not something to bet your wages on !

with up to 30 kroot pumping out shots your odds over the same priced squad of a handful of elite or veteran snipers from other armies is starting to show a favourable number...

[ElectricPaladin]

for their points kroot snipers are the best in the game !

Oh, man, don't I know it. I get some play out of my Astartes sniper scouts, but Kroot snipers kick everyone's butt, all the time. Try them in Cities of Death with the Master Snipers stratagem... freaking priceless.

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Thanks for the help guys, this is awesome.

Next question: the speed at which a LSS moves will affect how many weapons it can shoot, and how accurately it can shoot them. But does it affect the crew? For instance, if the speeder moves at cruising speed, can the all the crew still shoot at full ballistic skill? What about moving Flat Out? I understand that the Speeder itself would not then be able to shoot, but what about the crew?

[Nabterayl]

Thanks for the help guys, this is awesome.

Next question: the speed at which a LSS moves will affect how many weapons it can shoot, and how accurately it can shoot them. But does it affect the crew? For instance, if the speeder moves at cruising speed, can the all the crew still shoot at full ballistic skill? What about moving Flat Out? I understand that the Speeder itself would not then be able to shoot, but what about the crew?
The rules for passengers shooting are entirely separate from the rules for the vehicle itself shooting. They are buried on page 78:


Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at Combat Speed count as having moved that turn. Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can only fire Snap Shots that turn. They cannot fire if the vehicle moves Flat Out or uses smoke launchers that turn.

Note that this is independent of the vehicle's own speed rating. A Fast vehicle can shoot more accurately on the move than a regular vehicle, but the passengers don't get the benefit of whatever allows it to do that. Whether the vehicle is Heavy, normal, or Fast, the rule above applies to the passengers.

Note also that this means certain passenger weapons are not affected by moving at Combat Speed, and some are. Assault and rapid fire weapons don't care whether the model has moved, so the Combat Speed effect - passenger counts as having moved - doesn't affect them. They only really notice anything when you hit Cruising Speed, at which point they're reduced to firing Snap Shots by fiat. Heavy and ordnance weapons, on the other hand, will be reduced to Snap Shots if the transport moves at all.

This is just the most common application of a subtle difference between the effect of Combat Speed and Cruising Speed. If a transport has moved at Cruising Speed, its passengers can only fire Snap Shots, full stop. But if the transport has only moved at Combat speed, the effect is simply that the passengers count as having moved. Not only might this not affect their shooting (depending on the type of weapon they are firing), it can also be negated by certain special rules such as Slow and Purposeful or Relentless.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'd like to chime in here and say that while I love the land speeder storm conceptually, I hate hate hate the model. I can't stand the scouts. How does that even work? Do I have to magnetize all their butts so I can take them out of the model when the dudes hop out? Or just tolerate the fact that even though the crew disembarked they are clearly still there, where I have to look at them the whole game. And who's driving the damned thing when they get off? Who's aiming and firing the heavy bolter? WHY ARE THERE ONLY FIVE SCOUTS!?!?

ARRRGH!

Sorry. I feel better now that I've gotten that off my chest.

[Houghten]

I solved that problem by turning mine into a warbuggy. ^_^

[ElectricPaladin]

I solved that problem by turning mine into a warbuggy. ^_^

Yeah. I tried that. It was... ah... not my best conversion attempt.

Then I decided that I had enough power armor and traded my Exorcists away for some Lizardmen stuff. My Blood Angels can't take a storm, and honestly, I've always had more luck with static sniper scouts than bolter scouts or close combat command scouts, anyway...

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

New Question:

So does the Space Marines codex not include an entry for Autocannon?

[ElectricPaladin]

So does the Space Marines codex not include an entry for Autocannon?

I don't own the new Space Marine codex, but I can tell you the stats: 48'' 7/4 Heavy 2.

[Nabterayl]

Indeed it does not. As page 120 of the codex notes (first page of Armoury of the Space Marines), the profile for the autocannon is included in the main rulebook (specifically page 56). Its profile is as EP said.

[Calam]

I hope you don't mind if I ask a question here.
I've heard from a couple of different people I've played that they are able to assault a different unit then the one they shot at if, the unit that was shot at was completely destroyed by shooting. I don't believe this is correct as even in a disordered charge you have to assault the unit you shot at before you can assault a different unit. I couldn't find anything in the rulebook when I looked saying you can just assault a different unit.
I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I missed. Thanks.

[ElectricPaladin]

I hope you don't mind if I ask a question here.
I've heard from a couple of different people I've played that they are able to assault a different unit then the one they shot at if, the unit that was shot at was completely destroyed by shooting. I don't believe this is correct as even in a disordered charge you have to assault the unit you shot at before you can assault a different unit. I couldn't find anything in the rulebook when I looked saying you can just assault a different unit.
I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I missed. Thanks.

Nope. This is not something you can do. If you eliminate the unit you are shooting at, then you can't assault anyone.

[Dave Mcturk]

Nope. This is not something you can do. If you eliminate the unit you are shooting at, then you can't assault anyone.

as far as i can understand the RAW to get a disordered charge in, is to shoot at a unit behind the 'charge target' and then charge the unit in front, or to organise a charging unit such that its charge path 'passes' through an alternative enemy unit which can then be 'contacted' almost inadvertently ??? as EP says though it would seem by RAW if not RAI if you are 'too successful' when shooting then you probably cannot charge at all.

[ElectricPaladin]

as far as i can understand the RAW to get a disordered charge in, is to shoot at a unit behind the 'charge target' and then charge the unit in front, or to organise a charging unit such that its charge path 'passes' through an alternative enemy unit which can then be 'contacted' almost inadvertently ??? as EP says though it would seem by RAW if not RAI if you are 'too successful' when shooting then you probably cannot charge at all.

That's true, though why you'd want a disordered charge - if not to pull off a multi-charge - is beyond me. Disordered charges are basically bad.

And no, you can't charge the place where the unit was and hope to hit something else. If the unit is gone, you can't charge.

[Houghten]

Nope. This is not something you can do. If you eliminate the unit you are shooting at, then you can't assault anyone.

With one exception, as stated under "Transports and Assaults": if you shoot at a Transport unit and destroy it, you may charge the now-disembarked passengers.

[ElectricPaladin]

With one exception, as stated under "Transports and Assaults": if you shoot at a Transport unit and destroy it, you may charge the now-disembarked passengers.

Oh, they fixed that? Thank God! That really sucked.

[Houghten]

...they fixed that last edition. Were your opponents telling you otherwise all through 5th?

[ElectricPaladin]

...they fixed that last edition. Were your opponents telling you otherwise all through 5th?

… yes.

[NuclearSnowyOwl]

Hey guys, it's been a while but I've got another noob question:

I came across a discussion on bolter+chainsword about building a Command Squad where each model could wield both a flamer and a melta. It is being said that any model can exchange both bolter/bolt pistol and chainsword, each for a special weapon. However, in the entry for special weapons, it clearly says that an exchange can be made for ONE special weapon.

Apparently this has already been discussed at length online but I was wondering if someone could weigh in and help me understand what is correct here and why. Can each member of a Command Squad carry both a flamer and a melta?

If there is no limit to the number of exchanges that can be made, hell, couldn't I give one model a flamer, melta, and grav gun if I wanted?

[Charistoph]

Depends on the Command Squad.

Codex Marines and Blood Angels have their Special Weapon list which only allows one weapon or another to be replaced.

Dark Angels, though, don't have that. Their list isn't generic, but in their army list, and allows for chainsword and/or BP to be swapped for a Special Weapon.

[Da Gargoyle]

I just had a look at the Command Squad entry in the standard SM 'dex. It states;
- Any veteran may replace his chain sword and/or bolt pistol for a boltgun.
- Any veteran may take items from the Melee Weapons and/or Ranged Weapons lists.

Standard special weapons are not included in these lists, though you can upgrade a boltgun to a combi weapon from the ranged weapons list, which would give you one shot with either, a flamer, grav, melta or plasma gun. (Though I guess the plasma may allow 2 shots on the turn it is used). You couldn't upgrade to more than one combi weapon because you are only allowed one boltgun according to the entry.

I don't have any rules on the other chapters though so maybe the entries are different for them. I think, if it is a concern they can show you the entry that allows multiple Special Weapons on one model in a command squad. I've always found guys are happy to show you the rule supporting what they have. I am always ready to oblige, being Eldar I have quite the range of cute little tweaks on my weaponry.

I also think you end up with a lot of points invested in an already expensive unit and against a lot of your opponents you could lose the lot to concentrated heavy fire. So there is a tactical consideration there.

[Charistoph]

I just had a look at the Command Squad entry in the standard SM 'dex. It states;
- Any veteran may replace his chain sword and/or bolt pistol for a boltgun.
- Any veteran may take items from the Melee Weapons and/or Ranged Weapons lists.

And the FAQ (http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer-40k/7th-faq/Space_Marines_v1.1.pdf) states in the Errata:
"Command Squads, options
Add the following option to this list:
'Any Veteran may take items from the Special Weapons list.''

So, they can. Don't worry, it's easy to forget.



I also think you end up with a lot of points invested in an already expensive unit and against a lot of your opponents you could lose the lot to concentrated heavy fire. So there is a tactical consideration there.

A very valid point, especially for models that can't use both weapons at the same time.