Getting Pressure to Start Eldar Again

[will44]

Hello all

I'm a failed 40K player who quit the game and have been much happier for it.

However, I'm getting pressure from the 40K addicts in my gaming group to come back to the evil empire. I used to play eldar. If I start it up again, I'm thinking about a Yriel/Corsair themed army.

To continue with the full disclosure, I do not have the new codex, and I have never looked at my 6th edition rule book.

Now that we're all done with the disclosures, here's the list I'd like to try to build

HQ would be Yriel and a Farseer

Troops would be
Wave Serpent with 10 Dire Avengers or 10 Guardians
Wave Serpent with 10 Dire Avengers or 10 Guardians
Maybe 3 jetbikes

Fast Attack would be 2 squads of vypers (2 or 3 vypers in a squad)

Heavy would be 2 or 3 squads of war walkers with 3 walkers in a squad.

how much hurt am I in for with this list? Is it viable?

[Dave Mcturk]

if thats what youve got it will be fun, but WALKERS are so much better in the new codex ... BS4 ! ... built in power fields ! ... cheap weapons mounts .... battle focus ! ... on the other hand :rolleyes: ... poor old vipers remain the unloved red shirts of the eldar...
they even get taken down by ST5 ignores cover and they cant even buy the powerfields ! :eek:

if you want speed on the attack for 61 pts you get three GJB with a cannon that can '{sing} 'jump ... jump ... jump around'... whereas the vipers just get to 'hover' uselessly .... why they didnt give them the 'same' shoot - move option ... ?:confused:

i like my spiderz... but shining spears have got better {lower points cost} {bigger units} {decent xrch powers}
and the interweb likes hawkz ... though mine singularly fail to impress... {tbf 3 squads of 6 did chase three hammerheads clear across the table the other day... which was amusing but didnt alter the outcome of the game};)

imo if you put your seer on a bike with a spear and shard and stick 9/10 bikes with him it will give you a much better unit than any number of vipers... and they can still score every game

[will44]

if thats what youve got it will be fun, but WALKERS are so much better in the new codex ... BS4 ! ... built in power fields ! ... cheap weapons mounts .... battle focus ! ... on the other hand :rolleyes: ... poor old vipers remain the unloved red shirts of the eldar...
they even get taken down by ST5 ignores cover and they cant even buy the powerfields ! :eek:

if you want speed on the attack for 61 pts you get three GJB with a cannon that can '{sing} 'jump ... jump ... jump around'... whereas the vipers just get to 'hover' uselessly .... why they didnt give them the 'same' shoot - move option ... ?:confused:

i like my spiderz... but shining spears have got better {lower points cost} {bigger units} {decent xrch powers}
and the interweb likes hawkz ... though mine singularly fail to impress... {tbf 3 squads of 6 did chase three hammerheads clear across the table the other day... which was amusing but didnt alter the outcome of the game};)

imo if you put your seer on a bike with a spear and shard and stick 9/10 bikes with him it will give you a much better unit than any number of vipers... and they can still score every game

While I realize the farseer on a jetbike is powerful, it's never really been something I like to play. This is why I have issues with 40K. Despite the fact that there are a lot of options on most units, there's really only ever one effective way to play that unit, and if you don't like that play style, tough noogies.

[Lord Draekor]

If you are going to play in competitive tournament type environments and as per your last sentence you don't want to get locked in, then 40K will still have issues for you.

If you want to play with friends and field the units you like knowing how they need to be used on the table top; then Eldar this edition is one of the best if not the best codex to use. In other words if you don't want to use a Farseer on jetbike then don't. If you want to use Vipers go ahead and do so. Vipers are not optimal but they're not worthless if you like them and know how to use them. Myself, I like Swooping Hawks and I think I make them work pretty well. I like Hornets too. :cool:

You're only in harms way as much as you give LOS to your opponent.

Your list is viable. Is it "table the Taudar" viable? No but I am assuming you're not asking if it's a viable "top table precisely played winning list" which it is not. I hope that makes sense. I'm enjoying 6th edition after a long break of not enjoying some previous editions, btw. I'm focused differently now though playing scenarios and campaigns with friends instead of tournaments with effective or literal strangers like I did in the past.

[Tyrendian]

your list looks decent enough - except for Vypers, which are one of the worse FA choices imho... instead you might consider FW Hornets, which are very similar role-wise, only that they are just plain better at it (4xS8AP2 per model for not much more than a Vyper? yes please...), and at least I like their looks better too

[Lost Vyper]

Yep, Hornets or Warp Spiders for Fast Attack...and Walkers are darn good! If you want to be "that guy", you need only 5 x Dire Avengers to get the Wave Serpent :D. Bikes are awesome objective grabbers in the last turns, but tend to fail morale in the finishing line (at least in my fleet :mad: )...

[will44]

How many hornets do you need to be effective? Because at 60 american dollars a pop, they are pretty out of my price range...

and yeah, I've never been good with the bikes either. I may do a 3rd wave serpent with guardians or an aspect warrior squad.

[Popsical]

Honestly. Over the last 5 years i have repeatedly felt the "pressure" of my group to return to 40k/30k, because they pretty much wont play anything else.
Within 6 months of restarting and finishing each army which i have loved from a modelling and painting point of view, i have realised my mistake and bailed out again.
Its simply not the game for me. This doesnt mean it is a bad game by any means, but just doesnt sit right with me.
Think long and hard before restarting, it costs lots of money and time, be sure if that matters that it is the game for you.
Try using someone elses army or proxying the army you think you may like, then see if the cap fits.
Good luck.

[Lost Vyper]

I have three Hornets, but with the 6th edition, the seldom get play, with the Fast slot being SOOO occupied...BUT...i usually use all three in one slot, armed with Pulse Lasers and they tend to

a) Gather fire like nothing else :)
b) Destroy the unfortunate thing in their way

[will44]

I have three Hornets, but with the 6th edition, the seldom get play, with the Fast slot being SOOO occupied...BUT...i usually use all three in one slot, armed with Pulse Lasers and they tend to

a) Gather fire like nothing else :)
b) Destroy the unfortunate thing in their way

So what do you mean by gather fire? Can they take hits? i thought they were pretty fragile with only 2 hull points.

And what else fills your fast attack slots then, if I may ask?

[xsquidz]

So what do you mean by gather fire? Can they take hits? i thought they were pretty fragile with only 2 hull points.

And what else fills your fast attack slots then, if I may ask?

Warp spiders, swooping hawks, a flyer maybe.

[Lord Draekor]

I have 1-3 Hornets. Lately I've been fielding 2 and it's been working out well for me. I will field Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks in FA. I haven't tried out any fliers yet as I really like to have units that can score when I roll up the scoring FA mission. I can also swap in all Warp Spiders replacing the Swooping Hawks and Hornets if I want. That's usually 20-30 Warp Spiders but I don't spam like that very often and not against friends unless I tell them up front. I've been playing a long time so I have a large collection.

If I were starting out I'd go with:
5-10 Warp Spiders
6 Swooping Hawks - Hard to do when they come in a box of 5 but I got my 12 off of ebay.
%insert something else you really like here%

[Eldar_Atog]

Some people don't like vypers but I like having one or 2 in my army sometimes. If I am playing Mechdar, I prefer to take them over the walkers. They can fly with the serpents against my opponents flank and help tear it to shreds. While the serpents are alive, my opponent is throwing most of his shooting at them and not the vypers.

If I'm going with a more static list, then I take the walkers and wraithknight.

[Dave Mcturk]

"incy wincy spider climbs up the water spout..."

18 st 6 mono shots 3 st ap 1 mono shots.... move 6" ..... battle focus{fleet} up to 6"... shoot 12" ... optimum 9"...

then "jump jump jump around " up to 12 "

or if you really prefer them ... swooping hawks

and shining spears arent too shabby anymore... they actually have an ap 3 power weapon !

[Dave Mcturk]

Some people don't like vypers but I like having one or 2 in my army sometimes. If I am playing Mechdar, I prefer to take them over the walkers. They can fly with the serpents against my opponents flank and help tear it to shreds. While the serpents are alive, my opponent is throwing most of his shooting at them and not the vypers.


think most opponents go... ooh look open topped A10 2 hull point viper with max 5+ save ... mmmm yummy... three of them ... even tastier.... and walkers can carry two decent weapons and then battle focus oos... mmm {oh and they can outflank... and tie up weak infantry units... and go h/h v other A10 vehicles ...}

the only good thing about vipers is how pretty they look before they get smoked !

[Lost Vyper]

So what do you mean by gather fire? Can they take hits? i thought they were pretty fragile with only 2 hull points.

And what else fills your fast attack slots then, if I may ask?

They are AV11, so they can muster regular bolter fire nicely. And with "gather fire", i meant, that they present a clear threat to opponent, so they´ll have to deal with them fast --> other/scoring units can roam more freely...I use Spiders, Swooping Hawks and a Crimson Hunter sometimes, it depends, who i´m facing in our FLGC...Warp Spiders are the best bet, but Swooping Hawks drop EXACTLY where you want them --> Linebreaker for sure...tomorrow we´ll have a "Triple Threat Match", so my Dark Eldar/Eldar vs. Space Wolves vs. Blood Angels (and/or Grey Knights) and on that i chose Warp Spiders...

[Dave Mcturk]

have they upped hornets to bs 4 ?? or are they still bs 3 ??:cool:

[Lost Vyper]

Bs4

[will44]

They are AV11, so they can muster regular bolter fire nicely. And with "gather fire", i meant, that they present a clear threat to opponent, so they´ll have to deal with them fast --> other/scoring units can roam more freely...I use Spiders, Swooping Hawks and a Crimson Hunter sometimes, it depends, who i´m facing in our FLGC...Warp Spiders are the best bet, but Swooping Hawks drop EXACTLY where you want them --> Linebreaker for sure...tomorrow we´ll have a "Triple Threat Match", so my Dark Eldar/Eldar vs. Space Wolves vs. Blood Angels (and/or Grey Knights) and on that i chose Warp Spiders...

Okay, thanks for the heads up.

Sadly, I can't stand the look of the warp spiders, and they really don't fit the fluff of the army I'm looking to make. Another strike against GW for failing to make multiple units viable in a slot... God I hate this company!

[Lost Vyper]

If the people in your FLGC don´t use lot of fliers / AA, then two Crimson Hunters are nasty! I know, i got two of those too :). I´ve bought most of my stuff from eBay, just because you can get assembled and base coated/painted models with cheaper/same price than the box from GW...

[will44]

Recently got the new codex... kind of underwhelmed and a bit at a loss for the new rules. Not seeing much change except for the wave serpent shooting its holofield now. Clearly that's the way to go with this new codex.

So how many serpents do people take? Does anyone put anything other than guardians and dire avengers in their serpents?

And what are recommended build outs on dire avengers? Is the exarch worth it?

[Dave Mcturk]

min da to get the wavz at cheapest cost is useful to 'bulk' up army
but i prefer max da with exarcg with pw&ss... mainly for the 5+ iv save... stick a lord in there for fearless and some teeth and they can be a pretty good all round unit... dont underestimate bladestorm ... the lucky 6 gives ap2 and can fry anything up to T5 relatively easily...

im prefering spinners to serpents but most ppl seem to play a mix...

a basic storm guardian squad with two gunners and a spearlock is now a reasonably pointed anti-tank unit with some anti infantry threat.. and again they can have a wavz...

tbf our group has turned the wavz shield into a 'ONE USE ONLY' ability because it is a bit too good...

hawks drop on a sixpence as long as you have 6, spiderz are awesome with the new monofilament rules [why spinners are so good aswell], avengers are better, guardians are better, gjb are now much better in offence but can still be used to steal for 51 pts instead of 66 ... bargain, walkers are awesomely better... why other vehicles cant have power fields gawd only knows... ghost walk matrices can give eldar vehicles a real edge though why the cost more points than there tau =.... again gawd only knows...

prisms are better... they have three shot options and keep the 60" range... though why they cant have a 'shield' as well is another mystery, falcons suffer because everything else has got better in comparison, and again ... no shield... !

shining spears and scorpions can be useful and are marginally better... both have outflank and spears can get hit and run...

banshees and quins, well... if your not a purist they make excellent DE whyches, which for 10pts naked and 12pts with haywire grenades, [DE allies are great ... especially VOIDBOMBERS. ! ... they make eldar flyers look vaguely pathetic... ], otherwise your close assault girlies are staying in the army case...

at 1750+ you can run mechdar with 6 0r 7 serpents, 3 hs skimmers to taste and some fa slots,

guess my cheesiest 1850 orbat is actually DE with ELDAR allies

3 voidbombers for AT, 3 venoms with double cannon and born with double cannon for AI/AM, two mini whych squads on foot or with double cannon venom, {oh yes they really do look like quins dont they}, HQ to suit ... usually cheap as chips sucky... and battle brothers: 3 TLBL serpents, two min or max DA with autarch or lord or SS, one 6 man dragon unit, ONE SPINNER for rear area support... ST7/8 TORRENT, thank you ! and or ONE unit of SPIDERZ or Spears to give some reserve ooomph... lots of goodies...:D

[will44]

min da to get the wavz at cheapest cost is useful to 'bulk' up army
but i prefer max da with exarcg with pw&ss... mainly for the 5+ iv save... stick a lord in there for fearless and some teeth and they can be a pretty good all round unit... dont underestimate bladestorm ... the lucky 6 gives ap2 and can fry anything up to T5 relatively easily...

im prefering spinners to serpents but most ppl seem to play a mix...

a basic storm guardian squad with two gunners and a spearlock is now a reasonably pointed anti-tank unit with some anti infantry threat.. and again they can have a wavz...

tbf our group has turned the wavz shield into a 'ONE USE ONLY' ability because it is a bit too good...

hawks drop on a sixpence as long as you have 6, spiderz are awesome with the new monofilament rules [why spinners are so good aswell], avengers are better, guardians are better, gjb are now much better in offence but can still be used to steal for 51 pts instead of 66 ... bargain, walkers are awesomely better... why other vehicles cant have power fields gawd only knows... ghost walk matrices can give eldar vehicles a real edge though why the cost more points than there tau =.... again gawd only knows...

prisms are better... they have three shot options and keep the 60" range... though why they cant have a 'shield' as well is another mystery, falcons suffer because everything else has got better in comparison, and again ... no shield... !

shining spears and scorpions can be useful and are marginally better... both have outflank and spears can get hit and run...

banshees and quins, well... if your not a purist they make excellent DE whyches, which for 10pts naked and 12pts with haywire grenades, [DE allies are great ... especially VOIDBOMBERS. ! ... they make eldar flyers look vaguely pathetic... ], otherwise your close assault girlies are staying in the army case...

at 1750+ you can run mechdar with 6 0r 7 serpents, 3 hs skimmers to taste and some fa slots,

guess my cheesiest 1850 orbat is actually DE with ELDAR allies

3 voidbombers for AT, 3 venoms with double cannon and born with double cannon for AI/AM, two mini whych squads on foot or with double cannon venom, {oh yes they really do look like quins dont they}, HQ to suit ... usually cheap as chips sucky... and battle brothers: 3 TLBL serpents, two min or max DA with autarch or lord or SS, one 6 man dragon unit, ONE SPINNER for rear area support... ST7/8 TORRENT, thank you ! and or ONE unit of SPIDERZ or Spears to give some reserve ooomph... lots of goodies...:D

um... can anyone translate this to the English language used by 30 somethings?

[Dave Mcturk]

lol do you really need that longhand. ?

>>

"min da to get the wavz at cheapest cost is useful to 'bulk' up army
but i prefer max da with exarcg with pw&ss... mainly for the 5+ iv save... stick a lord in there for fearless and some teeth and they can be a pretty good all round unit... dont underestimate bladestorm ... the lucky 6 gives ap2 and can fry anything up to T5 relatively easily...

DA = Dire Avengers / WAVZ = Wave Serpents min = minimum, the lowest number of figures for a legal unit, Max = MAXIMUM ... normally the optimum maximised build for a particular unit. pw&ss = power weapon and shimmershield = the best loadout for dire avenger exarch. Bladestorm is a new codex ability that makes all shuriken weapon armour penetration 2 on a roll of 6 to wound. T = toughness

im prefering spinners to serpents but most ppl seem to play a mix...

Spinners = Night Spinner ... eldar barrage skimmer / serpent = Wave Serpent Transport Skimmer

a basic storm guardian squad with two gunners and a spearlock is now a reasonably pointed anti-tank unit with some anti infantry threat.. and again they can have a wavz...

a basic storm guardian squad is 10 or 11 guardians + a warlock / warlock + singing spear = spearlock. guardians may choose two 'gunners' ... i normally go for a cheap fusion 'gunner' Firedragons are 22pts ... a guardian fusion 'gunner' is only 19pts. again WAVZ = Wave Serpent Eldat Transport Skimmer

tbf our group has turned the wavz shield into a 'ONE USE ONLY' ability because it is a bit too good...

tbf = to be fair

hawks drop on a sixpence as long as you have 6, spiderz are awesome with the new monofilament rules [why spinners are so good aswell], avengers are better, guardians are better, gjb are now much better in offence but can still be used to steal for 51 pts instead of 66 ... bargain, walkers are awesomely better... why other vehicles cant have power fields gawd only knows... ghost walk matrices can give eldar vehicles a real edge though why the cost more points than there tau =.... again gawd only knows...

a sixpence is an old fashioned coin prevalent up to about 1972, when they were replaced by modern decimal coinage, it was about the size of a modern half pence piece {which arent used any more either} in other words ... "in a very small space" HAWKS = Swooping Hawks... an eldar Fast Attack {FA} choice that can in groups of six land from deep strike without scattering... SPIDZ/Spidrz = Warp Spiders ... an eldar fast attack choice that can deep strike {especially if playing short edge deployment or you get the Eldar Warlord Power that allows deep strike within 6" of warlord} or are just as good reserving from the board edge in other deployments. GJB are guardian jetbikes ... now mysteriously called 'WINDRIDERS', but in any case much better than their incarnation in the previous eldar codexes {codices} ?

prisms are better... they have three shot options and keep the 60" range... though why they cant have a 'shield' as well is another mystery, falcons suffer because everything else has got better in comparison, and again ... no shield... !

PRISMS/PRISMZ = Fire Prisms, an eldar heavy support choice that is less points than in the previous codex and has more flexibility as well. FALCONZ = Eldar Grav Tank called almost surprisingly 'a falcon' ... they used to be the best skimmer in the old codex although their transport capacity was still limited, they are now superseded by the much improved WAVZ...

shining spears and scorpions can be useful and are marginally better... both have outflank and spears can get hit and run...

think this one is self explanatory !

banshees and quins, well... if your not a purist they make excellent DE whyches, which for 10pts naked and 12pts with haywire grenades, [DE allies are great ... especially VOIDBOMBERS. ! ... they make eldar flyers look vaguely pathetic... ], otherwise your close assault girlies are staying in the army case...

banshees = HOWLING BANSHEES an eldar elite choice that before 6th edition and the new eldar codex used to be a solid choice... but with the nerf {nerf= inexplicable and generally worrisome change for the worse} to their power weapons are now about as much use as a sick headache.... QUINS = Harlequins ... again a heavily nerfed close combat unit that should be better but for 22pts + per figure is absolute rubbish in 6th, hence the recommendation to used both QUINS & BANSHEES to proxy {use a model to represent an alternative but normally similar model} as DE {dark eldar} wyches ... these troops can perform the close combat functions that Quins and banshees used to in 5th edition for three reasons : 1: they are cheap as chips {a food product made by slicing a potatoe into segments and coking it .. normally in deep fat} they cost 12pts WITH HAYWIRE GRENADES ... absolute bargain {bargain: when something can be obtained for a much lower price than an equivalent product sold at a much higher price} 2: they can come in units of 15 + characters on foot {sic} or 3: they can come in a unit of 5 to 10 with a choice of beatstick transport BEATSTICK: a large wooden club used to hit people and cause severe damage also slang for other things !

mech dar = Mechanised Eldar Force wholly or almost wholly carried in skimmers, perhaps with some attached 'windriders' {GJB}

at 1750+ you can run mechdar with 6 0r 7 serpents, 3 hs skimmers to taste and some fa slots,

guess my cheesiest 1850 orbat is actually DE with ELDAR allies



3 voidbombers for AT, 3 venoms with double cannon and born with double cannon for AI/AM, two mini whych squads on foot or with double cannon venom, {oh yes they really do look like quins dont they}, HQ to suit ... usually cheap as chips sucky... and battle brothers: 3 TLBL serpents, two min or max DA with autarch or lord or SS, one 6 man dragon unit, ONE SPINNER for rear area support... ST7/8 TORRENT, thank you ! and or ONE unit of SPIDERZ or Spears to give some reserve ooomph... lots of goodies...

Venom is a Dark Eldar {DE} transport choice that can mount TWO splinter cannons {double cannon} AI = anti infantry // AM = anti-monster {ie poison} HQ = headquarters unit , at least ONE per force organisation selection as per BRB {BRB = basic rule book ... the large one full of pretty pictures and pretending to give a coherent and fast play set of rules...
TLBL = twin linked bright lance ... imo {in my opinion} the best loadout for a WAVZ ... unless you know it is going to end up really tight with the enemy {tight = too close for comfort}... SS = abbreviation for Shining Spears ... LORD = any Pheonix Lord to your taste... dragon = firedragon = fragon= fusion gunner.


Hope that helps :cool:

[Demonus]

um... can anyone translate this to the English language used by 30 somethings?

LOL I spent 5 min trying to figure out what a "Min da" was. I thought he was an ork.

[Dave Mcturk]

sorry... too used to using abbreviations... :rolleyes:

[DarkLink]

Also, at the end of a sentence, you normally use a period/full stop, not an ellipsis. It makes it really frikin' annoying to read. Like the stereotypical teenage girl who types stuff like OMGFWTFBBYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! It's alright to use every once and a while, but there's a reason why longform writing uses periods and capitalization and paragraphs.

[Dave Mcturk]

really
tell it to the egyptians
but seriously
its just cultural
and punctuation was invented by 16th century academics
sorry to offend
though
mb

[DarkLink]

Just saying, if you post something and people who speak and read the same language as you ask for a translation, you could probably stand to put a little more effort in to being coherent.

[Da Gargoyle]

I know its an old thread but back to the point. D Mc is right, there is a lot of new stuff in the new codex that improves the Eldar offensive capacity. It took me a while to get over some of the other stuff, like introducing Eldar weapons that kill Eldar more than anyone else. Or bumping up the points cost on things to send them beyond the reach of the average 1500 point game. With holo fields and shield strike for serpents, using the shields defensively is a bit redundant. Especially as 3 glancing hits will wreck you anyway. Blade storm means I am finally considering DA for games. And having worked out the intricacies of Warlock powers I am more on board with them now. I think Falcons are being overlooked for other vehicles and they should not be. Again holo fields, a scatter laser & shuriken cannon presents a lot of fire power from S6 to 8 (Pulse laser) and AP 2 to 5, blade storm still applies to a cannon and laser lock is like twin linked. + 6 man transport, hellooooo! Scorpions. I have been trialing Vyper Serpent combo's, both threatening multiple target dilemma and holo goodness.

It is interesting to see how Banshee Masks are more useful than Mandi Blasters now, I mean what is S3 AP- going to do to anyone? Killing 5 points on your target's initiative however means every one, like storm guardians hit first. But Banshee Masks remain cheaper.

[Tyrendian]

I know its an old thread but back to the point. D Mc is right, there is a lot of new stuff in the new codex that improves the Eldar offensive capacity. It took me a while to get over some of the other stuff, like introducing Eldar weapons that kill Eldar more than anyone else. Or bumping up the points cost on things to send them beyond the reach of the average 1500 point game. With holo fields and shield strike for serpents, using the shields defensively is a bit redundant. Especially as 3 glancing hits will wreck you anyway. Blade storm means I am finally considering DA for games. And having worked out the intricacies of Warlock powers I am more on board with them now. I think Falcons are being overlooked for other vehicles and they should not be. Again holo fields, a scatter laser & shuriken cannon presents a lot of fire power from S6 to 8 (Pulse laser) and AP 2 to 5, blade storm still applies to a cannon and laser lock is like twin linked. + 6 man transport, hellooooo! Scorpions. I have been trialing Vyper Serpent combo's, both threatening multiple target dilemma and holo goodness.

It is interesting to see how Banshee Masks are more useful than Mandi Blasters now, I mean what is S3 AP- going to do to anyone? Killing 5 points on your target's initiative however means every one, like storm guardians hit first. But Banshee Masks remain cheaper.

amusingly, the new mandiblasters are mathematically better than the old ones against pretty much anything (bar the two or three models out there with T7 obviously)

[entendre_entendre]

I've had some use with Vypers and there are effectively 2 ways to run them: Cheap dakka and blinged out. Have at least 2 in a squadron.
No frills setup: x2 Shuriken Cannnons
Pimp my Jetbike: x2 Shuriken Cannons, Holofields, Ghostwalk Matrix

Usage: These are fast skirmishing units, do not put them in a position where they will take hits b/c they WILL die. You should have something scary on the board in order to draw fire off these guys, something like Wraith units, Serpents, etc. Note: anything that Ignores Cover (Tau things, Vector Strikes, flamers, etc.) will absolutely end Vypers, so ymmv depending on what your meta is (i.e. what your friends/common opponents play). As for targets, you have enough shots to threaten both hordes and MCs. You can even go light vehicle hunting with those S6 shots.

The simple setup is cheap S6 shots (6 each). Keep your distance, keep moving. Try to avoid being the obvious target.
The upgraded setup is played somewhat differently as it is made to hug cover. The Ghostwalk matrix makes you auto-pass any dangerous tests (MTC) and the Holofields gives you +1 cover save as long as you move. Throw these guys in a ruin, move 1" and enjoy 3+ cover saves all day. However, the upgraded unit cost 25pts more/model over the other option, so they get expensive much more quickly.

For comparison, the cheap squad of 3 Vypers is 180pts, but the pimped out ones are almost 250. Your call if they're worth the extra points.

Side note: IMO, if you're going to give Vypers anything but dual cannons, you're probably better off with a Hornet.

[Charon]

I think Falcons are being overlooked for other vehicles and they should not be. Again holo fields, a scatter laser & shuriken cannon presents a lot of fire power from S6 to 8 (Pulse laser) and AP 2 to 5, blade storm still applies to a cannon and laser lock is like twin linked. + 6 man transport, hellooooo! Scorpions. I have been trialing Vyper Serpent combo's, both threatening multiple target dilemma and holo goodness.

It is interesting to see how Banshee Masks are more useful than Mandi Blasters now, I mean what is S3 AP- going to do to anyone? Killing 5 points on your target's initiative however means every one, like storm guardians hit first. But Banshee Masks remain cheaper.

Falcons are overlooked cause Serpents do exactly the same (TL scattler laser makes serpent shield TL which comes with ignore cover and pinningat S7), are more durable, are in fact CHEAPER (pointwise), have a higher transport capacity and do no use a support slot.

Banshee masks are by no means more useful than mandi blasters. An ini10 autohit with S3 is not bad at all. Coupled with granades and their high initiative they wil strike first most of the time (and have the armor so survive, also they get bonus to cover). Banshee masks on the other hand make most enemys drop to ini1. Ok on paper but on the reality is that your targets are in cover most of the time so your ini also drops to 1 as you have no granades. All summed up scorpions are the better pick if you really want to go melee.

[Dave Mcturk]

busy 'experimenting' with the scorpions 'infiltrate in a serpent' malarky...

reckoning that 6 or 7 scorps with the clawarch is not quite resilient enough; so trying out '9's' this weekend...

but starting to think by dropping the 50 pts on the two clawarches and going to minimum squads of '5' i can go with THREE infiltrating serpents that can be a real threat; and the scorpz are just a nuisance. {i run TLBL serpents}

any feedback welcomed xx