Straight eldar list... Let me know what you think?

[Zigga]

Ok so I've been away from 40k since the onset of 5th edition and curious if this list I made is viable for tournaments... Her it goes.

Spirit seer, battle runes, shard of anaris

Fire dragons x 5 with exarch in wave serpent with tl BL, shuriken cannon holo fields/ spirit stones

Wraithguard x 5 wave serpent with tl ML holo fields/ spirit stones

Wraithblades x5 with axes/ shields with wave serpent with tl star cannon holo fields/ spirit stones

Guardian jet bikes x 5

Guardian defenders x10 with BL platform

Hemlock Wraith fighter

Warp spiders x 5 with exarch with power blades and tl death spinner

Fire prism x2 with holo fields and spirit stones

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

[Lost Vyper]

I don´t play tournaments, but i wouldn´t take that list in to a friendly game either :). So,...

- Get Crimson Hunter (if you want a flyer)
- Wave Serpents with Scatter Laser + Holo, no other upgrades
- Warp Spiders, if you want an Exarch, Fast Shot + Spinnernet rifle
- Fire Prisms just with Holo
- Just Wraithguard with D-scythes or without, if you are in CC, you are already dead

just my IMHO, how i would play with these models given...

[Dave Mcturk]

anecdotal i know, but the only wraith ive ever had survive a battle have either not got out of the ship until turn 5/6 or have been axeguard with a 4up iv and some save bonuses from psychic powers... a 3+ save doesnt keep them alive once they are on foot and with so much ST8 stuff out there these days their T value isnt much help either...

flamewraith are so much more useful if you have the points !:rolleyes:

[Lost Vyper]

Flamewraith are so much more useful if you have the points !

So true, tapped Mephiston in two games...

[-Tom-]

anecdotal i know, but the only wraith ive ever had survive a battle have either not got out of the ship until turn 5/6 or have been axeguard with a 4up iv and some save bonuses from psychic powers... a 3+ save doesnt keep them alive once they are on foot and with so much ST8 stuff out there these days their T value isnt much help either...

flamewraith are so much more useful if you have the points !:rolleyes:

The advantage of Wraithguard is for keeping a HQ choice alive with majority toughness. It's so easy to insta-kill Eldar, but if the Spiritseer is in with the Wraithguard then he's a lot more survivable than elsewhere. Of course, if your opponent decides that he's going to take them out and really puts an effort in to do so, then they'll die. But at the same time, he won't be shooting at other things.

As with everything else, it's 'horses for courses', and for a tournament you really need a good all round list. Although things will have particular strengths and weaknesses against certain things, you might be talking the case that 80% of the time they'll be awesome, 20% they'll suck. For example, wraith lords / knights. High toughness... they can be a real beast on the field... although if your opponent has poison weapons then their toughness doesn't really count for anything.


So, as general notes for Eldar forces that are good all round:

- War Walkers. They're really the only things with Skyfire (ignoring Dark Reaper Exarchs). Give them a scatter laser and a Missile Launcher and they should be able to be in a position to shoot and damage lots of different options, with being able to pump out plenty of shots, being able to take on armoured targets (with re-rolls to hit from the lasers, even if they didn't have the punch to get through the armour), and flyers too.

- Wave Serpents. They're just awesome. They can protect your squishy troop choices, and they pack a real punch. Twin linked scatter lasers = 4 re-rollable S6 shots, and gives a re-roll on all other shots fired as long as you hit with at least one. 3 x S6 on the sh. cannon (which you could snap fire if you move at combat speed... 3 shots and re-rolls on them thanks to the laser marker still gives a good chance of doing some extra damage), and D6 + 1 on the serpent shield. With the pure number of shots they can put out, they can take out horde units, heavily armoured elite units (because people are still going to rolls some 1s and 2s with that many saves to take), and also have a chance at taking down flyers or FMCs.

In a tournament the other day, my Eldar came in 3rd, and another Eldar army came in 2nd.

My list was: 3 x 5 man DA squads, in wave serpents, twin-scatters, Sh. cannon and holo-fields. 1 x 5 man wraithguard with spirit seer in with them as HQ choice, also in a wave serpent (same build), 1 x 5 man fire dragons (again, in wave serpent, same build), and 1 wraith knight just with the 2 heavy wraith cannons. No Exarchs, no other vehicle upgrades, no special war gear for the spirit seer. In the future, I might play around with points to consider taking a wraith lord instead of the knight to have more flexibility with weapons (heavy weapons, and also flamers for getting rid of pesky troops). I would consider putting the fire dragons in a fire prism, or also seeing what I'd need to change to get a unit of 3 war walkers in.

The list that came second was similar. 3 x 5 man DA squads in wave serpents, and also a wraith knight (I am unsure of upgrades etc in this list, but the weaponry on the serpents was the same as mine). It had war walkers in, with scatter lasers and missile launchers. It didn't have the wraith guard, but instead had a jetseer/jetarch.

[Dave Mcturk]

the newdar codex is great because there are so many viable {competitive} and fun {fluffy} builds...

the minimum DA/serpent build is certainly very effective but it can suffer to enemy lance spam [DE/other eldar] and it certainly suffers from lack of boots on the ground

our group mostly plays 'adepticon' style double scenarios ... so one game in three the mech dar are at a big disadvantage

my cheesy army is similar but i just put three night spinners in with the six serpents and be done with it !

[Da Gargoyle]

I posted a list recently for 750 tournament which included Wraithguard and a Serpent. The WG won me the first game because they were in the Serpent & I dropped them in front of a trio of crisis or battle suits (Can't say which) and cannoned them to death with insta kill. The serpent went totally bog standard, TL Shuriken Cannon and TL catapult on the chin. The shield shot and SC caused lots of grief. And, as if to prove the point, another Dar player dropped my Serpent with the Shield shot, basically glanced it to death with 6 S7 shots.

I don't know if Fragons are worth it these days, 22 points a model plus the additional on the load out for the Exarch doesn't leave much less than 5 Wraithguard. And the fry up quicker too.

I gotta remember Spirit Mark, missed an opportunity there with the Wraithguard in shooting at one point. I rolled 3 x 1 and could have re-rolled. I don't tend to use much in the elite because of points cost these days. If I did it would be Scorpions.

[Da Gargoyle]

Oh, by the way, someone gave me food for thought on Warlocks, it would seem that you can choose to roll for psychic powers for Warlocks before you roll for war lord traits because the rule book said both happen before deployment but does not specify which goes first. So all of my whinging about not being able to choose the Warlock from the counsel with the best power to support a guardian unit was stupid. You still can't guarantee you'll get what you want, but you have better odds choosing from the pool. It makes their cost a little more value for points understanding that little wrinkle

And puppet master is a cack. I got terminators to shoot at thier own army with their missile launchers. Love Telepathy

[Dave Mcturk]

i actually got hallucination off v a load of gaunts {30}.. rolled a 6 for result, 14 dead gaunts... very satisfying !:eek:

[Zigga]

So after reading everyone's advice and all I changed a few things in here...

Spirit Seer, with shard of anaris, runes of battle

Farseer with jetbike/ runes and other upgrades (don't remember off the top of my head)

Warlock council x3 bikes, with runes.

Firedragons with exarch (firepike, fast shot) in WS with TL EML and cannon holofields

Wraithguard x5 with dscythes in WS with TL starcannon holofields

bikes x3

bikes x3

bikes x3 1 with cannon

storm guardians in WS with TL BL holofields

Warp spiders x4 plus exarch with spinneret

crimson hunter exarch starcannons

fire prism with holofields

fire prism with holofields

may be over on points for now but I'm thinking more along these lines... reasons is, a bike lock for the 3 bike squads, help with the conceal/shroud and stuff, a survivable scoring unit that get gtfo when it needs to... seer on bike just gives extra buffs for other units as i see fit.. wraithguard for taking down MC and other big baddies with the D weapons and fire dragons for support killing weapons ie, tanks and other things that just need to die that can be hard to kill... the seer will most likely be with the wraithguard as it can survive longer with them plus do some buffs or use other powers as needed. The fire prisms are relatively cheap and can be very effective, plus having 2 of them can toss out 2 big templates for horde armies. The crimson hunter is for dealing with other flyers and maybe some pop shots on rear armor as I fly around. The warp spiders will be used to thin out squads and soften them up plus the vehicle killing capabilities are there against most transports and rear armor on most vehicles... and the storm guardians basically for an extra wave serpant, and another scoring unit for objective purposes if need be...

So there ya have it, let me know what you guys think of the changes, and thanks again for all the advice.

[Dave Mcturk]

as far as i understand it 'locks' are allocated to units before deployment... so you could always keep them as a separate anti tank unit if you liked... for 5pts makes sure you bang spears on them !

imo dont bother with cannon on small bike squads... three in a max unit can be useful... but the smaller units never get the shots off...

i know ppl rave about holofields but imo they are an expensive luxury below 1850pts games... just keep your tanks hull down and 'obscured' where possible and youve got the 4+ anyway... if you tend to play 'terrain light' games then they are probably worth it !

just last big spot... dragons work at 18-20" these days... skim 6", dismount 6"... bf 2-6" shoot 6-12"... pretty pointless putting the LONGEST range weapon on their tranny... sc can be useful or just keep the shurikan to save points ! and please ftlog... put 6 dragons in without the exarch... they look like a great idea but they all die... take the extra wound ! {i fought it for years ... yes please for the BS5 !...} but in 6th they get fried even easier than 5th without the 4+ cover save... i mean NO ONE is going to leave them around to pop another vehicle !]

the crimson hunter is a really expensive glass cannon... not sure what was going through gw sad little collective mind when they didnt give them access to power shields and or at least holofields ...[or wk even ARMOUR 11 !!!} i mean their tech is 38K years ahead of ours ! for less points and a bit of tweaking you can get a DE voidbomber .... awesome ! [min de is sucky @65 and mKabz @45... and they arent wholly useless... in reserve for backfield obj maintenance...]

good luck !

[Demonus]

Ive yet to ever do anything with a crimson hunter. Ive had one blown down by bolt guns....and usually its snap firing as even quad cannons 1 shot it. Mine is now a proxied Forge World flier. Even that still gets shot down but at least it has a far better jink save.

[Dave Mcturk]

on board artillery units can fire 48" to 72" without line of sight ... but a multi-million credit high tech fighter has to come down to NOE to shoot targets ?:eek:

of course if they were just 'off table' support units green wombles couldnt flog their extortionately priced models !

i am so tempted to pick up some 'cheap plastic' models for £3.00 each ... but currently just proxy eldar skimmers by sticking the appropriate weaponry on them and giving them a much higher flight stand when 'zooming'