2500pts Crimson Fists

[Bambi]

Been out of the game for some time having played orks and squats in the late 80's early 90's (showing my age). Started putting together a Crimson Fists army as i love the fluff, colour scheme etc. Play the occasional friendly game at 2500 or 3000 points. Looking to put together a list that fits with the fluff, has some variety, is fun to play with but won't see me swept off the table. Tend to play against orks, chaos space marines and tau. Anyway, here's the list:

HQ (580pts)
Pedro Kantor
5 x Honour Guard - 1x relic blade, 2x poweraxes, 2x powerswords, chapter banner & drop pod
Terminator Captain - Thunderhammer, shield eternal & auspex (with Honour Guard)

Elites (647pts)
8x Sternguard - Powerfist, heavy flamer & 3 combi-melta (in Stormraven)
8x Sternguard - Powerfist, heavy flamer, 3 combi-plasma & drop pod
Dreadnought - multimelta & heavy flamer (in Stormraven)

Troops (593pts)
10x Tactical Squad - Combi-melta, meltabombs, meltagun, multimelta & drop pod
10x Tactical Squad - meltabombs, plasmagun, plasma cannon
5x Scouts - 5x sniper rifles & camo cloaks
5x Scouts - 4x bolters, heavy bolter & landspeeder storm with heavy flamer

Fast Attack (195pts)
Stormtalon - skyhammer missiles
Landspeeder - multimelta & heavy flamer

Heavy Stupport (400pts)
10x Devastators - 2 lascannons & 2 heavy blotters
Stormraven - assault cannon & multimelta

Fortifications (85pts)
Ageis Defence Line - icarus lascannon

Total: 2500pts

The idea is that Kantor will man the icarus lascannon behind the aegis defence line with the plasma tactical squad and devastators which will be split into combat squads (lascannons in one, heavy blolters in the other). The sniper scouts will camp out in high ground if there is any. The second tactical squad in drop pod will come down first turn accompanied by either the plasma sternguard or honour guard/terminator captain depending on what's in front of me. The stormtalon will accompany the melta sternguard squad and dreadnought in the storm raven to wreak some havoc wherever needed. The scouts in the land speeder storm will either start on the table or be held in reserve for some last minute objective grabbing (hopefully). The land speeder can either support the scouts or go hunting on its own. Kantor and the company banner give me two pockets on the board with +1 attack that significantly boosts the assault capability of the sternguard and honour guard and even the standard marine.

Let me know what you think. Cheers

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

Overall, seems like a pretty well rounded list and for a friendly game has some really fun things in it. Some general things to maybe maximize it without min/maxing I guess I'd try are as follows:

The Sternguard squad in the Storm Raven... I take it they are going to assault out of it? (If so, you might wanna drop the heavy flamer since you can't fire it and assault) Also, I'm not too big on power fists on the Sternguard... they already cost so much, I feel the best way to maximize their use is the special ammo. Just my opinion. For the same points, you could probably fill the Storm Raven with some TH/SS Terminators. I think the Storm Raven should be used to deliver a nasty assault unit IMO. You could even put the Chapter Master in there with the Honor Guard, that could be nice in-place of adding Terminators.

Not quite sure about the Landspeeder in FA slot.. Maybe with typhoons? I haven't used them with your loadout before, perhaps you've found success? I think if you're going to run these, take a few armed with some str 8 shots.. that's always pretty effective for the points.

I think the devastator squad should match all one type of weapon, and not combat squad. I just find them more effective like that... plus, I think 4 lascannon tank hunter devs on a single target is much more effective than 2 and some heavy bolters with re-rolling some misses. I think it's better to try to "overkill" a target with the devs and guarantee it's death (which you'll do with tank hunter).

I like the lascannon on the defense line though in this list because it gives you some good AV12 anti-flier, and the Storm Talon with skyhammer missiles is great for all other fliers. The Storm Raven is great anti-flier as well (love that thing!)

As for the scouts, I usually run them one of these two ways (I've found it to be the most effective and points efficient load-outs): A) 5-man bolters (Imperial Fists chapter tactics) in a speeder B) close-combat in a speeder. The camo cloaks are nice when paired with some fortified terrain (TFC's Techmarine), but other than that, sniper rifles always seem to disappoint me. Also, I'm not a huge fan of special weapons on the scouts b/c their BS is just too low to rely on (it doesn't justify the points IMO).

Dreadnoughts just suffer in 6th ed. so if you're gonna take one on your Storm Raven, I'd take an Ironclad and sling him into close combat if you can. AV13 is hard to deal with for all those str 6/7 armies out there right now.

Lastly, drop pods... right now it's kinda tough to mix-in just a couple drop pods unless the rest of your army is meant to speed up the field. Just hanging a single squad or two out there could be risky. Personally, unless you can land 3+ on turn 1, I'd stick to the trusty ol' Rhino. However, if you are gonna drop anything turn 1, drop a full loaded Sternguard squad or two and focus on the nastiest threat or MC you can. I like to run 10 man, 5 with combi-plas when doing this. Not only does it give you some ablative wounds for interceptor, but with the 10 plas shots and 10 poison rounds, you should be able to kill a MC. Expect to then promptly lose them haha.

Let me know if you try any of these things and how it goes! Always happy to see someone in Pedro's corner!

[Bambi]

Thanks for this. I've been mulling this list over for some time now including some of the things you have suggested. Whilst it's moving away from the purely Crimson Fists theme I've been toying with the idea of running an allied iron hands detachment. This will give the army some variety, give me another modelling challenge and also allow me to make the most of their chapter tactics to improve some of the options in my original list (some of which I already have the models for but have yet to paint - always my slowest job what with kids/work etc).

Crimson Fists

HQ (515pts)
Pedro Kantor
5x Honour Guard - 1x relic blade, 2x poweraxes, 2x powerswords, chapter banner & drop pod
Librarian - Level 2 psyker (boimancy and/or telepathy), terminator armour & storm shield (with Honour Guard)

Elites (478pts)
6x Sternguard - 4 combi-meltas & drop pod
8x Sternguard - Powerfist, 2x heavy flamer & 3x comb-plasma (in Stormraven)

Troops (275pts)
10x Tactical Squad - meltabombs, plasmagun, plasma cannon
5x Scouts - bolters & landspeeder storm with heavy flamer

Heavy Stupport (392pts)
10x Devastators - 4x lascannons
Stormraven - lascannon & multimelta

Fortifications (50pts)
Ageis Defence Line

Iron Hands Allies

HQ (90pts)
Master of the Forge (with tactical squad in Stormraven)

Elites (110pts)
Dreadnought - multimelta & heavy flamer (in Stormraven)

Troops (235pts)
10x Tactical Squad - meltabombs, meltagun, multimelta (in Stormraven)
5x Scouts - 5x sniper rifles & camo cloaks

Fast Attack (125pts)
Stormtalon - skyhammer missiles

Heavy Stupport (200pts)
Stormraven - assault cannon & heavy bolter

Total: 2498pts

As far as the Crimson Fists go - I have reduced the size of the melta sternguard squad which will now be used purely as a drop pod tank busting gambit on turn one. The honour guard will still be deployed in a drop pod but are now accompanied by a librarian to hopefully boost their combat effectiveness or otherwise dump on any would be attackers. The deployment of the honour guard is now more flexible, they can drop where they like to react to threats (hopefully when needed). I recognise the inherent danger of using drop pods but having used owned several rhinos in a dark angels army sold off some time ago I fancy a change and have embraced their frailties. I have swapped out the heavy bolters in the devastator squad for lascannnons as you suggested and dropped the heavy bolter in the scout squad.

For the Iron Hands - I have gone for a cheap and cheerful master of the forge who will accompany a tactical squad in a second stormraven (hell why not). The dreadnought will now benefit from the iron hands machine empathy chapter tactic as will the stormtalon which has been switched over. Finally the sniper scouts which I have a soft spot for and rarely let me down now get a 6+ feel no pain on top of the boosts to their cover save resulting from the camo cloaks and the master of the forges bolster defences.

Finally, as far as I'm aware despite their name heavy flamers are in fact assault weapons and can therefore fire before assaulting. I stand corrected if I'm wrong. Anyway, any comments welcome on this revised list. Cheers.

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

I'm starting to like this list a lot more :D I think that the Master of the Forge in the Storm Raven that seems geared out as anti-infantry is going to frustrate the hell out of your opponent haha (basically unkillable with the repair rolls and IWND... very nice). I'd use that flier to harass a major infantry squad blob and even add on some hurricane bolters to it to further it's task. You can then focus the rest of your army on those tough vehicle or MC threats - I like where this is going.

I'm still not sold on regular Dreadnoughts, I prefer an Ironclad. Honestly, for the points you're spending on him, I'd drop him for more troops (I think you're a bit light for this point level anyway). OR, getting kinda crazy now... but Ally in Inquisition and take Coteaz for 100 points and put him with your devastators behind the Aegis! That would be awesome.

If you are still going to drop pod the Honor Guard, and put Pedro with the Tac squad in the Storm Raven, maybe change the combi-plasma to combi-melta so you can assault that same turn? I think that would be more effective (if that is the plan, anyway). Also, I wonder if Pedro's +1 Attack stacks with the banner on the Honor Guard... I'd have to look that one up...

I like the evolution of the list so far, keep going :D It's looking more fun and efficient!

[Bambi]

Thanks again, yeah I'm a lot happier with this list. I might consider dropping the dreadnought for another 5 man scout squad in a land speeder storm. With two of these on the board hopefully at least one of them will survive long enough to make a difference with proper placement (maybe starting in reserve to protect them for longer in objective based games).

I like the idea of an inquisitor (or two) and possibly Coteaz. I have been waiting for the codex to come out in hard copy (may be waiting some time) so don't know the points costs/options etc but have heard enough to be interested. What benefits would Coteaz bring to the party. An inquisitor/Coteaz could replace the librarian.

Whilst Kantor is great but I have found that he is not the best front line commander and is better used securing the backfield. His +1 attack bubble does not stack with the company banner could be enough to make people think twice before 20 space marines behind an aegis defence line or at least make them more capable in assault. The company banner with the honour guard can be dropped where they are needed, the banner and librarians powers (depending on what you get of course) providing a helpful boost to other friendly units.

I suppose if I did take Coteaz as my warlord behind the defence line I could put Kantor in the stormraven with the sternguard. Marines with 3 attacks base (4 on the charge) are nothing to sniff at particularly when they can fire two heavy flamers on the way into assault.

If I have any points left over after swapping out the dreadnought and possibly the librarian I would certainly consider getting hurricane bolsters on the anti-infantry stormraven.

[xTHExCLINCHERx]

Yeah, honestly the things Coteaz gets you are the ability to take Divination (prescience and possibly self-buffing powers or perfect timing on devs, etc.), he's pretty good in close combat, if you really want he unlocks his henchmen as cheap scoring units, he gives you a bubble that helps from being deepstriked on, he helps for seizing and being seized on... the list goes on; he's just amazing. He is just 100 points and really helps out an army like yours.

If you make him your warlord, I'm not sure if Pedro can still unlock the Sternguard as scoring (does he? or does he have to be your warlord?) If so, yeah, put Pedro with the Sternguard, that sounds pretty awesome (that's a lot of power fist attacks on the charge haha between him and the sergeant, isn't that like 9 or 10?!)

Let me know how it goes if you test it out!

[Bambi]

Good question. Just checked his special rules and if Kantor is selected as your warlord sternguard are still counted as scoring but you do not benefit from preferred enemy orks or the +1 attack bonus so probably not an option.

It would be 9 power fist attacks on the charge (5 at WS6) which is not to be sniffed at provided you are not going to get killed first.

[Katharon]

Also, just a general rule of thumb to follow: never put flamers on land speeders. Just don't. They're fragile little things and they should never be getting that close to something unless you really, really (have no other choice) must do so.