Starting Eldar, Will my clown dreams be killed?

[knighter]

Hey guys!

So i recently picked up warhammer (3 months ago) and have gotten very into it with a group of rugby buddies, we just played our 50th game of warhammer today (I dominated with my IG army woot woot)

However I am being offered a very large eldar army for cheap, $1350.00 worth of models for $210.00 and am just wondering what are peoples thoughts on harlequins?

To me this is a big driver to me doing an eldar army, they have a super cool fluff behind them and I really like the idea of them for close combat, what are people's thoughts on them? Unfortunatly they are an elite so I wouldn't run a ton of them but ya just curious on everyone's 2 cents :D

Thanks ~

[eldargal]

harlequins. such fragile. very expensive. so killy, wow

Harlequins are difficult. They are very expensive, very fragile and while they pack a punch they can be hard to use. They need a Shadowseer to have a chance at avoiding combat and the fact Veil of Shadows requires a psychic test sucks. But they do pack a punch and they are beautiful models so worth getting especially at that price.

[DarkLink]

Yeah... apparently Phil Kelly still plays 3rd edition exclusively.

[knighter]

Okay but they arn't like useless right? That's good to know that they serve a purpose, and to be honest I love the whole weak model but packs a punch thing, i love glass cannon models (Or character roles in games ^_^)

Thanks

Open to more comments on them though!

[Lost Vyper]

With that price, i would "buy that for a dollar" (Robocop), so BUY THEM! You can get awesome allies for your IG, if you want to make your opponent cry even more :)

[eldargal]

They aren't useless no, they just require rather more finesse than Eldar normally require (which is still a lot) and they have the same problem all Eldar CC units have at the moment in that they don't have a particularly good delivery system while being relatively fragile. Harlequins get around it a bit by having Veil of Wossname so they don't absolutely NEED a transport they can't assault out of to survive and they have their 5++ which helps a bit against Overwatch but still can be tough to use them. they usually do well if you get them into combat though.

[Mr Mystery]

For me, Harlequins demonstrate the extremes of the Eldar army.

Hit like an absolute tonne of bricks, and are arguably as effective against a horde of cheap troops as they are against your enemy's most elite unit.

But......they are horribly fragile. Either careless use or a duff batch of dice rolls, and they'll be dee ee dee, dead.

[isotope99]

If they keep getting killed, try pairing them up with Karandras for infiltrate, stealth, extra punch and potential 2+ wound tanking. Not tres fluffy (could be a good Great Harlequin conversion opportunity) but fragile eldar combat troops need the help.

[Tyrendian]

also, while verging on cheese - couldn't you just use Dark Eldar allies and run a squad of their better Harlequins (or, to be precise, better Shadowseer...)?

[Anggul]

They don't even hit very hard, and they're just going to be shot to death with ease before they get there. If you want close combat, Striking Scorpions are your guys. It's a shame because I love Harlequins, they're easily one of my most favourite things in all of 40k, but they're just so bad in-game. For some reason GW have decided put their hands over their ears and pretend their rules don't need fixing and are still just as good as back in 4th edition... oh except they now have to cast Veil of Tears. Apparently they needed nerfing.

Just house-rule them or something, they're dire and don't reflect the feared and deadly power of the Harlequins at all. They drop like flies and don't hit that hard.

[Tyrendian]

They don't even hit very hard, and they're just going to be shot to death with ease before they get there. If you want close combat, Striking Scorpions are your guys. It's a shame because I love Harlequins, they're easily one of my most favourite things in all of 40k, but they're just so bad in-game. For some reason GW have decided put their hands over their ears and pretend their rules don't need fixing and are still just as good as back in 4th edition... oh except they now have to cast Veil of Tears. Apparently they needed nerfing.

Just house-rule them or something, they're dire and don't reflect the feared and deadly power of the Harlequins at all. They drop like flies and don't hit that hard.

well in 5th they made for quite the Death Star with the right tools... like guaranteed Fortune for a re-rollable 2+ (usually) cover save with the old Veil of Tears...

[Dave Mcturk]

with the newdar dex absolutely slamming down a wasted chance to FAQ quins from both eldar armies... they are absolutely useless in 6th against any competent opponent, ... however ...

they make great 'DE' whyches... same appearance, similar weapons, and can come in units of 15 for the same points cost as 10 quins... they can have an assault vehicle... and in combat they get a 4+ save ... and YES... even better ... if you are feeling fluffy you can field SIX units... they can all have haywire grenades so absolutely massacre vehicles {unlike quins with two very expensive Fusion Pistols}

hexys get the cheapest phantasm grenades in the dex and can have a venom blade or agoniser...

and DE have poison ! 15 pistol shots might get lucky and even take down a NID monster or Riptide !



just watch out for those pesky TAU with their 'hit anything and KILL IT... Arm 4 / T3 hunter seeker missiles'


the poster above quotes the main problem... they are 22pts + and no better than other troops that do the 'same job'... IF GW had given them a 2+ IV v shooting and 4+ IV in combat - {from shadowseer} ... they might be worth the points

[DarkLink]

Hit like an absolute tonne of bricks,

They used to. Standards have been raised, though. Being able to beat a tac squad in combat does not qualify a unit for 'hitting like a ton of bricks'. They are one of many assault units that simply haven't kept up with the times.

[Anggul]

They used to. Standards have been raised, though. Being able to beat a tac squad in combat does not qualify a unit for 'hitting like a ton of bricks'. They are one of many assault units that simply haven't kept up with the times.

Yeah, they only hit hard when Rending was to hit rather than to wound.

[DarkLink]

Plus, even rending in general is not that impressive anymore. Most "good" assault units have a fudge-ton of attacks, hit on 3's with some form of reroll, wound on 2's, have high ap inherently so you don't need to worry about rolling 6's, and so on. Harlequins are just plain outclassed.

[Anggul]

Used to be you would get 2 Rends for every 3 charging Harlequins, which was decent even before you factored in the many armour saves forced by the many other non-Rending S4 hits. They were a bit mad though. They would just sweep between units, doing too much damage at high initiative for the enemy to do any damage back to them and couldn't be shot.

They would need a real overhaul to make them work with the many rules changes that have taken place since 4th edition. The Rending nerf, removal of sweeping into combat and Overwatch being the main things. A better invulnerable save would be a good start. They're meant to be exceedingly difficult to hit, and only have 5++. A Wych has 4++ in combat, so a Harlequin should have at least that, and some kind of improvement for moving before being shot because holo-suits.

[DarkLink]

GW just hasn't done a good job of balancing fragile, elite assault units for a long time now.

[Archon Charybdis]

I was meaning to comment on this after work, but it seems like Anggul and DarkLink have already covered everything I was going to say. The Harlequin rules are 7 years and two editions out of date. They used to be amazing but the game has shifted so much around them they're only mediocre anymore.

[knighter]

Thanks so much everyone for your input! Can always rely on this community for tips! All in all, are they still atleast somewhat usable? Like atleast in a semi-competitive state? Me and a group of buddies (10 of us, all been playing only 3-4 months but all EXTREMELY strategic people) could I still run them? I mean worst come to worst its only a dead 100 points or so I guess

[lattd]

They are still very useful. If people ignore them they can melt tanks and put up a good fight in combat if people are shooting at them, veil gives them a bit of cover and it means your opponent is not shooting at something more fragile.

[Dave Mcturk]

i used to use them as a nuisance unit with the shrieker cannon, but now that almost everything in the tau army can outshhot them and ignore cover its not a viable option...:(

[dude163]

I used harlies to great effect vs necrons recently, one even blew up a monolith with his/her fusion pistol , then survived the explosion with their 5++

as stated the delivery method is lacking, BUT the trick is to use something else more threatening as bait close by, I used a wraithlord. That took all the heat and the klowns were able to get in close , kill a monolith and the next turn 12 warriors. there is something intoxicating about 40 attacks with rending that I like

[Dave Mcturk]

now if they could get in a venom ? :cool:

[Pssyche]

now if they could get in a venom ? :cool:

In the Corsair Army List in Imperial Armour 11: The Doom of Mymeara they can.

The Venom was originally a Harlequin Vehicle. It first appeared as a kitbash in The Citadel Journal.

[deinol]

They used to. Standards have been raised, though. Being able to beat a tac squad in combat does not qualify a unit for 'hitting like a ton of bricks'. They are one of many assault units that simply haven't kept up with the times.

I've had my harlequins destroy a squad of close combat terminators before the termies got to strike back. Of course, I was lucky enough that my opponent popped out of his land raider to maul my jet bikes, which wiped the bikes out but put them in place to be charged by the harlies.

Meanwhile my Avatar ran over and wailing doomed the land raider.

But yes, getting the harlequins into position takes a bit of work. I usually do it by having too many things coming at the enemy for them to take them all out. Striking Scorpions, Warp Spiders, Harlequins, which do you kill, and which are left alive to kill you?

[Finnegan]

Actually, with inv save, equipped with kisses and two fusion pistols for softening targets, they're pretty good at taking out MC like Carnifex or even Trygon, Dreadknight or Riptide (especially with Doom).

[Dave Mcturk]

oh look quins on foot, i will just wander up to 12/14" and let them second charge me ?

give them a 4+ invulnerable and they might be ok. for their points they really need a 3+ invulnerable!

or let them back on the bikes ?

[DarkLink]

I've had my harlequins destroy a squad of close combat terminators before the termies got to strike back. Of course, I was lucky enough that my opponent popped out of his land raider to maul my jet bikes, which wiped the bikes out but put them in place to be charged by the harlies.

Terminators themselves aren't very good, either. Too much stuff kills them before they hit.