Imperial Knights

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm going to guess that the Knights of the Imperium is a softback Heraldry book, and the more expensive Companion Guide is just Codex: Knights and the Heraldry book combined in a hardback case.

That's an interesting possibility... I'd probably get the combo-book, honestly.

[White Tiger88]

Don't forget the Knights of Chaos Data slate they will release after most likely.....

[Mike Lawler]

Don't forget the Knights of Chaos Data slate they will release after most likely.....

And Da-Knights of Waaagh and Gue'Vesa'Knight and Hive Fleet Armored Behemoth, and SpiritKnight and Dark SpiritKnight

[daboarder]

question, where did that listing for the codex originally come form?

I ask because there is an inconsistency in the pricing.

The regular version of the codex is listed at 41 US$, which is less than the normal price of 49 US$ for a codex.

However the limited version is 115 US$, which is more than the normal 90 US$ for limited editions.

Very odd inconsistency.

[miteyheroes]

If the Codex is quite thin, and the limited edition includes something else, it might make sense?

[MajorWesJanson]

question, where did that listing for the codex originally come form?

I ask because there is an inconsistency in the pricing.

The regular version of the codex is listed at 41 US$, which is less than the normal price of 49 US$ for a codex.

However the limited version is 115 US$, which is more than the normal 90 US$ for limited editions.

Very odd inconsistency.

Stronghold Assault is $33, so a $41 price point would suggest that it is a tad longer Probably in the 64-72 page range. And the Collectors edition could include the Heraldry stuff like the Companion, making it a bit longer and hardback.

[Lord-Boofhead]

via a Reader here on Faeit 212
Here's a reply I got from GW Customer Service regarding the key question, can Chaos ally with Knights?

Customer Service are just other Redshirts. They know as much as we do. You may as well ask a sock puppet.

[Horncastle]

GW March 1 Releases

7531

I got the new White Dwarf yesterday (I love my FLGS) Knights of the Imperium is a novella. The companion guide is extended fluff and heraldry, etc.

[ElectricPaladin]

I got the new White Dwarf yesterday (I love my FLGS) Knights of the Imperium is a novella. The companion guide is extended fluff and heraldry, etc.

Still awesome.

[Dietofliquor]

Well, here you ladies go! New codex inbound.

75507550

[ElectricPaladin]

Check out the front page. Forgeworld options? Looks like I'll be magnetizing both arms, after all...

[Dietofliquor]

It didn't mention anything about new weapon options for the kit. But if we all know forgeworld, when a new kit comes out, they have to play with it somehow. I'm sure we can expect something in the months to come.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

pure guesswork, but i'm imagining the rules-side will have the "named" knights as the equivilent of characters, and the different houses ect as perhaps having rules (mechanicus allied ones, imperial allied ones ect). I suppose this is the closest we've had to a "new faction" in the game in a long time - so I am quite excited even if it is not one id play myself.

[Mr Mystery]

Check out the front page. Forgeworld options? Looks like I'll be magnetizing both arms, after all...

No Sir, I think that's the Melta weapon off of the Errant.

[sfshilo]

Oh man, I'm having some high hopes for this.

An actual new codex? With giant freaking robots? And they are knights? And they don't have stupid 10" blast D weapons so my opponent will let me field them? And they look amazing?


There is drool on my shirt.

[Mr Mystery]

Check out the front page. Forgeworld options? Looks like I'll be magnetizing both arms, after all...

No Sir, I think that's the Melta weapon off of the Errant.

[ElectricPaladin]

No Sir, I think that's the Melta weapon off of the Errant.

I was talking about this (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/02/40k-rumors-knight-addons-coming.html) article.

[Mr Mystery]

I was talking about this (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/02/40k-rumors-knight-addons-coming.html) article.

I'll be in my corner, wearing my hat.

Again.

[ElectricPaladin]

I'll be in my corner, wearing my hat.

Again.

As long as you're assembling your knight there, you're fine.

[Mr Mystery]

Had to dispense with my hobby budget for the time being, so no new toys for me.

[ElectricPaladin]

Had to dispense with my hobby budget for the time being, so no new toys for me.

:-(

[Mr Mystery]

Only for another couple of months.

Then it's serious toy time!

[daboarder]

Hey EP,

Could you do me a favour and let me know how much the limited codex is in aussie dollars?

I see the regular codex is considerably cheaper overall than they normally are,

[The Imperial Fist]

It didn't mention anything about new weapon options for the kit. But if we all know forgeworld, when a new kit comes out, they have to play with it somehow. I'm sure we can expect something in the months to come.

Forgeword is significantly better at communicating with customers than GW. People have been asking questions for days about Knights on their page and they have responded to many with "wait until the open day". So something for the Knights is coming, and people hve specifically asked about Fists and Plasma weapons and been given the same answer.

[ElectricPaladin]

So... I'm not sure there's a point in taking a knight with a fist, since it's likely to just be another D-weapon... though it will certainly be cool-looking. I predict that I will end up magnetizing the chainsword arm just in case and end up later on prying off the magnet to put the damn thing back on... but I'll get the fist anyway and just have some chainsworders and some... fisters. :-P

[Dietofliquor]

Hey EP,

Could you do me a favour and let me know how much the limited codex is in aussie dollars?

I see the regular codex is considerably cheaper overall than they normally are,

My apologies. But the limited edition in Aus is $195 :eek:

[daboarder]

My apologies. But the limited edition in Aus is $195 :eek:

OH MY ****ING GOD!!

Does that include any extra's other than the normal ones?

[DarkLink]

So... I'm not sure there's a point in taking a knight with a fist, since it's likely to just be another D-weapon...

It could be a double-D weapon.

[bfmusashi]

I see the president has equipped his knights with... the ballistics.

[Kirsten]

how rude

[The Imperial Fist]

It could be a double-D weapon.

I'm now imagining Jodie Marsh striding across the battlefield...

[Acaelus]

Page 13 of the New White Dwarf

"Knights who take the mantle of Freeblades cast aside the heraldry of their former houses. Tradition dictates that these Nobles adopt the Laurels Fidelis, a laurel-wreathed skull which indicates their continued loyalty towards the imperium of man, despite leaving their houses, an Imperial Knight wearing this symbol will fight for Mankind, even until death"

So guess that means Knights are only for Imperial Factions :P

[Tyrendian]

Page 13 of the New White Dwarf

"Knights who take the mantle of Freeblades cast aside the heraldry of their former houses. Tradition dictates that these Nobles adopt the Laurels Fidelis, a laurel-wreathed skull which indicates their continued loyalty towards the imperium of man, despite leaving their houses, an Imperial Knight wearing this symbol will fight for Mankind, even until death"

So guess that means Knights are only for Imperial Factions :P

hopefully... it's not like the Codex is called Imperial-and-Freeblade-who-will-work-for-the-guys-who-want-to-kill-all-life-in-the-Galaxy Knights...
Chaos versions aside off course, no problem with that, but that's probably what ForgeWorld is for, or your own creativity and the common sense of your gaming group...

[Tomgar]

hopefully... it's not like the Codex is called Imperial-and-Freeblade-who-will-work-for-the-guys-who-want-to-kill-all-life-in-the-Galaxy Knights...
Chaos versions aside off course, no problem with that, but that's probably what ForgeWorld is for, or your own creativity and the common sense of your gaming group...

Agreed. I really hope Chaos players can take these as it's fluffy and makes sense. But Eldar? Tau? They have their big, flashy units and I doubt the Knight Nobles would freely hire themselves out to Xenos factions.

[Tyrendian]

Agreed. I really hope Chaos players can take these as it's fluffy and makes sense. But Eldar? Tau? They have their big, flashy units and I doubt the Knight Nobles would freely hire themselves out to Xenos factions.

then again, on second thought and kinda gainsaying myself, the rules are easily generic enough to be applicable to most other races, so that leaves fancy conversions an open door (kinda like with how everyone can take Fortifications although the models are very Imperial)
I mean, what equipment do we have on the Knights?
Big Boom Stick (aka Rapid Fire Battle Cannon) - now if that's not generic what is? Profile would fit just about any kind of weapon, not just "standard" cannon/explosive type thingies
Big Melta Cannon - it's not like the other races weren't using Melta weaponry already...
Big Honking Slapstick - check, just doesn't really fit Tau, but even they have their weird little Fusion Blades in Farsight, so there goes...
Big Flashy Shield - noone really likes getting shot to bits before getting to do anything... heck, even Orks have their KFFs...

That only leaves out Tyranids, for whom a Vehicle would feel incredibly wrong, and maybe Eldar of both ilks because it's just too well armoured, but they have their Wraithknight already/don't use any kind of heavy vehicle anyways, so that's not too too bad either...

[quindia]

On page 3 of the new WD while previewing the codex it says "There are also comprehensive rules for using your Imperial Knights in games, either as allies for a variety of existing Warhammer 40k armies (most prominently the armies of the Imperium), or as a primary detachment."

[Tannarak]

I had a crazy thought about the Knights. I don't have any of the current Fortification or Apoc Stuff but...

I wonder how many Knights can be deployed on a Skyshield Landing Pad so they can get their 4+ invul from all facings? Can they use it at all?

[Ankhalagon]

I had a crazy thought about the Knights. I don't have any of the current Fortification or Apoc Stuff but...

I wonder how many Knights can be deployed on a Skyshield Landing Pad so they can get their 4+ invul from all facings? Can they use it at all?
Two of them maybe? But....how are they getting up there?

[bfmusashi]

I imagine it's pretty easy to have a freeblade fight for a xenos with a little Rogue Tradering going on.

[The Imperial Fist]

Two of them maybe? But....how are they getting up there?
I guess deploying them on there is a good star. Other than 12" move, they move like a normal walker, so if you were next to it and rolled a 6 you could get up there too.

[Katharon]

It's movement is another reason why I don't like the inclusion of D-weapons. If deployed in such a way, its possible to be in someones face and smashing it into oblivion on turn one.

[The Imperial Fist]

It's movement is another reason why I don't like the inclusion of D-weapons. If deployed in such a way, its possible to be in someones face and smashing it into oblivion on turn one.

Not sure off the top of my head, as it's not been an issue with people I play as nothing gets into assault range first turn, but aren't first turn assaults no longer allowed?

[daboarder]

only for the first player turn

[ElectricPaladin]

This is a common misconception.

Units that Scout move or Infiltrate are specifically barred from first turn assaults. Nowhere else in the rules is anything else barred from first turn assaults. Everything else is allowed to assault Turn One, it's just mechanically impossible in most scenarios.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I've had people scout right in front of Draigo and friends and I warn them "you know I can assault you, right", and they've still done it. Whatever, free movement for me and I start the game up a kill point/first blood.

[George Labour]

In regards to the 'fluffiness' of allies. It's worth remembering that the Knight worlds are not entirely part of the Imperium. It's better to think of them as having the kind of Independence that Forge Worlds, some Astartes realms, and even (select) rogue trader domains can enjoy. They are partners, not subjects. Unless they change a LOT of the background..again.

Heck I can just imagine some random cryptek deciding he wants to put on a massive grimdark (space zombie robot) version of 'battlebots' and using Necron tech to hijack a handful just to show how great he is. Then of course there's always the cliched slow, but damning, seduction to the side of Chaos that ends up dragging so many from The Emperor's light.

So a justification can be made for anything.

So my prediction they'll be Battle Brothers with IG, maybe Tau and MAYBEEEE Space marines but less than that for everyone else. Tyrannids...will likely still not get them, but at least there's always Apocalypse.

[ElectricPaladin]

Father Gabe says

Looks good to me.

Chaos players do not fret. I'm sure we'll see hellknights soon enough, and they will be awesomer because they won't just be "Imperial Knights with spikes on." You will love them. I'm almost certain.

[daboarder]

I Reckon we'll be waiting as long for hellknights as we have been for legion rules.......

and when we do get them.....hellbrute......

well GW has just lost another 700 or so dollars with some inane loyalist love decision.

so far the tally for the last 2 months is GW not getting over a $1000 from me because they cant sort their **** out. My wallet on the other hand is having the time of its life.

[The Imperial Fist]

Father Gabe says

Any hints about if Baron/Lancer are in 'dex? Or just Errant and Paladin?

[White Tiger88]

I Reckon we'll be waiting as long for hellknights as we have been for legion rules.......

and when we do get them.....hellbrute......

well GW has just lost another 700 or so dollars with some inane loyalist love decision.

so far the tally for the last 2 months is GW not getting over a $1000 from me because they cant sort their **** out. My wallet on the other hand is having the time of its life.

I agree pretty big BS chaos doesnt get one......or hell we don't get ANYTHING we can allie with that much fire power. (Or anything but Belakor that will win in a 1 on 1 fight..)

[daboarder]

we get the **** mobile......I mean it will get murdered by an equivalent points in knights....or anything but gants......but we get that......

[The Imperial Fist]

we get the **** mobile......I mean it will get murdered by an equivalent points in knights....or anything but gants......but we get that......

Not a Chaos player myself, in fact death to all heretics etc etc, but even I think the fact someone decided making the sacred Khorne number it's cost in points was a completely dickish idea.

[White Tiger88]

Not a Chaos player myself, in fact death to all heretics etc etc, but even I think the fact someone decided making the sacred Khorne number it's cost in points was a completely dickish idea.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD!!!!!

*Cough*

I mean, come on give us the Demon Lords at least if imperial players get this BS!

[dannymiles]

Everyone I stole this from a friend of a friend. 7560

[White Tiger88]

Everyone I stole this from a friend of a friend. 7560

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q763/White_Tiger88/dothat_zps9bf74786.jpg (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/White_Tiger88/media/dothat_zps9bf74786.jpg.html)

Rub in that you guys get a giant robot why don't you!

[snider029]

I made a quick image to test out Knight Paint schemes.7561

[Skrall]

So if knights are from the age of strife, does that mean...

30k?

25k and earlier. they were already old by the time of the unification war

-skrall

[White Tiger88]

25k and earlier. they were already old by the time of the unification war

-skrall

Yet Chaos doesn't get them.....Go Games workshop!

[miteyheroes]

I think it's really odd that Chaos doesn't get to use Imperial Knights... No, wait a minute. The other thing.
You guys have the Lord of Skulls. Imperials don't get to use that, you don't get to use the Imperial Knights.

Although I do think that it's very odd that Eldar, Tau, Dark Eldar etc get to use them. I wouldn't have done that. It's stupid that every faction gets to have all the toys.

[daboarder]

I think it's really odd that Chaos doesn't get to use Imperial Knights... No, wait a minute. The other thing.
You guys have the Lord of Skulls. Imperials don't get to use that, you don't get to use the Imperial Knights.

Although I do think that it's very odd that Eldar, Tau, Dark Eldar etc get to use them. I wouldn't have done that. It's stupid that every faction gets to have all the toys.

Because IMPERIAL guard aren't allied to chaos to represent chaos guard...right? Go back to sniffing that plastic crack please

[miteyheroes]

Astra Militarium, I think you mean ;)

[daboarder]

sorry what? smoking plastic crack, thats the only explanation for using that as justification

[miteyheroes]

But the Imperial Knights - Paladins, Errants, Lancers, Crusaders etc are very different to the Chaos Knights - Hell Knights, Quaestors etc. http://www.solegends.com/citcat1995-6/cat19956p152-01.htm Or the other Chaos knight-equivalents, like the Lord of Skulls.

So why assume that Chaos would suddenly be able to have Paladins? It's not something that's appeared in the fluff outside the Heresy years (and, when Forgeworld releases Knight rules for 30k, no doubt you'll have them then). It's like assuming that just because Marines have Stalkers, Chaos should too. Or just because Chaos has Lords of Skulls, Marines should too. They're different forces, with different options.

[daboarder]

because a little frakking equality in the game would be nice for once

[White Tiger88]

because a little frakking equality in the game would be nice for once

One can hope.......but I dont see us chaos players ever getting love.

[daboarder]

me neither, I'm still waiting for legion books. and its been 10 years

[miteyheroes]

because a little frakking equality in the game would be nice for once

One can hope.......but I dont see us chaos players ever getting love.

Last year, Chaos and Necrons got super-heavy kits. This year, the Imperials got a super-heavy kit. Equality.

[gcsmith]

Anyone notice black Templars are listed as battle brothers despite no longer being legal codex, interesting.

[The Imperial Fist]

via Father Gabe (http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/02/codex-imperial-knight-details-questions.html#more) 2-26-2024Allies:
Battle Brothers: Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Space Marines, Space Wolves
Allies of Convenience: Eldar,Grey Knights
Desperate Allies: Dark Eldar, Tau Empire
Come the Apocalypse: Chaos Demons, Chaos Space Marines, Necrons, Orks, Tyranids
Am I the only one to be happy to still see Black Templars getting some love on the ally chart? Especially after the whole "Tau can ally with BT because that footnote on their chapter tactics doesn't apply to the ally chart" argument.

[gcsmith]

Am I the only one to be happy to still see Black Templars getting some love on the ally chart? Especially after the whole "Tau can ally with BT because that footnote on their chapter tactics doesn't apply to the ally chart" argument.

I like it, but the thing is, black Templars don't exist as a separate army any more, so it makes no sense to see them listed

[The Imperial Fist]

Anyone notice black Templars are listed as battle brothers despite no longer being legal codex, interesting.

Didn't see this before posting my remark below. I am personally very happy to see this. There is a note in the BT chapter tactics to say any reference to codex BT means C:SM with BT tactics. Now there was an argument a couple of months back, may not have been on here, can't remember, where someone was saying that now BT was in with C:SM Tau could ally with them and use the Crusader squads for some power armoured cc scoring ability. Myself and others pointed out that the note in the BT tactics meant that detachments of C:SM BTs still used the C:BT ally chart. Others argued it wasn't meant to include that even though the note specifically says all references to C:BT. They argued because they weren't on the SoB or Inquistition ally charts they were right. About ten of us at least emailed the FAQ email asking for clarification, so I'm hoping their inclusion here is at least partly in response to that.

[daboarder]

I like it, but the thing is, black Templars don't exist as a separate army any more, so it makes no sense to see them listed

space marines with the black templars chapter tactics still use the ally matrix for black templars, nto the one for SMs

[The Imperial Fist]

I like it, but the thing is, black Templars don't exist as a separate army any more, so it makes no sense to see them listed

It does, becuase of their chapter tactics they count as a seperate entity from C:SM on the allies matrix. Their inclusion on this matrix confirms their chapter tactics was referencing the ally matrix as well as references to them in other codices.

[The Imperial Fist]

me neither, I'm still waiting for legion books. and its been 10 years
Hopefully you'll get them in the next 12 months or so as suppliments. I reckon that even if the rumours of 7th are true (though I still think it will be 6.1), these codices will last for 7th as well, so there will be time for more suppliments.

[Lord-Boofhead]

because a little frakking equality in the game would be nice for once

Have you heard of Chess? Maybe that's the game for you then?

[daboarder]

Have you heard of Chess? Maybe that's the game for you then?

sorry chess isn't balanced, your logic fallacy is a fallacy

edit: Actually what are you even trying to say? you've used the cliche internet tough guy response to a request for "balance" but you've used it in reference to the concept of equality, are you really trying to suggest that the idea, that the armies get equal and fair treatment is somehow something to be disdained? REALLY?

[miteyheroes]

sorry chess isn't balanced, your logic fallacy is a fallacy

edit: Actually what are you even trying to say? you've used the cliche internet tough guy response to a request for "balance" but you've used it in reference to the concept of equality, are you really trying to suggest that the idea, that the armies get equal and fair treatment is somehow something to be disdained? REALLY?

I think he's saying that if you want both sides to have identical and equal armies, Chess is the game. In 40k, different armies have different units. So Chaos has the Lord of Skulls; the Imperials have Imperial Knights. Chaos have daemon engines and helldrakes; Space Marines have a different range of vehicles.

[TheAngryTemplar]

Didn't see this before posting my remark below. I am personally very happy to see this. There is a note in the BT chapter tactics to say any reference to codex BT means C:SM with BT tactics. Now there was an argument a couple of months back, may not have been on here, can't remember, where someone was saying that now BT was in with C:SM Tau could ally with them and use the Crusader squads for some power armoured cc scoring ability. Myself and others pointed out that the note in the BT tactics meant that detachments of C:SM BTs still used the C:BT ally chart. Others argued it wasn't meant to include that even though the note specifically says all references to C:BT. They argued because they weren't on the SoB or Inquistition ally charts they were right. About ten of us at least emailed the FAQ email asking for clarification, so I'm hoping their inclusion here is at least partly in response to that.

On one hand, I'm glad that GW isn't completely ignoring that BT is still a thing, since it's kind of felt that way the last half-year. On the other hand, that sucks because that means we can't ally with the Sisters of Battle, even though our "new and improved fluff" says we're pretty good bros..

[bfmusashi]

Just checking on the logic here, because you had some silly idea that Codex: Inquisition should be able to ally with Codex: Chaos Space Marines, but the idea is the Knights should be in Chaos because they're recent renegades? 'cause it's been made clear knights from the Heresy do not look like this anymore.

[The Imperial Fist]

On one hand, I'm glad that GW isn't completely ignoring that BT is still a thing, since it's kind of felt that way the last half-year. On the other hand, that sucks because that means we can't ally with the Sisters of Battle, even though our "new and improved fluff" says we're pretty good bros..
You can, as C:BT isn't mentioned on the SoB table so they default to C:SM. The C:BT thing on the ally matrix only comes into play when they are mentioned on it - they're not there at all so the rule doesn't come into effect.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Looks good to me.

Chaos players do not fret. I'm sure we'll see hellknights soon enough, and they will be awesomer because they won't just be "Imperial Knights with spikes on." You will love them. I'm almost certain.

Yeah faster and more shooty.

IF they do do Slaanesh Knights will we also see either in Plastic/FW Resin Doomwings/Firelords and Plague Towers/Catapults?

[MajorWesJanson]

Yeah faster and more shooty.

IF they do do Slaanesh Knights will we also see either in Plastic/FW Resin Doomwings/Firelords and Plague Towers/Catapults?

We already have Doomwings- the Baledrake is just a genericized version of it. I'd hope for a silver tower, similar in size to say the Tesseract vault.

[Lord-Boofhead]

sorry chess isn't balanced, your logic fallacy is a fallacy

You are right I totally hate it how black has 3 queens and white only has to use pawns and knights.


edit: Actually what are you even trying to say? you've used the cliche internet tough guy response to a request for "balance" but you've used it in reference to the concept of equality, are you really trying to suggest that the idea, that the armies get equal and fair treatment is somehow something to be disdained? REALLY?

I'm saying if you want your wardollies to have the same set of toys in all the different armies Warhammer is not the game for you. Maybe historical gaming say Napolionics?

"And what does ' equal and fair treatment' even mean in this context? Equal Rights for Gretchin and White Shields? Equal pay for Soritas?


I think he's saying that if you want both sides to have identical and equal armies, Chess is the game. In 40k, different armies have different units. So Chaos has the Lord of Skulls; the Imperials have Imperial Knights. Chaos have daemon engines and helldrakes; Space Marines have a different range of vehicles.

Yeah I thought that was self evident. Different Armies have different things.

Additionally I think he misunderstands what Allies are for, they aren't to make the armies out there more alike but to give more options and make them less alike. Also the combinations are based on the background.

[Lord-Boofhead]

We already have Doomwings- the Baledrake is just a genericized version of it. I'd hope for a silver tower, similar in size to say the Tesseract vault.

Yeah I'm planning on converting up some Doomwings out of the Helldrake and the Pheonix kit as soon as I can work out where to get the right sized bird skull.

Also Fire Lord as a Super Heavy then.

[The Imperial Fist]

Additionally I think he misunderstands what Allies are for, they aren't to make the armies out there more alike but to give more options and make them less alike. Also the combinations are based on the background.

Or a more cynical person might think they were re-introduced to sell more kits ;-)

[Lord-Boofhead]

Or a more cynical person might think they were re-introduced to sell more kits ;-)

Well that to.

makes it easir for folks who already play to start a new army...

On the Topic of Allies I'm a bit disappointed/supprised that Inquisitors aren't listed.

Not even mentioned in the Come the Apocalypse list. Neither are Legion of the Damned

Which means

a) Rumour is bunk
b) Rumour Monger only got a glance at the table.
c) GW dropped the ball and it will be FAQed.

[Tyrendian]

On the Topic of Allies I'm a bit disappointed/supprised that Inquisitors aren't listed.

Not even mentioned in the Come the Apocalypse list. Neither are Legion of the Damned

Which means

a) Rumour is bunk
b) Rumour Monger only got a glance at the table.
c) GW dropped the ball and it will be FAQed.

with all three being equally likely, with maybe a slight advantage for c)

[deinol]

Because IMPERIAL guard aren't allied to chaos to represent chaos guard...right? Go back to sniffing that plastic crack please

Or maybe GW has plans for a Chaos kit, and chaos knight rules will come out when it does?

In the meantime, if a friend wanted to use these rules for a chaos knight in a friendly game, I'd allow it. Play how you want, you don't really need to pay that much attention to what is "official".

[SaveModifier]

Or maybe GW has plans for a Chaos kit, and chaos knight rules will come out when it does?

In the meantime, if a friend wanted to use these rules for a chaos knight in a friendly game, I'd allow it. Play how you want, you don't really need to pay that much attention to what is "official".

GW has said so many times that you should make the game what you enjoy, so if you want to use Knights in your Chaos army, make sure your opponent is cool with it and go to town, the fact that half the community ****s itself at the very thought of acting like grown ups when playing with space barbies is the problem

[Archon]

I don´t like that I have to buy a "codex" for a single "miniature" and i decided that i´ll NOT buy it. But I allready have preordered a knight, because i love this thing and always hoped that they bring us one. That they have done! So it will allie with my (chaos)guard and they will allie with my csm and voila a chaos knigth - did that count?:p

[Popsical]

Ah. Its good to see the usual "why not chaos" beaatch fest has manifested again.
Chaos and nids sell well no matter how much GW annoy their fanboiys.
They tend to pump up the races that are less able to sell themselves.
Odd or obvious?

[Eberk]

GW has said so many times that you should make the game what you enjoy, so if you want to use Knights in your Chaos army, make sure your opponent is cool with it and go to town
Yup, this is what I am going to do. I'll make up my own fluff for a (probably Slaanesh) traitor house, pick myself a nice traitor colour scheme and play them as Chaos Knights. And nobody I normaly play against will object about that, I'm certain about that.

[bfmusashi]

I don´t like that I have to buy a "codex" for a single "miniature" and i decided that i´ll NOT buy it. But I allready have preordered a knight, because i love this thing and always hoped that they bring us one. That they have done! So it will allie with my (chaos)guard and they will allie with my csm and voila a chaos knigth - did that count?:p

Looks legit and fun to play against.

[deinol]

I don´t like that I have to buy a "codex" for a single "miniature" and i decided that i´ll NOT buy it. But I allready have preordered a knight, because i love this thing and always hoped that they bring us one. That they have done! So it will allie with my (chaos)guard and they will allie with my csm and voila a chaos knigth - did that count?:p

Luckily you can get all the rules you need for a $4 WD. Hey, we asked them to start putting real rules back in WD, and they did!

[Tyrendian]

Luckily you can get all the rules you need for a $4 WD. Hey, we asked them to start putting real rules back in WD, and they did!

yeah WD plus that mysterious "Internet" everyone keeps talking about should together be able to provide one with the needed info...

[Katharon]

When I hold a "Codex: Imperial Knights" in my hand, I'll be happy and maybe buy a model. Not damn well before.

[Bigred]

GW Knight Assembly Video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njhLv_nyP_s#t=417

[Patrick Boyle]

I like these how-to videos they've been doing lately. I wonder how practical it would be to not lock the arms in place so it remains pose-able. There's a bit somewhere in the White Dwarf that talks about using a bit of sprue at the joint between the body and the legs to make it so the model can rotate on that joint. Hmm...

[Deadlift]

GW has said so many times that you should make the game what you enjoy, so if you want to use Knights in your Chaos army, make sure your opponent is cool with it and go to town, the fact that half the community ****s itself at the very thought of acting like grown ups when playing with space barbies is the problem

I think this maybe the best thing I have read on here in a long while. :)

[Tannarak]

I'm starting to wonder what the difference is between a "codex" and a "data slate". Same thing just one is a hard copy and the other a soft copy?

[Patrick Boyle]

I'm starting to wonder what the difference is between a "codex" and a "data slate". Same thing just one is a hard copy and the other a soft copy?

Dataslates can't be run by themselves; they either a unit to a codex(there's the Cypher Dataslate that added Cypher as an HQ choice for the armies he's available for, Belakor likewise, etc.), or represent Formations that can be slotted in, independent of force org or allies slots(All of the Christmas things, the Tyranid Leviathan Rising dataslate series, etc.).

Codexes are still Codexes; An army list with a Force Org chart that can act as a Primary Detachment, or an allied detachment(or in the special case of the Inquisition Codex, there's the special Inquisition allied detachment).

They're very, very different things.

[Bigred]

Imperial Knights Week 2 Up for Pre-order

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3830196a_60040108001_IKLtdEdnCodex01_873x627.jpg
Imperial Knights Limited Edition (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2380165a) $115

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3830154a_60030108006_IKCodexENG01_873x627.jpg
Codex Imperial Knights (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2380163a)
$41

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3830169a_60040108002_IKCompanionBook03_873x627.jp g
Imperial Knight Companion (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2380168a) $74.25



Knights of the Imperium (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2380103a) $24

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

First "weekly" release to not have any plastic kits alongside it...interesting. Also the first codex (at least printed?) to be dedicated to a single plastic kit. Who would of guessed that?

[ElectricPaladin]

Oh man... $74 is a lot, but I really want that Companion...

[The Imperial Fist]

It really is just for the two models, that's just bad. After releasing the rules in WD too. I wonder how many will actually sell in comparison to the Knight kits themselves.

[Tomgar]

Yeah, I'm just going to flip through to see if there are any differences with the WD rules. If there aren't, there's no way I'm spending £25 on Codex when I could spend it on some nice new Wood Elves...

[Deadlift]

Well I've just ordered all 3 books in the "collection"

Super excited too. :D

[Tomgar]

Just noticed the Assembly video is unlisted and you an only view it if you have the link... Possibly a stupid question but would anyone know why that is? Seems kind of stupid to make it that hard to find your video.

[Tyrendian]

Just noticed the Assembly video is unlisted and you an only view it if you have the link... Possibly a stupid question but would anyone know why that is? Seems kind of stupid to make it that hard to find your video.

same reason they deactivated comments maybe? afraid of their community?

[Tomgar]

same reason they deactivated comments maybe? afraid of their community?

It's such a nice, useful video though! Once I track down the other 3, I'll definitely being using them to help assemble my Knight.

[Jimmynurgle]

It really is just for the two models, that's just bad. After releasing the rules in WD too. I wonder how many will actually sell in comparison to the Knight kits themselves.

So... a full codex for just 2 (admittedly 2 really big) models? REALLY?? I was hoping for a House army list or something AM related... but 2 models? It seems GW thinks it's customers' get dumber and more naive every month.........

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Man I'm so glad all that Adeptus Mechanicus stuff people were rumouring turned out to be real, right!!!!! It'll slot right in next to my three Imperial Knights army variations, my Inquisitor 28 mm skirmish game, and my Summer of Fliers.

Don't listen to rumours, kids.

You say a "full codex", but actually it's a very small codex. 64 pages is dinky.

[Murphy80]

It's true; the Knights are released. I picked mine up last night and started building:
7610

[Arkhan Land]

Im sure glad they printed little $5 dollar codexes for everyone last week

[jonsgot]

So... a full codex for just 2 (admittedly 2 really big) models? REALLY?? I was hoping for a House army list or something AM related... but 2 models? It seems GW thinks it's customers' get dumber and more naive every month.........
It's a shame they haven't made a variant that just has both guns, I'm not saying it would be a good unit. Just seems an opertunity missed.

[quindia]

At least it looks like the rules for super heavy walkers are included in the codex (it's on the latest video preview on the GW site). I realize they could have done better with the initial kit... I would like to have least seen a second arm for the left side included and articulated knees, but the model has tons of potential and I'm sure we'll be swimming in FW bits very soon.

[Bigred]

GW Week 2 Knight Product Video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDEJmOfNHcM

[Deadlift]

Im sure glad they printed little $5 dollar codexes for everyone last week

have you read the codex then ?

[Eberk]

have you read the codex then ?

I think he means last weeks White Dwarf ;)


This weeks White Dwarf contains some strange Knights listed in the forces of the battle report. They talk about a "Knight Seneschal" & a "Knight Apparent" (next to Knights & Freeblades).
Could these be options from the codex making the Knight better/worse ? (cost more/less) ?

[quindia]

Don't think it's a points thing... More of a roll on a chart thing... 1 scrub, 2-5 knight, 6 badass...

Points would probably have been better!

[The Imperial Fist]

I think he means last weeks White Dwarf ;)


This weeks White Dwarf contains some strange Knights listed in the forces of the battle report. They talk about a "Knight Seneschal" & a "Knight Apparent" (next to Knights & Freeblades).
Could these be options from the codex making the Knight better/worse ? (cost more/less) ?

Someone posted the table from the codex somewhere, either here or on another thread, I think a roll of one worsens the ws and bs, 2-5 does nothing, and 6 adds one to ws and bs, IIRC.

[Tyrendian]

Someone posted the table from the codex somewhere, either here or on another thread, I think a roll of one worsens the ws and bs, 2-5 does nothing, and 6 adds one to ws and bs, IIRC.

yeah that's what I seem to remember as well... curious if one has to roll on that table though - if I have the option I know I won't (know my luck all too well for that...)

[miteyheroes]

I think that Seneschal is the name for a Knight being a Warlord?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You're right mitey.


Also, looked through the Knight Companion today, such a pretty book! ERMAGHERD.

[ElectricPaladin]

You're right mitey.

Also, looked through the Knight Companion today, such a pretty book! ERMAGHERD.

OMG, TDA, LMNOP stop telling me that the Companion is awesome. Then I'll have to buy it.

[Patrick Boyle]

At least it looks like the rules for super heavy walkers are included in the codex (it's on the latest video preview on the GW site). I realize they could have done better with the initial kit... I would like to have least seen a second arm for the left side included and articulated knees, but the model has tons of potential and I'm sure we'll be swimming in FW bits very soon.

I feel like the legs are probably static because it's a veeeery top heavy model and having the static legs helps ensure it won't topple over on people. Sure, some people could handle posing them in ways that can stand, and those people should be able to do so still, but this ensures that generally it's not an issue. Finished the basic building on mine today. Need to work out how to magnetize to swap the guns then it's time for primer.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3802/12866975163_7cb8cee99d_b.jpg

[The Imperial Fist]

The companion is awesome. Lots of fluff, lots of named Knights with individual colour schemes for the big Houses and Freeblades. (For any other Fist fans out there, Hawkshrowd may be the way to go - yellow armour and covered in IF campaign badges).

Also, having constructed my first Knight today, they are a pleasure to build. Some small fidly bits with the railings, but overall easy to build, lots of movement left after building. Gun arm isn't easily magnetised though - the melta arm has a part that goes inside the main assembly. However they can be taken off after building so maybe get a second arm from bits seller.

[The Imperial Fist]

From the companion.

[ElectricPaladin]

Re: Freeblades.

Is it just me, or do some of the stories of the Freeblades imply that their pilots have become something not quite human? There are Freeblades who are the only living thing left on the planet they guard, Freeblades that can return after being destroyed, and Freeblades who appear and disappear mysteriously and seem to lack the infrastructure to care for an enormous walking war machine. There are Freeblades who have been said to be on the same mission for hundreds of years, and while I know that the world of Warhammer 40k has anagathic technologies - the "rejuvenat" process - but those technologies also take infrastructure... which most Freeblades aren't exactly keeping in their back pockets.

I strongly suspect that there is going to be a sub-plot - or at least an implication - that the pilot's mind can merge with his machine upon his death. Maybe it's related to the pilot being a nascent psyker. If he dies "in the saddle" with sufficiently intense emotions playing out in his mind, he can become the machine. This frees the machine from certain restraints, giving it an almost Daemon-like ability to heal itself. Perhaps the really old ones - like Gerantius's, whose presence is said to heal the wounded and bring cleansing rains - have other powers thanks to their semi-material nature.

They do call the pilot's seat a Throne Mechanicus, after all... There's another "throne" that everyone likes to talk about... :p

And yes, now I kind of want to play a somewhat shy and anxious knight who has been pressured into taking on the suit of armor that once belonged to his mother, who spent several years as a Freeblade before finally taking down the Chaos warband who [INSERT TERRIBLE DEED HERE], at which point her mysteriously empty armor was recovered by the family. 10 Internet points to the person who gets the reference.

[miteyheroes]

Another cool thing from the Companion: I noticed someone called Baron Something, someone called The Lancer of Something and a Warden of Something. Nice little shout-outs to the Epic fans (although does suggest that we won't see them as separate models - they were all just Paladin/Errants).

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Baron Roland, The Lancer of Fire, and The Whie Warden. :p

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The Companion is a really nice book, had a thumb through it yesterday. Anyone else notice that it's actually written and produced by the Forge World team?

[The Imperial Fist]

The Companion is a really nice book, had a thumb through it yesterday. Anyone else notice that it's actually written and produced by the Forge World team?

Actually missed that, was distracted by all the pretty pictures. I did notice that the LE Sentinels of Terra was produced by Citadel Vault though, new publication team?

[miteyheroes]

This said Citadel Vault on the back as well. Interesting...

[Defenestratus]

I Reckon we'll be waiting as long for hellknights as we have been for legion rules.......

and when we do get them.....hellbrute......

well GW has just lost another 700 or so dollars with some inane loyalist love decision.

so far the tally for the last 2 months is GW not getting over a $1000 from me because they cant sort their **** out. My wallet on the other hand is having the time of its life.

Dude,

Anyone that doesn't let you play with your nicely painted and spikey-bitted Knight in a Chaos list is just a turd not worth playing.

[Defenestratus]

I feel like the legs are probably static because it's a veeeery top heavy model and having the static legs helps ensure it won't topple over on people. Sure, some people could handle posing them in ways that can stand, and those people should be able to do so still, but this ensures that generally it's not an issue. Finished the basic building on mine today. Need to work out how to magnetize to swap the guns then it's time for primer.



Could have done what they did with the WK and just keyed the sockets so that there's a "default" (aka boring) pose. That way you could easily make the kit appealing to both novice and experienced modellers alike.

Its one of the reasons I've softened my criticism of the WK kit as its just as much fun to pose as its FW bigger brothers (except the elbows... wish they were jointed, but at least they give you two options per arm)

[OmahaRenegade]

Does anyone else think that the Imperial Knights seem almost like a reaction to Privateer Press' Warmachines? The Imperial Knights look a lot like Cygnar Warjacks...

[Defenestratus]

Does anyone else think that the Imperial Knights seem almost like a reaction to Privateer Press' Warmachines? The Imperial Knights look a lot like Cygnar Warjacks...

They look like the Epic/Space Marine models which predate any abomination that PP has released.

[Mr Mystery]

They look like the Epic/Space Marine models which predate any abomination that PP has released.

Quite so. Plus, these aren't as ridiculously top heavy as PP sculpts.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Have you noticed how much the Space Marine game looks like Gears of War? Makes you think.

[Tomgar]

They look like the Epic/Space Marine models which predate any abomination that PP has released.

I swear people are being paid by PP to come on and advertise that thing. I think it looks like a knock-off action figure personally so no ta. Also, if I rolled up in my local GW to play a game with that, I'd get chucked out before you could say "BY THE THRONE!"

And don't even get me started on the Dreaforge Leviathan... :p

[quindia]

Could have done what they did with the WK and just keyed the sockets so that there's a "default" (aka boring) pose. That way you could easily make the kit appealing to both novice and experienced modellers alike.

Its one of the reasons I've softened my criticism of the WK kit as its just as much fun to pose as its FW bigger brothers (except the elbows... wish they were jointed, but at least they give you two options per arm)

There are a lot of pistons and cables that follow the pose as well. The pistons on each foot would have been a fairly complicated bit of kit for beginners IMO as a number of separate bits. I would like to have more options as well, but I understand why the legs are static after playing around with the kit.

[ElectricPaladin]

I kinda like the PP 'jacks, even the giant ones. They're a bit silly, but GW's design style isn't exactly gritty and realistic. Honestly, there's something kind of nice about an aesthetic that embraces the cartoony nature of heroic scale and plays that up. It makes the huge-handed hyper-cephalic models easier to swallow.

But I'm not complaining. I love the Imperial Knight, too. It was fun to build, fun to pose, and will be fun to paint... once I get my hands on the codex and the companion so I can pick a house!

[John Bower]

They look like the Epic/Space Marine models which predate any abomination that PP has released.

It doesn't mean the 40k version isn't a reaction to the popularity of Warmahordes though..... seriously, I came into 40k in 2k9 and 5th ed. Back then the only 'walkers' in it were the Stompa (soon after Apoc was released) and of course the Dreadnoughts and ork Killer kanz/Deff dreads, and the Wraitlord which doesn't really count being an MC. Now it seems it's turning into battlemech 40k to me, with the troops and tanks as background characters to the 'mechs' which are coming in by the droves. I mean, the walkers in 5ed really don't count for what I'm saying here, they were barely much bigger than the dudes around them, now we seem to be looking at what (in scale) are 40 foot plus tanks on legs.

It will soon be that if you don't have a super heavy in your list, you may as well pack up and go home. You're opponent has won by default because you won't be able to keep ordinary troops alive long enough to hold any objectives.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

The big factor is not Warmachine, which is still a small part of the market comparatively speaking, but in GW's capacity to produce large plastic kits, which came online from about 2007 onwards. The reason every army is getting a big centrepiece kit these days is because they can make those things now; it means that stuff which has always been in the background is now feasible to reproduce in 40k scale.

[The Imperial Fist]

I feel like the legs are probably static because it's a veeeery top heavy model and having the static legs helps ensure it won't topple over on people. Sure, some people could handle posing them in ways that can stand, and those people should be able to do so still, but this ensures that generally it's not an issue. Finished the basic building on mine today. Need to work out how to magnetize to swap the guns then it's time for primer.

I don't think the leg would be that hard to repose and I think it has been thought about so you can. There is a lot of space in the joint between the knee and lower leg to allow you to get it and cut it, and the way the piston fits between hip and upper leg it would require no work if the leg was repositioned. Where the neck of femur joins the hip is also a hexagonal slot so could be repositioned there too with no work. The piping may be more work, but a little heating and bending should be enough. I am contemplating doing that with my next one, having the left leg fit onto the hip one position clockwise than the standard, cutting it at the knee and repositioning and then have that leg stomping on some Iron Warrior (*spit*) Helbrute.

[DWest]

So, couple of things I've noticed while assembling my Knight: 1) there's a socket on top of the carapace that currently does nothing. 2) all the weapons bits are on a single sprue (admittedly with a couple of hull bits, but they're mostly head and cockpit). And so I'm wondering if this doesn't lend more credence to the idea that there will be variant kits eventually?

[quindia]

Already working on a knight clambering through a city ruin. I cut the left leg into two pieces, repositioned it at the hip, and made a new hose from a spare bit of an old necklace that is almost the perfect size (guitar strings would work well too). You are correct that this hip piston fits even when the leg is raised.

It's mainly the foot that will be a pain to reposition... For my purposes it wasn't necessary because of the way I've arranged the rubble.

I'll post some pics in a couple of days in the appropriate forum section...

[The Imperial Fist]

So, couple of things I've noticed while assembling my Knight: 1) there's a socket on top of the carapace that currently does nothing. 2) all the weapons bits are on a single sprue (admittedly with a couple of hull bits, but they're mostly head and cockpit). And so I'm wondering if this doesn't lend more credence to the idea that there will be variant kits eventually?

The little hole? Yeah, was wondering if that would be for anything later on, like a Reaver style missile launcher.

[Bigred]

Imperial Knights Painting and Assembly (Pt 2)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmb_gAg905Q

[YourSwordisMine]

Imperial Knights Painting and Assembly (Pt 2)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmb_gAg905Q

I hope they do more of these series. These are GOOD videos and they really need to do more like them.

I just got my Knights today. I am looking forward to assembling them!

[Bigred]

YourSwordisMine said:

I hope they do more of these series. These are GOOD videos and they really need to do more like them.

and like MAGIC....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pB-0089Cc4

[White Tiger88]

YourSwordisMine said:


and like MAGIC....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pB-0089Cc4

All this video does is make me want the Chainsword arm.............Grrrr stupid non-bit selling Gw....

[YourSwordisMine]

YourSwordisMine said:


and like MAGIC....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pB-0089Cc4

I really wish videos like this existed back in the early 90s when I started painting... Would have made the years of trail and error with far less error... I hope they do more of these for other projects than the Knight.

[Patrick Boyle]

I really wish videos like this existed back in the early 90s when I started painting... Would have made the years of trail and error with far less error... I hope they do more of these for other projects than the Knight.

They made a series of them for the new technical paints back when those released. This is the first I've seen since, unless I wasn't paying attention.

[miteyheroes]

They are really good. Clear, interesting, good hints and tips. The round up at the end is rather patronising, but I'm a big fan.

[YourSwordisMine]

They are really good. Clear, interesting, good hints and tips. The round up at the end is rather patronising, but I'm a big fan.

As an adult, I can see how it could be taken thusly. I don't think my 14-18 year old self would have however, and that's probably their main audience for these videos. I know I would have eaten it up at that age.

[Mr Mystery]

The little hole?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7Se7iswAanA/S8TP3UC6OBI/AAAAAAAALMY/LXpI4lqmrqE/s200/finbarr%2Bsaunders.jpg

Sorry. I can never resist a crap innuendo!

Ahem....yes...

Right, I do wonder if the Codex is going to throw up some surprises. GW have been pretty good of late when it comes to playing tight mouth larry and hiding things. Perhaps the Codex will contain a different variant of Knight?

[Tomgar]

I consider myself a fair painter and I've still picked up some useful stuff from these videos. I'd love to see GW put them out way more often, really handy and clearly done.

[Deadlift]

I consider myself a fair painter and I've still picked up some useful stuff from these videos. I'd love to see GW put them out way more often, really handy and clearly done.

Couldn't agree more, the videos may come across a bit condescending at times but lets not forget they are for painters of all standards and ages. I for one really liked them.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I liked the videos too. I knew most of it, but there were a few little things in them that I did not know that I can apply to painting all of my miniatures in general :)

[Bigred]

Final details and decal application video from GW:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I36AWCdNJCY

[Patrick Boyle]

I feel like an idiot, but it never occurred to me to take the transfer paper out of the water with the decal still on and then actually push the decal off right onto the model. So many wasted Forgeworld Blood Ravens transfers...

[Defenestratus]

Played against 3 knights last night @ 2k pts. Managed to table them by the end of turn 5 with my non-supplement Iyanden list.

Here's a hint: If you're not running them FULL SPEED towards your opponent, you're doing it wrong :)

[Herzlos]

Played against 3 knights last night @ 2k pts. Managed to table them by the end of turn 5 with my non-supplement Iyanden list.

Here's a hint: If you're not running them FULL SPEED towards your opponent, you're doing it wrong :)

Any chance of a brief batrep?

[Katharon]

Still not buying a damned thing until I get that codex...which should be this weekend. After a good read-through, I'll consider it. But honestly, I think I'm going to wait for the IG release.

[Defenestratus]

Any chance of a brief batrep?

Sure.

As best as I can remember.... His list: 3 knights (2 with melta, 1 with battlecannon) tigirius, 3 cents with grav goodies, 2 10man tac squads with rhinos and grav goodies.
My list... Naked Spiritseer, Wraithseer with D-cannon, 10 WG with Cannons, 5 WG with d-scythes in Serpent w/scatterlasers/cannon/HF, 9 WB with axes, Hemlock, 2 Wraithlords with brightlance and sword, 1 WK with cannons. (Note that this list was not custom tailored for his 3 knights, this is my 2000pt escalation league list) We were just interested in seeing how the knights did so we just played annhilation/dow.

I deployed first with the serpent behind some ruins on my left flank, 10WG in a ruin building that had a nice solid wall I could hide them behind (terrain was pre-placed), with the Wraithseer nearby and a WL. Just to the right of them were the WB's with the attached spiritseer... the other WL and the WK on the far right. He deployed with the three knights spaced equally along his deployment zone... one 10 man squad near the middle with the two rhinos providing mobile cover/sniping window. The Cents/tiggy and the other 10 man squad were on a hill to his left flank (my right) on a hill (Realm of battle board hill).

He failed to seize and it was nightfight the first round (thank goodness). I went first... WK jumped up behind a tall building getting cover from all the Knights. I put him out there as bait to get the Knights to charge close in range of my 10 WG squad. I cast conceal (totally forgot to cast protect, durka durka) on my WB, along with FNP from the WSeer. Ran them up the middle behind that same piece of ruin that the WK was behind. (MOAR BAIT!) WK and WL shoot at the grav gun cents .. killing only one. WG were out of range, Wseer shot his d-cannon and glanced the knight on my left flank, and the wave serpent shot the scatter laser and cannon and managed to do another HP of damage on it. Other two knights were unscathed.

His turn I expected the Knights to move up 12" and assault all the bait I put up there. He might have sniffed that out though, because he moved them BACK about 4". other squads stood still and shot. Tigirius cast prescience, 4++ inv, and misfortune on my WK. Then the grav guns shot at it. Did 9 wounds to him and thanks to Night fight and cover, I got a 3+ cover save. With supreme luck I was able to save all but 3 wounds. WK lives to see another round! The WB took 4 casualties to knight fire, and thats all the damage I took. Serpent was shot at by melta but it failed to pen/glance.

Turn 2 my hemlock comes in and flies down the right flank to setup close to the centurions and the 10 man squad of marines. WSeer perils himself casting FNP on the WB's. I fail my protect psychic roll but manage to get off conceal. No bueno. They aren't going to last another round. WK jumps to within 4" of the centurions and adjacent 10 man tac squad. WB's move up into the ruins they were hiding behind, within 6" of the middle Knight. I can see he's not going to take my bait so I move the WG out of cover into the middle of the field. Wseer moves ahead of them and moved up behind a bunker that provided him a decent cover save. I start shooting.... WK fires into the cents again wiffing on both shots (gah!). WL fires on the right flank knight but he saves his ion shield. Hemlock fires on the tac squad and cents, doing a wound to a cent and killing three marines. Serpent moves closer to the left flank knight, fires everything at him including the shield and does a hullpoint. Wseer fires his dcannon at the middle Knight. Hits. Pens. Rolls a 5 on the damage chart. AP2 means explosion... I roll a 6 for the additional damage so it takes 3 more HP in damage for a total of 4. All of a sudden my WBlades look like they can take it out. They charge... losing one to overwatch heavy stubber fire (gah!). WK charges into the centurions and the tac squad. WK Smashes all the centurions and tiggy. Krak grenades are thrown in response and they fail. They lose combat by a lot.... take a morale check and pass BUT THE HEMLOCK makes them re-roll it and they fail.... running for the table edge but don't quite make it). The blades fail to even scratch the paint on the center Knight through some crappy rolling (I only hit three times total) and thus it escapes combat after killing only a single WB in response.

His turn. His combined fire annihilates the WB's and spiritseer. He does 2 wounds to the WK with a grav gun and STILL DOESN'T charge my WK which is inches away from the right flank Knight. I donno why. My WK had only a single wound left.

My turn the WK shoots and does 2 damage to the right most Knight. A bright lance adds another one. He's at half strength... I'm telling myself "Fortune favors the bold (but pities the fool)" and charge my WK into combat with hit. Hemlock goes and tries to cast terrify on the squad of marines that are on the edge of the table but they're > 12" away and thus don't have to reroll their successful morale check. It then moves towards the middle and tries to shoot the so-far unscathed unit of marines in the middle and kills 5 marines. They pass the first morale check but fail the second but only run 3" so they stick around to fight another round. I shoot the serpent at the left most knight bringing it down to 1 HP. Wseer tries to shoot the center knight that has 2 HP left but fails to hit. WK charges into the Knight. I kill it but the resulting explosion kills the WK. One knight down, 2 to go.

His turn. The center knight shoots at the WG killing 2. It assaults the Wseer. They kill each other. Left flank Knight tries to shoot the serpent but it was placed behind terrain and thus saved its 3+ cover save. The center squad of marines shoots at the hemlock that almost made them run away, locking its velocity.

My turn the WG move forward and blow up the last knight but in the explosion I manage to lose all but two WG!!! The Serpent drops off the D-scythe WG and they mop of the remnants of the center SM squad while the serpent kills an empty rhino.

At this point he had 6 marines left and he called the game (it was getting late anyways). The first thing he said afterwards was "I didn't play them right at all... I should have run them at you right away." I agreed. He might have fallen into my trap, but if he did it with all three of his knights, I might have been able to clear away one knight due to WG fire, but I would have been smitten next round.

[Charon]

Thats was pretty much one of the hardest lists for a knight to face and still it doesnt sound too one-sided. Im not even sure if I can field that many heavy weapons needed to even scratch a knight...

I dont know if the knight is different but superheavies cant fire overwatch.

[Defenestratus]

Thats was pretty much one of the hardest lists for a knight to face and still it doesnt sound too one-sided. Im not even sure if I can field that many heavy weapons needed to even scratch a knight...

I dont know if the knight is different but superheavies cant fire overwatch.

People at the store have claimed that my list is beardy. I don't know really how. I'm not spamming a single unit (two Wraithlords maybe). I've got a fluffy list and I'm not using the supplement that makes them broken to do it.

I'm not using a single farseer. Only one wave serpent. I'm using the flyer that supposedly stinks... so yeah....

As for superheavies not being able to fire overwatch... I might have missed it somewhere but super heavy walkers follow the normal rules for walkers except for what their special rules allow... They cannot snap fire their battlecannon or melta blaster but they can snap fire their heavy stubbers IMO.

[ElectricPaladin]

As for superheavies not being able to fire overwatch... I might have missed it somewhere but super heavy walkers follow the normal rules for walkers except for what their special rules allow... They cannot snap fire their battlecannon or melta blaster but they can snap fire their heavy stubbers IMO.

I actually think I recall that being a special rule. But you're right... it doesn't really matter, given that the stubbers are practically useless as actual weapons.

[Charon]

People at the store have claimed that my list is beardy. I don't know really how. I'm not spamming a single unit (two Wraithlords maybe). I've got a fluffy list and I'm not using the supplement that makes them broken to do it.

I'm not using a single farseer. Only one wave serpent. I'm using the flyer that supposedly stinks... so yeah....

As for superheavies not being able to fire overwatch... I might have missed it somewhere but super heavy walkers follow the normal rules for walkers except for what their special rules allow... They cannot snap fire their battlecannon or melta blaster but they can snap fire their heavy stubbers IMO.

Dont see the list as beardy. It just happens to be very good vs Knights as nearly no unit is wasted. A knight + IG list is probably an auto win against my Dark Eldar.
MY escalation rulebook says no Overwatch for superheavy walkers, maybe knights have a special rule to this.

[Defenestratus]

Dont see the list as beardy. It just happens to be very good vs Knights as nearly no unit is wasted. A knight + IG list is probably an auto win to my Dark Eldar.
MY escalation rulebook says no Overwatch for superheavy walkers, maybe knights have a special rule to this.

Ahh ok I didn't know they had that rule... Good to know although my SHW's are crying a little inside. It was inconsequential to the game outcome.

[daboarder]

Courtesy of DAKKA


Wow not much to be summerized. Lots of filler images, lots of big print. Total of 6 pages of rules including the super heavy walker rules.

The knight detachment is separate from allies 1-3 can be taken, Do not score

Cannot ally with Chaos, Daemons, Crons, Orks or Nids.

Allies of convenience with Eldar and Grey Knights

Desperate allies with Dark Eldar and Tau



Imperial Knight Armies
These rules are for the primary detachment of knights:
Knights are scoring and one is the warlord.

Knightly ranks
"Players that want to include knights apparent or seneschals in their games must roll a dice for each of their knights errant or knights paladin (other then the warlord) at the same time as warlord traits and refer the knightly rank table below to see what the rank that knight has"
1: Knight apparent. Subtract 1 from the knights Ws and Bs. in addition a apparents ion shield confers a 5+ invulnerable save instead of the normal 4+
2-5: Knight. Standard rules
6: Seneschal. Add 1 to the knights Ws and Bs. In addition a knight seneschals ion shield confers a 3+ invulnerable save insteaf of the normal 4+

Warlord table:
The warlord is always a Seneschal
1. Master of the Hunt: All friendly knights in 12" add +1 to run or charge range
2. Fearsome Reputation: Enemy units within 12" of the warlord use the lowest leadership value
3. Master of the Joust: The Knight warlord rerolls failed to hit rolls in any assault phase in which he successfully charges into close combat
4. Master of the Field: The Warlord up to D3 friendly knights have outflank
5: Master of Siege: The warlord and all friendly knights add +1 to rolls they make on the building damage table
6: Indomitable: The warlord has "It will not die"

That's it. Not much to this book. Scary 3++ warlord

and remember kids, **** Chaos!

[Lukas The Trickster]

Back by popular demand, its the worlds smallest violin player

7748

[Herzlos]

Thanks for the batrep! :)

That sounds like a pretty scary Warlord traits table; particularly giving a knight "Will Not Die" or the lowest leadership value, that'll cause havoc with horde armies.


Thats was pretty much one of the hardest lists for a knight to face and still it doesnt sound too one-sided. Im not even sure if I can field that many heavy weapons needed to even scratch a knight...

I dont know if the knight is different but superheavies cant fire overwatch.

From what I followed of it (not being familiar with Eldar) I'd agree, and not what I'd have called tabled. It'd have no doubt tabled my 2K IG army though, and sounds like the Knight Army would have too, and would have won that game pretty easily if it'd been played more aggressively.

[Defenestratus]

Thanks for the batrep! :)

That sounds like a pretty scary Warlord traits table; particularly giving a knight "Will Not Die" or the lowest leadership value, that'll cause havoc with horde armies.



From what I followed of it (not being familiar with Eldar) I'd agree, and not what I'd have called tabled. It'd have no doubt tabled my 2K IG army though, and sounds like the Knight Army would have too, and would have won that game pretty easily if it'd been played more aggressively.

Not sure why my list was so difficult for the knight/SM list. If he had charged at me instead of sitting back then he would have wiped me off the board IMO. His Str8 and 9 blasts negate my high toughness on my WG models and the grav gun cents, had it not been due to night fight, would have killed my WK right off the bat.

[ChaosTacos]

Nothing my Lord of skulls can't handle :)




Courtesy of DAKKA



and remember kids, **** Chaos!

[Erik Setzer]

Nothing my Lord of skulls can't handle :)

Oh, but the Lord of Skulls would give the opposing player +1 to Seize Initiative, and an Escalation Warlord Traits chart if they want, and they get 1 VP per 3 HP they knock off, whereas you only get 1 VP if you've killed a Knight completely (or none at all if they're taken as Allies).

Isn't it awesome to have to deal with the limitations of Escalation when two months later they make those limitations completely moot?

[Charon]

Not sure why my list was so difficult for the knight/SM list. If he had charged at me instead of sitting back then he would have wiped me off the board IMO. His Str8 and 9 blasts negate my high toughness on my WG models and the grav gun cents, had it not been due to night fight, would have killed my WK right off the bat.

Mainly because you waste a minimum of shots and even if you lose units you still retain the ability to damage the knights.
The moment my DE lose one or two Ravager the army completely loses the ability to even scratch the Knights while your Wraith army still sits on plenty S10 weapons and the warp rift special rule.
I can think of a few Eldar lists which can deal with knights + allies or Knights only effectivly but I have a hard time getting my head around a DE army that can deal with the knights while not beeing helpless against the SM.

[Harley]

Mainly because you waste a minimum of shots and even if you lose units you still retain the ability to damage the knights.
The moment my DE lose one or two Ravager the army completely loses the ability to even scratch the Knights while your Wraith army still sits on plenty S10 weapons and the warp rift special rule.
I can think of a few Eldar lists which can deal with knights + allies or Knights only effectivly but I have a hard time getting my head around a DE army that can deal with the knights while not beeing helpless against the SM.

Take flyers instead of Ravagers. The Knights can't even barely shoot at them.

[Charon]

Take flyers instead of Ravagers. The Knights can't even barely shoot at them.

Was thinking of flyers too but then again the reserve roll is not too reliable, 12" movement on the knights side make it quite easy to dodge the 90° turns of the DE flyers AND they are way more expensive than the Ravagers. And while the Knights may be quite "defenseless" the allied SM (in this example) are not (armor 10 is even threatened by bolter fire) and a single aegis can ruin your day.
I probably can go around a knight only list with harpys (shocktroops and haywire) and hagashin (I5 and haywire) but I would have to full tailor a list which is a thing I hate doing... and even then its more of "ignore the flyers and sit on objectives. If they dont kill you, there is no way for them to win as they wont survive contesting". In an average game thats 30 Hullpoints to crack. Tough cookie to swallow.

[George Labour]

You hardly need to crack 30 hullpoints to win a game when there are objectives at stake. At that point it merely becomes a matter of carefully husbanding your forces, using manuevrability to be the one decicing who gets shot at where, and taking out one or two units along the way. At that point a pure knight army's relative lack of scoring units can be easily countered with last minute dashes for objectives in order to either deny or capture them.

My opponents that play Eldar do just that when they play against my tank heavy Imperial Guard army. They pick off a handful of my infantry to deny me an easy means to hold objetives, and just basically annoy me until turn three or four before they swoop in to get the win.

[Charon]

You hardly need to crack 30 hullpoints to win a game when there are objectives at stake. At that point it merely becomes a matter of carefully husbanding your forces, using manuevrability to be the one decicing who gets shot at where, and taking out one or two units along the way. At that point a pure knight army's relative lack of scoring units can be easily countered with last minute dashes for objectives in order to either deny or capture them.

My opponents that play Eldar do just that when they play against my tank heavy Imperial Guard army. They pick off a handful of my infantry to deny me an easy means to hold objetives, and just basically annoy me until turn three or four before they swoop in to get the win.

That works with eldar who got durable transports (sperpent), cheap jetbikes in the troops section and overall good saves (invul and cover). A Knight army does not have a "lack of scoring units" as all of them are scoring (thats 5 compared to a theoretical maximum of 6 on the other side). Everytime the Knights shoot you WILL lose firepower while the knights just stay on the same firepower untill they are fully destroyed. With 12" a turn they are not even as immobile as imperial tanks. The Imperials you mention are either in the open (thus can be affected by small arms fire - which a knight NEVER will be) or in low armor vehicles, likely to get destroyed very quick (unlike a knight). Yes THEN you can swoop in for a win as vehicles cant contest and he lacks troops.
Bad news: Knights CAN contest and are scoring. So that tactic gets you a draw at most (as you likely wont get first blood).

[George Labour]

It also has worked with Tau, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Tyrannids, and Eldar using the previous Codex. Oh and Dark Eldar, but that's been a while.

[Charon]

It also has worked with Tau, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Tyrannids, and Eldar using the previous Codex. Oh and Dark Eldar, but that's been a while.

You played a full knight army against Tau, Orks, CSM, Tyranids, Eldar and Dark Eldar? Wow. You seem to have either a lot of time or you are not beeing honest.
If you try to compare them AGAIN to an Tank heavy IG, you still dont know the difference between Leman Russ Tanks and a Knight.

[hisdudeness]

Anyone else notice that 5 Errants is 1850 on the dot?

[George Labour]

You played a full knight army against Tau, Orks, CSM, Tyranids, Eldar and Dark Eldar? Wow. You seem to have either a lot of time or you are not beeing honest.
If you try to compare them AGAIN to an Tank heavy IG, you still dont know the difference between Leman Russ Tanks and a Knight.

I said it was a tactic used to defeat my tank heavy armies which compare closely to a force of imperial knights. You then said it would only work with eldar to which I replied with the reply you quoted. No other claims were made.

As such I stand by my assertion that it is possible to win against a full imperial knight army by focusing on strategies beyond tabling them.

[Charon]

I said it was a tactic used to defeat my tank heavy armies which compare closely to a force of imperial knights.

And I tell you (for the third time now) they are not CLOSELY comparable to imperial knights. There are HUGE differeces in general game mechanics.

[George Labour]

You're obviously working off of different definitions for closely and huge than I am then.

Even were you correct and I am using the incorrect terminology the fact remains that playing to win based on the scenario and your army strengths instead of playing to win by face smashing your opponent off the table IS a potentailly viable means of defeating someone playing a pure Imperial Knights army. It's in fact wargaming 101.

If you believe I am incorrect in this assessment then I am afraid you'll need to provide more evidence than hysterical hyperbole that is laced with rules inaccuracies and unlikely scenarios.

[Charon]

You're obviously working off of different definitions for closely and huge than I am then.

Even were you correct and I am using the incorrect terminology the fact remains that playing to win based on the scenario and your army strengths instead of playing to win by face smashing your opponent off the table IS a potentailly viable means of defeating someone playing a pure Imperial Knights army. It's in fact wargaming 101.

If you believe I am incorrect in this assessment then I am afraid you'll need to provide more evidence than hysterical hyperbole that is laced with rules inaccuracies and unlikely scenarios.

Aaaaan again.....
The stratgegy you proposed IS viable vs tankheavy IG. It is NOT viable vs Knights.
Small arms fire CAN take out the few scoring units a Tankheavy IG has. Small arms fire does nothing at all to a Knight list (still you need to field them due to requirements)
You can outmaneuver a tankheavy IG without too much efford. Its close to impossible to outmaneuver a heavy walker (hard to stay away 19" from each knight as table space is limited).
It IS possible to snatch objectives in the last rounds of a agme (and hope for a quick ending) vs a tankheavy IG, as you can try to weather the storm with invulnerables, sheer numbers, cover or armor. You cant weather a knight due to stomp and D.
Shooting with heavy weapons will have additional effect on a tankheavy IG and soften them up. Such as shaken, stunned, weapon destroyed,... It will have no additional effect on a knight, they just lose hullpoints.
You can start securing a draw vs tankheavy imperial gurd by targeting the more quishy scoring units. Knights have no "squishy scoring units" as all of them are scoring.

Thats it in a nutshell. More mobile, all scoring, melee not advisable and slightly worse firepower.
Depending on the mission and number of objectives, it will get more or less difficult. Capture the relic will be PRETTY HARD, same as purge the alien. Any mission containing only (random) 3 Mission markers will be also quite hard as they require to kill a significant amount of knights (and most likely you wont get bonus for slay the warlord and first blood)

[George Labour]

Obviously I disagree. I also feel your use of loaded language to try and prop up your position is ,at best, silly and ill informed. Please see previous posts as to exactly why.

[ElectricPaladin]

I had a thought about what the mysterious hole on the top of the carapace is for.

Back banners.

They're a staple of Warhammer 40k, and much of the Imperial Knights artwork of yesteryear features the Knight formation leaders with enormous banners on their backs. Perhaps the hole is meant to be an attachment point for some kind of "this here is my Knight Seneschal and Warlord" upgrade kit that GW will release at some future point. What do you think?

[DarkLink]

Don't wait for GW for that one. Make your own.


Obviously I disagree.

He's right, there are some pretty significant differences between a tank heavy army and an army of superheavy walkers.




I also feel your use of loaded language to try and prop up your position is ,at best, silly and ill informed. Please see previous posts as to exactly why.

Dude? Chill out. People are allowed to disagree with you and hold their own opinions, and it doesn't make them a bad person.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Cannot ally with Chaos, Daemons, Crons, Orks or Nids.

Allies of convenience with Eldar and Grey Knights

Desperate allies with Dark Eldar and Tau

You know what missing? the Guys in the Inquisition...

[Deadlift]

Nobody expects the Inquisition (sorry had to)

[Lord-Boofhead]

Its ok some one would have!

[George Labour]

Don't wait for GW for that one. Make your own.



He's right, there are some pretty significant differences between a tank heavy army and an army of superheavy walkers.

Dude? Chill out. People are allowed to disagree with you and hold their own opinions, and it doesn't make them a bad person.

I was disagreeing with his constant insistence that Imperial knights are utterly unable to lose and unable to be effectively countered. Please go back and read what he's said across this and multiple other threads in that regards.

You will find a constant dismissal of any opinion counter to his own and overly dramatic statements that either show a severe lack of knowledge or a purposeful attempt to mislead people. If that does not meet the requirements of 'silly' then I'm not sure what does.

Now I would appreciate it if you would take your own advice and calm down.

[Charon]

I was disagreeing with his constant insistence that Imperial knights are utterly unable to lose and unable to be effectively countered.

Please quote me on this.

[Defenestratus]

While I enjoy a nice internet genital measuring contest any day of the week... this discussion is better suited to the tactics forum don't you think?

[DarkLink]

I just use the New Posts search anyways, but yeah, probably.


I was disagreeing with his constant insistence that Imperial knights are utterly unable to lose and unable to be effectively countered.

Never saw him say that.



Please go back and read what he's said across this and multiple other threads in that regards.

Nah, already read them.



You will find a constant dismissal of any opinion counter to his own and overly dramatic statements that either show a severe lack of knowledge or a purposeful attempt to mislead people. If that does not meet the requirements of 'silly' then I'm not sure what does.

I found someone with a "constant dismissal of any opinion counter to his own and overly dramatic statements that either show a severe lack of knowledge or a purposeful attempt to mislead people". It wasn't him.

To be clear, he has made perfectly normal statements of his opinion and views on the subject. You have been repeatedly rude, insulting, and dismissive, and this is like the third time I've called you on it.



Now I would appreciate it if you would take your own advice and calm down.

Do you remember when little kids would say stuff like "I'm rubber and you're glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you"? Yeah, it doesn't actually work like that. For one, you're being presumptuous to assume that I'd actually get worked up over something some random person on the internet says. I also happen to feel that it's incumbent upon people here to say 'hey, quit being an ***' when they see someone being an ***. Usually, if you just say 'chill out, dude', it works and everything is awesome. So, again, chill out. Just because someone disagrees with you, even if they strongly disagree with you, does not mean they deserve to be insulted.

[George Labour]

While I enjoy a nice internet genital measuring contest any day of the week... this discussion is better suited to the tactics forum don't you think?

Right you are.

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?42477-2000-points-Imperial-Knights

I'll need to get in a few games before I feel comfortable with offering a 'how to pwn them good' thread.

[ElectricPaladin]

I was right!

In the timeline, they mention a Knight that continues to fight Eldar even after its pilot is killed by an Eldar sniper. The Knight has had enough wearers that its Throne Mechanicum has become alive!

I'm totally going to make a freeblade who is now a free-willed giant robot... that would be awesome.

That'll have to be my second Knight, though. I already assembled my first with the aquilla on top and want to have a single House for most of my force, anyway, eventually...

[daboarder]

So Knights are basically Imperial Exarchs?

Is an Imperator the Avatar of the Machine god? I guess he is!

[Wolfshade]

So Knights are basically Imperial Exarchs?

Is an Imperator the Avatar of the Machine god? I guess he is!



Deus ex machina

[bfmusashi]

And this is how they start writing the Emperor's ascension upon his death back into the fluff.

[Psychosplodge]

While I enjoy a nice internet genital measuring contest any day of the week...

I think Denzark had a formula figured out for this, it might be in offtopic two...

[Mr Mystery]

I think Denzark had a formula figured out for this, it might be in offtopic two...

Somewhere in Corporate.

Mine was frankly Biblical in proportion.

[Lord-Boofhead]

So my question about the Inq Dex not being in the Knight Ally Matrix has gone through to the keeper?

[bfmusashi]

Somewhere in Corporate.

Mine was frankly Biblical in proportion.

centicubits?

[magickbk]

I've been away for a few months, and after digging through about 30 pages of posts, may I ask for a quick roundup of where the Knights fit in?

Are they Apoc, standard 40K, and what is Escalation and are they for that? I love the model, and hope to be able to get one to add to my Imperial 'mixed-bag' army.

I love the new release rate from GW, but it makes it difficult to keep up sometimes.

[Demonus]

I believe they fall under regular 40k now. Escalation allows you to add some "super heavy" walkers, vehicles, and giant mc to your army in a non apoc game. I believe it is 1 per army and the various ones allowed are listed in the Esc book. I dont own the book so please correct me if I am wrong, just going by what I ahve been told.

[Tyrendian]

I believe they fall under regular 40k now. Escalation allows you to add some "super heavy" walkers, vehicles, and giant mc to your army in a non apoc game. I believe it is 1 per army and the various ones allowed are listed in the Esc book. I dont own the book so please correct me if I am wrong, just going by what I ahve been told.

well, if you ask ForgeWorld, anything they produce is Escalation legal... but yeah Knights are regular 40k, and an army of their very own if you want to field 4-5 giant walkers and nothing else in a standard 1500-1850 game :)

[DarkLink]

And this is how they start writing the Emperor's ascension upon his death back into the fluff.

Only a matter of time before they release a superheavy version of the Golden Throne.

[quindia]

So my question about the Inq Dex not being in the Knight Ally Matrix has gone through to the keeper?

Inquisition IS in the knight ally matrix... They are Battle Brothers...

[bfmusashi]

Only a matter of time before they release a superheavy version of the Golden Throne.

Well, I didn't know I wanted that and now I do.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Inquisition IS in the knight ally matrix... They are Battle Brothers...

Not in my HARD COPY of the book it isn't.

[Lord-Boofhead]

On the FW Titan Variants rumour.


Reverse jointed legs - seen on the EPIC model.

Thats the OLD Epic Lancer the one without a lance that had 1 gun, the one they retconed into Slaaneshi Knights.

either rumour is bunk or They are giving us House Devine as well.

[Eberk]

On the FW Titan Variants rumour.



Thats the OLD Epic Lancer the one without a lance that had 1 gun, the one they retconed into Slaaneshi Knights.

either rumour is bunk or They are giving us House Devine as well.
OR... FW is doing that model for 30K ? And then it would be logical to have a model resembling the old Epic Lancer.


And the 'Lance', isn't that like a special weapon instead of the jousting lance of the horseback knights ?

[Tomgar]

The FW Knight Lancer rumour is obvious bunk since it mentioned the Lancer would fit into a fast attack slot in a primary detachment of knights. Knights don't use FOC so claiming they'll get a fast attack unit is utter nonsense. Honestly, there have been some utterly bizarre "rumours" (read: utter hokum) being given way too much air-time lately."New Vendetta," anyone?

[Mr Mystery]

OR... FW is doing that model for 30K ? And then it would be logical to have a model resembling the old Epic Lancer.


And the 'Lance', isn't that like a special weapon instead of the jousting lance of the horseback knights ?

Last set of Lancers had the Powerfield, Shocklance (effectively became Hammer of Wrath), Battlecannon (can't remember if two shots like the Paladin, think maybe only the one), and a massive rocket-a-like Lancey type thing, which boosted it's hand to hand prowess in the old Epic.

[DWest]

The FW Knight Lancer rumour is obvious bunk since it mentioned the Lancer would fit into a fast attack slot in a primary detachment of knights. Knights don't use FOC so claiming they'll get a fast attack unit is utter nonsense. Honestly, there have been some utterly bizarre "rumours" (read: utter hokum) being given way too much air-time lately."New Vendetta," anyone?
I believe it's been said elsewhere in this thread, but considering how the Heresy books work, the Lancer will be a Fast Attack choice for a Heresy army, and also available for the current-era Knights via dataslate, most likely non-scoring to represent it being a "fast" slot. When they get around to the Crusader/Castellian, they will most likely be slotted into Heavy Support for Heresy and non-scoring for modern Knights.

[quindia]

Not in my HARD COPY of the book it isn't.

Sorry... It is in the DIGITAL COPY. I didn't buy the book...

[LeeW]

I believe it's been said elsewhere in this thread, but considering how the Heresy books work, the Lancer will be a Fast Attack choice for a Heresy army, and also available for the current-era Knights via dataslate, most likely non-scoring to represent it being a "fast" slot. When they get around to the Crusader/Castellian, they will most likely be slotted into Heavy Support for Heresy and non-scoring for modern Knights.

im building my own Castellian knight, much more fun that way and will be doing the rules for it as well but will only be used in apoc games and if opponent allows me to

[LeeW]

I believe it's been said elsewhere in this thread, but considering how the Heresy books work, the Lancer will be a Fast Attack choice for a Heresy army, and also available for the current-era Knights via dataslate, most likely non-scoring to represent it being a "fast" slot. When they get around to the Crusader/Castellian, they will most likely be slotted into Heavy Support for Heresy and non-scoring for modern Knights.

im building my own Castellian knight, much more fun that way and will be doing the rules for it as well but will only be used in apoc games and if opponent allows me to

[Tomgar]

I believe it's been said elsewhere in this thread, but considering how the Heresy books work, the Lancer will be a Fast Attack choice for a Heresy army, and also available for the current-era Knights via dataslate, most likely non-scoring to represent it being a "fast" slot. When they get around to the Crusader/Castellian, they will most likely be slotted into Heavy Support for Heresy and non-scoring for modern Knights.

Hmm, that's actually a fair point. I'd hope any future Knights wouldn't be FW kits though. For one thing, I despise FW resin and for another, the plastic one's expensive enough! Also I reckon GW would make boatloads of cash with another plastic knight kit.

[Tomgar]

Woops, double post.

[Arkhan Land]

I dont think theyve even had time and enough kits to saturate the current market as is. altogether while I find these kits amazing and the rules for them not too absurdly terrible I'm commiting myself to not buying one first hand (already own a 3rd party model), the reason is cause im sure that once these other builds are released Ill get a way better idea of which models I want and probably will be able to score some of the first gens (paladins/errants) for cheap once everyone stops fielding as many in the face of a greater variety of knights.

Overall great release except for the fact that theres only two models available right now and it would seem if any of these rumors are true, that the first wave purchasers are investing themselves heavily in half of a release, otherwise Ide have to assume that GW is doing right by its customers and would never give them a taste of an army before releasing all its material in order to boost kits sales based on visual appeal alone. No GW would never do that...

[Lord-Boofhead]

Sorry... It is in the DIGITAL COPY. I didn't buy the book...

I was hoping they'd update the digital copy. Thanks. Was double checking that you had the Digital one and weren't hallucinating the entry.

[Bigred]

via StrykerSniper (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?391656-Knight-Crusader-Castellan-and-Lancer)


Ok guys, before the inquisitors come for me, I have some Intel from my spies in GW. I have gotten a report of new knight titan variants from Forgeworld. The 3 alternative knight variants mentioned in Codex:Imperial Knights are being produced as FW kits, with rules to be released in a new IA.

The crusader and Castellan will have the same mask, one with a targeter/bionic eye looking bit, a scope/range finder that attaches to the carapace, and alternative weapon arms that are both ranged weapons(which is nice, as my titan seems to get spanked when I try to run in and use my chainblade). My buddy wasn't sure which guns belonged to whom, but one looked like a laser lance of some sort, and was told it would be along the lines of a long range strength10 ap 1 las cannon, possibly with 2 shots, but DEFINITELY not D. There is also a gatling weapon, not sure if its projectile or las, but they look cool, and the Lancer has smaller armor plates on the legs, and a different head.

Also, to reflect the rare nature of the variants, the pilots are senechals with ws bs5, and a 3+ invul to reflect their prowess (super important since the lancer apparently has less armor, but is faster (fleet from what I'm told).

Take this rumor with as much salt as your like, and this is second hand for me too, but this guy usually isn't full of crap. Also, it seems that FW is doing some commo and banner stuff for the hole in the top of the carapace. I'm super jazzed about these, since as a former epic player, I was disappointed to see so few of the knight variants represented.

[Lexington]

Sounds great - excited to see 'em. The Knights are an absolutely amazing addition to the game and the model line. Can't wait to see more.

[ElectricPaladin]

Very interesting... I love it when my random guesses are verified!

It looks like I won't be able to make a lancer or a castellan/warden with my magnetized knight kit, but that's ok... some variety makes the "army" more attractive as a long-term project.

- - - Updated - - -

Very interesting... I love it when my random guesses are verified!

It looks like I won't be able to make a lancer or a castellan/warden with my magnetized knight kit, but that's ok... some variety makes the "army" more attractive as a long-term project.

[Kim Sandberg]

So, is this ''Full kits'' or is it ''uppgrade'' kits?

[DWest]

I'm guessing for the Crusader/Castellian, it'll be a plastic/resin hybrid, sold as a full kit. You'd get frames 1 and 3 of the current kit (in the order on the GW site) + the resin pieces. The Lancer sounds like it would be a completely scratch resin kit, based on the reversed legs and (presumably?) slimmer hull.

[Bigred]

Faeit says: (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/4D1omd7ceAs/imperial-knight-foc-changes-and-more.html)

Forgeworld on Imperial Knights and the Horus Heresy


We will be producing an update to the Ally Matrix for Horus Heresy with regards to Imperial Knights. At this point in time we can't provide any more information than this.

[Darren Richardson]

has anyone checked out FW new Bulletin Bulletin (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/FORGE_WORLD_BULLETIN_10.html)

they are showing another Knight varient

8089

[Mr Mystery]

That's the Lancer.

And it's considerably taller than a Paladin!

[The Emperor]

Yeah, I'd love to see how it stacks up next to the Wraithknight.

[Darren Richardson]

I should have made it clearer, on the photo from that game display their are Two Knights Both Armed Differently....

Which = two varients

[Houghten]

Uh, two things. Firstly, I don't care what GW's rules-writing department thinks, changing the weapons does not equal a different variant. Upgrading a Razorback's heavy bolter to a lascannon doesn't make it a different vehicle. Secondly, the two Knights in that picture are both Lancers and both armed with a lance and shield - they just have them on opposite arms.

[The Emperor]

There's a little more going on here than just a weapon change, though.

8102

[spagunk]

The taller Knight Lancer looks better than the shorty McShorterson standard kit.

Are they even based on the same kit? The lancer looks a LOT different than the standard knight.

[The Emperor]

If I remember right, reports say that the Knight Lancer is an entirely resin kit. It's not an upgrade to the plastic Knight.

[spagunk]

That makes sense. However I thought someone claimed to have had confirmation that FW was going to release additional knight variants for the plastic knight?

[Arkhan Land]

they probably still will, theres money to be made

[MajorWesJanson]

They talked about a fist upgrade for the plastic kit, and showed CAD for a megabolter arm and fire lance type arm, either upgrades for the plastic or weapon options for a future castellan/crusader loadout on a stocky warden body.

[Houghten]

There's a little more going on here than just a weapon change, thoughOh, I know for sure the Lancer is different from the Paladin/Errant. But Darren was saying there were two variants on the display board, when they were just mirrored.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Lancer looks great but I cant help thinking it should of been a plastic kit put out with the codex.

[Grey Mage]

There's a little more going on here than just a weapon change, though.

8102


The taller Knight Lancer looks better than the shorty McShorterson standard kit.

Are they even based on the same kit? The lancer looks a LOT different than the standard knight.

Whats going on there is heresy. The proper height for a night titan is 5.5" tall, or just a wee bit larger than a Dreadknight. Everyone knows this, its simple scaling up of the epic models, like the Wraithknight/Firegale.

[Sven Miller]

There is a very simple reason as to why the knight lancer would be taller than the current model we have. If you look at the model you see that the lancers arms and torso are roughly the same size as the current knight*. The main difference in height comes from the longer legs, if you remember, the lancer is meant to be a much faster knight, designed to cover large areas of ground at a greater rate than an ordinary knight, machines, unlike humans cant just go faster because they have practiced for a long time, such a change in speed would require engineering the legs differently, making the legs longer would be a start but that alone would leave the thing unstable on uneven ground, giving it inverted legs (as it appears they have done) would make long strides more viable at high speeds without losing much stability.

*(if you take into account the requirement of a larger power core and more mechanization such as stabilizers etc then the size difference in the torso really isnt that big.)+

The power core to make up for the higher rate of energy use at high speeds, and the use of the lance and shield.
the stabilizers would probably take the form of an internal ballast and pistons to act as counter-weight to each stride.

[Lord-Boofhead]

Whats going on there is heresy. The proper height for a night titan is 5.5" tall, or just a wee bit larger than a Dreadknight. Everyone knows this, its simple scaling up of the epic models, like the Wraithknight/Firegale.

I'll assume you never held both an Epic Knight and an Epic Dreadnought in your hands then?