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Pyredragon
02-12-2014, 09:46 AM
So I'd like to start by explaining the why and the purpose of this thread.

When 6th ed came around and GW began cranking out codex after codex in record time I decided that I would finally start Tyranids. I had always picked up the Mawloc at my FLG and daydreamed about rampaging Carnfie.

My best friend watched me go from eagerly anticipating the release and talking his ear off about it, to dreading the newest rumors and biting my nails at the general meh of everything filtering through, to finally being just flat out disappointed with the book.

Recently he posted a link on my FB, one which I'll share here.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?389415-My-take-on-trying-to-quot-fix-quot-the-6th-Edition-Tyranids-Codex
And told me that by and large he was ok with what he read, and trusted me to impliment these into my codex.

Generally I play with only him, his wife, and one other fellow, we live too far from our FLG for tournaments or pickup games. My best friend and his wife are both ok with this. The other guy? I'll probably just be playing the 'vanilla' dex or another army entirely against him.

Now, that's the why, on to the purpose. I've decided to ask you, the BoSL community for a little help in refining things. You guys are generally thoughtful, tactful, and very polite when it comes to discussions.

Please no posts of 'Book is fine' etc, that is your opinion. I am only looking for feedback on the changes I'm going to be implementing and not on how I should be sucking it up.

So without further ado, lets get started shall we? Largely I am only going to cover things I am actually considering implementing instead of the entire post on warseer.

Forces of the Hive Mind pg. 38
Insert new section: Hive Fleet Phenotypes From my Biology days in Uni... name in the works, basically Chapter Traits. These are meant to be slightly overpowered, as they will probably be balanced by some kind of points cost or drawback in later versions. All your Tyranid units, regardless of Detachment or from Dataslates, etc. share the same Hive Fleet Phenotype. No cherrypicking or powergaming here.

Hive Fleet Behemoth: Your Monstrous Creatures gain Feel No Pain (5+).
Hive Fleet Kraken: Increase the Mastery Level of all your Psykers by 1. In addition, Melee Bio-weapons purchased by your Psykers have the Force property added to them.
Hive Fleet Gorgon: Your units can never be wounded on a roll better than 3+ (meaning a roll of 1s or 2s always fail to wound), automatic wounds are not affected.
Hive Fleet Leviathan: Your Synapse Creatures have a "Lesser Warp Field" for a 5++ Invulnerable Save.

Personally, I prefer the thinking of this as 'Splinter of', as in my Fleet is a Splinter of Behemoth. I don't really see a reason to tack on a points cost, as this functions by and large like Space Marine chapter tactics, the all or nothing nature doesn't even allow abuse by self ally, which I am allowed to do.


Warlord Traits:
Nature's Bane - Change to affect any piece of non-ruin or building terrain.
Replace Heightened Senses with Divide to Conquer from BRB pg. 111.
Synaptic Lynchpin - No change.
Replace Mind Eater with Immovable Object from BRB pg. 111.
Digestive Denial - Just needs a name and description change, no change to game effect.
Adaptive Biology - Change to "Gains Feel No Pain (5+) or improves existing FNP by 1 step."

These actually make me want to roll on the chart, instead of defaulting to my usual favorite warlord.

Instinctive Behaviour Tables pg. 39
Simply change distribution to:
1 = Worst effect
2-5 = Middle effect
6 =Best effect

With this change the IB chart goes from bending you over the kitchen sink, to offering to buy you dinner first. The chance of a dramatic failure is still present and encourages synaptic web without going overboard on unnecessary bonuses I've seen suggested. I'm a fluff player by and large so I'm happy with this idea.

Hive Tyrant pg. 40
Hive Commandeer - Add "As long as you have at least one Hive Tyrant alive (on or off the table), you may re-roll any of your reserve rolls (failed or successful).
Indescribable Horror - Change to "Units within 12" of this model lose 'And They Shall Know No Fear'."
Old Adversary - Change to "This model and all friendly Tyranid units within this model's Synapse Range gain Hatred."

Now this one I feel needs some editing. Commander and Old Adversary are fine but Horror needs some work. Taking away ATSK is pretty powerful, but it doesn't affect say fearless mobs, I'm thinking instead, "Units within 12" of this model are subject to fear tests regardless of Fearless and ATSK." Thoughts?

Genestealers pg. 43 I'm thinking of making them more in line with Deathcult Assassins, so bear with me here...
Change Weapons and Biomorphs to Scything Talons and Rending Claws.

Add "Predatory Reflexes" - The unit has a 5++ Invulnerable Save, and ignore the initiative penalty for assaulting through difficult terrain. Name needs work, taken from DCA's Uncanny Reflexes.

Lictors pg. 44
Add Predatory Reflexes, see above.
Remove Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk).
Add Killing Strike Special Rule - Rending on 5+.

I've lumped these two together as being vanguard organism's they are like chocolate and peanut butter. I think Predatory Reflexes might be a bit much in granting essentially assault grenades, and I am considering dropping the 5++ to a 6++. Lictors having IB seems incredibly stupid to me considering their designed purpose, and I like the improved Rend.

Zoanthroapes pg. 45
Add to Psychic Brood - This unit generates an additional Warp Charge for each Zoanthroape beyond the first. So a unit with 2 Zoeys gets 3 Warp Charges to spend, and a full unit of 3 Zoeys gets 4, so the 2nd power they roll up won't be totally useless and there is more incentive to field more than just a single Zoey in a brood.

This one I like but admit it may be a bit too much.

Tervigon pg. 48 Yes I think they did need a slight nerfing, but they didn't have to swing the nerf bat so hard...
Add to Brood Progenitor - All Termagants units within 12" of the Tervigon may use it's Leadership score for any Leadership based checks.
Synaptic Backlash - Change to 2D6 hits.

Agree with this completely, and makes sense as the Tervigon is directing the will of it's spawn.

Haruspexes pg. 51
Remove from Rapacious Hunger "In the turn in which a Haruspex charges" I think it should work all the time, although it might not make that big of a difference depending on the enemy target.

The om nom nom machine becomes even more nommy, provided you're not trying to smash tanks and dreadies with it and eating infantry like it's supposed too. You should be scared of it getting to cc.

Ripper Organisms pg. 53
Add "There're too many, sir!" Special Rule to both Ripper and Sky-Slasher Swarms
"At the start of your turn, roll a D6 for each unit of Ripper and Sky-Slasher Swarms:
1-2: One of your Ripper Swarms in this unit may recover a single wound lost earlier in this battle.
3-4: One of your Ripper Swarms in this unit may recover up to two lost wounds lost earlier in this battle.
5-6: If this unit has less than the starting number of Ripper Swarms, add one back to this unit at full wounds. If not, treat as if you rolled 3-4.

I LOVE Rippers. These little things, they are terrible and frightening. Too bad their current rules make them just an overpriced speedbump. This however would turn them into a fearsome little tarpit, but maybe too fierce... This one might need playtesting.

Mawlocs pg. 54
Add to Terror From the Deep - You may choose to re-roll the scatter result, although you must keep the 2nd result, even if it is worse.
Add to Terror From the Deep - Models in a multi-level ruin above the lowest level that would have been affected instead take a dangerous terrain test, after which the unit must take a pinning test. So units hiding on higher levels of shaky ruins would probably be affected by the tremors caused by the emerging Mawloc at least.
Note - When your opponent places your Mawloc due to a Deep Strike Mishap result, he may not use it to attack your own units using the Terror From the Deep Special Rule, must be in a valid Deep Strike formation (so as to not trigger another Deep Strike Mishap). This will probably be FAQed soon.

Out of this, I'm really only considering the second addendum, rerolling the deepstrike when you already have a decent chance of doing a fair amount of damage seems a little overkill, and my friends call me the scatterdice surgeon...

Trygons pg. 55
Change Subterranean Assault to - If the Trygon (or Trygon Prime) deploys by Deep Strike, choose another Infantry or Beast unit also to be held in Reserve (including Independant Characters attached to the unit). Do not make Reserve Rolls for this unit. Instead, it arrives at the same time as the Trygon, deployed within 6" of the Trygon (or Trygon Prime). Any models that cannot be placed within range are lost. This unit may not move or charge the turn it arrives, but may shoot or Run. If, when a Trygon (or Trygon Prime) deploys via Deep Strike, it scatters on top of impassable terrain or another model (friend or foe), reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required to avoid the obstacle.

And suddenly the tunnel isn't a wasted rule, look how easy that was GW.

Hive Crones pg. 56
Change Toughness to 6, Armour Save to 3+.

Harpies pg. 57
Change Toughness to 6, Armour Save to 3+.

Currently I feel these two are nothing but skyfire bait, this fixes that and puts them on par with other MC's.

The Swarmlord pg. 59
Add Eternal Warrior Special Rule.

Change Warlord Trait to: You may roll 3 times on the Tyranids Warlord Traits table until you have 3 different results, then choose the one which will apply that game.

Add to Bone Sabres - All successful Invulnerable Saves taken against wounds caused by the Bone Sabres must be rerolled.

This returns the Swarmlord to terrifying glory. Instead of being saddled with lynchpin he's capable to fulfill the desired roll his army needs easily and makes invuln protected foes fear him again, as well as protecting him from the errant force-weapon or special rule.

Old One Eye pg. 60
Change Leadership to 9.
Added Rampage Special Rule.
Remove Berserk Rampage.
Add "Why won't it die?!" Special Rule - Old One Eye has Feel No Pain (5+), or improves FNP from another source by 1 step, to a maximum of 3+.
Add Note - If your detachment includes Old One Eye, you may take one Carnifex Brood unit as a Troops choice. In addition, Old One Eye may be joined to this Carnifex Brood unit at the start of the game, but may not leave it once joined.

My absolute favorite HQ choice, I love the big marauder's story and ability and this makes him all the more fearsome. I don't see a point to the leadership change though, so I'll probably keep his LD 8. He is only a carnifex, no matter how legendary.

Deathleaper pg. 61
Add "Legendary Reflexes" Special Rule - Deathleaper has a 3++ Invulnerable Save.

Add "Killing Strike" Special Rule - Deathleaper Rends on 5+.
Add Note - If your detachment includes Deathleaper, you may take one Lictor Brood Unit as a Troops Choice. In addition, Deathleaper may be joined to this Lictor Brood unit at the start of the game, but may not leave it once joined.

Speaking of legendary, this makes the Deathleaper respectable, and not just so much challenge bait. A solid simple improvement. Though his IB 'lurk' will be removed to match other Lictors.

Melee Weapons
Add Note - Tyranids armed with 2 pairs of Tyranid Melee Weapons combine the bonuses to Strength (if any), best AP and Special Rules as well as those listed under Type. Like in 5th, need to work on wording. So for example a model with Crushing Claws and Scything Talons would be +1 Strength, AP2, Melee, Armourbane, Unwieldy and Re-roll all 1s to hit in close combat, and a model with Scything Talons and Rending Claws would be Strength User, AP5, Melee, Rending and Re-roll all 1s to hit in close combat.

Add to Scything Talons - Re-roll all 1s to hit in close combat. Probably make a new keyword under Type, need a good name...

I didn't see a reason to lose either of these to begin with, thus their back.

Add to Bio-Electric Pulse Weapons - Haywire Type Because Trygons and Trygon Primes are costly in points, and also one of my favorite models.

With this little upgrade that Trygon will do a little more than just be a fire magnet the turn it arrives.

Add to Drool Cannon - 2 profiles, chosen when fired:
Template, S6, AP4, Assault 1, or
12", S6, AP4, Assault 2, Armourbane

This one I'm torn on, on the one hand it makes a lot of sense for a creature dedicated for dealing with flyers to have a primary attack to deal with them, but isn't that what the tentaclids are for?

Biomorph Upgrades
Change Acid Maw to "All close combat attacks by a model with this biomorph use the following profile: S6, AP2, Melee"

Change Toxic Miasma to "All enemy units treat the area within 6" of this model as both difficult and dangerous terrain."

Add to Wings - In addition, the model may reroll all failed Grounding Tests.

Hey look at that, a pack of three pyrovores isn't a joke all of a sudden. This may be the only one I consider out these three, venomthropes already do a fine job at what they do, and there should be a fair chance of making my FMC's faceplant.

Bio-artefacts of the Tyranids
Personally I think this entire part needs renaming and a major overhaul, but GW insists on Relics and stuff... so...

The Maw-Claws of Thyrax - Add "Counts as a pair of Rending Claws when determining Synergistic Weapon Combinations" and "All of your units with Synapse Range of the bearer are also granted this Preferred Enemy rule."

The Norn Crown - Add "This model's Feel no Pain or Invulnerable Saves are improved by 1 step, to a maximum of 3+."

The Miasma Cannon - Add "Counts as a Heavy Venom Cannon when determining Synergistic Weapon Combinations, and may be fired as a Heavy Venom Cannon in addition to the Miasmic weapon profiles."

The Ymgarl Factor - Change to "At the start of your turn... The bonus gained lasts until the beginning of your next turn."
Add "In addition, choose a unit of Genestealers in the same detachment with this bio-artefact. This unit (Genestealers and Broodlord only) gains the same ability."

The Reaper of Obliterax - Add "Counts as Lash Whip and Bonesword when determining Synergistic Weapon Combinations", Change to AP2, and Life Drain on 5+.

These were simply overcosted garbage in my opinion. Far too expensive for the too little they did. I'm not a fan of the suggestions for synergistic weapons from the warseer post, so the miasma cannon will remain the same, and mentions of synergistic will be ignored, the rest of the changes though are welcome.

This is really all I'm considering changing. I'm not going to mess with point cost as I don't want to get into the headache of trying to figure out the worth of units. This will be adjusted, changed, and tested, until there is a version everyone is happy with, but this is a good start. I will sincerely appreciate any input you guys have to offer.

michael79
02-12-2014, 01:36 PM
So, IMHO, there is room for additional balancing in the Tyranid Codex. Also, you and your friends should be able to play with whatever house rules you want, and in that case the opinions of the greater community don't really mean much. All that being said, what I see here is not balancing, since in every way shape and form you've increased the power or effectiveness of all units, without increasing point costs. I know you don't want to get into point costs, but most of these changes are just way WAY OP at book cost.

Basically, I like to use house rules to make games more fun and balanced, but I would never play anybody with these rules you've presented or use them myself. They don't seem balanced at all to me. What your friends think, is up to your friends.

Browntj007
02-12-2014, 01:37 PM
You might want to check out the an article on http://www.3plusplus.net/ by Abusepuppy, who basically is doing the same thing you are, and compare notes.

blueshift
02-12-2014, 02:01 PM
> You might want to check out the an article on http://www.3plusplus.net/ by Abusepuppy, who basically is doing the same thing you are, and compare notes.

thats exactly why there will never be a widely accepted third party rewrite...

Dalleron
02-12-2014, 02:03 PM
Whatever you do with this game amongst your friends is totally up to you. So go ahead, rewrite the whole thing. As long as it stays there.

Good luck trying to get Joe Schmoe to play against it. I doubt you'd find many takers.

Brother Horatio
02-12-2014, 02:05 PM
Synapse grants Eternal Warrior
Venomthropes are independent characters
Hormagaunts are 7 points, with the Beasts unit type
Genestealers are 16 points, with the Beasts unit type
Lictors have Stealth and Shrouded

Make those changes and I think the book is good to go.

EmperorMyric
02-12-2014, 02:06 PM
Im going to be keeping a close eye on this thread, any SHRED of a chance where i can play nids again like they are MEANT to be played even if its an unofficial dex is worth it in my opinion. Nids honestly made me very angry... Instead of being happy of the runours i too bit my nails.

So far the rules i see are pretty good, a few things can be toned down a little, also remember the re-rolls of 1 to hit in combat with scythings is nullified or makes pointless preferred enemy ;)

Robert Montjoy
02-12-2014, 02:11 PM
I also did one, with a focus on trying to encourage tactics that resemble the fluff better. I'm running a narrative campaign with it at my local store. I'm still tweaking and balancing mine and slowly working through the math on point values, then testing it and re-balancing based on how the test games go in the campaign. I harbor no illusions that anyone will adopt my ideas because it includes things like taking psychic powers away from troop choice tervigons and giving warriors a version of Brotherhood of Psykers instead, but if anyone wants to compare notes with what I'm doing and leave feedback then you're welcome to. Here, I give you the Wishlisted Tyranid Fluffdex of Gribbly Wrongness. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bi3iihUJmDXueR0-dl6exVOoo3HIMBJblf8nwJcpBy0/edit?usp=sharing)

iNcontroL
02-12-2014, 02:12 PM
I like it :)

confoo22
02-12-2014, 02:13 PM
Why are you guys even bringing up acceptance of others to play these changes? He said it's just him and a small group of friends so who cares if other people would accept his rules?

I like the idea of a chapter tactics style to tyranids. Don't know if I missed it, but if your group is cool you should make it similar in that you can ally with yourself if you're using two different varieties of tactics.

Big_jon
02-12-2014, 02:39 PM
I like it :)



Me too

silashand
02-12-2014, 04:29 PM
Obviously these would require a bit of playtesting, but overall I think they seem okay. I am concerned about going too far given the lack of point cost changes, but again, I think they seem well intended. I especially like the changes to Instinctive Behavior, the Hive Fleet Phenotypes and the revised Warlord Traits. For the Phenotypes you might consider adding a disadvantage to each since you aren't adjusting point costs and the whole army benefits. JMO though.

Frankly my group has considered doing this to all the codices for play amongst ourselves. Basically fixing the known issues with each book so that they are less egregious, e.g. reducing Serpent Shield to 36" range, changing dreadnoughts to all be the equivalent of the MC rules since it makes no sense to have two separate mechanisms, one of which almost no one takes, etc. I think your changes are a little more extensive for one specific army than we are interested in pursuing at this time, but if they seem fun then who knows.

For us it doesn't matter if the overall Internet community likes the idea or not. We are concerned only with what is fun for us and if someone external to us who will never play in our group doesn't like it, that's not our problem. We know the issues present in the current rules and there is a desire to address them to make the game fun for everyone who plays, not just those who are willing to buy three each of the new broken model.

Anyway, good luck on coming up with something that works for your group. I would be interested in reading about how these ideas pan out within your group and what, if any changes you had to make to balance them.


Synapse grants Eternal Warrior
Venomthropes are independent characters
Hormagaunts are 7 points, with the Beasts unit type
Genestealers are 16 points, with the Beasts unit type
Lictors have Stealth and Shrouded

Make those changes and I think the book is good to go.

For what it's worth I think the above would fix the most egregious problems with the book (though I would give the Pyrovore the Torrent rule because he's still garbage as it stands). As I noted above though, I do like the changes to Instinctive Behavior, the Hive Fleet Phenotypes and the revised Warlord Traits. I don't think any of those changes would imbalance the Bugs. To the contrary they might actually make them more fun to play.

Cheers, Gary

Trygons1100
02-12-2014, 04:52 PM
Hmm I like the list in general, but it does sound a little overkill. I would like to see a bunch of small tweaks but would be satisfied with a few notable changes such as:
~Synapse - Also grants Synapse creature's Ld for the purpose of tests, assuming the unit is in range.
~Warlord Traits - Re-work 1 and 5 to make them useful, not amazing but have some kind of effect (I don't know how many games I've played where they've literally been unusable...)
~Genestealers - Something to let them run then charge, or somehow charge more often than usual, etc. (inspired by the fiction, but obviously up their pts or lower attacks to compensate)
~Exocrine - Increase range to 36" to be able to duke it out with the other artillery in the galaxy
~Haruspex - Something to make it more than just a hungry Carnifex, like keep the Rapacious Hunger rule throughout phases or FnP. Make the Grasping Tongue an ID precision shot on 6, or recover a wound if it works or something.
~Pyrovore - Change Flamespurt to Torrent already, sheesh. Also, give access to biomorph list (make them a centerpiece).
~Ripper/Sky-Slashers - Make them competitive by lowering pts or have some kind of gimmick like scarabs.
~Scything talons - Bring back the re-roll 1's to hit. Or re-roll misses for first round. Or if the unit charged. Just SOME kind of re-roll.

Not as small a list as I thought, but a general smattering of ideas. There's tons of tiny things (Hive Guard BS4, Bio-Artifact for EW Synapse, Drool Cannon is Torrent, Hormagaunts getting 3+ Sv and access to Skyfire weapons... Sorry, Ward rage there for a second). Either way, I'm not hating on the codex and will definitely keep working on strategies with what's in there.

Interesting ideas so far though, keep the ball rolling!

Gleipnir
02-12-2014, 05:41 PM
All for using house rules for fun among friends.

Only thing I would say to this list though....

Less is more

Ezaviel
02-12-2014, 05:59 PM
Indescribable Horror - Change to "Units within 12" of this model lose 'And They Shall Know No Fear'."

Taking away ATSK is pretty powerful, but it doesn't affect say fearless mobs, I'm thinking instead, "Units within 12" of this model are subject to fear tests regardless of Fearless and ATSK." Thoughts?

I think as a general rule, special rules which completely remove other peoples special rules are a bit silly.
"Oh yeah, these guys are fearless/know no fear. Except Hive Tyrants. They are scared of those." That would make this like, the only thing in existence that a Marine is scared of. Pretty sure there are things that are just as scary.




Lictors pg. 44
Add Predatory Reflexes, see above.
Remove Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk).
Add Killing Strike Special Rule - Rending on 5+.[/I]

I've lumped these two together as being vanguard organism's they are like chocolate and peanut butter. I think Predatory Reflexes might be a bit much in granting essentially assault grenades, and I am considering dropping the 5++ to a 6++. Lictors having IB seems incredibly stupid to me considering their designed purpose, and I like the improved Rend.


I dunno if a Lictor should be completely immune, but they should certainly be highly resistant. Maybe re-roll failed IB tests? Maybe rolls of Seek Cover count as Stalk?

Pyredragon
02-12-2014, 06:01 PM
Thanks very much for the input so far guys! I won't be able to test this till Fri or Sat, our usual gameday but I will take some notes and let you guys know how it goes.

I am actually a bit leery about some of these. The bio-electric pulse and 5++ for stealers and lictors spring to mind. I don't feel that a points increase is largely required, yet again haven't tested, due to the large number of nerfs and point increases without any real net gain. As he stands the swarmlord does not feel worth 285pts for as little as he brings to the table.

To answer your question Confoo22 I am allowed to ally with myself, but it's a poor mans ally simply increasing my HQ x1, Troops x2, Elite x1 etc. It honestly doesn't feel fluffy to me that two fleets would work together as hive fleets have been known to attempt to consume each other resulting in epic struggles of dominance. Plus the limit of one phenotype per army period doesn't let me cherry pick, as often is the problem with allies.

So, while taking phenotype of behemoth and filling up on cheap mc's with phenotype leviathan as the ally and loading up on warriors would be effective, that is way too cheesey for my taste.

Again, thanks everyone for your input, and the links!

Anggul
02-12-2014, 06:23 PM
What are people's thoughts on making Tervigons able to spawn say... 20 Termagants? No more, no less. There would need to be a limit on how many of them could 'disembark' per turn as it would be pretty ridiculous for 20 of them to hop out of the sack in the space of a turn, maybe say you can spawn two separate broods of 10. Suggestions on these numbers are welcome, 20 just seems like a balanced, reasonable number that would fit in the sack.

It seems a lot better than the current state where you often get either far more than could possibly be in there or crap out first turn with only a few spawned. This would make it more reliable and regular, meaning the game can't be swayed massively by how long it takes you to roll a double as it is now.

Oh, and screw Synaptic Backlash. Makes no sense and just encourages people to keep them away from the Termagants they're meant to stick with in the fluff.

Robert Montjoy
02-12-2014, 07:28 PM
Fixing tervigons is something I've been going back and forth on with my own custom set. They just did too much in 5th, their FOC change mechanic felt too arbitrary, and they were too random with their spawning. I thought about making them continue spawning after doubles but not produce any gaunts on the turn they rolled the double, then I thought about letting them keep spawning but lose D3 wounds when doubles are rolled, and now I'm tinkering around with changing it entirely.

My current idea on that is splitting tervigons into a basic troop type and an HQ type, with only the HQ being able to spawn fleshborer gaunts from nothing and having synapse/psychic powers. The troop tervigons would basically be devouring and recycling the dead gaunts on the field into new gaunts, which shifts their role into much more of a support capacity and give the army something a little bit like the old "without number" rule. You wouldn't get an unpredictable number of "free" gaunts, but you'd be able to return the dead gaunts to the table a few at a time, including devourers or spinefists, etc. I'll have to run more tests with it, but it encourages the tyranid player to take a good balance between termagant units and tervigons without being forced to buy one unit to make the other available.

Aaron Schmidt
02-12-2014, 11:36 PM
Haruspexes pg. 51
Remove from Rapacious Hunger "In the turn in which a Haruspex charges" I think it should work all the time, although it might not make that big of a difference depending on the enemy target.

The om nom nom machine becomes even more nommy, provided you're not trying to smash tanks and dreadies with it and eating infantry like it's supposed too. You should be scared of it getting to cc.

Melee Weapons
Add Note - Tyranids armed with 2 pairs of Tyranid Melee Weapons combine the bonuses to Strength (if any), best AP and Special Rules as well as those listed under Type. Like in 5th, need to work on wording. So for example a model with Crushing Claws and Scything Talons would be +1 Strength, AP2, Melee, Armourbane, Unwieldy and Re-roll all 1s to hit in close combat, and a model with Scything Talons and Rending Claws would be Strength User, AP5, Melee, Rending and Re-roll all 1s to hit in close combat.

Add to Scything Talons - Re-roll all 1s to hit in close combat. Probably make a new keyword under Type, need a good name...

I didn't see a reason to lose either of these to begin with, thus their back.

Add to Bio-Electric Pulse Weapons - Haywire Type Because Trygons and Trygon Primes are costly in points, and also one of my favorite models.

With this little upgrade that Trygon will do a little more than just be a fire magnet the turn it arrives.

Add to Drool Cannon - 2 profiles, chosen when fired:
Template, S6, AP4, Assault 1, or
12", S6, AP4, Assault 2, Armourbane

This one I'm torn on, on the one hand it makes a lot of sense for a creature dedicated for dealing with flyers to have a primary attack to deal with them, but isn't that what the tentaclids are for?

Biomorph Upgrades
Change Acid Maw to "All close combat attacks by a model with this biomorph use the following profile: S6, AP2, Melee"

Change Toxic Miasma to "All enemy units treat the area within 6" of this model as both difficult and dangerous terrain."

Add to Wings - In addition, the model may reroll all failed Grounding Tests.

Hey look at that, a pack of three pyrovores isn't a joke all of a sudden. This may be the only one I consider out these three, venomthropes already do a fine job at what they do, and there should be a fair chance of making my FMC's faceplant.

Bio-artefacts of the Tyranids
Personally I think this entire part needs renaming and a major overhaul, but GW insists on Relics and stuff... so...

The Maw-Claws of Thyrax - Add "Counts as a pair of Rending Claws when determining Synergistic Weapon Combinations" and "All of your units with Synapse Range of the bearer are also granted this Preferred Enemy rule."

The Norn Crown - Add "This model's Feel no Pain or Invulnerable Saves are improved by 1 step, to a maximum of 3+."

The Miasma Cannon - Add "Counts as a Heavy Venom Cannon when determining Synergistic Weapon Combinations, and may be fired as a Heavy Venom Cannon in addition to the Miasmic weapon profiles."

The Ymgarl Factor - Change to "At the start of your turn... The bonus gained lasts until the beginning of your next turn."
Add "In addition, choose a unit of Genestealers in the same detachment with this bio-artefact. This unit (Genestealers and Broodlord only) gains the same ability."

The Reaper of Obliterax - Add "Counts as Lash Whip and Bonesword when determining Synergistic Weapon Combinations", Change to AP2, and Life Drain on 5+.

These were simply overcosted garbage in my opinion.
- Haruspex needs AT LEAST WS4 A4 and a rule to move 12" per turn. WS3 A3 and 6" move is actually funny because of how bad it is.
- Re-rolls to hit for scything talons should be "Flurry" as in flurry of blows.
- Giving Haywire to Trygons makes their shooting incredibly deadly for vehicles.
- Drool Cannon could be S6 AP4 Fleshbane, Armorbane - reasoning is that most things you hit with the Drool will either be some troops (so woundng on 2s anyway) or a vehicle (in which case Fleshbane doesn't matter) and since acid melts things...
- Acid Maw was fine in the old book, literal waste of space in the new one. Either GW devs do not know anything about bite strength or they're just morons. I would do S+1 for bite strength (and AP2), similar to crushing claws sans armorbane and unwieldy. Smaller surface area=more PSI=chomp. PS. Pyrovores still aren't good. Now they're just decent. Still too slow.
- Norn Crown needs to go. All of the others are fine if they also all drop 10 points.

The new book... good god.

daboarder
02-12-2014, 11:58 PM
why the haruspex wasn't mad a beast MC I'll never understand, I mean then it would have had a very unique and solid role in the book and been a good comparison to maulerfiends.

Pyredragon
02-13-2014, 07:06 AM
Hey guys, had a few thoughts last night while I was at work.

First, Ezaviel, after considering it yeah, making 'indescribable horror' nullify two special rules is silly. I guess it'll just remain unchanged as honestly I can't think of a way to improve on it that isn't broken. Secondly, with a lictors LD yes it might be a bit much to completely remove their IB, it does give them a risk/reward factor for scouting them ahead out of synapse and they are unlikely to have a brainfart.

The Deathleaper though, totally doesn't fit to have it, so I'm still stripping it from him.

I've been thinking on the Trygons Bio Electric pulse. Just slapping haywire on it essentially means all it has to do is look at a tank at a funny, and while I like the idea that it's a deepstriking antitank a Trygons pretty scary antitank in it's own right.

Instead I'm thinking keep it's original statline S5 AP5 but add the following, 'Overload: On a roll of 6 to hit add the Haywire effect'. This forces a choice between frying troops, or going for the gamble of shaving off hullpoints instead of a guaranteed dead tank when a trygon prime sneezes at it.

Schmidt and Daboarder, thanks for the idea for improving the Haruspex, this one though I bet will get nerfed back to a slow and steady 6 a turn movement. I am going to increase the big guys points by 20. 5pts for each stat adjustment and 10 for the speed alone to justify this.

Also I like the idea of calling scything talons special roll 'Flurry', makes sense and a conjures cinematic images. I'm not entirely sure the Drool cannon needs Fleshbane at S6, Armorbane however makes sense. I am liking the idea of the cannon having two profiles, one for skyfire and one for ground targets. May need a point adjustment for this ontop of improving it's T and SV.

Anggul and Robert, while personally I like the random nature of how the tervigon works I did think of a way that might fix it for you two. When the tervigon is purchased you purchase gant larva at 4pts a piece to, lets say for giggles a max of 30. When the tervigon spawns it must produce a max of 10 a turn, side effects still apply, but the tervigon may sacrifice a wound to spawn an additional 10 that turn until it's larva is exhausted.

Anyway, that's all for now, thanks again for the help with this guys.

Pyredragon
02-16-2014, 04:34 PM
Hey guys checking in after my first game with the codex testing some of these house rules. I am happy to report that it was a great success.

The only time my opponent seemed a little iffy on them was concerning Old One Eyes special rule of "Why won't it die!?" However after he proceeded to focus fire him down, he conceded that it wasn't overpowered and did give him some nice survivability.

Making the Tyrgons Bio Electric pulse apply the haywire effect on a 6 to hit was met as a fair trade as well. Also the Trygon's new tunnel was considered a strong tactic and actually worked out well to deliver him and a unit of devilgaunts behind enemy lines.

The Splinter fleet traits were considered awesome and it was deemed they didn't need a points cost.

The Haruspex got a 10pt increase and recieved +1 attack, Rapacious Hunger effecting every turn, Grasping tongue regen a wound on an unsaved wound, and a +3 to his run. This was considered fair and certianly made him much more effective.

Now next week I'll do some further testing with genestealers and lictors to see how these vanguard units fare with their update. Though the biggest success? Even our usual stickler for the rules accepted these and is willing to face them.

All in all I am happy bug player again.

Robert Montjoy
02-17-2014, 09:23 AM
Your haywire effect is very close to what I came up with for my set. I created a special Voltage rule that causes haywire on a 6 to penetrate but also forces re-rolls of successful invulnerable saves. I took it a step further, and for a points increase I brought back the old 2nd edition Voltage field, which I'm treating as a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting attacks that adds the voltage rule to the model's close combat attacks. The trygon's special rule forces it to choose... it starts its turn with voltage field, but it loses it until the start of its next turn if it uses bioelectric pulse. My reasoning for this is to make it follow the old Epic fluff a bit better, and also the 2nd edition fluff for Voltage field which I made an upgrade available to a couple other units. I gave the voltage special rule to paired boneswords, a modified version of the hive guard's new shock weapon which can now be used in an anti-air capacity, an expensive upgrade for genestealers, and of course for the Swarmlord's bone sabres which have a +1 to voltage.