Help for "Starfort" battle rules.

[World Of Pain]

Hi everybody!

We (Resedaprime game crew) are planing for our next major WH40 battle. Last battle we did was "Man the Guns" from wich you can find our rules and battlereport here at BOLS. For our next battle we go to SPACE! We will use the "Scour the Starfort" idea and rules as base for our mission (BRB p. 350-351) but we want to make some of our own rules. Here is the basic idea what we have come up and we want to ask if you have experience from doing this kind of space battles or some other ideas for us to add! We will write complete rules and post battlereports from this after playtesting.


"The Great Void"
This battle takes place in airless enviroment. Models that breath should (if possible) try to wear their helmets. =) Bike units, cavalry units and beasts are not available for armies in this mission.

Infantry units are unable to leave Starfort terrain. Models with jump- or jetpacks, instant teleport capability or jetbikes are able to move in space but they do so as moving on dificult terrain (2d6 pick highes for 6" movement units and 3d6 use two highest for 12" movement units and 4d6 use three highest for 18" movement units. They only take Dangerous Terrain checks if they take-off or land on that kind of terrain. Models with wings are considered as reqular infantry/MC etc. You can´t use wings in space.

You can only take vehicles with: Skimmer, Walker or Flyer types in this mission. Tanks or other vehicle types are not available for armies in this mission. Skimmer and Flyer (Hover mode) vehicles may only land on specific "Landing Platforms" at the Starfort. They may NOT land or end their movemet on other parts of the Starfort.

Infantry and walkers can try to move between two Starfort terrain pieces with empty space between them but each model must take a separate dificult terrain check and must make its jump to the other side. If jump is too short they are instantly removed from play as they drift into the endless void of space (no coming back for Necrons or Anwal Thawn etc).

"Cold and airless Space"
Weapons with "Gets Hot" rule don´t use it in this mission. Flamer and Melta weapons relay on oxygen or superheated air so they do not work in this mission. Plasma and Las weapons are ideal in space battle. Their range is increased by 6". Ordinace and Missile weapons use special rocket fuels that allow them to work in space, for extra weight their range is decreased by 6". Barrage weapons do not work in this mission.

"Hard Vacuum"
All to wound and armour penetration rolls of 6 to any breathing models or vehicles with live crew are considered AP2. Models that don´t breath are immune. (Necrons, daemons, Dreadnought Walkers or possessed vehicles)

"The Long Walk"
If a blast marker touches a model within 2" of the edge of the Starfort, in addition to any other damage caused take a strenght test for that model. If test is failed it has been thrown from the station to drift into space. Models with jump- or jetpacks, instant teleport capability or jetbikes can use their special equipment/ability to return to their original position (as a free, out of initiative/turn action) but they must take a Dangerous Terrain check if they return to that kind of terrain (that would normaly cause Dangerous Terrain test for them). Vehicles without Strength characteristic are immune. For characters you can use "Look out Sir!" rule to save them - just before strenght check make "Look out Sir!" roll and if successfull you can nominate another closest model from the same unit that is NOT taking strenght check at this moment. We asume that this model jumps to save his Lord/Lady risking his own life.

Vehicle that suffers Immobilized result must at the begining of its next movement phase roll a scatter dice. If "Hit" is rolled vehicle stays at that location. If arrow is rolled vehicle drifts to that direction 6" and 6" more every turn after that. Place an arrow marker to point out drift direction. Vehicle does not change its faceing. Walkers are immune.

What do you think?

[Ian Mulcahy]

This looks like a lot of fun. My only comment would be on the banning of melta weapons. If it's for balance, that's one thing. But fluff indicates that melta weapons work in space. The caestus assault ram has a magna-melta that it uses to soften starship hulls so it can ram through them. So meltas should be able to function even without air.

[World Of Pain]

This looks like a lot of fun. My only comment would be on the banning of melta weapons. If it's for balance, that's one thing. But fluff indicates that melta weapons work in space. The caestus assault ram has a magna-melta that it uses to soften starship hulls so it can ram through them. So meltas should be able to function even without air.

Exelent poin! I just checked that and you are absolutely right about melta. In BRB it says "When fired, the super-heating of the air produces a distinctive and sinister hiss...". I just missunderstod this as melta weapon requiring air or oxygen to work but it´s just refearing to its sound in normal enviroment. So melta weapons are back in.

I just finished building table and it looks pretty nice with stars (small shiny glitter gems) glimmering and all that "space crap" floating around (I used extra floating bases to make some barrels and boxes to "float" around in space). I need to go and buy some black fabric to cove table top to make deep dark space look more like it should. Hope to get some pictures out next week.

[Haighus]

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Promethium#.UveUtnYbghY

Imperial flamers can actually burn in space. I assume the flamers include their own oxygen supply, and once the promethium is ignited it will carry on burning until it is exhausted. However, it would make sense to me if the flames dissipated quicker as a result, so -1 to Strength or something similar perhaps?

[World Of Pain]

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Promethium#.UveUtnYbghY

Imperial flamers can actually burn in space. I assume the flamers include their own oxygen supply, and once the promethium is ignited it will carry on burning until it is exhausted. However, it would make sense to me if the flames dissipated quicker as a result, so -1 to Strength or something similar perhaps?

Ok. Any idea how flamer would behave in space? Would it still work in 0 gravity as an template weapon or something else? This is actually really interesting to create whole new set-up for WH40 battles.

[ElectricPaladin]

"The Great Void"
This battle takes place in airless enviroment. Models that breath should (if possible) try to wear their helmets. =) Bike units, cavalry units and beasts are not available for armies in this mission.


I'm glad you're not actually penalizing folks who modeled their dudes without helmets... I hate when that happens. Not everyone has the cash to go on eBay and replace a bunch of models for a single game.



Infantry units are unable to leave Starfort terrain. Models with jump- or jetpacks, instant teleport capability or jetbikes are able to move in space but they do so as moving on dificult terrain (2d6 pick highes for 6" movement units and 3d6 use two highest for 12" movement units and 4d6 use three highest for 18" movement units. They only take Dangerous Terrain checks if they take-off or land on that kind of terrain. Models with wings are considered as reqular infantry/MC etc. You can´t use wings in space.


I'm still following you so far. I'm not sure how I feel about expanding numbers of dice for models with different movement rates. I see what you're going for, but I worry that it will be needlessly complicated and involve a lot of players starting to move a model, then scratching their head and having to reach for the scenario document again and again and again. It might not seem like much, but it can add up and really cause a game to drag.



You can only take vehicles with: Skimmer, Walker or Flyer types in this mission. Tanks or other vehicle types are not available for armies in this mission. Skimmer and Flyer (Hover mode) vehicles may only land on specific "Landing Platforms" at the Starfort. They may NOT land or end their movemet on other parts of the Starfort.


I think that forcing skimmers to begin and end their movement on landing platforms is a bit ridiculous. I mean, my impression of 40k has always been that movement is constant. It only seems segmented because of the turn structure: in other words, my land raider isn't moving forward in 15' (or whatever it works out to in real world measurements) jumps, it's advancing steadily. We just segment it to make the game make sense as an I-go-you-go tabletop game.

So the beginning and ending their movement on landing pads thing makes it seem like skimmers are actually only jumping around, rather than moving smoothly, which is kind of weird.



Infantry and walkers can try to move between two Starfort terrain pieces with empty space between them but each model must take a separate dificult terrain check and must make its jump to the other side. If jump is too short they are instantly removed from play as they drift into the endless void of space (no coming back for Necrons or Anwal Thawn etc).


Cool



"Cold and airless Space"
Weapons with "Gets Hot" rule don´t use it in this mission. Flamer and Melta weapons relay on oxygen or superheated air so they do not work in this mission. Plasma and Las weapons are ideal in space battle. Their range is increased by 6". Ordinace and Missile weapons use special rocket fuels that allow them to work in space, for extra weight their range is decreased by 6". Barrage weapons do not work in this mission.


I'd argue that melta weapons are much more "heat rays" than "superheated air throwers," and should work in space.



"Hard Vacuum"
All to wound and armour penetration rolls of 6 to any breathing models or vehicles with live crew are considered AP2. Models that don´t breath are immune. (Necrons, daemons, Dreadnought Walkers or possessed vehicles)


Works for me.



"The Long Walk"
If a blast marker touches a model within 2" of the edge of the Starfort, in addition to any other damage caused take a strenght test for that model. If test is failed it has been thrown from the station to drift into space. Models with jump- or jetpacks, instant teleport capability or jetbikes can use their special equipment/ability to return to their original position (as a free, out of initiative/turn action) but they must take a Dangerous Terrain check if they return to that kind of terrain (that would normaly cause Dangerous Terrain test for them). Vehicles without Strength characteristic are immune. For characters you can use "Look out Sir!" rule to save them - just before strenght check make "Look out Sir!" roll and if successfull you can nominate another closest model from the same unit that is NOT taking strenght check at this moment. We asume that this model jumps to save his Lord/Lady risking his own life.


Why just the edge? Models can be thrown "up" just as easily. When you're in space, everything is an edge.



Vehicle that suffers Immobilized result must at the begining of its next movement phase roll a scatter dice. If "Hit" is rolled vehicle stays at that location. If arrow is rolled vehicle drifts to that direction 6" and 6" more every turn after that. Place an arrow marker to point out drift direction. Vehicle does not change its faceing. Walkers are immune.


Sure, since they're all skimmers anyway, while walkers - like infantry - are presumably engaging some kind of magnetic locks on their feet.

[World Of Pain]

Electric Paladin: Thanx for your great feed back! Some parts require more explanation.

For jump infantry and jetbikes we needed to great new set of Dificult Terrain checks because they don´t take those normaly. It would be too harsh to force them to move just 1" - 6" per turn, now they are able to move 2" - 12" per turn. That 4d6 is there because I was not sure if there is some characters or units that move up to 18".

Skimmers and flyers don´t need to start and end their movement on landing platforms. They can still fly or skimm around the board. They just can´t end their movement on catwalks, floating space junk, or other parts of the Starfort structure (exept those specific landing platforms). Its considered way too dangerous in total vacuum and 0 gravity. So most of the 6´ x 4´ board is considered to be just empty space where skimmers and flyers may move freely (and most infantry and other units cant move at all!).

Melta weapons are back! We are considering re-issuing flamer weapons too because of the nature of promethium. We are just unsure how flame template would work in 0 gravity.

Once again - thanx! Exelent stuff. This is going to be really fun battle ground.

Your point about "Long Walk" rule is exelent! There is no reason why model could not drift up or down - not just from the edge of terrain piece. And this change makes the use of this rule more easy.

[Aaron LeClair]

I think the -1s is a good idea and lack of gravity may make it fire a bit further, so maybe give flamers torrent?

[Sizzly]

I like the concept, sir. But a couple of thoughts:

1. There are lots of rules here. If you're playing with your usual crew who're cool with this than grand. If you're bringing in more casual players then you're looking at folks who might not follow it all.

2. Lots of restrictions and changes to core rules (immobilized skimmers, skimmers having restricted movement, lots of weapons being unavailable, FOC restrictions, etc). I'd suggest that restrictions are usually bad. It is 40000 years in the future and space is ubiquitous. But more importantly, changing core rules is problematic unless the folks you're playing with have time to soak up the mechanics changes. Coupled with #1 this could be problematic.

I adore the idea. Really I do. I'd just tone down the number and depth of the special rules.

[Archon Charybdis]

Love the idea, though it's been a long time since I took physics, I'd think the lack of convection cooling would make make a plasma gun more likely to overheat.

[John Bower]

Only 1 thing, 'Gets Hot' weapons would still behave the same, as vacuum is far from actually cold, it's a super insulator. Yes technically it's cold in space, but put any heat there it won't dissipate, it will feed back into anything. For example a human w/out a suit will instantly boil their blood, just before their inside pressure causes them to explode rather horrifically. So I wouldn't change the rules for 'gets hot'.

[World Of Pain]

Thanx everybody!

We just had our first test play and it was FUN! I can honestly say that this mission with that "Man the Guns" mission has brought the fun back to WH40K for me. Games are more narative, more balanced and more friendly but there is still that good old competition going on.

We will make some of these changes. We will remove "no gets hot" rule and we drop some of the special rules off or make them little bit more "simple". Flamer weapons will stay away ´cause we think that their use in 3D enviroment and 0 gravity would make them way too dificult to use.

We will do few test plays more and then we will post complet rules, mission and battle reports.

-Resedaprime crew-

[Lost Vyper]

And by the way, Eldar WON :), but the mission was AWESOME and the table too...

[ElectricPaladin]

Can we get some pics of this awesome table? Even reading the rules makes me want to get a look at it.

[Lost Vyper]

Here´s couple, sorry about the crappy resolution :(

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