read another white scars post and loved it figured id throw out my list

[Toddrick]

So I just finished reading a post where a fellow white scars player posted an absolutely amazing list that I loved reading and inspired me to throw out the 2000 point list I've currently been playing around with and see if anyone had any good opinions or ideas on where else I could shift the list. so Ill go ahead and post the list and go into my thought process after.

HQ
Khan on bike

Command sqd with 3 grav guns and apothecary

TROOP
8 bikes with 2 grav guns and a heavy bolter attack bike

8 bikes with 2 grave rifles and a heavy bolter attack bike

5 bikes with 2 melta guns

5 bikes with 2 melta guns

5 bikes with 2 grav rifles

8 cw/bp scouts

FAST ATTACK

storm talon with the skyhammer missiles

land speeder squadron with 2 typhoon missile launcher land speeders

6 assault marines with a power maul and 2 flamers

ELITE

5 legion of the damned with melta/MM

5 legion of the damned with melta/MM


so first things first this list is meant to be good while staying true to fluff, I love the dirt cheap scout sqd as it gives me a ton of very cheap flexibility from blocking opponent scouting flanking for late game obj grab abilities, to protecting my own, or just a very cheap unit to run around harassing people and forcing you to deal with my 90 point scoring unit that frees up the bikes to just shoot.

the assault marines are literally just there because I absolutely love the models they fill a role with the flamers and even though in a more competitive environment they be swapped out for another flyer, but even as is i feel this list would still do alright.

and the second legion of the damned squad is literally the first thing that I would drop if i was going to tweak anything because while I love their models they are more or less my point sink and there for redundancy since i usually go pretty aggressive with their deep strike. I'm debating shifting the points from the second sqd to another full bike sqd since I have been playing with them lately and loving the added flexibility of an all bolter and heavy bolter combat sqd that is there to either harass light infantry, add another scoring presence and are the first ground shooting i use to try and ground FMCs.

but please feel free to comment, judge and offer advice, my only caveat is that while this is a 2000 point list i do not wish to run dual force org even though im tempted cause i like the idea of a tac sqd in a rhino.

[mr_draken]

I like it, its similar to what I'm doing but different in its own way as well. For instance, your command squad is the way id kit it if i took my master of the forge instead of chappy.

The legion squads are so much fun, though i run mine with plasma, melta would be good as well, ignoring cover for tanks or monstrous creatures would be a big bonus there! I also think that with legion, you always play them aggressively or its just not worth having them.

i toyed with assault marines, but as i wanted multiple speeder squads as well as my talon if i was to include them, they would be vanguard vets to free up the fast attack slot.

With your scouts, id try and find the points for sniper rifles and cloaks, while the ccw/bp scouts are good, i tend to only run them in groups of 5 in a storm for the bonus movement and to target a minor unit i think they can handle. (melta bomb on the sarg helps for backfield tanks as well)

how do you find the 5 man bike squads? i usually run 2 full squads (one melta with melta attack bike, one plasma with HB bike) that way i can combat squad them if i so wish, or run them larger. ATM i'm messing with more squads, at 5 bikes a go for more special weapons and more spread throughout the force.

Duel force orgs are a no for the tourney i'm looking to attend, so I cannot run them, IF i could, i think id ditch out the legion, and run a 3rd squad of speeders in my list. (speeders with missiles are so much bang for your buck!)

[Toddrick]

Yeah man! you're the man who's list I loved, granted you have more punchy flavor to yours.

On the scouts I have just never been impressed with the performance of the sniper scouts which is sad cause I kind of like their models, by having the bare bones ccw scouts I just infiltrate and scout move them to get them where I want them to harass and distract my opponent, granted I did originally have them at a full 10 man so they could combat sqd but needed the points for the bigger bike sqds. So now they are 88 points of hanging around midfield and tying up units or assaulting lighter vehicles or backfield camper sqds, and do exactly that haha, granted I do still own storms and might give that route a go cause I do think that it might be a little bit stronger of a tactic.

Yeah absolutely love the legion of the damned units since they are there to pop transports and be able to laugh off tau riptide interceptor fire for the most part, which i why i went with the melta since the plasma role is filled by the grav guns.

almost totally agree with the assault marines, and have thought about/ will probably test out using them as vanguard vets simply because i would much rather have more speeders or another flyer in my fast attack slots as well but the ability to have the flamers is why they are currently there granted they would be swapped out for a more competitive level game, bah if only I could have more fast slots with out getting into the whole ally with yourself nonsense.

Now to your actual question about the 5 man sqds. I have found them to be better for me than having the attack bike with a not full bike sqd simply because that is a it of a point investment for a single melta shot, granted if I had the points to spare I would still do it. I've found that having a few more cheaper 5 man sqds offer more flexibility to the army and usually force your opponent to have to over kill a cheaper sqd which takes pressure off of others and with them being cheaper and allowing you to have an extra sqd or 2 give you the ability to use them as additional screening/ sacrificial units where when you have the fewer sqds its harder to do that without hindering your damage output, so if you have time before your event id highly recommend giving it some test time and see how you like it. I just like to tell myself that 2 melta attack bikes are 15 points shy of a 5 man dual melta bike sqd with has similar damage out put but allows me to shoot a separate target and adds an extra target my opponent has to account for.

Also please throw out some feedback and what not on how you do in your event sir! or even if you play around with the smaller squads, I love reading up on how different scars list perform.

[mr_draken]

I def agree with you on the whole attack bike thing, im not sold they are worth it with how expensive they are now. I may try and get a hold of another bike squad, ditch the melta bombs and go for a 6th troop choice instead of those 2. but we will see.

Im hoping to get a game with the list as is over the weekend, so ill def put some feedback up. I may put a post in the 40k modeling forums as well if your interested, currently converting all the bikes to choppers (the command squad is already done). My painting skills are terribad (half blind does that to ya) but the conversions so far i am happy with.

[Toddrick]

yeah man look forward to hearing about it and would also like to read up on how you did your conversion since im terrible at doing them but wouldn't mind at least having khan on a chopper!

[mr_draken]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?41637-Drakens-Biker-Marines-of-Khan!-%28pic-heavyish%29&p=394550#post394550

threads up for a look, the conversion i do is really simple, cut the forks, get a piece of plastic piping about the right thickness, cut it to the length your comfortable with, tidy it and the joining bits up, and glue, can take a while to get sitting right, i usually glue to the bike body first, then line up with the wheel and glue to it and the base at the same time.