Back Field Synapse - Warriors vs Zoanthropes

[Halollet]

I always scratched my head that people are dumping on warriors calling them fragile while then taking zoans instead. So I did a little math and here's what I found out

Bolters
vs Zoans
4 wounds inflicted is 12 wounds dealt is 24 hits which is 36 shots
vs Warriors
9 wounds inflicted is 18 wounds dealt is 36 hits which is 54 shots

Warriors hold up a lot better when it comes to small arms fire, having more then double the wounds actually makes them more durable, imagine that!

Krak Missiles
vs Zoans
2 wounds inflicted is 6 wounds dealt which is 7.2 hits is 10.8 shots
vs Warriors (4+ cover)
3 wounds inflicted is 6 wounds dealt which is 7.2 hits is 10.8 shots
vs Warriors (5+ cover)
3 wounds inflicted is 4.5 wounds dealt which is 5.4 hits is 8.1 shots

Yes, the dreaded krak missile! So warriors take the exact same amount of shots to take down when in ruins. Huh.... So who doesn't play a game of 40k with a single piece of ruins in their deployment zone? Seriously, anybody?

!!!Nova Charged Heavy Burst Cannon that ignores cover and hits on a 2+!!!
vs Zoans
4 wounds inflicted is 12 wounds dealt is 14.4 hits which is 17.28 shots
vs Warriors
9 wounds inflicted is 9 wounds dealt is 10.8 hits which is 12.96 shots

So here's a big evil gun and yes, the Zoans hold up better. Yes, Tau is able to use 300+ points to decimate 100 points. Still, unless the riptide rolls above average it still has to use its secondary to finish off the brood.

Now against this, and evening the points a bit, this is where I suggest taking a Broodlord to pin those pathfinders and remove markerlights from play. So let's roll that again

Nova Charged Heavy Burst Cannon
vs Zoans
4 wounds inflicted is 12 wounds dealt is 14.4 hits which is 28.8 shots
vs Warriors (4+ cover)
9 wounds inflicted is 18 wounds dealt is 21.6 hits which is 43.2 shots

Well look at that.... Warriors are still more durable.

But, I'll be humble, my 40k knowledge isn't what it used to be, but I can't come up with a gun in my head that makes 4 wounds better then 9.


Also, warriors have a 36" gun which means that can actually do something from your table edge. And are scoring. And are better in assault should it come to that.

[Ang56]

I think they are both fine, and have their own places in the list. Been having warriors do pretty well this codex. I've just been using them as cheap synapse with decent shooting. They are durable enough.

I get ppl complaining about them though. You can also run into a trap with warriors, they can get pretty pricey when you start adding things to them and they really don't last long if your opponent decides they want them dead. Shrouding them helps a ton, but I also haven't been finding losing synapse to be as traumatic. I retain control of my units movement in most cases and just shuffle them over to a different synapse node.

[Learn2Eel]

The only truly viable use of Warriors (i.e. in the face of Taudar, Daemons, etc) is as a cheap backfield Synapse unit that can hide and tank a lot of Strength 7 or lower shooting. Give them a venom cannon or a barbed strangler and just sit tight. They can hide on an objective and are fully self sufficient with no worrying about Instinctive Behaviour.

However, you are forgetting a few points in favour of Zoanthropes.
1) They are a unit of psykers, meaning they can freely take Dominion to get a sometimes crucial 18" Synapse range.
2) They are more dangerous at range when opponents start closing in and are thus a harder proposition to deal with.
3) The minimum unit size for Zoanthropes is 1, opposed to Warriors' 3. This means the cheapest Synapse unit in the book is a lone Zoanthrope that can hide, cast Dominion and zap a tank/infantry squad that gets close.
4) Wraithknights don't care about Toughness 4 Wounds 3, they do care about a 3+ invulnerable save though. You can safely bank on Wraithknights heading for your backfield Synapse, and Zoanthropes at least can survive for a turn or two extra.

There boons to both that need to be considered beyond just durability.

[Gleipnir]

Personally I like a Tervigon if you need a backfield Synapse w/ scoring

less susceptible to ID than Tyranid Warriors and less susceptible to small arms fire than a Zoanthrope

Gains the same extra psychic power the Zoanthrope gets, access to artifacts and biomorphs and if yer lucky enough to generate enough termagants to offset its cost and grab backfield objectives within 12-18" of it can hold up well if you can keep it out of the sightlines of heavy hitting weapons.

considering you are looking to compare between the Zoan and the Warriors though I'd go with Warriors if you need the backfield scoring Troops and the Zoanthrope if you don't.

[carny]

Well the warrior also have more going on for it.
1) it is a troop choice- meaning that it does not compete with venomtropes, hive guard (whose "ignore cover" gun I think is underrated),Zoans and lictors (presuming the vanguard dateslate) Also it means that the warrior scores, that can occassioanlly be usefull.
2)While the warriors default weapons (devourer/deathspitter are limited to 18', they can reach 36' with a bio-cannon. A Zoan is limited to 18'/24' and while the psychic power is a better gun, occasionally it will fail. Also barbed strangler might pin your opponent.
3)warriors have melee capability - this might not be important, but a brood of Zoans will fold like tissue paper in assault - Warriors with 3 attacks and 3 wounds are not going to fold to any assault they face.
4)The last argument in favor of warrior: They are gorgeous new plastic models and not finecast :)
5) actually the real fifth argument is that you can have more than 3 warriors in a brood. This might not be optimal 85% of the time, but it a 4th warrior will increase your durability.

Personally I don't see them as either/or. You can have both and imagine that 3 warriors with a bio-cannon will do well as rear-guard. Zoans could be dispersed through out the swarm acting as secondary synapse and psychic support for relatively few points, but if you also want some venomtropes and a hi

[chicop76]

I rather have warriors in the back field over Zonathropes. However for advancing and being able to cut marines to pieces I like my Zonathropes in the mid field or up front.

At this point I pretend there is no cover save instead of working cover save into your numbers.

[Anggul]

The reason I choose Zoanthropes over Warriors is that they can actually do something. Warriors just don't usually contribute much to the battle other than the occasional pot shot, whereas Warp Blast is always handy and you get another psychic power which is very helpful.

[OlDirtyCosta]

The reason I choose Zoanthropes over Warriors is that they can actually do something. Warriors just don't usually contribute much to the battle other than the occasional pot shot, whereas Warp Blast is always handy and you get another psychic power which is very helpful.

I agree they both have they ups and downs.... but do not underestimate the power to take an objective at the end of the game.

[DarkLink]

I found Warriors to be really good, when you could drop them behind enemy lines with a bunch of Str 5 shooting. Now, they're too slow to be offensively effective.

[Tynskel]

I found Warriors to be really good, when you could drop them behind enemy lines with a bunch of Str 5 shooting. Now, they're too slow to be offensively effective.

I still don't get this whole 'too slow' bit. Give them fleet. They aren't slow anymore. The range on the guns is short, so you should be running every turn, anyhow...

[Maelstorm]

I believe (as a new Hive Fleet owner) this points to the best part of the new Tyranid codex - there is no single answer; no push-button, auto-include, spammable, quick-fix, crutch, gotta' have 3 of them units in the entire codex. I'm looking forward to figuring out which model mix works for my play style and reading about what works for others.

The best part? The band wagon jumpers will quickly leap to the next codex when this one requires thinking, planning and strategy to make it work.

[DarkLink]

I still don't get this whole 'too slow' bit. Give them fleet. They aren't slow anymore. The range on the guns is short, so you should be running every turn, anyhow...

Fleet or not, all infantry is pretty slow. It takes several turns to get into position, during which your opponent can shoot you up, and you're not particularly impressive in shooting or assault to warrant that level of difficulty. The pod let you drop exactly where you could immediately apply pressure, though, which made them infinitely more useful.

[chicop76]

Fleet or not, all infantry is pretty slow. It takes several turns to get into position, during which your opponent can shoot you up, and you're not particularly impressive in shooting or assault to warrant that level of difficulty. The pod let you drop exactly where you could immediately apply pressure, though, which made them infinitely more useful.

I never liked deepmstriking Zonathropes though. It doesn't take long to get within range of warp blast and it really helps to keep them with your gaunts once your Tervigons start blowing up.

Although deepmstriking strikes always seemed not a bad ideal. I done so with the Trygon and it's been a real help.

[Anggul]

I never liked deepmstriking Zonathropes though. It doesn't take long to get within range of warp blast and it really helps to keep them with your gaunts once your Tervigons start blowing up.

Although deepmstriking strikes always seemed not a bad ideal. I done so with the Trygon and it's been a real help.

I think he was talking about Warriors.

[chicop76]

I think he was talking about Warriors.

Oh, lol. I would deep strike warriors too. Nowadays I think I would keep them back field to babysit Biovores.