Would you/do you buy miniatures without knowing their rules?

[YorkNecromancer]

Simple enough. GW have announced their new policy of releasing models without rules, the better to 'trick' us into buying a model that looks great, only to find we invested a small fortune in something that just sucks on the battlefield.

Oh hey there Pyrovore. What's that? You've not been used on the battlefield by anyone who knew what they were doing since 2008? And everyone else felt betrayed that they spent a huge amount of money on you, only to discover you are the worst unit ever in the history of any wargame? You're only ever used to proxy Biovores? Man.

Yeah, I feel your pain. 'Cause you're a pretty great model, but if I see someone field you as yourself, I know they're either stupid, insane or a newbie. Possibly all three.

Oh hey there, Mandrakes. What's that? You're still proxying as Incubi? Oh, you're proxying as Harlequins now? Because you're a great model, but have utterly underpowered rules and serve no useful purpose when compared to the significantly better choices available in the rest of the Codex?

Have you met Pyrovore? You two should talk.

So: where do you stand on the idea of spending a large amount of money on a new model? Do the rules matter to you, or do are you just about the aesthetics?

For me, I'll buy any model I like... but if the rules are bad, I will convert the **** out of it to make it something actually useful on the battlefield.

[Chris Copeland]

All of my armies are built out of models that I want to paint. I have several fully painted armies and it is because I keep to the rule of sticking to stuff I find visually interesting. I play with a very groovy/low key/non-tourney (mostly) playing crowd so this approach works well for me. Cope

[Mr Mystery]

Meh.

I have an uncanny knack of building really hard armies without setting out to do so. This started with my old Dark Elves, put together around 2002/2003. The interwebs maintained the army was The suxxorS, so I went against the grain. Black Dragon, Manticore, 30 RXBs, 4 Chariots, and 2 Hydras. And that army turned out to be absolutely rock hard. Then.....then came the next book, when everything got Hatred and Hydras became filth. That army became absolutely stonkingly hard. Not to say it never lost, but I won the vast majority of my games.

Likewise my old Saim Hann army. Craftworld Eldar edition. Was also shockingly hard, despite what the interwebs maintained.

Net result for me? Ignore the internet. Most of the time advice is contradictory, and based entirely on a given person's local 'meta', which you know, being local, is barely meta in the first place.

I now buy the models I like. Any army can win any game, if you're willing to sit down and give it a good think.

Also, I had a Pyrovore in my old Nid army. And I loved him. He was surprisingly ace. Why?

1. EVERYONE thought it was rubbish, and wouldn't bother shooting it.
2. I'd do my best to get it to charge a high value, equal initiative enemy unit.
3. Let them pull all it's arms and legs off.
4. Wet myself with laughter as it wee'd acid blood all over the unit, and if given a powerfisting, then exploded in their face.

Very, very rarely did not pull it's points weight, and most often punched above them by a considerable margin.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Yep! I like collecting and painting, and narrative games. I don't mind so much whether something is Double Hard or not.

[Pssyche]

If I don't like the looks of a model then I won't buy it whatever it's rules are.

Case in point.
I've got 18K of painted and based Eldar, plus around 2K of Harlequins and about 4K of unpainted Work-in-Progress Eldar.

Yet, I still do not own a Fire Prism.
I can not abide the model, neither old nor new.
I don't own any Shining Spears for the same reason.
I bought a job lot of Eldar, some six years ago that included three Shining Spears and I gave them away.
I've no interest in owning a model I don't like.

Conversely, my favourite models that I own are the Forge World Shadow Spectres, Exarch and Phoenix Lord
I think they are wonderful yet rarely field them unless I'm making up points for an Apocalypse Battle.

[Mr Mystery]

I really like the Fire Prism!

[Psychosplodge]

oh look another poll...

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Now to the question at hand.

It's all about the looks. I like plasma cannon devatators, hence I have twelve, they look awesome. The fact its a scary weapon is a bonus.
I have a box of harliquins. I have never played eldar.
I will never buy centurions or dreadknights because they look ridiculous.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I only buy models purely for the way they look, if I dont like the way they look I will not buy them. I do not care about the rules whatsoever as I'm not a fan of most wargame rules in general.

[Houghten]

Short answer: yes.

(Edit: since the poll and the title are phrased such that "yes" to one means "no" to the other, I'll clarify that: yes, I buy models without rules.)

Long answer: I'll quite happily buy a model and then completely invalidate its WYSIWYG-ness, such as putting bright lances on a Wraithknight's shoulders or giving a Lychguard a warscythe and dispersion shield. I've also expanded my High Elf army beyond the Island of Blood despite the army book being one of those perpetual "eh, maybe next month" purchases, just because I liked the new plastics (same reason I didn't just trade away the IoB elves for more ratmen). Plus the stuff like Reaper and Studio McVey that I have no intention of ever shoehorning into a game, just building and painting.

ETA:

It's all about the looks. I like plasma cannon devatators, hence I have twelve, they look awesome. The fact its a scary weapon is a bonus.
This too, although I only have ten. Hell, I built the Fourth Company army list around them, and then made up a backstory about it, and then kit-bashed a Space Marine-driven Leman Russ Executioner with more plasma cannon than any Leman Russ can legally take (but really, why would I have anything else as the hull weapon?) because it was in the story.

Two months later, Forge World brought out the Predator Executioner and I bit my paintbrush in half.

[Wolfshade]

rule of cool.

Also, why is the option
I'm not too fussed either way, but this new strategy seems kind of underhanded.
and no option of
I'm not too fussed either way.

After all they are a miniatures company.

[Ian Mulcahy]

I buy what I think looks cool, and then build armies that I think will be fun to field. My first army was Sisters of Battle (not Witchhunters). I had a blast playing, and could hold my own against everyone in my group. If I didn't win, I made my opponent work for it. Well, except for one game where I made a deployment mistake and got gunned down by my opponent's IG.
I play to have fun, put cool models on the table, and hopefully win. Rules are good, but the Rule of Cool is more important.

[Anggul]

I wouldn't call it underhanded. Anyone who doesn't care gets the model early. Win for them. If someone cares about the rules to the extent that they won't buy it if they aren't good, they're going to wait, not just go ahead and buy it in the hopes that the rules are good.

I can totally understand someone feeling that way. I'm not a 'collector' and find the collector mindset rather strange. If I were buying a model just to put it on the shelf and look at it occasionally, I could just look at it on the internet or look at someone else's. I don't see how it makes any difference whether I actually own it or not if I'm not doing anything with it. It's always seemed to me like some kind of twisted materialism. I want to be able to actually do something with that model, not just have it sit there. That something doesn't necessarily have to be playing the game, it might be the enjoyment of modelling and painting it, but it has to be something. That's just me though, I don't have that collector mindset of 'I own it, it is my possession, that alone satisfies me'. It's not just with wargames, I find the entire idea of just collecting something with no actual use very odd. Like stamps to use a well-known example. They're stamps, they sit in a book not doing anything and the person owns them purely for the sake of owning them. They could just look at pictures of them and it would be functionally exactly the same. Some people enjoy it for whatever reason that I can't personally comprehend, so I'm not going to call them stupid for it, I just don't get it myself, not to say others shouldn't.

Wargaming is different in that a person might really enjoy building, converting and painting though, which is different from collecting, say, figurines, stamps or coins where you buy them and that's that, they're already done, you don't actually do anything with them. I can totally understand why someone might buy a model because they want to try their hand at building, modelling and painting it in a cool way, that's an activity and I get that. Some people have huge numbers of models and have never played a game, they enjoy modelling and painting. They're getting just as much enjoyment, but out of that rather than creating battles.

I will, of course, only buy a model that I like. I'm not going to knowingly spend out for models that are just going to sit in a box or on a shelf doing nothing though, I want to actually use them at some point, even if I don't get around to doing so for a while because I have a backlog, as long as I know I'm going to use them at some point and I like them, I'll get them. This isn't because I only use the most powerful units. I just don't want to put time and effort into a model, then just have to take it off the table and put it back in the case because it sucks and died due to bad rules. If I like a unit for its cool backstory and model, I want to have it do those cool things in an awesome fashion in the game. That's the point in the game after all, to create the battles of that setting. If the model isn't going to do that, I'm probably not going to use it, so I'm not likely to bother buying, building and painting it. I do enjoy modelling and painting, but not to the extent that I'll buy a model purely for that purpose.

Also I hate mould lines. The less of them I have to remove in my lifetime, the better.

[jd2x.pacman]

I will buy for either, with the priority on looks. I tend to stick to my armies, but I am considering getting a Riptide R'Varna simply because I think it is a completely awesome model.

[mysterex]

I'll only buy a unit that has both good rules and that I like the look of. Each edition and codex edition release units that had been good tend to become rubbish. I've got a lot of stuff that I don't play now entirely due to the current rules. (like 19 Kasrkin with hellguns), that I liked the look of but aren't prepared to bring to the table.

As I have a limited. amout I can spent I want to make sure I get value out of it.

[jonsgot]

I don't own centurions, enough said.

[SaveModifier]

I buy a lot of models with no intention of using them in games, loads of companies sell miniatures for their own sake

[Denzark]

The last model I brought without rules was a copplestone castings santa with foxy elf girl. There will be hand swops so santa has a BFO bolter and the elf gets a daeonette claw, but hey...

[Al Shut]

I voted that I buy mostly for rules, but probably it's more like 50% rules, 50% looks. Not sure if that means I'm not fussed.

That said I never bought a model just to collect it so I'll never, ever buy a new modell without knowing it's rules first. The same way I would never buy a model without knowing what it looks like.

[Eldar_Atog]

Yeah, I pre-ordered a bunch of Dark Eldar stuff before the rules came out. For the most part, I did ok.. but the Mandrakes burned me hard. I bought 2 boxes of them. Fortunately, I was able to re-purpose them as a squad of cultists.

I can't say that I wouldn't pre-order anything again but it won't be a big kit.

[Gingerpanda]

There are rules for the miniatures I buy WTF man! ;)

In all the years of playing GW table top games I've always picked the miniatures I liked, which is why I guess these days I collect and paint more than I play.

[xsquidz]

I will buy for either reason. I am competitive player that also plays for fun sometimes. I am getting a Haruspex because of the looks, not the rules so I will use it fun games. Units that I think look dumb but have amazing rules I am likely to get more of however for tournament play, like Eldar Wave serpents-they don't look bad imo, just very average.

[Mike Lawler]

I think this would mostly upset people who are playing WAAC. I play to have fun. I don't think anyone has ever fielded a unit of Grots (as an example) with the mindset that they would win games.. but some of my more entertaining memories are of implausible situations where the little blighters have killed Terminators or somehow weathered a round of shooting that should have laid low Meganobs. To be honest, if GW focused more on putting out beautiful models and less on releasing "zomg 'Ardboyz!!!1!!" type units, they would be in a better place.

[Templar46_2]

how is this "tricking us" into doing anything? The rules are still coming. you seriously can't wait another two weeks to see if hammerers or whatever are going to be "good enough rules-wise". i mean... i tend to impulse buy too, but dude... control yourself. this isn't "underhanded"... *boggle*

yeah i agree with "rule of cool". i'm not using something in a game unless it looks awesome. the rules are a framework to give me an excuse to do something with my collection of models. these aren't just gaming tokens. if rules were all that mattered, just paint some numbers on a few blocks of wood and knock yourself out.

[Ghostofman]

If GWs prices were lower, I'd be likely to buy stuff for cool over rules. But with their current price levels, I'm not buying anything until I know it'll be useful to me in-game.

[Billy_Mx]

lol @ all the Pyrovore bashing. He actually he kicked as when there USED to be Mycetic Spores...

[Christopher Szynkowski]

I buy models because I like the look of models, the rules aren't that important.

My issue with this poll, is that it presumes that there is an effort to 'Trick' the consumer, that the GW execs are sitting around in a board room looking like a cross between the Legion of Doom and a mob of Scrooge clones. The company wants to sell models, there is no profit in them writing 'bad' rules for any models.

When it does happen, it's usually because of the meta that the rulebook designer doesn't take into account when their work goes to print. They can't and don't see the larger impact that the game, in the hands of powergamers, has on their work because they (somewhat naively) assume that there is reason and restraint behind our actions as gamers. Likewise, they often don't see the full impact that their work will have on the overall meta in a similar environment. All they can really hope to do is try to make the book internally balanced and play well against what they come to expect from an 'average' game of 40k or fantasy.

[pchappel]

I've bought some things that will likely NEVER see the table... Kilted Werewolves from Infinity are the ones that come to mind immediately... For 40K? If there are no rules, I MAY buy one for the shelf, but not likely...

[Eldar_Atog]

I think this would mostly upset people who are playing WAAC.

I would disagree. The WAAC player is probably not going to order a model without rules. Since the rules are the most important thing to them, they aren't going to buy a model until they know if it's useful or not.

[Mr Mystery]

It also depends on the unit.

Hammerers. Warhammer players know what Hammerers do, and what they are (sodding difficult to shift, and more than capable of dishing out a kicking, two properties you don't often see in the same unit)

Now, if it's a brand new, never been in the game before unit? Guess that's different in the run of things. Me, still happy to buy if it looks awesome. Others, mileage may vary.

But let's look at what has occurred this month.... Hammerers, rules technically unknown, but established from multiple generations of the game. Like wise the Dragonslayer. New character is new. But hey, there's his rules right there in WD! And he's pretty tough!

Kind of a storm in a teacup for now, based on that.

[YorkNecromancer]

lol @ all the Pyrovore bashing. He actually he kicked as when there USED to be Mycetic Spores...

No, he really never did. He has always, always sucked. I'd go into why, but the 1D4chan article neatly sums up his problem:


Pyrovores are a Tyranid unit widely considered to be the worst unit in all of Warhammer 40k, especially now that Chaos you-know-whats got buffed. They are representative of Robin Cruddace's awful, awful Tyranids codex, in which at least half of the units have absolutely no idea what they're supposed to be doing or are so abysmally awful at what they are supposed to be doing that no one ever takes them--and Pyrovores are the worst of the worst.

6th edition codex is out. Pyrovores are EVEN WORSE! (how's that even possible?). At least before their Acid Blood auto-wounded. Now it's S5.

Pyrovores are worse than Old One Eye, a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX special character in a codex that hates DISTRACTION CARNIFEXES, who is renowned for costing MORE than a Land Raider and dying to a stiff breeze... but at least he has a general idea of what the **** he's supposed to be doing and would be tolerable if he was cheaper.

Pyrovores are worse than Chaos Sp... uh, that one Chaos unit that was terrible in 5th ed... but they got a proper Phil Kelly-granted buff in the newest Chaos Space Marine codex, and before that they could occasionally win assaults in large area terrain.

Pyrovores are worse than Fire Warriors in melee, who are unceremoniously chopped up in seconds... but at least that's funny, things have gone wrong when squads assault Firewarriors, they can do that "Overwatch + Markerlights + other squads nearby can Overwatch for them + Markerlights", and can kill Land Raiders in melee with Haywire Grenades.

Pyrovores are so bad that fluff writers and writefags try to forget that they even exist. In fact they appear only in one BL book (The Last Ditch) and they are as terrible there as on tabletop (like accidentally blowing apart a hive Tyrant and his guards and getting mocked for being terrible in universe). Which we choose to take as further proof of Sandy Mitchell's awesomeness by taking the now memetic godawfulness of the Pyrovore and making it canon.

Pyrovores are so terrible that why they are even a thing remains a point of debate because holy **** who in their right mind would think that this... this... thing... was a good idea? It serves no conceivable purpose and there are much better platforms for a flamethrower in the Tyranid bestiary than the body of an indirect fire mortar carrier never intended to even get in visible ****ing range of the god damn enemy. I mean ****, there's even one in the same mother****ing Codex, all you'd need to do for the Tyrannofex is light its acid spray on fire and then BAM! You have a flamer on a non-****ty platform. Or Warriors or something, because they're basically crapsack Terminators and Terminators get a Heavy Flamer! Or just anything!

The biggest problem comes down to the fact they're in the Elites slot, which is easily the most jam-packed slot in Tyranids. They're competing with Hive Guard (tied with the Eldar Wave Serpent for best anti-transport unit in the game, which is a big deal for Tyranids), Zoanthropes (incredibly powerful psykers that can throw down an ABSURD amount of mental dakka each turn), Venomthropes (an excellent support unit that provides mobile cover, defensive grenades, and hilarious 2+ Poisoned attacks), Ymgarl Genestealers (basically the only unit in the game that can assault the turn they appear), the Doom of Malan'tai (an incredibly cheesy unit powered by the tears of Eldar players) (Not in the codex anymore, damnit GW, damnit Cruddace!), Deathleaper (a much-maligned unit that at least gives a nifty -1 Ld to an enemy character) (Now a HQ but Pyrovores still suck), and Lictors (a unit that... okay, Lictors are pretty awful too, but at least they have an idea what the hell they're supposed to be doing).

Additionally, they have one of the most schizophrenic loadouts in the game. Their attacks ignore all armor saves, which would be invaluable in 6th edition... except the rest of their stats make them absolutely awful in close combat, including I1, WS3, and only one attack. They're too slow to keep up with an assault-based army (and largely pointless there anyway), and in a shooting army they compete with Hive Guard (which are basically the only way 'Nids can take down light vehicles efficiently). Their Flamespurt ability is AP 4, meaning you can't take out MEQ with it. They can explode, which could see them used as a suicide unit... except that affects your (pitifully weak, vulnerable to AoE explosions) units as well. Plus it's only when Instant Death is inflicted, which means melta or plasma... but it dies much easier to massed bolter shots. On top of that, good luck just getting the damn thing in close enough to actually have it affected. Not to mention that wasting an extremely valuable Elite slot on an (expensive for) suicide unit is just stupid.

So, all in all, the worst ****ing unit the game. Completely pointless, no idea where it wants to be, competes with good units (units that are basically compulsory if you want Tyranids to win). The other thing is that it's a new unit. It's not a derped unit from a previous edition, it's one added in this one. And it's terrible.


My issue with this poll, is that it presumes that there is an effort to 'Trick' the consumer, that the GW execs are sitting around in a board room looking like a cross between the Legion of Doom and a mob of Scrooge clones.

Does it bollocks.

What it does, is it tries to provide for as many opinions as possible, because every time I've posted a poll in the past, people go OMG MAH OPINON CANNOT BE EXPRESSED BY THE LACK OF OPTIONS YOU HAVE INCLUDED! WHHHHHYYYY?!"

Well, maybe not that emotionally, but you get my point. I've even made this one multiple choice so that you can vote in different ways to reflect a broad opinion.

And despite my efforts, I've still got Psychosplodge flipping a bloody table because he literally hates the very idea of a poll because he's seen too many recently.

I can't win, I just can't.

...

I like polls. They force you to think, and provide a useful starting point to quantify an opinion.


...

*sigh*

:(

[Mr Mystery]

Not true.

You wasted one on a snarky option....

[Deadlift]

I buy and paint what I like the look of. Simple as that, fluff plays a part too. I like to be able to "connect" with my models too.

[Maelstorm]

I really want to use Necron Flayed Ones. At $50 for 5 models (Finecast crap) they cost as much as any premier unit from any other Codex. But on the field they have never made back even a small percentage of their point cost - except as Codex Space Marine priced fire magnets - They don't last long enough o even do a good job at dying...

[Orange]

Only buy models for the rules. I am far from a WAAC player, I just know how I want to play and. Uh the models that allow me to do so.

[Hellfire]

I buy stuff for looks, but I would greatly appreciate the army book at the beginning of a release rather than the end. I want my dwarf book damnit.

[deinol]

I must have missed something. Did they start releasing models without rules? Or are you talking people pre-ordering a ton of stuff because they can't wait a week to read the codex first?

I mean, I guess with the new weekly schedule there are a few dwarves released without updated rules, and things may have a ~2 week window where we are waiting for rules. But if it is such a big deal, wait for your codex and build a few paper lists before you buy the models.

[Psychosplodge]

And despite my efforts, I've still got Psychosplodge flipping a bloody table because he literally hates the very idea of a poll because he's seen too many recently.

I can't win, I just can't.

...

I like polls. They force you to think, and provide a useful starting point to quantify an opinion.


...

*sigh*

:(

To be fair its a more sensible poll than the others recently popping up.
And I did answer it once I'd had my rant :D

[eldargal]

I'm not fussed honestly, especially for Eldar I'm just happy to have new units after twenty years of almost-stasis. Which isn't to say I don't want to see each unit have good rules and a place on the battlefield* but knowing the rules isn't a big deal


*BAAAANSHEEES! OH GOD BANSHEEEEEES!

[-Tom-]

I'm not fussed honestly, especially for Eldar I'm just happy to have new units after twenty years of almost-stasis. Which isn't to say I don't want to see each unit have good rules and a place on the battlefield* but knowing the rules isn't a big deal


*BAAAANSHEEES! OH GOD BANSHEEEEEES!

This.

I've only got back into the hobby in the last year, so I've come at it with a flying start, re-vamping the idea of building a real 'craftworld' force. Sure, I'll play some games here and there - apparently I'm even taking part in a tournament in a couple of weeks when back on dry land (not entirely sure how I agreed to that) - so it's good to have some things that are playable, and to some extent I have to bear in mind to make purchases around building up a 'core' of playable things rather than just going for what looks cool... because, y'know, it's going to be a long process to build up what I want to.

I tend to have a look at any new releases of anything that might be relevant to have parts for kit bashes (like dark elves might have had some bits to build some cool Harlequin models).

I fancy the idea of seeing if I can add some sort of giant Warp-Spider like shell to the back of a phantom titan to make a new and exotic type of Eldar Titan with some homebrew rules. Or, making a couple of Storm Serpents by converting FW kits. Now, those are never going to allowed in competitive play, but as long as the rules are reasonable it could be something cool to try to use in a friendly game of Apocalypse. Maybe they're bad examples because it's not like they fit the bill of being "GW models that turn out to have sucky rules". Perhaps Banshees are a better example of that, but my Craftworld host would feel like it was missing something if it didn't have them in, even if they never/rarely get used in a game I'm still going to enjoy modelling / painting them.

Rules will always change between editions anyway. Something that is great/sucky in one edition can suddenly become a beast/worthless in the next. So, it's not like you can guarantee that the model that you've bought that has great rules is always going to have great rules.

[Christopher Szynkowski]

Sorry for getting your feathers ruffled YorkNecromancer, but when you pair the poll with an opening line about how GW is trying to 'Trick you into buying models with terrible rules' it's hard to view this as a valid starting point for a discussion instead of a grand invite to start bashing GW from the get go.

It does get people talking and some discussion does come out of it, but it also acts as a clarion call for the old arguments and whining to come to the surface from individuals who for what ever reason have decided the only explanation for GW's actions or the actions of their rules writers is nefarious scheming.

[Power Klawz]

Yes, GW will reap a bitter harvest of nerd tears once it is revealed that Hammerers are toughness 2 now, and only hit on 6s, and even then they hit themselves due to the new Dwarf universal special rule: And They Shall All Be Retarded.

[Azrell]

How about someone makes a real poll with answers that don't have all the passive aggressive subtext.

[Psychosplodge]

How about someone makes a real poll with answers that don't have all the passive aggressive subtext.

Here... (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?40880-What-do-you-think-of)

[Ezaviel]

I own a bunch of models that I have never used / never plan to use. I just bought them to paint, or because it's cool.

For example, I bought a Nephilim and a Dark Talon. Not very good flyers, but the models look cool. Same with Deathwing Knights. My Dark Angels have like, 7 Librarians, 6 Chaplains and 5 Captains. Can't use them all at once, but I like the models.

[Gaius Castus]

Total non issue. I buy what I like. Which I use may be influenced by rules, but not my buying habits.

[bluepowerade]

I buy for cool. I haven't come across anything really cool that I couldn't make work in a game.

[Madmagos]

they tried this a long time ago when they released the original necrons to see if ****ty models with great rules would sell. They sold...

[AngelsofDeath]

I think this is the old question " What comes first the Chicken or the Egg?" I am a firm believer that without the rules the models are just models. I enjoy painting and developing an army to play with, but I make sure the army has character and I will enjoy playing it. Like others have stated I do not power game and just playing and being a part of a social group and activity matters more to me. But I do feel this models first and Codex/rules later is kind of lame.

[The Shadow King]

I buy models if I like the rules only and that's why I bought my large unit of Mandrakes. Mandrakes are great, they absorb loads of firepower and tie up annoying units for several turns usually. I really don't understand why people don't like them on the internet, but maybe it's to do with all these weird spammy DE lists I see.

[n-j-x]

I bought Skullcrushers despite the fact I wasn't completely sold on the models and then they changed the rules like 2 weeks later. I Prefer the converting / painting side of the hobby but I would only buy a modle if it was in anyway useful to me in a game.

[jonsgot]

Once yes. Now I have too many models I never use.

[Wolfshade]

Once yes. Now I have too many models I never use.

Isn't that the point?

I am aiming for a full chapter, I am just under 1/3rd the way...(excluding vehicluar support, which was just going to be 3x every different option but now I can double FOC it might just have to be 6, plus additionals for troop transports, one of the companies will be full mech, another drop pods woo).

[Al Shut]

I am aiming for a full chapter,

So in your case the question would be, would you buy models without knowing how and where they fit into chapter organisation?

[Wolfshade]

So in your case the question would be, would you buy models without knowing how and where they fit into chapter organisation?

I know where they fit, though my first company is going to be too large as it will be terminators and sternguard/vanguard vets also, the pressing question is I buy models not knowing where I can store them...

[Mr Mystery]

And a bit more farting on the Weetabix of the conspiracy theory.....

New toys out for Dwarfs this Saturday. Gyrocopter - Existent unit, we know roughly what to expect. Engineer Character - Rules in WD. Gyrobomber - Rules in WD. Ironbreakers - Existent unit, we know roughly what to expect.

Concerns of this thread?

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4697973914207188&w=121&h=145&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7

[Wolfshade]

The real question is how easy is it to convert gyros to koptaz!

[Mr Mystery]

Ded easy.

Yoo just need enuff nailz and know-wots!

[Wolfshade]

+ Red Paint, coz theyz goz fasta!

[Mr Mystery]

Yer. Loads red.

And make it more killy.

And replace da bommz wiv upside down Stormboyz for a laff.

[Wolfshade]

That would be awesome, "we saw the BA's do it with their dreadnoughts, so we can do it with the boyz"

[Mr Mystery]

Yup!

[jonsgot]

Isn't that the point?

Having spent £££s or $$$s and 100s of hours painting little men to have them sit in a box, I hope that's not the point. Maybe if I had space to leave them out on display the answer would be different. I've got almost 500 space marines(only 450 are painted) I can't see the point in having another 500? It takes me half a day to unpack them as it is.:confused:

[Wolfshade]

I suppose it all depends how you play. I am a bit of a collector, so have got a large collection of 1 army. I play games fairl regularly but with different army compositions.

There isn't a right or wrong way to do it certainly. I have used my whole collection on three occasions in apopcalypse games, which is kinda fun, though trying to make sure you don't mess up who is in which squad is a bit of a bum. Also, finding an army case that does rows of 10 is a holy grail.

[deinol]

Isn't that the point?

I am aiming for a full chapter, I am just under 1/3rd the way...(excluding vehicluar support, which was just going to be 3x every different option but now I can double FOC it might just have to be 6, plus additionals for troop transports, one of the companies will be full mech, another drop pods woo).

And I thought I was mad for wanting a complete company.

[jonsgot]

finding an army case that does rows of 10 is a holy grail.

I also find the current cases to be limiting my desire to add more models to my collection.

KR cases are good for rows of 10, as long as your models aren't taller than space marines. I do wish gw would change their cases to two trays of 50 smaller compartments and a tray that fits terminator bases. The Kr tray just about fits in a gw case but not well. Repacking your model collection for each game is a pain.

[John Bower]

I don't buy 'without' the rules, I buy codex first, but that said, I don't buy 'to' the rules, I buy what I like in my army and hang whether it's any good. My army just needs to 'feel' right. Like my nids, I got them as a ready built army, lots of gribblies and a few other odds and ends, then I added a Carnifex, Mawloc and Zoanthropes, as well as a Whip/Bonesword armed Tyrant. They didn't do great back in 5th, and got killed in 6th, now in the new dex, they do just great for me. Played 3, won 2. Not bad for a 'nerfed' army. But that's against my own armies which are all similarly tooled, in that they are more narrative driven than power mad.

[Wildeybeast]

See, I'm both. If a unit has an awesome but the rules, suck, I won't buy it because i can't justify spending the money on something that won't see game time. But equally, I won't buy a model if it's rules are awesome but I don't like the look of it. I need to know both before I'm stumping any cash.

[Da Gargoyle]

Try this one on for size. I got burned the other way. Before the latest Ork Codex I scratch built (Sort of) a stack of Flash gitz, stealing bitz from Chaos marines and WHF Orks to produce a mob of 16 boys , 3 with big shootas that looked just snazzy. In accompaniment with them was a looted demolisher tank "wiv the extra bits da hummies seem to forget about". Then they changed the codex and the demolisher was gone and the Flash gitz cost 35 points per model with more dakka & shootier (which was the whole point), Range 24" max and either a 135 point character or......a Pain Boy ???? Yeah I can see how that works. So T 4, Ld 7 mob of 10 for 350 points plus whatever you spend on a character. I can see how they fit the profile of a heavy unit, not.

So they watch from the glass case as the boys and burnas come out for me to test my Eldar force combinations against.

Not happy - especially as they did again with the Avatar. This time I'll grant you not scratch built, but I agonised over the paint job, knowing that a copy of the GW model would be a pale imitation.

[deinol]

Try this one on for size. I got burned the other way. Before the latest Ork Codex I scratch built (Sort of) a stack of Flash gitz, stealing bitz from Chaos marines and WHF Orks to produce a mob of 16 boys , 3 with big shootas that looked just snazzy. In accompaniment with them was a looted demolisher tank "wiv the extra bits da hummies seem to forget about". Then they changed the codex and the demolisher was gone and the Flash gitz cost 35 points per model with more dakka & shootier (which was the whole point), Range 24" max and either a 135 point character or......a Pain Boy ???? Yeah I can see how that works. So T 4, Ld 7 mob of 10 for 350 points plus whatever you spend on a character. I can see how they fit the profile of a heavy unit, not.

So they watch from the glass case as the boys and burnas come out for me to test my Eldar force combinations against.

Not happy - especially as they did again with the Avatar. This time I'll grant you not scratch built, but I agonised over the paint job, knowing that a copy of the GW model would be a pale imitation.

What's wrong with the Avatar? Last time I played, I killed a Riptide in close combat with mine.